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    Wikihounding by Awshort

    [edit]

    user Awshort has been selectively invoking rules on the article for Taylor Lorenz. It has taken me some time to really see how it was happenening, but finally today wrote this post on the talk page with examples of how they have been selectively and hypocritically enforcing rules on me (a new user).

    Additionally, as I mentioned in that post, at one point they accused me of asking another editor for help...which doesn't make any sense? It seems like they were trying to imply to me that I had done something wrong, but I read over some rules first to make sure I was allowed to ask for help. I'm still pretty sure I am! If not...let me know?

    After my post today, Awshort started Wikihoundingme.

    Here are diffs where they follow me around to pages it doesn't appear they have had any interest in prior:

    °1

    ° 2

    °3 Now, I will of course acknowledge that on the third example, I did make a mistake. I thought I had only removed the text of the sentence, but looks as though I accidentally deleted part of the template too. I am unsure how that happened, so I will try to figure that out.

    Either way, Awshort's edit summary was not the language I hope experienced editors would use with newer editors like myself. I have mentioned multiple times in conversations that user Awshort is part of that I am a newer user, so they likely know that. ____

    I'll end by saying that this user's behavior is making me reconsider whether I want to devote any time to improving wikipedia. Truly. I've never made a report like this before, anywhere in my life, just to give you a sense of how frustrating and upsetting its been.

    I hope that this is the right forum for this. If not, my apologies, and please let me know where to redirect this to.

    Thanks for taking a look.Delectopierre (talk) 08:49, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Hello, Delectopierre, if you have had any discussions where you actually tried to talk out your differences with this editor, please provide a link to them. They might be on User talk pages or article talk pages or noticeboards. But it's typically advised that you communicate directly with an editor before opening a case on ANI or AN and don't rely on communication like edit summaries. Also, if you haven't, you need to notify any editors you mention about this discussion. They should be invited to participate here. Liz Read! Talk! 09:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There isn't. I don't feel comfortable discussing wikihounding with them. It is, after all, harassment. Delectopierre (talk) 09:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Although I did link to my post today where I confronted them with their behavior (except the wikihounding, as it hadn't happened yet). So that is an attempt to discuss the other part.
    But after I tried to discuss it, instead of responding to it, they started wikhounding me. Delectopierre (talk) 09:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe you should spend less energy “confronting” and more energy discussing and trying to learn from more experienced editors. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 13:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I try to learn when experienced editors engage with me in a helpful and respectful manner. Your comment does not fit that description.
    As an aside, I wasn't aware that non-admin, IP-only editors, who are not involved with the incidents I've reported would be participating in this discussion. Delectopierre (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've notified Awshort as it still hasn't been done. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 15:05, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, ActivelyDisinterested for doing so. User:Delectopierre, you should have notified User:Awshort yourself, there are messages instructing editors to do so all over this page including on the edit notice that you see any time you post a comment here. As I said, you are also advised to discuss disputes first with involved editors before posting on a noticeboard. ANI is where you come for urgent, intractable problems, it's the last place you go when other methods of dispute resolution haven't worked. This also looks like a standard content disagreement regarding Taylor Lorenz and the fact that Awshort reverted one of your edits. Liz Read! Talk! 21:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi @Liz as I noted above, I attempted to discuss their behavior on the article here, and their response was to wikihound me.
    As I said here I don't feel comfortable discussing what feels like and seems to be harrasment, directly with them, as it felt like intimidation to stop confronting them about what I see as bad behavior on the article. I was waiting for a reply to that statement before proceeding.
    Is there really no process that allows for an instance when an editor feels uncomfortable? Delectopierre (talk) 23:31, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I will also add that it appears as though this is not the first occurrence of this type of behavior, based on this comment by @Twillisjr. I don't, however, know any of the details. Delectopierre (talk) 23:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Re-reading your comment, @Liz:
    I think I’ve been unclear. The content dispute is a content dispute. You’re right about that.
    That is NOT why I posted here. I posted here because the content dispute spilled off that article and has now resulted in wikihounding. The wikihounding, specifically, is why I posted here. Delectopierre (talk) 05:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have closed the discussion with the rationale "Nothing more to do here. See WP:NOTFORUM and WP:HOUND." KOLANO12 3 13:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Could you please explain your rationale? I don’t follow. Delectopierre (talk) 17:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    First, thank you ActivelyDisinterested for the initial ping and Liz for the follow-up ping. The majority of this is over the Taylor Lorenz article as a whole, but there have been some policy issues sprinkled throughout. Delectopierre anyone can participate in noticeboard discussions whether involved or not, the 'IP-only editor' you referenced has more edits than both of us combined, and registration is not a requirement to edit Wikipedia nor participate in community noticeboards.
    they follow me around to pages it doesn't appear they have had any interest in prior - That isn't accurate since I post on the BLPN often, as well as using it to find articles I can help out on since I mainly focus on editing BLP's. I checked out the BLPN, noticed it was missing a discussion of interest from earlier in the day (Maynard James Keenan) and checked the edit history to see if it was removed for a reason. I saw the previous edit by DP had removed it as well as another discussion so I restored it. That wasn't me 'hounding' them, that was me fixing an error so other discussions could continue. I checked DP's edit history later to see if any similar edits had been made recently in case those needed fixed as well, saw the edit history for this edit with the summary critics don't accuse him of anti-semitism. he is an antisemite, and checked the edit which had been changed to calling the person that. The prior edit had the edit summary of adding back david icke qualifier, so I checked that one as well since I assumed it would be similar. When it was confirmed, I reverted since it seemed a BLP violation as well as WP:LIBEL. Since there was a talk page discussion regarding the prior one, I posted that I had removed it from another article as well, in case it went to a noticeboard both could be noted. It is worth noting that the edit I removed was originally added a few months prior by the same user. I think most editors would have acted in the similar manner regarding the edits and I stand behind them.
    I think Awshort's edit summary was not the language I hope experienced editors would use with newer editors like myself. is somewhat disingenuous when on their first full day of editing the Lorenz article after being registered since 2018 and mostly inactive they seemed to know enough policies to quote them in their edit summaries (WP:AVOIDVICTIM, WP:BLPBALANCE, WP:PUBLICFIGURE), their post that to BLPN referenced NPOV,  as well as learning other policies that were left on their talk page (CTOP by TheSandDoctor, NPOV by Little Professor).
    And it's hard to reply to the linked conversation above where it's implied I'm hounding in the closing comments with only one side of the story presented.
    Awshort (talk) 13:50, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Disruptive editing and pushing of his own "point of view" by User:Michael Bednarek

    [edit]

    A few months ago, I began to create some new pages about German folk songs, with my own translation under CC-license (that's still quite normal for a bachelor in history (ethnography), I guess). The above-mentioned user started to push his own remarks, reverting my edits (in spite of my authorship and my notices about my VRTS permission and CC), and ended here. At least, we (together with other participants) clearly established that I had had such a right and labelled some of my talk pages with my VRTS-ticket. Nevertheless, already the following page I'd started drew the attention of the aforementioned person. And that what he answers me (a poet-translator of folk songs and historian/ ethnographer):

    "I replaced (or omitted) archaic 'inwit', 'wont'; mark parts of the translation as dubious.", it was a substantial improvement of that article. My remarks on the shortcomings of its translation, which you subsequently labelled "poetic", still stand"

    . The first case that he marked as "dubious" was the gender of the German "Winter". In German, that word is masculine; however, I translated "Winter" as a feminine, and there are a plenty of samples from history when the Germans depicted "Winter" in their beliefs as a female deity or spirit (one might begin from here).

    I have neither wish, nor time to consider all such current and future "improvements" (a lot of time we've spent solving the question with the VRTS-ticket itself). I only hope to avoid such "waste" of time and strength in the future — either he isn't allowed to undo or change my poetic translations without my own consent and our consideration, or I stop my further like work. --Tamtam90 (talk) 15:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Tamtam90 I have posted an ANI notice on Michael's talk page. Please leave the notice on users' talk page when starting a discussion on ANI next time. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥(ContainThisEmber?) 15:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tamtam90:, anything on Wikipedia can be changed at any time by any editor. If it is not acceptable for you to have your translations modified by others, I suggest you not use them. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I translated and published my translations in Wikisource, as professional ethnographer. You don't explain the situation, nor the edits of your "protégé": merely reverted my (author's) edits without any consideration. Why not to "change" or "revert" all my edits in Wikisource as well? Please, try it. Or your admin flag doesn't admit such a trick?--Tamtam90 (talk) 16:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a needlessly hostile attitude to take.
    Of note, your status as a professional ethnographer does not mean your edits are above reproach. Other people may disagree with your translation, that's normal. You do not own edits here, so changes to your edits may happen. If that means you "stop <your> further work," then so be it. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:45, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Please try to stick to WP:CIVILITY and avoid casting ASPERSIONS, like baselessly implying that one user is an admin's "protégé". NewBorders (talk) 17:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Willing to give some grace to potential second language and things not coming through as intended @Tamtam90 but either he isn't allowed to undo or change my poetic translations without my own consent and our consideration, or I stop my further like work. falls afoul of edit warring, ownership. WP:EXPERT will be a helpful read, but right now you're closer to a block from mainspace than @Michael Bednarek is if you don't re-assess your conduct. Star Mississippi 17:58, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dear friends, I published all my translations before on an "outer" site, not here, though I granted with VRTS all rights to use them — without changing — to the community. That's, to say — publish and reproduce them, not to change in any possible manner and without any consideration. Maybe, I missed, but I haven't found such "conditions" (to change one's works in any possible manner) in these rules. --Tamtam90 (talk) 23:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. Now, if you want to remove your translations, probably nobody will replace them. But you have no more say in edits going forward than anyone else does. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you publish anything on Wikipedia, anyone can edit it, in anyway. Full stop. You explicitly cannot license contributions to be unalterable. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Original work is original work. Once accepted from an outer source, it cannot be changed and posed as original by anyone. The third column seems to be a healthy solution (for each acceptable derivative, as well) — it's a pity that the opponent doesn't follow his own decision and way anymore. --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I don't publish anything on Wikipedia, I republish here the texts added to Wikisource. That rule doesn't apply to any authentic translations previously published outside (one may create some derivatives, but not change with them the original). --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The button you hit was "Publish changes", so yes, you published it here under cc-by-sa 4.0. I really think you're setting yourself up for a minor disaster by not understanding what the license you're using means. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you post anything on Wikipedia, you have, in fact, published it. And once you have posted/published it here, anyone can change it in any way for any reason at any time. It can be changed, and saying it "cannot be changed" is a violation of Wikipedia's licensing. If you don't want your content edited by others, don't post it here. It's as simple as that. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    According to your claim, one may change here any text loaded on Wikisource, still labelling that as original (from the Bible or some historical chronicles, from a traveller's notes and so on). However, holding the authorship (demanded by any CC licence), such an editor would violate the very bases of Creative Commons' spirit: who would share freely their works knowing that the latter might be changed at any time and by anyone and still published under their own names? (Under the authors, I mean here not only writers, but scientists, artists, and other professionals as well). There's a clear border between the original and its derivatives. --Tamtam90 (talk) 08:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the issue has been poorly explained. The articles in question contain translations that are cited at Wikisource. Changing the translation then results in a false citation. I think it is important to separate the Wikipedia article and the translation document on Wikisource. The wikipedia article can be edited, the wikisource translation should stay intact. The policy question, is how can Wikipedia editors use the Wikisource translation and how do they cite it? Wikisource surely has their own policies. Tinynanorobots (talk) 09:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    An additional column might be a healthy solution. That's not "a one-hit wonder": such approach does work in some pages on the folk songs: The Song of the Volga Boatmen, Kalinka (1860 song), Arirang, and other related articles. --Tamtam90 (talk) 09:57, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    About "minor disasters": the above-mentioned user undid or "cleant" my changes in three of the last four articles: Das Todaustreiben, Wiegenlied (Des Knaben Wunderhorn), Es kam ein Herr zum Schlößli, Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär. How many new contributors, in your opinion, would withstand such "attention"? I'm not a "newb" in Wikipedia, though I have a sense of some prejudice (maybe, implicit). --Tamtam90 (talk) 09:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    An inspection of the edit history of 3 of these 4 articles shows that my edits were substantial improvements; I never touched the 4th, "Wiegenlied" (Des Knaben Wunderhorn). All my edits are intended to collegially improve Wikipedia; I don't think I've ever been accused of prejudice or harassment, and I reject that characterisation. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, three. Yes, and certain your improvements made some admins from Wikipedia and Wikisource to intervene, to solve the previous conflict (1, 2) --Tamtam90 (talk) 11:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not the place to settle the underlying content disputes, and I was going to confine my comments to the relevant article talk pages, but I have looked at the articles in question, and I want to weigh in briefly in support of Michael Bednarek, who was right to point out the problems with the "translations" that the OP added to these articles. Some of them are pretty dreadful, to be honest, and they reveal a shaky understanding of both German and English. In the OP's version of Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär, to give just one example, the third stanza bears no relationship to the meaning of the German original and is only barely intelligible in English, and putting it into a different column and labeling it "poetic" doesn't change that. There are two questions here: (1) Should the poems written by the OP and self-published on Wikisource be reproduced as written if they are quoted on Wikipedia; and (2) Should these poems, given their inaccuracies and other shortcomings, be cited or reproduced in Wikipedia articles as reliable translations of the original texts? The answer to the first question is yes, I think: if they are treated as "published" versions and provided with Wikisource citations, they should be probably be used unchanged (as pointed out above by Tinynanorobots). But the answer to the second question is, in my opinion, a firm no: if the OP will not allow the errors to be corrected, then his versions should not be used at all. The author is free to publish and promote his own poems wherever he likes, but he should not be inserting them into Wikipedia articles and fighting to retain them when other editors have pointed out that they misrepresent the original texts, and he should certainly not be dragging those editors to ANI on spurious charges of vandalism and disruptive editing. Crawdad Blues (talk) 17:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Strongly agreed on both points. The translation of Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär turns a poem about someone who wishes they were a bird so that they could fly to their love but cannot, into a poem about someone who once was a bird and is now unable to vomit. Furius (talk) 17:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The last comment doesn't need any reply: I only hope its author had no chance to translate anything from medieval poetry. About the second question posed by Crawdad Blues: 1) What do you mean under the "errors"? If you mean the so-called "anachronisms" — that's quite normal, to translate them in a proper way. Note, that all (or almost all) songs of that collection have been recorded before 19-th century, and many of them belong to the folklore of the Middle Ages. If you mean "word for word" translation — that's impossible for "poetical translation" (you might ask any poet-translator). That's why one may add the third column, for "word for word" translation.--Tamtam90 (talk) 20:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To Michael Bednarek. You began publicly blame me for my "inaccuracies" and "anachronisms". But what about your own mistakes (assuming that your goal was "word-to-word" translation, not rhyme and metre)? In Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär, you translated:

    Bin ich gleich weit von dir, bin ich doch im Schlaf bei dir

    as

    Though I am far from you, I'm with you as I sleep

    instead of

    Whether I am far from you, Or I am near you while asleep

    ?

    viel tausendmal

    as

    a thousand times

    instead of

    many thousand times

    ?
    And once again about some possible "harassment": if your wish is only "to collegially improve Wikipedia", why, right after the first our conflict, you again started to hunt after some "mistakes" and "shortages" in the next article created by me, though other songs from the collection still wait their translators (I mean only existing articles and only from the German Wikipedia, compare with those from the sister project).--Tamtam90 (talk) 20:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Since these translations are cited to Wikisource under the author's name, altering them without the use of [square brackets] is misquoting (violates WP:V) and might be a copyright issue.
    However, I also share Crawdad's and Furius's concerns about the accuracy of these translations. Of the two examples listed directly above as erroneous corrections, in the first case "Though I am far from you, I'm with you as I sleep" is in fact a more accurate translation, while in the second case I agree that "many thousand times" is more accurate.
    I've rewritten the first sample, trying to make it more exact. Compare with entweder... oder.... --Tamtam90 (talk) 22:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is also a limit to how much leeway a poetic translation gets; translating "bleib ich allhier" as "I cannot heave"(?!) when the metrically and rhyme-wise equivalent "I cannot leave" is available is way outside those limits. But that's a content issue, not a conduct issue. Toadspike [Talk] 20:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the two salient points have been made clear: 1) if we are directly quoting a translation from Wikisource, then that quotation cannot be "improved" through editing here; 2) if that translation is perceived as being substandard, then there is no reason why we should be forced to use it - this is not a cite from the Authoritative Translations of German Poetry, but Some Random Dude's Private Effort (no offense).
    Hence, in the cases noted, if there is consensus that it does not do a good job, either remove the translation; provide a literal but more accurate new translation; or provide an altered version that is clearly labeled as being based on the Wikisource text. - In my opinion, parts of the translation are fine (e.g. the female rendering of winter is actually not an unsuitable touch, even if decidedly "poetical"), some rather less so (although "heave" is a typo for "leave" - right? right?). Fixing up those bits with the help of other contributors might provide good results. I hope Tamtam90 would be sensible enough to not fight tooth and claw against such an effort. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 08:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Elmidae, thanks for some support. Without an additional pronoun ('myself'), 'leave' would be a better choice. As for the gender, I already mentioned — that's not a "poetical whimsy": so depicted the Winter the Germans and their neighbours (the Slavs): 1, 2.--Tamtam90 (talk) 12:47, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The text itself uses masculine gender, so very clearly at the time the poem was written, they didn't, or at the very least the author did not intend that depiction. Whatever - this stuff is for discussion on the article talk page. What needs to be cleared up here is whether you are going to continue to obstruct all attempts to alter the translations according to consensus, because that is going to be a problem. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:22, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Since there is general agreement that decisions about the use of these translations should be discussed on the article talk pages, I will note here that I have removed the disputed translation from Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär, leaving in place the more literal version, which seems to me a better choice for an encyclopedia article. I've explained my reasoning on the talk page; other comments are welcome there. Crawdad Blues (talk) 18:38, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm already pointed at two wrong translations of my opponent. Instead, without any further discussion, you removed my "poetic" version and left his "text" (without proper rhyme and metre, though still with some mistakes). Is that a way of how-to-use talk pages in en-wikipedia? --Tamtam90 (talk) 15:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No one here is your opponent. Though you are doing a good job demonstrating that you cannot work collaboratively with others. Insanityclown1 (talk) 05:02, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Of the two "wrong translations" you point out above, the first is not wrong at all. (The adverb doch in the second clause shows that the construction is "although X, nevertheless Y"; your "whether ... or" translation is impossible.) Your second suggestion, however, has already been accepted and added to the article. Another editor saw your comment, agreed with it, and made the change. This is how collaborative editing works: sometimes you get what you want, sometimes you don't. I explained my reasons for removing your translation from Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär on the article talk page. If you can come up with a compelling argument why it should remain in the article, someone else will probably restore it. The place to do that is the talk page. Crawdad Blues (talk) 14:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    User:AstroGuy0

    [edit]

    AstroGuy0 has created at least two articles in mainspace and an additional draft. I have reason to suspect that this user is using AI to generate these articles, upon examining the initial edits for Delivering Outstanding Government Efficiency Caucus, Daniel Penny, and Draft:A Genetic Study on the Virulence Mechanism of Burkholderia glumae (2013). As I noted in Talk:Department of Government Efficiency, in which I warned AstroGuy0 about using AI, these edits have a varied use of links, false statements—as evidenced in the DOGE Caucus article that claims that the caucus was established in November 2024, an untrue statement—incongruousness between the grammar used in how AstroGuy0 writes on talk pages and how he writes in articles, a lack of references for many paragraphs, inconsistencies with the provided references and paragraphs—for instance, with the first paragraph in "Criminal Charges and Legal Proceedings" on the initial edit to Daniel Penny and the fourth reference, and vagueness in content. I ran the caucus article through GPTZero and it determined that it was likely AI-generated; I have not done so for the others. AstroGuy0 has denied using AI. If that is true, then he or she should be able to explain the discrepancies in the references they are citing and what they are including in articles and why they chose to word specific phrases in a certain way. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Yeah, this does look like AI use. I had previously WP:BLAR'd a redundant article of theirs into the main one (Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) into Department of Government Efficiency); the article AstryoGuy0 created has lots of hallmarks of AI generation. I'd also like to hear from them on this. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @AstroGuy0: Any comment regarding the above? It's a serious complaint. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 23:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Independent eyes needed on Triptane

    [edit]

    Can someone please take a look at recent edits, and a resultant two-week first block, at Triptane, thanks Andy Dingley (talk) 22:18, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    That would be a bit over the top, no? Nobody's exceeded 3RR and the reverting stopped 7 hours ago. BethNaught (talk) 22:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh dear, I misunderstood you, the IP editor was actually blocked and you're asking for a review of the appeal at User talk:5.178.188.143. BethNaught (talk) 22:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm confused by the reverts being based on WP:CITEVAR, since the article (before the edits) only had 1 ref and it used CS1, as did the refs in the reverted edits (unless I'm misreading them somehow). And two weeks seems harsh for a long-term constructive IP editor for a first block. Two editors made 3 reverts each but only one was blocked, that's also confusing. Schazjmd (talk) 22:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    UtherSRG, who blocked the IP, wasn't notified but I'd like to see their comments here. Spicy (talk) 23:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Bad block. Mr. Ollie is out of line. The IP's version is clearly superior. Carlstak (talk) 23:45, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to agree, and this is hardly the first time Mr. Ollie has refused discussion. Hellbus (talk) 23:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you mean. I started a discussion on the IP's talk page because this was an issue across other articles as well ([1], [2], [3], [4]). Their last edit on Triptane used the existing citation style, so I had no plan to revert further. I did not request nor did I expect the IP to be blocked. MrOllie (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I had made it clear on my talk page way before this incident that I won't touch your citation style on the statistics pages you listed in the future. However, on the pages I'm writing I can use whatever citation style I like, and you can't use CITEVAR regarding the citations I added to the page you have never edited. And of course you had no plan to revert further, that would have broken 3RR which I made clear I am aware of. 5.178.188.143 (talk) 10:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, 3RR isn't the only trip line. It was still an edit war, so I blocked accordingly. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Two editors were edit warring. I don't understand why you blocked the IP but not MrOllie, or better, protected the page to force discussion. Spicy (talk) 15:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right. I probably should have done either of those. My GF-meter has been eroding, and I've taken to assuming better of more established editors over IPs. I'll strive to do better. My apologies to the IP. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:23, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Socking

    [edit]
    Done — rsjaffe 🗣️ 04:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    MAB is creating socks faster than I can block them.......see my recent contributions. 331dot (talk) 09:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Is there any way to track them with this type of contribution pattern? Checking new user accounts? Ymblanter (talk) 09:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've been watching the user creation log. Their latest spat seems to be over. 331dot (talk) 09:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I know that WMF was sent info on them so they could take action and I thought some filters were set up. Liz Read! Talk! 09:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Should I send these account names somewhere? 331dot (talk) 09:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think I got it, will help now.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we are done for the time being. Ymblanter (talk) 09:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
    Looks like they're creating socks in batches so they can get them in before one is blocked requiring them to change their IP. 331dot (talk) 10:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I blocked the rest for the time being. Ymblanter (talk) 13:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Cross-wiki harassment and transphobia from User:DarwIn

    [edit]

    User:DarwIn, a known transphobic editor from pt.wiki, is harassing me here after his actions led me to leave that wiki permanently. He has also harassed me on Wikimedia Commons. I don't know what to do anymore. I just want to edit about transgender topics in peace. This is severely impacting my mental health. Skyshiftertalk 13:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    You don't seem to have notified the other editor. This is mandatory and this section may be closed if you fail to do so. Use {{subst:ANI-notice}}~~~~ on that user's talk page. Additionally, you don't seem to have provided specific diffs demonstrating harassment. Please do so. --Yamla (talk) 13:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    On pt.wiki, DarwIn proposed the deletion of articles I created about transgender topics (Thamirys Nunes and Minha Criança Trans), using transphobic arguments, including misgendering and questioning the validity of transgender children. After translating these articles to en.wiki, he is targeting the DYK nomination, again focusing on his personal transphobic beliefs - as it shows, he doesn't even know how DYK works. He insisted multiple times trying to include his transphobic comment on that page and has just edited it again. On Commons, for extra context, DarwIn unilaterally deleted images related to these articles, despite being clearly involved in the dispute.
    Again, I just want to collaborate with trans topics in peace. Skyshiftertalk 13:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can't help you with pt.wikipedia.org or with commons, only with en.wikipedia.org. Please provide specific diffs for en.wikipedia.org. --Yamla (talk) 13:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes. However, context is important. This is harassment that began on pt.wiki, has spread to Commons, and is now here. The history has been provided, but, sure, I can provide the diffs instead. He has unilaterally edited the DYK page and put a "disagree", despite this being not how DYK works. This is because he really doesn't know, as he only sporadically edits here and only came back to harass me. His comment is explicitly transphobic and doesn't focus on the article itself at all. After his comment was reverted by me, he insisted saying that I shouldn't call it transphobia, despite it being transphobia. After being reverted again, he reincluded the comment. I asked him to stop harassing me, but he has edited the page again.
    I just don't want to be targeted by that editor here. I've left pt.wiki in great part for that reason. I just want to edit about transgender topics in peace here. Skyshiftertalk 13:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Looks like yet another cross-wiki troll by this user. Already blocked at the Portuguese Wikipédia and Wikimedia Commons, the account is now promoting their POV here, including spreading lies, hideous slurs and baseless accusations against me like "known transphobic", after two of their creations were taken to community evaluation at the Portuguese Wikipedia for lacking notability. The user is also a known sockpuppeter, with an open case for sockpuppetry at the Portuguese Wikipédia. In any case, I'm not interested in pursuing this case in yet another project apart from the strictly needed, so do as you please. Darwin Ahoy! 13:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have been blocked on the Portuguese Wikipedia for contesting that transphobia was called "valid criticism" on ANI and on Commons for literally nothing. Skyshiftertalk 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Questioning a women that declared her 4 year old son as trangender after he refused to play with cars and Marvel puppets and preferred what his mother calls "girl stuff" doesn't fit in any reasonable definition of transphobia, a word which you are well known for abusing whenever anyone criticizes you at the Portuguese Wikipedia and elsewhere. In any case, I don't think this is the place for this discussion, so this will be my last direct answer to you you'll see in this board. Darwin Ahoy! 13:32, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And here's explicit transphobia. It's her daughter, no matter how much you hate the idea of trans children existing. The story you've told is also completely distorted. Skyshiftertalk 13:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I simply don't want this editor targeting me with transphobic stuff here after he target me on pt.wiki (and left it permanently in great part for that reason) and Commons. I am considering taking medication because of these events. Skyshiftertalk 13:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment I would suggest Darwin review MOS:GENDERID. If the child uses she/her pronouns we should not be referring to her with he/him pronouns. Simonm223 (talk) 15:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        @Simonm223 I would suggest you to recall we ate talking about a 4 year child whose social gender was chosen by their mother after the child refused to play with what she calls "boy toys", such as toy cars and Marvel puppets. If that's not enough that this kind of gender prejudice was already abhorrent and condemned even in the generation of my babyboomer parents, one of the first things we teached as LGBT activists in the 1990s was that our parents don't own us nor our sexuality or our gender. So please let's refrain from doing that kind of suggestions when what is in question is the gender identity of a 4 year old attributed by their mother. Ok? Darwin Ahoy! 15:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        @DarwIn, the bottom line is that you don't get to question that. As a complete stranger to that child you have no right to do so, plus this is not the place to even enter into that discussion. How does complete strangers on the internet talking about a child's gender do them any good? This isn't the place anyway so please just follow guidelines, which have been put in place for a good reason. Blue Sonnet (talk) 15:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I questioned the mother, not the child. I've no idea why we are discussing this here, anyway. Darwin Ahoy! 15:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        We're here because this "questioning" appears to be bleeding into transphobic harassment. I would support an indef based on edits like this [5] Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        The story told above is completely distorted to fit the transphobic's narrative. Simon223, if you want to get the full story, read Thamirys Nunes' page or read its sources (with the help of a translator if needed). Skyshiftertalk 15:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I would like to suggest we follow MOS regardless of people's personal opinion of early childhood gender expression. Simonm223 (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Rephrase that as mothers opinions on their 4 year old baby gender expression. Darwin Ahoy! 15:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Darwin - I suggest you drop whatever agenda you have, treat other editors with respect, and comply with our MOS (including MOS:GENDERID) - otherwise you will be blocked. GiantSnowman 15:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Sure, if in this Wikipedia the community accepts the opinions of a mother of a 4 year old on their child gender based on her very biased self declared social constructs about toy cars being for boys and makeup being for girls, that's perfectly fine, even if those are not my own opinions. To each Wikipedia community their rules and their stuff. People seem to have become very agitated over something on which I've not the least interest on debating here, specially on this space, so I'm retiring myself from this topic. Good debate everyone, have an happy new year, you can find me at my talk page if you need so. Darwin Ahoy! 16:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Just so everyone knows, the facts are being quite distorted here. It wasn't really an imposition — her daughter, did not want to play with "boy toys", even when being forced by her mom. That's why the mom said she plays with "girl toys" and everything else. The references on said articles weren't thoroughly read, apparently by everybody here.
        Adding to this too: DarwIn, in some edits to the article in the Portuguese Wikipedia, added "quotes" on the word trans and some other parts of the articly, as if was his duty to judge if the girl is trans or not. Anyways, I think what happened in ptwiki stays there.
        And I want to make clear that I'm only stating the things that happened so everyone knows. I do not support blocking him. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 16:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Four year olds are generally not considered babies. You really need to drop this - and probably to avoid editing in the WP:GENSEX area.Simonm223 (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I would suggest a topic ban is imposed. GiantSnowman 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I would support a topic ban from WP:GENSEX. Simonm223 (talk) 16:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Given that much of what they've been saying is about living people I think we would need to expand this to at least cover all other BLPs until such a time as they have demonstrated that they actually understand that the BLP policy applies to non-article spaces on wiki as well as articles. Overall this seems more like NOTHERE than something which a topic ban can remedy. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:14, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Topic ban from GENSEX and BLP, broadly construed, is fine for me. GiantSnowman 16:16, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I do understand this Wikipedia rules on BLP. Isn't that not enough for you? Darwin Ahoy! 16:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Given your comments here and at DYK, you clearly do not. GiantSnowman 16:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        You seem to have missed the part when I very clearly stated there that I retired myself from that DYN debate. Darwin Ahoy! 16:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        @GiantSnowman nice try, but I don't edit on that topic, anyway. Let's calm down and enjoy the Christmas season. Darwin Ahoy! 16:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        This is the opposite of the attitude you need to adopt if you want to remain an editor in good standing. Remeber if you didn't edit on that topic we wouldn't be having this discussion, we're here because of edits you made in that topic area. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:15, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Then get your facts right, as I never edited any biography on that topic here, at least that I can recall. Darwin Ahoy! 16:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        You fundementally misunderstand the scope of WP:BLP and the concept of topic area as well. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Look, I'm at a family gathering and I really have nor time nor patience for this kind of endless debates, specially on culture wars topics. I've already retired from DYN yesterday but you seem to insist on pursuing this kind of Salem witch hunting here, but really, I'll not be anymore part of that. Roger and over, happy new year. Darwin Ahoy! 16:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I think you may be getting different editors confused, I was not a participant at DYN. I did not pursue you to here. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        it was a collective you. Darwin Ahoy! 16:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        The collective you did not pursue you here either. Only the OP appears to cross over. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I noticed this yesterday but intentionally didn't mention it since I felt there had already been enough nonsense. But since DarwIn is still defending their offensive comments below, I'd note that the child was 4 years old in 2019. It's now 2024 and they've evidentally seen a medical professional. If at any time they express a desire for a different gender identity we will of course respect that whatever her mother says; but at this time BLP full supports respecting a 8-9 year old and not treating her as a baby. Nil Einne (talk) 22:49, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        None of this is relevant. We follow sources and MOS:GENDERID. There is obviously no Wikipedia position on when someone is or is not a "baby" and should have their self-identification reproduced in their biography. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 12:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They cannot be trusted. Above they said "I'm retiring myself from this topic" and yet has continued to post. GiantSnowman 16:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've continued to post where? Darwin Ahoy! 16:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've already walked away from it yesterday, why you're insisting on that lie? Darwin Ahoy! 16:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You are continuing to post here, ergo you have not "walked away" from it, have you? GiantSnowman 16:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @DarwIn The issue here is not whether you are right or wrong. The issue here is that you are violating a community guideline. That's it. Either you stop or you will end up getting blocked. I have my own disagreements with that guideline, and as a consequence I simply stay far away from those articles or discussions. You should too. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How can I get out of this endless cycle, if each time you ask me to stop and I say I already stopped yesterday, you came back chastising me for having answered again? That's not fair. Darwin Ahoy! 16:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Simply post a note at the bottom of the discussion stating that given your respectful disagreement with parts of MOS:GENDERID that you will voluntarily avoid any articles or discussions where that is, or may become, an issue. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Which discussion are you talking about? Now I'm confused. Can't you be more clear? Darwin Ahoy! 16:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @DarwIn This one. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ad Orientem I've already done it, but you keep writing below it, so it's not in the bottom anymore. Darwin Ahoy! 17:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @DarwIn Easiest way to defuse this is to post a bolded and outdented statement at the very bottom of the this discussion stating you understand MOSGENDERID and will avoid pages or discussions where it may become an issue, and that you will avoid as far as possible, interacting with Skyshifter. If there are other issues here, I have no comment on those. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure, here it goes again: "if in this Wikipedia the community accepts the opinions of a mother of a 4 year old on their child gender based on her very biased self declared social constructs about toy cars being for boys and makeup being for girls, that's perfectly fine, even if those are not my own opinions. To each Wikipedia community their rules and their stuff. People seem to have become very agitated over something on which I've not the least interest on debating here, specially on this space, so I'm retiring myself from this topic. Good debate everyone, have an happy new year, you can find me at my talk page if you need so" Darwin Ahoy! 17:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is not an appropriate statement, it has your bias/agenda throughout it. Very concerning. GiantSnowman 18:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I believe it may help too, if Darwin will promise to avoid interacting on main space with Skyshifter. GoodDay (talk) 17:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Not that I ever interacted with her there AFAIK, anyway. Darwin Ahoy! 17:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think Darwin should avoid interacting with Skyshifter on all spaces on en.wikipedia.org. It's clear Darwin has made Skyshifter feel uncomfortable, and I don't appreciate it. Isaidnoway (talk) 17:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Isaidnoway I absolutely agree with that, I'm not doing any sort of interaction with that account anymore. I'm still answering here because you keep mentioning me. Darwin Ahoy! 17:53, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Since you "absolutely agree", then I will take your comment here as acknowledging a voluntary one-way interaction ban, broadly construed, as in effect. Isaidnoway (talk) 18:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Isaidnoway yes, that's correct. Darwin Ahoy! 18:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Would recommend that Darwin walk away from the general topic. This would avoid any need for topic bans. GoodDay (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clarification
    • Hello @Nil Einne - and others. Please recall that my opinion was specifically over the declaration of the child gender by her mother at or before her 4th birthday, by her mother own account based on classical gender stereotypes. It's specifically about that. I've no way to know what gender the child is or will eventually be in the future, and gladly accept whatever she chooses - as I would if she was my own child. I've eventually been harsher than needed in the DYK comment because that specific situation where a minor is extensively exposed with full name, photographs, etc. by her parents on social networks, newspapers and whatelse is generally condemned in my country, to the point of eventually configuring a crime here. Obviously Wikipedia has nothing to do with that when it comes to the spread of information, but in my view - obviously wrong, from the general reaction here - exposing the child in yet another place, let alone wiki.en main page, was a bit too much.
    • As for misgendering, I am one of the founders and former board member of ILGA Portugal, which after 30 years still is the main LGBT association in Portugal, though not an active member for many years for moving away from Lisbon, where it's headquartered. For more than 30 years I've been on the fight against homophobia and transphobia, not specially in Wikipedia, but on the streets, where it was needed in the 1990s here in Portugal, when the whole LGBT thing was just starting and most people couldn't even tell the difference between a drag queen and a trangender woman. I was beaten up, lost my 2 front teeth on homo/transphobic street fights (the first one at 18 years old, for publicly defending from booers in the audience a trangender girl which was acting at a local bar )- and whatelse. I never had even the least impulse to misgender any of the many trangender people that always have been around me, and the few situations where that may have happened were online with people that I knew for years as being one gender, and took a while to sink they are another, because online there's not the ever helping visual clue. So it's kind of disheartening to be treated like this in a strange place by people I don't know just because I expressed an (harsh, agreed) opinion defending the age of consent for children, and condemning their parents interference on that.
    • The TBan is not very relevant for me, as I seldom edit here and despite the activism of my past days LGBT is not my primary interest on Wikipedia, but I'm considerably saddened by the misunderstandings, bad faith assumptions, false accusations that have been told here about me, though eventually the flaw is not in the whole group that has their own rules and culture, but in the newcomer which don't understand it well in all its nuances, as was my case here.
    • Finally, as the misunderstandings continue, I never came here after Skyshifter, which as is public and she knows, I've always considered a good editor and helped several times with articles and what else (which is also why I felt confident to answer with a 😘 when she called me a dictator in another project, though it was obviously not the most appropriate way to answer it, and for which I apologize to Skyshifter). In this last row I wasn't even directly involved in her indefinite block in wiki.pt, despite being mentioned there. I didn't even touched the articles she created here on Thamirys Nunes and Minha Criança Trans or addressed she here in any way. I came here because of the DYK note, which, as said above, I thought was an exaggerated exposition for that case here on the English Wikipedia. As you extensively demonstrated here, it is not, and I defer to your appreciation. Despite that, after this whole situation I've not the least interest on interacting in any possible way with Skyshifter, with or without IBan.
    • And that's it. Hopefully you'll excuse my verbosity, specially in such a festive day, but I felt this last clarification was needed. I also present my apologies to all those who may have felt offended by an eventual appearance of cockiness or defiance which I inadvertently sometimes transmit in my speech. I'll return here if specifically asked to, otherwise I'll leave the debate for this community. Again, stay well, and have an happy new year. Darwin Ahoy! 17:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Proposed Community Sanctions

    [edit]

    I offered DarwIn an off ramp above and their response was to reiterate their views on a highly controversial subject and their responses to concerns about their interactions with Skyshifter have been entirely unsatisfactory. This looks a like a pretty clear case of IDHT revolving around their strong disagreement with one of our guidelines. Frankly, I came very close to just blocking them after their response to my suggestion. This discussion has already dragged on long enough. For purposes of clarity, nobody is required to agree with all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. And yes, gender is a highly controversial subject. I have my own disagreements with parts of MOS:GENDERID. But as the old saying goes, themz the rules until they aint. Editors are free to disagree with community P&G, but are not free to ignore or flout them. It's time to settle this.

    Proposed DarwIn is topic banned from all pages and discussions relating to WP:GENSEX broadly construed and is subject to a one way IBan with user Skyshifter, also broadly construed. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:25, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Why it should be a one-way iban? Skyshifter started this topic with the characterization of their opponent as "a known transphobic editor". A normal editor would be blocked just for writing this. I am not sure a iban is needed, but if it is needed it must be mutual. Ymblanter (talk) 18:53, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's actually a fair point. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It would be more compelling if DarwIn weren't so committed to misgendering a child out of some apparent WP:RGW impulse. Simonm223 (talk) 19:14, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Simonm223 You have been misjudging me - It was quite the opposite, actually, if it's worth anything. Darwin Ahoy! 19:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The child, according to the reliable sources I have seen, uses she/her pronouns. Your changing your comments from he/him to they/them does not bring even that one comment in line with our MOS. I am not interested in whether you, in your heart of hearts, are a transphobe. I am concerned that your editing in the WP:GENSEX area is disruptive in a way that will likely make trans editors less comfortable working in the en.wiki project. As a result I think you should avoid editing in that topic area. Furthermore I think you should leave Skyshifter alone as you have not provided a satisfactory explanation for your participation in the DYK thread. Simonm223 (talk) 20:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Simonm223 OK, I didn't knew the child used those pronouns when she was 4 years old, I commit to use them here if I would ever talk about that issue again (which I definitely will not, anyway). Darwin Ahoy! 20:16, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If they weren't before they are now... Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, to be clear, I oppose a one-way IB. I do not find this argument convincing. Ymblanter (talk) 19:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 12:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Pppery: days ago? I think you might have misread the time stamps. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:57, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support the TBAN; personally I'd have indeffed several outdents sooner, but here we are. No opinion on the IBAN. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 23:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support Given what's happened, I think an enforceable topic ban is better than Darwin stepping away. IMO the BLP issues is far more concerning than gensex one so I'd support a BLP topic ban as well, but it seems likely a gensex one would be enough to stop Darwin feeling the continued need to express their opinions on a living person. Since Darwin is going to step away anyway and barely edits en, it should be a moot point and if it's not that's why it's enforceable. As for the iban, while I don't think Skyshifter should have described Darwin in that way when opening this thread, I think we can accept it as a one time mistake under the stress of apparently being followed and given questionable way Darwin ended up in a dispute here with someone they'd had problems with elsewhere I think a one-way iban is justified. Nil Einne (talk) 23:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Nil Einne What " continued need to express their opinions on a living person"? My single-1-single comment in the DYK? Darwin Ahoy! 23:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @DarwIn: Demonstrating the problem. You claim you only did it once elsewhere but anyone reading this thread can see you did it here so many times #c-DarwIn-20241229133200-Skyshifter-20241229132800, #c-DarwIn-20241229152900-Simonm223-20241229150600, #c-DarwIn-20241229154200-Blue-Sonnet-20241229154000, #c-DarwIn-20241229154100-Simonm223-20241229153800, #c-DarwIn-20241229160700-GiantSnowman-20241229154400, #c-DarwIn-20241229172200-Ad_Orientem-20241229171800. I think it represents maybe 1/3 of your comments here (whether counting comments or text). There is absolutely no reason for you to go around expressing your opinions on two different living persons to say you're going to walk away. And if you need to express your opinion on living persons to defend your actions, you clearly have no defence. Nil Einne (talk) 00:22, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      So let's get this straight. You are proposing a topic ban on me because of the personal opinions on (the eventual lack of) selfdetermination of 4 year old children that I expressed here in this board, despite that my editions related to it were limited to a 1-single-1 comment on that issue on the DYK page? This is really looking like thought police. I tell you, my personal positions are my personal positions, and I'll not change them to please you, even if if costs me a Topic Ban for barely mentioned them on this project a single time before this topic was opened here. Darwin Ahoy! 00:28, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Holding an opinion ≠ expressing an opinion. Only one of these is causing an issue. Blue Sonnet (talk) 00:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I expressed it only 1-one-1 time here almost 1 day before being recalled here to explain it, and after voluntarily saying in the same page that I would not express it again there. Now I'm being punished for explaining it here too, after being requested to do that? This is insufferable. Darwin Ahoy! 00:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      User:DarwIn, I think at this point, further comments from you will not be helping your case. If this is insufferable (and being summoned to ANI generally is), it might help to step back from this discussion and only respond if editors ask you specific questions. When discussions get this long, often the small benefit from continuing to comment does not outweigh the cost of continued misunderstanding among editors. Liz Read! Talk!
      @Liz: Thank you for the wise advice, I'll be doing that. Darwin Ahoy! 03:38, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @DarwIn: you can think whatever you like about living persons. I have a lot of views on living persons which I would never, ever express on wiki for various reasons including BLP. Also you defence is bullshit. No one ever asked you to make accusations around living persons to defend your actions. And yes it is fairly normal that editors may be sanctioned if they feel they need to do such things about living persons on ANI as part of some silly argument or defence. I recall an editor who was temporarily blocked after they felt the need to say two very very famous extremely public figure living persons (and some non living) were sex predators to prove some point at ANI. And I'm fairly sure a lot of people have said and feel those people are sex predators including some Wikipedians I'd even probably agree in at least one case, they just understand it's not something they should be expressing here. Nil Einne (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      For clarity, what I mean by my last sentence is that I'm sure quite a few people would agree with the statements. I'm sure such statements have been made elsewhere probably even in opinions printed in reliable sources (I think the editor did link to some such opinions). I'm sure even quite a few Wikipedians would agree that one or more of these people are sex predators, I think I'd even agree with it in at least one case. However most of us understand that our personal views of living persons, especially highly negatives views are generally not something to be expressed on wiki except when for some reason it's important enough to the discussion that it's reasonable to say it. When you keep saying something and in the same paragraph acknowledge the English wikipedia doesn't consider your opinion relevant, then it's clear there was no reason for you to say it. You're still free to believe it just as I'm still free to believe all those things about living persons that I would never express on wiki. Nil Einne (talk) 06:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support - Darwin's replies and conduct here indicates that he simply doesn't get it.
    MiasmaEternal☎ 02:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This reasoning looks like a case of punishing somebody for political and cultural views rather than behaviour.Boynamedsue (talk) 16:41, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Followung editors from wiki to wiki because of transphobic beliefs is disruptive, and creepy. A boy named sue is a transphobic song by the way. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 17:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh dear. Do you think I should have a siteban, or would a TBAN suffice?--Boynamedsue (talk) 18:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If I was named after a joke about misgendering people, I'd avoid defending crosswiki culture warriors worried about misgendering people. You may just really be into Shel Silverstein. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "A Boy Named Sue", made famous by Johnny Cash sixty years ago [9], is a transphobic "joke about misgendering people"??? Oh my god, some people need to get out in the real world more. EEng 23:58, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for your valuable input. As always, you have advanced the conversation in a helpful way EEng. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 00:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No need to thank me. It's just part of the service. EEng 01:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    OK boomer. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 01:56, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand. Speaking up for the witch is a sign I too might be a witch. I'll try to be more careful in future.Boynamedsue (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Misgendering BLPs is disruptive. A Johnny Cash related username is not. Suggest the IP WP:DROPTHESTICK - while we may disagree with Boynamedsue regarding their interpretation here they have done nothing wrong. Simonm223 (talk) 21:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No. It's stopping a disruptive editor from continuing to edit disruptively. Simonm223 (talk) 17:17, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (edit conflict) NQP is an essay. Essentially it's an op-ed piece. It does not carry any force in the realm of WP:PG, and the views expressed there are controversial. (See the essay's talk page.). IMO words with some variation on "phobe/phobic" &c. are being routinely weaponized by people on one side of hot button cultural/political debates as part of an effort to demonize those on the other side of these debates. As such, I am inclined to view the use of such terms as a specie of WP:NPA. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    fair enough, i'll remove my vote for TBAN.
    sidenote, I have no qualms with labeling a behavior as queerphobia. I don't think calling out discrimination or disruptive attitudes is inherently a vio of NPA. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:53, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ... I am indecisive.. I'll add weak support for TBAN, I still think the topic area should not have folks who are disruptive like this. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 17:18, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Pervasively misgendering a child based on the belief that a child cannot express a desire to transition is a form of transphobic behavior. If it was a similar comment made about a BLP on the basis of religion or skin colour there would be no mention of WP:NPA. Wikipedia is generally good about handling racism. It is a perpetual stain upon the reputation of Wikipedia that it's culture continues to worry more about the feelings of people who take transphobic actions than of the victims of the same. Simonm223 (talk) 17:10, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Let's not. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    I am assuming you haven't spent much time in places WP:FTN where religious belief and persons of faith are not infrequently and quite openly subject to ridicule. Racism is a subject upon which society has happily come to more or less full agreement. Gender remains an extremely controversial subject with one side regularly resorting to argumentum ad hominem in efforts to demonize and de-legitimize the views of the other. I shall refrain from further comment out of deference to WP:FORUM. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:25, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fringe ideas get ridiculed at FTN regardless of whether or not they are religious... That so many fringe views are also religious is more a result of the supernatural, transcendental, and spiritual being inherently fringe than any problem with FTN. Religion which is rational and explainable isn't religion any more after all. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for affirming my point. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Your point was that "Gender remains an extremely controversial subject with one side regularly resorting to argumentum ad hominem in efforts to demonize and de-legitimize the views of the other." Right? Like for example the LGBTQ grooming conspiracy theory or is that not the side you were thinking of? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No. I was thinking of people who regularly insult and ridicule religious belief and those who hold to it. Something which based on your comment, does not seem to be a source of concern to you. That said, this discussion is veering deep into WP:FORUM territory and I am going to move on. Have a good day. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:16, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think I've ever seen any of those people suggest that trans people are demons, or did you mean demonize in a way other than literally saying that the other side is demonic/satan's minions? Becuase that would be highly ironic... Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:18, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am reaching the uncomfortable conclusion that you are attempting to be deliberately offensive. And for the record, you are succeeding. Good day. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You weren't aware that a cornerstone of the gender controversy was religious conservatives resorting to argumentum ad hominem in efforts to demonize and de-legitimize the views of the other? Because that is well documented in reliable sources. I don't think you're the one who is supposed to be offended here, you're the one saying what appear to be extremely offensive things and are being asked to clarify what you meant. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (edit conflict) I think a significant point here is that while we may tolerate some degree of forumish and offensive comment about gender or race or religions from editors when they are restricted to largely abstract comment or even when they reference other editors, it's far more of a problem when the editors make offensive accusations about living persons especially when these are completely unrelated to any discussion about how to cover something (noting that the editor continued to make the comment even after they had noted how the English wikipedia treats issues). So for example, if someone says a specific religious figure is delusion or lying in relation to how we treat their testimony that might barely be acceptable. When someone just comes out and says it repeatedly for no reason, that's far more of a problem. Especially if the figure is someone barely notable and not notable (as was the case here for one of the individuals each). Nil Einne (talk) 22:38, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is affairs of other wikis. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    • Comment This is definitely not the ideal place to discuss the subject since the whole problem originated with pt.wiki, but since the editor came here asking for help (for the right reasons or not), I will draw attention to the case of the admin accused of transphobia. This is not the first time that DarwIn has been singled out due to his comments on the subject (he has already given several examples of this here), but there is an official pt.wiki community on Telegram where the editor has already been criticized for making such comments. There, they were also celebrating Skyshifter's ban (DarwIn commented something like "as a man he was 100%, after transitioning he became unbearable" to refer to her). As much as they try not to link the group to the project, to use this chat you need to associate your Wikipedia credentials, so I am concerned that pt.wiki admins could be seen spreading speeches against minorities in an official space of the project, since Wikipedia is the target of attacks for investing in equity and diversity. In addition to this comment, the admin was also extremely rude and crude towards a Wikipedia research group that discusses gender, sexuality and race.
    Again, this is not the ideal place to comment on these issues, but I suggest that the case be submitted to Wikimedia if any intervention or something more incisive is necessary. The local community can accuse me of anything for writing these words, but I am concerned about the escalation of editorial harassment within that space.
    PS: The editor was mocking this discussion in the Telegram group while I was writing this. Jardel (talk) 01:57, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Came back after a month with no edits for this? It's quite clear Jardel is taking something personal with DarwIn here. Or he doesn't have anything to do at the moment. And he didn't have such great writing and narrative in his mother tongue, now is writing perfect, well written English. That gets stranger considering he's partially blocked in ptwiki for some beefing with other editors (block discussion in portuguese)... Quite strange, to say the least. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 03:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And yes, by "quite strange" I am talking about maybe meatpuppetry. Nobody comes after a month without edits (that was preeceded by some other months before some 5-ish edits), to make an "accusation" based on unfounded arguments, especially after being blocked precisely for beefing and attacking other members of the community in his homewiki. Such a hypocrisy, a user banned for beefing accusating another user of attacks and using the word "transphobia" so vaguely. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 03:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I expected, the group participants started making accusations against me (that's why Eduardo G. appeared in this discussion) and wanted to insinuate that Skyshifter is writing this text, perhaps wanting to provoke some kind of retaliation later. First, I appreciate the compliments on my writing, which was 100% done by Google Translate; I think Google's engineering is to be congratulated. Second, I'm only here on this page because I noticed the links to this discussion in the Telegram group itself and decided to contribute with what I've been reading for a long time with great disgust. I didn't need to bring much, Darwin himself made a point of making abject comments in this discussion, but if you want, I can bring some screenshots of what they were talking about in the group. Third, I did go 1 month without editing here because my focus is not on en.wiki but on pt.wiki, where I make regular edits. I find it strange that you entered this discussion without refuting any of the arguments above, thinking that bringing up my tarnished "reputation" changes everything that was written by me or in the group. I believe it must be embarrassing to participate in a group where they are celebrating the sanctions that Skyshifter will suffer (thinking that place is a "private club") while at the same time you send cordial greetings from the "public side" to the same editor, simulating virtue. In any case, my goal here is only to reinforce that there is indeed materiality in what Skyshifter said with more evidence and once again I recommend that the discussion be evaluated by the Wikimedia team knowing that attitudes that demonstrate prejudice against minorities go against the project's investments in equity, diversity and equality. Jardel (talk) 03:52, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I will not pursue any retaliation. I'm just stating what I know of this case, and I even supported Sky when the edits were being made. People are celebrating because all of this discussion was brought to even another wiki by her. But I understand you might've written this text, and will not take the subject further. If anybody needs anything, please read the message below. Cheers. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 03:54, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So, I don't disagree with your argument about the sanctions she's passing on the other project, unfortunately. As for "not pursue any retaliation", I don't think that's what you mean by the phrase "4 successful DBs [user blocking discussions] in a row is not for everyone." directed at me. Jardel (talk) 04:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jardel You're wrong, twice. First, it wasn't me saying that. It was NCC-1701, and my user in TG is Edu. And at no point did I agree with NCC's messages. And secondly, the "four DBs in a row" wasn't in anyway directed at you. It was directed to Bageense, who opened 4 block discussions in the last 2 or 3 days and all of them were successfull. You are distorting the messages to condone your erroneous narrative. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 04:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, if I am "distorting messages" to "tolerate" my narrative, anyone who wants to evaluate can join the group and read the messages posted there or see the pt.wiki discussion against the Projeto Mais Teoria da História na Wiki and talk to its members to see what their opinion is on the matter. I may not be a perfect person, but what I see with great displeasure (coming from those who are "in charge of the gears") is not positive for the project. Jardel (talk) 04:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Joining the group the community would then have no doubts about your intents and distortion of facts. You didn't deny the two things I said above — you know I'm right, you can't bend the facts this much. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 04:54, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    As a ptwiki user that know what's happening but talked to both sides of the discussion throughout it: This whole discussion started as a beef between Skyshifter and DarwIn. Skyshifter didn't accept some changes DarwIn made to an article "of her" (quotes because articles doesn't have owners. I respect her pronouns), and when discussing with DarwIn, called the whole Portuguese Wikipedia project a sewage (here)/in her UP, thus being banned and the ban being endorsed on the block discussion (in portuguese). The discussion was based on the references for the article, was solved in the ptwiki with an outburst from Sky, and that was it.

    This whole problem was brought here for a single reason only: Beef from Skyshifter with DarwIn. A single change or a single opinion on a DYK shouldn't be reason for a TB or IBAN anywhere in the world, especially considering that it was a difference interpreting the references. I know that my statement won't change anything, as there is an apparent "consensus" on TBanning and IBANning him, though I wanted to make things clear for everyone.

    I am totally open for questioning regarding any of my statements above, and I will supply you with any proof I have and you need. Just ping me here and if the inquiry/proofs are extremely important, please leave me a message on my portuguese talk page (direct url). It can be in English, just for me to see you need me here. Cheers. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 03:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    JardelW is a user who was banned from the Portuguese Wikipedia due to his detestable behavior. This individual used the same Telegram group that he is now criticizing. The editor was banned from this group due to his behavior, in which he called respected users of the community "worms, scoundrels, trash and deniers". And DarwIn is one of the administrators of the group where he is banned, so you can already imagine why he is here. Now, once again he is trying to destabilize the community by defending an editor who called the entire project a sewer and made unproven accusations against an administrator. At this point, the account is practically banned and the article that caused the discord has its deletion or merge defended by several editors. By coming here, JardelW and Skyshifter are, in a way, stating that the entire community is prejudiced. Yet another offense enters the list as proof of Jardel's destabilizing behavior. Furthermore, this user already tried to carry out the same destabilization by contesting on meta the banning of IPs, a consensual decision among hundreds of editors. And when he was still blocked, went to Meta-Wiki in an attempt to intervene in the Wikipedia domain, where he is banned, simply because he did not agree with the deletion of an article. And this without presenting any evidence. It is clear that Jardel's objective here is to take revenge on the community, and he will be punished for it. InvictumAlways (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    It is pretty clear thay the intents of Jardel here are disruptive. Your comment hopefully leaves no doubt to the community. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 04:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I said above, I am not a perfect person. I may have used foul language to address some editors in a moment of anger, but I felt vulnerable and hurt by editors I held in high regard, and I apologize for what I wrote in the past. Likewise, I do not think it is right that a social channel that is reported as "linked to Wikipedia" is being used as a bar where people can say whatever they want, especially when it comes to prejudiced comments against minorities. At no time did I label all of them, only one of them demonstrated that she was doing so. If I happen to receive any sanction for this discussion, and knowing that bringing issues from pt.wiki here is not ideal, I will receive it for doing the right thing, because I want something to change for the better in a project that I have dedicated so much time to contributing to. I may be prevented from editing on Wikipedia, but if what I bring here helps to change something, I will be happy. Jardel (talk) 05:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    InvictumAlways - this is your second edit ever, and your account was just created today - how did you get to this ANI post? jellyfish ✉ 05:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I saw a discussion in the group and created the account to not appear as an IP. InvictumAlways (talk) 05:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jardel The objective of the channel is to be a more relaxed place. And it's not official, as you said yourself previously. Angry moment? Are you sorry? After your block, you attacked editors on a social network, as attested by a CheckUser: [10]. And there are no prejudiced comments. That's a lie. Where are the links? And how much time have you devoted to the project when all you do is attack others? Enough of this nonsense. I ask that an administrator evaluate the conduct of this account. InvictumAlways (talk) 05:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't realize the discussion was closed. Sorry. InvictumAlways (talk) 05:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Supporting both IBAN and TBAN. Someone who actively believes in misgendering should not be allowed into this area when they have already demonstrably made another editor uncomfortable. The snarky reply to GiantSnowman does not convince me they would respond well if another editor brought up a similar concern in the future.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can't we give this child and her mother some privacy? What is it about gender issues, as opposed to other medical or developmental issues, that seems to give everyone a right to comment? Let's just report what reliable sources say and leave it at that. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If the mother had wanted privacy for her child, writing a book which makes it possible to identify her and know intimate details of her biology for the rest of her life, while documenting her transition step by step for hundreds of thousands of instagram followers, seem strange choices. I don't feel there are any privacy concerns here, that horse has long bolted, and we had nothing to do with opening the door.Boynamedsue (talk) 09:42, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Skyshifter taking matters from another Wikipedia to seek revenge.

    [edit]
    100% affairs of other wikis. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:42, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    This entire subsection is about Eduardo Gottert casting aspersions on Skyshifter and providing no diffs or evidence of this "revenge" except for statements about what is going on on another language Wikipedia which have no bearing on what occurs here. I'm closing this now before this WP:BOOMERANGs on to Eduardo Gottert and editors start proposing a block for personal attacks. Baseless counter attacks are generally dismissed at the English Wikipedia ANI. Please do not reopen this section. Liz Read! Talk! 09:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    On the 29th of December, User:Skyshifter started an AN/I based on a claim that User:DarwIn, a sysop at ptwiki, was cross-wiki harrassing her. To make up those claims, she used as a single proof, of him editing on a DYK nomination here. AFAIK, DYK nominations are open for debate.

    She accused him of transphobia, a very harsh word, over some 5 edits on the same page, and all the other arguments in her accusation were from the ptwiki with absolutely no relation to the English Wikipedia, and she tried to "force" that it was a cross-wiki harrassment, when it wasn't. The sole reason for that AN/I is a beef from Skyshifter with DarwIn.

    But all of this happened only, and just because of her banishment for the portuguese wiki. She is the cross-wiki harrasser in this situation, as she came to a project where DarwIn hasn't got nearly as many edits as his home-wiki and most of his edits are on discussions or category/commons related, to try blocking him and thus tarnish his block log.

    This is all for revenge of some articles that are being debated and will be either deleted or merged with other articles, and especially over her permanent block on the Portuguese Wikipedia, after calling the whole platform a sewage (here and in her UP), casting aspersions over other users and using ducks and meatpuppets to revert back the articles (one of her meats is currently being blocked from ptwiki too, see it here, with all the proofs). The block discussion taking place at the moment has 10 administrator votes in favour of the block, and absolutely no contrary opinion whatsoever.

    Despite some not-so-good arguments from DarwIn in the AN/I above, it is more than clear that the reason for the opening of the said AN/I was personal and for revenge. I'm open to any questions regarding this topic, as there is plenty of evidence to sustain my claims. All of this that she's doing would clearly fall under pt:WP:NDD, here called WP:ASPERSIONS I think, and disruptive editing/WP:POINT, and in the AN/I above she's commiting WP:BLUDGEON, repeating the eye-catching word "transphobia" over and over, without sustaining her argument accordingly, seeking to block a sysop at other 3 projects and rollbacker here, with the sole objective of tarnishing his block log, just for revenge and self-fullfillment.

    Eduardo G.msg-contrib 05:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Eduardo Gottert: You need to provide evidence when opening an ANI thread, not on request. Nil Einne (talk) 05:56, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    '@Nil Einne The evidences are above. I said if you need any further evidence, you may ask. All of the necessary evidence are on the request. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Where's the evidence? What we know is that DarwIn came here despite little involvement and made a highly offensive statement that can reasonably be characterised as transphobic. While I don't feel Sky Shifter should have described it so, better to let others decide, it was entirely reasonable for Sky Shifter to call for action against DarwIn for it. What is your evidence that they did it for revenge instead of for the fact that after a disagreement with DarwIn in a different wiki, DarwIn suddenly appeared in this wiki, one they themselves agree they barely edit, to make a highly offensive statement that Sky Shifter reasonably felt was transphobic. After doing so, they then appeared on ANI to make similar highly offensive statements were they made offensive accusations against living based on their own opinion. Nil Einne (talk) 06:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, the argument is pretty clear above. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you agree you're wrong then please withdraw this ANI. Nil Einne (talk) 06:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did not agree in any place that I am wrong. I just stated that the evidence is pretty clear above, with all the block discussions and diffs needed for understanding the problem. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Your statement was very unclear. You said "the argument" which I interpreted to mean my argument. If you're still claiming your argument is clear, then please explain how it can be when part of your argument is it was unfair for Sky Shifter to go around saying "transphobia" when many of us agree that even if it was unnecessary, it was not unsupported given the comments DarwIn was making do seem to be transphobic. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As we were talking about my evidence, I think saying "the argument" clearly refer to me. And as to the reason for the opening of this ANI, it's because the revenge seeking of Skyshifter. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I wouldn't say it doesn't considering as I said, one of the reasons your argument was flawed, but you didn't address that in any way. Nothing you've said above or since has explained why you're claiming Sky Shifter using the word "transphobic" is evidence for "revenge" when it's a reasonable characterisation of what DarwIn said. Nil Einne (talk) 06:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (edit conflict) I would add it's very unclear what you thinking you're adding that wasn't already considered above. In the above thread a 1 way iban on DarwIn seems to be getting serious consideration. A two way iban seems to have been rejected based on the assessment that whatever the wrongs with Sky Shifter's approach, it wasn't serious enough to warrant an iban. The fact that Sky Shifter was in a dispute with DarwIn on other wikis, and DarwIn was involved in their blocked is likewise not a secret, part of it was stated by Sky Shifter when opening the thread and the rest was stated by DarwIn. The sock allegation likewise. So what do you think you're adding to the discussion that wasn't already considered and seemingly rejected by the community above? Nil Einne (talk) 06:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is time for a WP:BOOMERANG. You already said all of that above. You seem to have been canvassed here from a discussion outside of this wiki. Go back there and let them know cross wiki harassment will get you blocked here. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 05:56, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I added more evidence and context. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You simply cast aspersions as part of a cross wiki harassment campaign against someone over transgender related issues. You are not here to build an encyclopedia. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 06:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Your statement doesn't even make sense. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can add WP:CIR to the reasons you are blocked then. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 06:28, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Am I? And where am I in violation of WP:CIR? Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:30, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I used plain English and you said you couldn't comprehend it. 107.115.5.100 (talk) 06:41, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I thought it was pretty well determined in that prior ANI thread that DarwIn's edits and statements absolutely were transphobic and bigoted. SilverserenC 06:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason for the AN/I opens is still the same, revenge. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 06:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've read many of the posts on the Portuguese wiki, and it is pretty clear that the Skyshifter's complaint above is a deliberate expansion of drama from there. The Portugese wiki is not Uganda, people do not get banned there for being Trans, and former admins don't get banned without causing a lot of disruption. It is clear these two users really strongly dislike each other and need to stop interacting in any way.--Boynamedsue (talk) 06:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      People obviously doesn't get banned for being trans. She was sysop there, commited some errors, but stayed there even after 5 months of being on estrogen. And the community knew it. What caused her block there was calling the project a sewage and then outbreaking and attacking other users. I suggest they get a two-way IBAN, at least, not the one-way as proposed on the other AN/I. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 07:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would add that unless I'm missing something, the block discussion on the Portugese Wikipedia [11] seems to have been started about 30 minutes before the ANI thread [12]. It has no contributions by DarwIn [13]. It is theoretically possible I guess it somehow factored into the motivation of Skyshifter opening the ANI thread, but this seems extremely unlikely. There's a good chance Skyshifter wasn't even aware of it when opening the thread. In other words, there's no reason to think Skyshifter was even aware they were likely going to be permanently blocked from pt at the time of opening the thread although they did say they weren't going to return. Nil Einne (talk) 07:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    She opened an NI, ptwiki equivalent of AN/I against DarwIn with crazy arguments. You can see it here. It was prompty closed, and she was very well aware of the consequences she would face, and of the opening of the block discussion, and clearly opened the AN/I because of that reason. The block discussion started at 1130 UTC, and the AN/I was posted at 1300, at a time that Skyshifter had already taken notice of the discussion, as you can see here. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 07:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is very blatantly a tit-for-tat. As mentioned above there is the distinct smell of fishiness about it, and as she came to a project where DarwIn hasn't got nearly as many edits as his home-wiki and most of his edits are on discussions or category/commons related, to try blocking him and thus tarnish his block log - yes, the editor who has three FAs on en.wiki "came to this project" to do this. Suggest this be promptly closed as I hear a WP:BOOMERANG inbound. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:09, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I am not saying she isn't an avid used of English wiki. I just stated that she took ptwiki matters here for revenge and self-fullfillment. Eduardo G.msg-contrib 07:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      If you aren't asking for any sanctions against Skyshifter, then why did you open this sub-section, just to sling some mud at her? Give it a rest already, you're just creating more drama than is necessary. Isaidnoway (talk) 08:34, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that the background of this dispute is very relevant. Obviously, neither Skyshifter or Darwin should face any repercussions here for behaviour on pt.wiki, but it isn't possible to understand what is happening here without discussing what happened there. For me, having read what happened over there is the main reason I wouldn't yet TBAN Darwin, and would call for a two-way rather than one way interaction ban.--Boynamedsue (talk) 08:50, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hounding and ownership behavior by Indepthstory

    [edit]
    Reported editor has been blocked as a sockpuppet. Schazjmd (talk) 23:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I've been informed I should have tried harder to be brief, so I've revised this posting. The original text can be found in a collapsed box below the revised summary.

    About a week before I made this section here, Indepthstory had made an edit to Odd Squad I felt introduced style issues. There was some back and forth, I left a message on their talk page explaining my thoughts (and asking them to use edit summaries), they removed it and came to my talk page to continue the conversation.

    This is where they started doing things that seemed like conduct issues. They opened by saying I'm misinterpreting the MOS (and/or that the MOS might not be important) and by bringing up unrelated edits of mine, some as old as a year ago or more, which they continued doing throughout (diff, diff, diff). They said I "could" make edits (but only in a certain way) and that I need to leave the article alone and tell them what edits should be made. One thing they said (diff) has me concerned they think Wikipedia consensus is achieved through canvassing. Further in the vein of the hounding-feeling way they were scrutinizing my edits, they noted the areas I frequently edit and asked why I'm even on Wikipedia and then basically said "answer the question" when I asked why it was related.

    I tried disengaging for several days, I tried explaining my concerns with their behavior. They have continued most of this, and it feels like they're unlikely to stop unless this comes out to letting them do what they want while other people don't raise concerns or ask questions or touch anything they've added or changed. Basically, their conduct is presenting issues when it comes to trying to discussing improving content they've made edits to. - Purplewowies (talk) 21:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Wordier original text posted 19:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    A little background: A bit over a week ago, I noticed an edit to Odd Squad by Indepthstory that added some things I thought seemed to go against the MOS without adequately explaining why (diff) (in particular, WP:OVERLINK and WP:SEMICOLON). Because of this, I did a partial revert (diff), trying to keep what I could while removing the overlinking and unwieldy semicolon constructions (I did this by opening the last revision before those edits and trying to add back what I thought could be kept).

    The next day, the same user added it back without clear explanation so I reverted it, assuming the user either didn't see or didn't understand why I made the revert, and explained on their talk page and suggested using clearer edit summaries could help others understand why they make edits (I avoided using a template like {{Uw-mos1}} or {{Uw-wrongsummary}} because I thought I could be more specific and gentle/friendly than the templates are). There was one more back and forth of them adding this kind of thing and me reverting them before I realized they'd removed my note on their talk page (well within their right) and left a note on my talk page in reply, a section which has since ballooned in size. At that point I tried to avoid reverting them again, treating it like a content dispute (at this point I've tried to move that aspect to the article's talk page)... but their comments on my talk page have raised concerns in me over their conduct such that I feel the real issue is there and I feel like I've exhausted my options in trying to address their conduct without administrator help, so I've decided to bring it here.

    In the discussion on my talk page, I've tried to get them to explain why they feel these aspects of the MOS should not be followed. In response, they've instead:

    (They also seemed to start editing pages I have on my watchlist out of nowhere (without looking over the pages in my watchlist, Babymetal (where one part of their edit was changed) and Cameron Boyce (where their edits were wholly reverted) come to mind), but that could be pure coincidence. Their edit summaries also haven't gotten any more descriptive of what they're actually doing in the edits they make, for the most part.)

    I've tried temporarily disengaging in an attempt to cool things down (avoiding editing Odd Squad and also backing off from the discussion and waiting a few days before noting I'd be making what felt like an uncontroversial edit), and I've tried explaining why their interactions with me (the hounding, the ownership behavior, the one thing they said that makes it sound like they want to canvass) concern me and/or are inappropriate behavior on Wikipedia (diff, diff). They have continued this behavior to some extent (scrutinizing unrelated edits of mine, ownership behavior in regards to their edits), and it feels like they're unlikely to stop unless this comes out to letting them do what they want while other people don't raise concerns or ask questions or touch anything they've added or changed. I don't know what else to do but raise the concern here. (Also, I tried to be brief, but apparently I suck at it (or else this issue can't be described any more succinctly?). Apologies? XP) - Purplewowies (talk) 19:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Please try harder to be brief. You lost me at the semicolon violations. EEng 08:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I really do suck at succinct sometimes, then. :-/ Even sat there after I'd typed it all out trying to figure out where to cut things out without losing the "meat" of the interaction (i.e. relevant context). I guess the short of it is that what started as a content dispute (in short: MOS deviations) seems--in my interpretation of what this user has said--to have pivoted into the ballpark of conduct issues (in short: scrutinizing my edits in a way that seems hounding-ish, ownership behavior, thing that sounds like they think Wikipedia consensus is reached through canvassing). Should I try again to revise down the original message I opened this section with, or would "trimming the fat" (if I manage to do so) be weird since it's already been up in its existing form for a day or so? - Purplewowies (talk) 09:34, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I don't know. I'd have to read the original to find out, and I'm not going to do that. To be blunt, if this is the way you've been trying to egage the other editor, I can appreciate why communication may have broken down. EEng 13:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      In that case, I'll try to see if I can't figure out how to condense it, then--today if I have time--and throw the original under a collapse or something so it's still there? In my own opinion, at least, most of my communication with the other editor (barring an outlier response or two) has at least been similar in length to their responses, though my own responses tended to be one edit and theirs tended to be three or four shorter edits back to back (which at one point left me needing to revise my already written response after an edit conflict to try to acknowledge their new message and indent level). - Purplewowies (talk) 17:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Well, I've tried revising it down as much as I could manage. I don't think I can trim much/any more without losing context (and/or diffs) I feel is relevant. - Purplewowies (talk) 21:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    user:Uwappa: refusal to engage with WP:BRD process, unfounded allegation of WP:NPA violation, unfounded vandalism allegation

    [edit]

    The content disagreement behind this report is trivial in the overall scope of Wikipedia (although the articles affected are subject to WP:MEDRS), but the editor behaviour is not. My reason to bring this case to ANI is that user:Uwappa rejects some basic principles of the project: WP:BRD means that a bold edit may be reverted to the status quo ante and goes on to say don't restore your bold edit, don't make a different edit to this part of the page, don't engage in back-and-forth reverting, and don't start any of the larger dispute resolution processes. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement. Despite having been reminded about BRD after their first immediate counter-revert, they responded to the reversion to the sqa with another counter-revert and, after another editor reinstated the sqa, counter-reverted again. At no stage did they attempt to engage in BRD discussion. Both I and the other editor attempted to engage with them at their talk page: Uwappa characterises my explanation as a personal attack. On another page, Uwappa reverted an edit where I suppressed the questioned material template, declaring it "vandalism" in the edit summary. I recognise the rubric at BRD that says BRD is optional, but complying with Wikipedia:Editing policy § Talking and editing and Wikipedia:Edit war is mandatory but Uwappa has done neither.

    I consider my escalating this to ANI to be a failure of negotiating skill on my part but, while Uwappa refuses to engage, I am left with no choice. Allowing a few days for logic to intervene has not been fruitful. With great reluctance, because Uwappa has made valuable contributions, I have to ask that they be blocked until they acknowledge and commit to respect the principles that underlie BRD, WP:CONSENSUS and WP:OWN.

    Diffs: (all timestamps UTC. NB that I am in England => UTC+00:00, Uwappa is in Australia => UTC+10:00 [probably])

    ---

    As of 11:48 (UTC) on 30/12, the live version of the template is the one that has consensus support. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Well, Uwappa hasn't edited on the project in 12 hours so it's pretty sage to assume they haven't seen this complaint yet. I'd like to hear their response and whether or not they are willing to collaborate before passing any judgment. Very through presentation of the dispute, easy to follow, so thank you for that. Liz Read! Talk! 20:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that is why I felt it important to make clear that our time zones are very widely spaced, which makes collaboration difficult in the best of circumstances. When they do see it, I would expect they will take some time offline to polish their response before posting it – and consequently it is likely to be as long again before I respond. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    User Douglas1998A

    [edit]

    Hello. User Douglas1998A has been creating or adding incorrect categories to pages. I first noticed this in November 2024 when they created Category:Portuguese-language American telenovelas and added it to Now Generation and América (Brazilian TV series), even though they are not American telenovelas. [14][15] The category was deleted but two months later I see that they created Category:Brazilian-American telenovelas and added the previously mentioned pages to this new category when they are only Brazilian telenovelas and not American ones. [16][17]

    This is not the only incorrect category they have added to pages. Today they created Category:Japanese-Brazilian telenovelas and added it to Belíssima, Morde & Assopra and two other pages, when they are not Japanese telenovelas, only Brazilian. [18][19].

    I should also note that they have been adding main categories to pages when they are already in a subcategory of the main category they add. [20][21][22]. I have left messages on their talk page but they have ignored them. I hope with this notice they will discuss their edits. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 21:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Categories can be a confusing area of the project for new editors to work in. As you stated, these new categories were just created earlier today, when did you leave a message on their User talk page explaining how categories work on the project? Liz Read! Talk! 22:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Two months ago I left this message that advised the user to visit the categorization guidelines page when they created the now deleted category Category:Portuguese-language American telenovelas. If the user chose not to read the guideline and continued to create incorrect categories, I don't know how else to help them.
    Here I explained subcategories and why not to add the main category when there is an existing subcategory. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 01:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This sounds like one of the many long-term category vandals we have, especially considering that they immediately jumped into category edits after account creation. The only one I know off the top of my head is Son of Zorn, but they mostly edit cartoon articles. wizzito | say hello! 22:39, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm thinking that the range 2804:14C:5B41:8000:0:0:0:0/51 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)) might be them. Edits go back to before the account's creation, and they have roughly the same interests (people and soap operas/telenovelas) wizzito | say hello! 23:39, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I also have suspicions that the user could be from that IP range from Minas Gerais, Brazil, based on their interests on creating categories and in Brazilian media. I also suspect that another user related to Douglas1998A could be MafiaBoy123. In September, I left this message for MafiaBoy123 because they added a wrong category to a page. I received a reply from MafiaBoy telling me not to edit pages related to Brazilian media because I am not from Brazil. MafiaBoy's user page also confirms they are from Minas Gerais, Brazil. Could this be a case of WP:SOCKPUPPET in which the user has two accounts in case one gets blocked, while also editing logged out? Telenovelafan215 (talk) 01:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you are suspecting sockpuppetry it would be best to open a case at WP:SPI rather than wonder about it here. I've asked the editor to please come to ANI and participate in this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 02:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While I do have suspicions of sockpuppetry, the main point of this discussion is Douglas1998A's repeated addition of incorrect categories and their lack of interest in discussing the matter. I was just adding my thoughts about the IP range that @Wizzito mentioned. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 03:30, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hey, I've never used this account and I'm being falsely accused of being behind this user? That's not fair! I demand answers, because I am being accused because of another user's mistakes. I don't know any Douglas1998A and if I were you, I suggest you change this shared IP policy once and for all, because I'm being accused of a mistake I never made.
    And for some time now I've been having problems because I'm using the same IP as someone else. I demand to know: what did this Douglas1998A do to cause me to be unfairly accused? Mainly because my name isn't Douglas, it's MAVIO. I am extremely scared by these accusations. Whatever this Douglas1998A did, I have nothing to do with it. I demand answers, because I'm tired of having to pay for another user's mistake... MafiaBoy123 (talk) 03:32, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And yes, that includes the fact that sometimes I was blocked without even knowing why or what I did wrong. I'm angry and tired because because another publisher messes up and because I have the same IP, I end up paying the price. I'm exhausted and exhausted because of what this Douglas1998A did. This is ridiculous, I always followed the rules and now I have to go through this humiliation of being accused because of another user's mistake? Is this serious? MafiaBoy123 (talk) 03:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And since it's about making a serious accusation, I have an accusation here: for several months I have been the victim of harassment by Telenovelafan215 because I try to edit honestly in relation to the series here in Brazil. and he even threatened me to report the Wikipedia admins just because he didn't agree with what I said.
    It seems that only he can edit the soap opera pages here on Wikipedia and no one else, because otherwise another editor (which is me in this case) is considered a vandal and is threatened with being banned from Wikipedia.
    And do you want proof of what I say? Every time I edit something about soap operas, it doesn't take long for Telenovelafan215 to go there and revert it without even telling me. And there were two times that Telenovelafan215 did this (with the soap operas As Aventuras de Poliana and
    Volta por Cima). It's been a while since Telenovelafan215 haunts me, because in his mind, only he can edit articles about soap operas here on Wikipedia.
    Telenovelafan215, I'm fed up with your harassment and persecution against me. And this accusation of sockpuppetry is the final straw. MafiaBoy123 (talk) 03:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry to be using this space to vent, but I'm tired of being accused by other people, like Telenovelafan215 because of other editors' mistakes.
    And you Telenovelafan215 crossed the line by accusing me of the actions of another user. Just because I share the IP with another user (something I never asked for), do you think I'm behind the Douglas1998A account?
    Do you think I asked to have the same IP as Douglas1998A? NO, I never wanted to have the same IP as another Wikipedia editor. MafiaBoy123 (talk) 04:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's because of this kind of situation that I'm thinking about giving up being a Wikipedia editor.
    This is unfair what is happening to me. And for the love of GOD, I don't know any Douglas1998A!!! MafiaBoy123 (talk) 04:09, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @MafiaBoy123 You have not made any edits to As Aventuras de Poliana with your account, only the IP range has. On Volta por Cima, at the time you had added an incorrect category to which I explained in my edit summary and on your talk page why it was reverted. [23][24]
    I have left a total of three messages on your talk page. Seen here and here. I am not sure how that is harassment. I opened a civil conversation regarding your edits and explained why I reverted them, but you took it as an attack and assured that I "don't know 1%" about soap operas that are shown in Brazil and suggested to stop editing pages about Brazilian television. Additionally you left replies in all caps. Don't play victim. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 04:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You accused me of using an account that I don't even use. You crossed the line by accusing me of using an account I've never seen in my life. You accused without proof and you know that words have consequences, man. I'm one step away from taking you to court over this unproven accusation. I have integrity and what you did was ridiculous. I've never needed to practice sockpuppetry in my life and you think you have the right to accuse me without proof? I'm irritated by your petty attitude. MafiaBoy123 (talk) 04:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @MafiaBoy123 By saying you will take me to court you have just broken the Wikipedia policy WP:THREAT: do not post legal threats on Wikipedia. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 04:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    wizzito | say hello!, do you know why I know I don't have a sock puppet account here on Wikipedia? Because if I had, I would be looking for a way to not be identified by moderation, not coming here to protest against the fact that I'm being blamed for another editor's mistake... MafiaBoy123 (talk) 04:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Telenovelafan215, it's because you accused me of something I never did. Explain something to me: why did you accuse me of using a sock puppet account here on Wikipedia?
    You may not be Brazilian, so I'll tell you: what you did (which is to accuse me of being Douglas1998A) here in Brazil constitutes the crimes of defamation and slander MafiaBoy123 (talk) 04:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Aaaaaand blocked for violating WP:NLT. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll point out that @MafiaBoy123 has a history of conveniently coming to the defence of "acquaintances" on Wikipedia whenever their edits get reverted or they receive a talk page warning, going back several years: Special:Diff/991707154, Special:Diff/1080311457, Special:Diff/1116281083, Special:Diff/1212354761, Special:Diff/1212378322, Special:Diff/1216912983, Special:Diff/1223030125
    Are they a sockmaster? Dunno for sure, but it's definitely WP:DUCK behaviour. RachelTensions (talk) 05:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The last bunch having the sister defense, too. Interesting. Note I have unblocked after this appears to retract the legal threat. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on the diffs @RachelTensions provided, it looks like MafiaBoy123 also has the tendency of accusing users of harassment and threats whenever there are concerns over their edits, seen here Special:Diff/1216913271, Special:Diff/1223030125, Special:Diff/1266334881. They also believe that only they are allowed to edit certain pages because they have more knowledge than others, WP:OWN: Special:Diff/1245774608 and Special:Diff/1257950410. This may become a reportable incident should it continue. Douglas1998A, the user I had opened this discussion for, has yet to engage in any talk page discussions since creating their account two months ago. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 06:50, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User Douglas1998A has continued to edit and has yet to participate in this discussion. Is this WP:NOTHERE: Little or no interest in working collaboratively?--Telenovelafan215 (talk) 15:30, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [edit]

    See here: [25] Telenovelafan215 (talk) 04:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @The Bushranger, imo, the block is a bit hasty. There is an open discussion on their talk page about it which could have been steered to have them backing down from the threat. This is an editor who had contributing in the last few months. – robertsky (talk) 05:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If he had only made the initial "I'm one step away from taking you to court" comment, I'd agree - but then he detailed (what he believes to be?) Brazilian law on the matter (what you did...here in Brazil constitutes the crimes of defamation and slander), and in response to Liz's warning made no comment that he wasn't making a legal threat in his reply. If he acknolwedges he isn't making one, then the block can be lifted immediately by anyone. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:18, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well... the unblock request doesn't inspire confidence. – robertsky (talk) 05:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not especially, but the follow-up conversation did seem to retract it, so I've unblocked. The future will tell. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Is this MidAtlanticBaby?

    [edit]
    WP:DENY. C F A 22:17, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    On the block list, I saw a bunch of socks blocked, the earliest one I will hang myself on 12:36 December 21 2024. From December 21 to the 30th, the LTA created 36 sockpuppets. I’m concerned that this is MidAtlanticBaby because these accounts follow the same behavior; spamming user talk pages with purely disruptive material 2603:8080:D03:89D4:8017:75ED:C03C:6633 (talk) 22:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Incivility in Jeju Air

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    I'm going to close this discussion. The editor has been blocked from editing Jeju Air Flight 2216 and its talk page which is where the problems here originated. I think that there has been less than ideal behavior from several editors in this dispute. Right now, Westwind273 has primarily been posting on their own User talk page and expresses the desire to move on from this. They have been instructed not to remove comments from article talk pages. We don't demand apologies from editors we just ask that they stop any disruptive behavior. I think all parties need to stop provoking each other, drop the stick and refocus on editing articles. Liz Read! Talk! 03:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Westwind273 (talk · contribs) was gently told off in Talk:Jeju Air Flight 2216#Unneeded airports built in dangerous locations about not making WP:FORUM statements. Instead they WP:BATTLEGROUNDed with editors whom they engaged with in an extremely uncivil manner while making false accusations and engaging in WP:IDNHT. Amazingly following a warning by another user that they would be taken to ANI they started removing their comments without explanation and since then reverted. Regardless, I am posting this to ensure that they take the hint and to demand action, seeing that it is not the first air incident] they have been caught for such WP:NOTHERE behavior. Borgenland (talk) 02:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Diffs: [26] [27] [28] Borgenland (talk) 02:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Update, user had been reverting their comments in talk without consent of other editors involved. Borgenland (talk) 03:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And left this uncivil note [29] on another Seefooddiet (talk · contribs)’s TP. Borgenland (talk) 03:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That was my user page even, not my talk page. Strange seefooddiet (talk) 03:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Pardon my reflex. Borgenland (talk) 03:15, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No worries, I had the same reaction lol. I instinctually checked my tp and was surprised it was on my user page instead seefooddiet (talk) 03:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Seems they’re pretending you didn’t tell them off personally [30]. Borgenland (talk) 03:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And more WP:IDNHT after yet another warning on their own TP [31]. Borgenland (talk) 03:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Note that the editor has been removing other peoples' comments' forom Talk:Jeju Air Flight 2216, and has been edit-warring four times to attempt to do so. I've given them an only warning. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A parting aspersion [32]. Borgenland (talk) 03:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And more [33]. Borgenland (talk) 03:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For more context, they've engaged in open insults to other people previously.
    [34][35] seefooddiet (talk) 03:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They deleted both these insults after making them to hide evidence. Consistent pattern. seefooddiet (talk) 03:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For context, there's a discussion on their conduct ongoing on User talk:Westwind273#December 2024. In it, they keep leveling an accusation at me, and deleting my response to the accusation. seefooddiet (talk) 04:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They made another WP:NPA. See [36]. Borgenland (talk) 04:28, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And doubled down with WP:IDNHT after being warned again: [37] [38] [39] [40]. Borgenland (talk) 05:17, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    This editor has a significant problem with WP:GAME as well, specifically in regards to WP:NOTAFORUM. They profess to know of that, and are likely genuinely aware of it, but the following pattern of talk page comments gives me the impression that they are mostly interested in venting an opinion, with no article improvements suggested: [41] [42] (the one in question here) [43] [44]. These aren't the majority of their talk page comments but are a significant minority. It's only due to WP:AGF that we can assume they are related to improving the articles in question but had this user not had any other edits, these would be promptly removed per NOTAFORUM. This pattern of conduct is problematic because it hinders others' abilities to engage in the threads, especially combined with their unwarranted blaming of others for not magically discerning their intentions, as happened in this incident.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Westwind273 does show a consistent pattern of WP:ABF. I asked them to clarify how these were relevant to the discussion and they demanded to know why I was attacking them. I don't know if administrator action is fully warranted but a 24 hour touch-grass break is probably a good idea in my opinion. guninvalid (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In all honesty, I am surprised that an 18-year old account shows WP:NOTHERE behavior I'd expect to encounter otherwise in newbie accounts. Borgenland (talk) 08:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They've effectively said they're ok with being banned. [45][46]. Honestly given the lack of remorse over the behavior and continual lack of understanding of why it was poor, despite numerous people all explaining it over and over, I'd argue some kind of block would be helpful. I'd argue it's a WP:NOTHERE situation; despite their claims of just trying to be a good editor, they keep disruptively engaging with others to the point that it's needlessly distracting, and refuse to modify their behavior when asked to. seefooddiet (talk) 09:04, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I nearly forgot but could this be a Tyhaliburton sock? I am starting to recall both of them making uncivil and condescending statements. Borgenland (talk) 09:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Block this account indef as NOTHERE 2603:8080:D03:89D4:90C8:7FFC:E377:47B8 (talk) 17:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have reported User:Westwind273 to AIV as NOTHERE 2603:8080:D03:89D4:90C8:7FFC:E377:47B8 (talk) 17:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Borgenland: Doubtful, as the user's history stems all the way back to 2006. --MuZemike 17:45, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've issued a WP:PBLOCK from the accident article and its talk page. This is without prejudice to any other admin taking further action against this editor. Mjroots (talk) 17:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If it’s a sock, bring in a CU clerk 2603:8080:D03:89D4:90C8:7FFC:E377:47B8 (talk) 17:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A block from a single talk page seems lukewarm to me. They openly insult other people, there's no sign they'll stop doing so in future because they've never acknowledged wrongdoing or expressed regret, and nothing is done. [47][48] seefooddiet (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Recently blocked user asking to "escalate the matter"

    [edit]
    Towed away. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:Ross Ah Tow was recently blocked by User:PhilKnight for repeatedly adding incomprehensible short descriptions to articles. The user then asked to escalate the matter, and, when I tried to explain the situation to them, replied that I see you are incompetent and you don't know how to work the system. What should be done now? Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:57, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Looks like a WP:CIR issue. Simonm223 (talk) 14:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think they're trolling. They can be ignored. PhilKnight (talk) 14:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've revoked their talk page access. Cullen328 (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Editorialising

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    On the pages Uluru Statement from the Heart and Indigenous Voice to Parliament, User:State Regulatory Authority has made numerous edits editorialising content since 19 December and has not engaged with talk discussions about the need to keep a NPOV. e.g. [49], [50], [51], [52] and [53]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Safes007 (talk • contribs) 01:10, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    This and this aren't great on the face of it. Daniel (talk) 02:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've given them a "stop edit-warring" (because that's what it is, among the other issues) final warning. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:17, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Isn’t the username itself a violation for pretending to be some agency? Borgenland (talk) 10:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I was about to say, at a minimum it should be a soft block with a note to pick something else. spryde | talk 17:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Please note that this edit takes the article-space statement from the Indigenous Voice to Parliament article describing a body intended to recognise Indigenous Australians as "the first people of Australia" (quotes in original) and adds a wikilink from 'first people' to the article master race. Surely equating Australia's Indigenous / first people, a historically disempowered and disenfranchised group, with the Nazi concept of Aryan supremacy in article space and within a quotation (thereby assigning this Nazi implication to the Referendum Council being quoted) calls for more than a warning over edit warring? 1.141.198.161 (talk) 06:48, 1 January 2025 (UTC) Adding that this edit adds wikilinks that characterise the failure of the referendum to patriotism an opposition to racism, but highly questionable characterisations. This user appears WP:NOTHERE to me. 1.141.198.161 (talk) 07:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Similar edits by IP address 120.18.129.151 which has a block on other pages have also been made. Safes007 (talk) 07:20, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That smells somewhat of WP:LOUTSOCK, doesn't it? Anyway, given a very stern warning to the user in question here. We'll see how they respond. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The block on other pages is due to a range block, not that particular IP. - Bilby (talk) 08:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    John40332 reported by CurryTime7-24

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    Moved from WP:AIV
     – ToBeFree (talk) 14:12, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    John40332 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – On Psycho (1960 film) (diff): account is being used only for promotional purposes; account is evidently a spambot or a compromised account. User's recent edits have been dedicated almost invariably to inserting links in classical music-related articles to an obscure sheet music site. Behavior appeared to be WP:REFSPAM and WP:SPA. Personal attempts to curb this behavior or reach a compromise were rejected by user. Further attempts to engage with them at WT:CM resulted in WP:ICANTHEARYOU, despite three other editors informing user that their edits appeared to be spam or some kind of advocacy. CurryTime7-24 (talk) 08:50, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Not a bot and not spamming, you just keep WP:HOUNDING me repeatedly, I cited sources to the publisher of the books in question. You appear to suffer from WP:OWN and act like I need your consent to edit the articles you feel that belong to you. You also know I'm not a compromised account, you spam Assume_good_faith on your reverts but you're mostly bullying other editors into submission.
    You've been asked to stop disrupting editing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24#January_2025 , and continue to harass any edits that touch "your" articles.
    You also keep saying I add citation to obscure music sites, just because you don't know something doesn't make it obscure. Additionally, you are the only person raising this as an issue because you're extremely controlling of the articles, you don't own Wikipedia and hopefully some other editor or admin can remind you of that. John40332 (talk) 09:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you claiming that SheetMusicX is a reliable source for these articles? If so then someone (it may be me but I don't guarantee it) should take it to the reliable sources noticeboard. I note that several editors have queried this, not just CurryTime7-24. John40332 is clearly not a spambot or compromised account, so please avoid over-egging the pudding. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    It is reliable and listed with other respectable publishers, it's the homepage of the Canadian music publishing house Edition Zeza, their books are part of the National Library Collections, WorldCat.org shows their books in libraries around the world etc, I shouldn't even have to dig this far because 1 editor decided he WP:OWN Wikipedia. The links I had included provided relevant information about the articles I was editing (orchestration, dates, duration etc). Cited information from a publisher of said work, which is exactly what WP:SOURCEDEF suggests doing. John40332 (talk) 18:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The editor's history does seem suspicious. From 2014 to 2023 they made a total of 24 edits to article space, almost all of which were to Charlie Siem and Sasha Siem. Then after more than a year of no edits, in the last 5 weeks they have made 38 edits to article space, of which all except three added a reference to sheetmusicx.com. This is a commercial site that sells sheet music. As far as I can see, every reference added was a link to a page that sells a particular piece of sheet music. This certainly seems like WP:REFSPAM. CodeTalker (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    So is the problem that I'm actively contributing now, or that the cited sources aren't good enough? You guys are grasping at straws at this point.user:CurryTime7-24 added links to commercial sites diff1 , such as to Fidelio Music (to which he appears to be an affiliate) and yet no one raises a flag. Even when I added a source without removing his, he removed mine diff2 to keep only his link to Fidelio Music. John40332 (talk) 19:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no "you guys" here. You have exactly the same status, as a volunteer editor, as I do. I have no idea who CurryTime7-24 is, or whether that editor is an affiliate. I just know about reliable sources and that we should not be linking to any commercial site, except possibly to the original publisher of a work. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:COIBot has compiled a page, Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/Local/sheetmusicx.com of edits with links to this website. This list was not created by CurryTime7-24 but by a bot looking for instances of conflict-of-interests. All of the problems you are concerned about, John40332, would not exist if you would just stop posting links to this website. If you would agree to stop referring to sheetmusicx.com, you wouldn't be "hounded" or be defending yourself and we could close this complaint. Can you agree to that editing restriction? And, if you can't, then why are you insisting on linking to this particular website? Liz Read! Talk! 02:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      Because it's a valid source according to:
      WP:REPUTABLE - "Articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources"
      WP:SOURCEDEF - The publisher of the work (and not only the first ever publisher, any reputable publisher of a work)
      WP:PUBLISHED - "Published means, for Wikipedia's purposes, any source that was made available to the public in some form."

    Interestingly, "someone" (and I'm not saying it's CurryTime7-24) came to my talk page yesterday to write "kill yourself", I can only think of 1 person who is hounding me this much though, but that doesn't seem to be taken seriously. John40332 (talk) 07:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    That's not "interesting", that's despicable; as is your insinuation. As for sheetmusicx as as source: for what? That they published some work? Why is that noteworthy? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    As a source for information about the work. Yes it's despicable, and as I said, no one takes it seriously, I'm not insinuating anything, admins can look into the IP themselves. John40332 (talk) 08:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    So, you would prefer that this dispute continue on, which could lead to sanctions for you, rather than simply stop using this website as a reference? To me, when I see that kind of behavior, it's typically a sign of a paid editor. Liz Read! Talk! 09:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no dispute, it's a reliable source and user:CurryTime7-24 makes a fuss about it because of his WP:OWN syndrome and potential WP:COI with his affiliation with Fidelio Music.
    Why are you against a source that complies with WP:RELIABILITY ? John40332 (talk) 09:35, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Persistent addition of unsourced content by 86.21.135.95

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    86.21.135.95 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to articles, continued after final warning & hasn't responded to warnings. Examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 18:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I've given them a second warning. Galaxybeing (talk) 04:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Editor may lack a mechanism to communicative effectively

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    Basaatw generates all of their prolific Talk comments at Talk:2024 United States drone sightings with an LLM. They've indicated [54] this is the only way they are able to communicate and, when probed, seem to have committed [55] to exclusively using the LLM to respond to other editors' questions and comments.

    The issue is that the AI-generated Talk comments are so contorted and unnatural that they have the effect -- and I don't think this is Basaatw's intent -- of diverting all discussion to the unusual writing style of the comments as opposed to the actual content of what Basaatw is trying to express (e.g. [56], [57], etc.).

    As I hinted to Basaatw here [58], if they are unable to communicate using unaided cognition, and the technical adjunct they're using to assist them is also ineffective at communicating in a way in which our OI editors can interact, their contributions are having the effect of being disruptive (and, again, I don't think that's purposeful). We've generally accepted that editors must possess some method "to communicate effectively" as a condition of editing.

    I am WP:INVOLVED in this article so am not a good evaluator of the situation or potential remedies. Chetsford (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Courtesy pinging @Anne drew: and @BusterD: whose edits I linked. Chetsford (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    What I find a little frustrating is not knowing whether these are Basaatw's original thoughts rendered through a large language model (e.g. ChatGPT), or if I'm really just wasting my time conversing with a software program. I'm not against the careful use of LLMs to edit articles or even to contribute to discussions, but if your comments are long and numerous, of questionable quality, and are clearly AI generated, responding to them becomes a waste of editors' time. – Anne drew (talk · contribs) 19:40, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think a number of good thoughts were used when you posted over at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard § Humans sharing accounts with machines. I haven’t looked at this accused users posts yet, but I think distributive or unproductive editing or correspondence should be handled the same regardless if a LLM was used to assist the user or not. There might be a room for an ounce of extra AGF (but not much) similar to what we might extend to a user who is using a translator because their English isn’t very good. But at the end of the day, using a standard translator or an advanced LLM is not an excuse for being disruptive and this should be treaded as such. TiggerJay (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh my goodness, I just took a look --- boy does that ever QUACK like LLM! Such that the responses seem to generally sound apologetic in tone, but but their further edits do not actually correlate to their apology. Looking at this apology they still continued to break references, abit in a different way. At the time of that apology all of the references were good [59] but then after a series of edit, the page was left with 4 broken references. Regardless of the LLM aspects, this is still a disruptive editor. TiggerJay (talk) 22:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    If this editor really cannot communicate without an LLM then their English is not good enough to write anything in Wikipedia articles, so they should be blocked per WP:CIR. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Using LLMs is just the user's problem now. The user's account was created in 2006 but the first edits appear in 2016. The second contribution was used to create Scott Binsack, summarily deleted as promotional by User:DGG; the warning from User:Kudpung is still the top entry on the current User talk:Basaatw. The user's deleted contribs show three deleted drafts. The second of those was Draft:Franklin Boggs, which was deleted by User:JJMC89 for clear copyright violations. The third was Draft:Parsec Incorporated, an admitted COI draft which was speedy deleted as G11 by User:Jimfbleak. These contributions were over four years ago. Seven years ago Basaatw created Sidney Simon (which may also be a COI case) but looks quite notable on my first pass. It's hard to ignore the many revdelled versions (diff) which were apparent copyright violations as well. After a three year inactive period, in October the account came back to make User:Basaatw/sandbox/Jamie Lackey. This last Sunday, the user shows up with their shiny new ChatGPT and since then, that's the only sort of edit they've made. BusterD (talk) 22:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    My popup shows this account has made 157 edits since 2006, and my narrative above discounts ~75% of those. BusterD (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not sure what should be done here but I just wanted to mention that the use of LLM is not always be due to poor language skills, there can be physical disabilities that would prompt the use of this technology to communicate. I gather that the editor has not been specific on why they rely on LLM but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet. Regardless of the reason though, if this use of a AI assistance is becoming disruptive, I can see that action might need to be taken. Liz Read! Talk! 01:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "there can be physical disabilities that would prompt the use of this technology to communicate" Yes, that's an important reminder. I'm inclined to believe whatever the ultimate resolution is, it impose the lightest impediment on the editor's participation that's possible. Chetsford (talk) 02:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Just adding that if their original user page is accurate then they are almost certainly a native English speaker in their 70s. Photos of Japan (talk) 10:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've requested on their User talk page that they come and participate in this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 07:21, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      they Selfstudier (talk) 14:45, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      Hi;
      Thank you for inviting me to this discussion. When Chetsford and Liz Read reached out, I came here to engage because I believe in Wikipedia's collaborative spirit.
      I want to clarify my use of tools in contributing to Wikipedia. I use LLM technology to draft, under WP:TOOLS, which encourages editors to use resources to improve their work. I take the time to review and edit the content myself, ensuring it reflects my understanding and complies with community standards.
      Editors have raised concerns about my handling of references. While I acknowledge this as an area for improvement, WP:COLLAB reminds us that none of us is perfect. To improve my referencing, I'm reviewing feedback and welcome specific examples of where I can do better.
      I value being part of Wikipedia and contributing to its mission. Being included in this discussion shows how open communication helps us all work better together. I welcome specific feedback about my contributions and am committed to meeting community expectations while fostering a collaborative spirit.
      Best always Randall N. Brock (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      Please stop using LLMs for your responses. Honestly, it's annoying, to say the least. --MuZemike 15:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      I use LLM technology to draft, under WP:TOOLS, which encourages editors to use resources to improve their work. I take the time to review and edit the content myself, ensuring it reflects my understanding and complies with community standards. Could you explain how you reviewed WP:TOOLS and how it encourages llm use? CMD (talk) 15:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Proposed CBAN on use of certain technological adjuncts by editor

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    Noting, as I previously have, that I am INVOLVED, I propose Basaatw be subject to a WP:CBAN on adding content to Wikipedia created by LLMs, NLP pipelines, procedural generators, rule-based chatbots, or similar technological adjuncts, and that this ban extend to include both mainspace articles and Talk pages. Chetsford (talk) 22:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I'm at NOTHERE with this person. They are trolling multiple admins. We commonly indef for less than that. BusterD (talk) 22:52, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I would agree somewhere between NOTHERE and CIR. It doesn't matter how you use the tools, if you're being unconstructive, the LLM is at best just an excuse, which we don't really care much about after multiple attempts have been made to bring correction. It is right up there with bad edits using a mobile device, it can be the reason for the mistake, but that doesn't mean we just let people continue to use that excuse, instead they need to step up with their use of preview/etc., and be responsible for their own actions. TiggerJay (talk) 23:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    User: 2600:1004:B253:C3D5:0:F:EA83:6701 - POV pushing?

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    Blocked. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:56, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    2600:1004:(continued) has been putting Islamophobic/bigoted comments on multiple talk pages [60] [61], then when confronted, responded with an NPA violation.[62] Was just gonna go home to my computer and give some warnings from Twinkle, but was suggested to bring this up here. First time bringing something up at ANI so sorry if I screwed up. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 20:30, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    In my opinion, the aforementioned IP is clearly NOTHERE and should be dealt as such. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 20:33, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The IP range User:2600:1004:B253:C3D5:0:0:0:0/64 has been blocked for 31 hours. Liz Read! Talk! 00:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:Historian5328

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    I have been dealing with persistent additions of unreferenced numbers to Somali Armed Forces, Somali Navy, etc for some time. Rolling them back - they're never supported by sources that validate the data, or the sources are distorted.

    In the last couple of days a new user, User:Historian5328 has also started showing this behaviour. But in [63] this edit he's entering fantasy territory, saying the Somali Armed Forces are equipped with the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II, which has never been exported beyond the United States Air Force. I would request that any interested administrator consider this account for blocking. Kind regards and Happy New Year, Buckshot06 (talk) 21:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Editor clearly has some serious WP:CIR issues, given this WP:MADEUP stuff, and using...let's say non-reliable sources elsewhere, without responding to any of the notices on their talk page. I've pblocked them from articlespace so they can come here and explain themselves. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Just noting that the editor's username is User:Historian5328, not User:Historian 5328 and they were informed of this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 00:40, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    In the same regard, I would kindly request that any interested administrators review User_talk:YZ357980, who has been warned over and over and over again about adding unsourced and completely made up material (Somali Navy for example, consisting of 3,500 personnel..) Buckshot06 (talk) 03:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I see you corrected their username in this report after I mentioned the mistake. Liz Read! Talk! 07:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    A reminder that the arbitration committee has designated the Horn of Africa a contentious topic, so don’t be afraid to lay down a CT advisory template for either user. 2600:1011:B32F:11B9:C826:BD54:45DF:3286 (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Threats of off-wiki action and WP:PA

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    It looks like this situation has been resolved. Automelon is warned not to make legal threats or to blank other editor's draft articles. Liz Read! Talk! 03:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Users have traded personal attacks and thinly-veiled legal threats on an (unrelated?) users talk page here and here. Both users appear to be WP:NOTHERE. cyberdog958Talk 01:56, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Regarding these issues, my thinly veiled legal threats are mainly a scare tactic. This user is impersonating the creator of the game War Brokers, and is threating to ban a player. We have discovered the identity of the impersonator on the offical War Brokers discord, and request that this account (Joja15) be somehow restricted so that they cannot make false claims and impersonate the real, and legitimate Joja15. Thank you Automelon (talk) 02:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Ahem. WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA and WP:NLT apply to ALL users, including those who fancy that Wikipedia is a proper venue for furthering off-wiki feuds. I strongly recommend you review those policies and comply with them in the future. Ravenswing 02:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Issue has been resolved, with the impersonator revealing himself. Sorry for this strange issue Automelon (talk) 02:28, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    JoJa15 has been blocked for impersonating someone else's online username (while not another Wikpedian, impersonating someone known primarily by an online handle is still not on). Automelon has been warned not to make legal threats. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Walls of text

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    Please block Special:Contributions/2601:647:6510:25D9:D426:7245:BE4D:A179/64 for ad nauseam WP:WALLS at Talk:Jehovah. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    As a first measure, I blocked the /64 for 31 hours for disruptive editing. That covers most of the disrupting IPs. Maybe wait a bit before seeing if further measures needed. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 03:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not comfortable at my level of experience blocking a /48. Other admins are welcome to increase the range if they feel it is necessary. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 03:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    The IP promised to never repent at [64]. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:33, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    The talkpage will likely need semi-protection, as the individual is changing IPs. GoodDay (talk) 03:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Yup, it seems they are upon a /48 lease. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    tgeorgescu, I don't see that you alerted them to this discussion at ANI. I looked at the talk page for the IP they primarily used and there were warnings but no ANI notice. Liz Read! Talk! 06:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi, Liz, I did inform the IP of this ANI thread, but only once, not in three places. See User talk:2601:647:6510:25D9:D426:7245:BE4D:A179. tgeorgescu (talk) 07:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, thanks for trying. It is admittedly hard to communicate with IP editors whose accounts jump around. Liz Read! Talk! 07:17, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Yup, my two cents were that only the last used IP could be the correct one for issuing such a notification. tgeorgescu (talk) 07:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not seeing any recent edits from the /48 other than from the /64, except a single edit from 2601:647:6510:4ceb:ed9a:4797:9b0a:bd70 about 4.5 days ago. I have no qualms with blocking a /48 if necessary and/or semiprotecting the targetted talkpage where they are being disruptive/evading. But I'd want to see stronger evidence that the /64 block isn't sufficient. DMacks (talk) 07:39, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    A partial block from that single page for the /48 would work, it is vanishingly unlikely that anyone else on that range would want to edit that one talkpage out of 7 million. Black Kite (talk) 10:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Vandalism, sockpuppetry and bad redirects from User:NamayandeBidokht / User:12shahriyari

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    Despite warnings, this editor is removing sections from village articles and creating a string of redirects (to WP namespace) and continued same behaviour with a different account. I'm reporting here because as well as bans being in order someone will need to fix those redirects. ---- D'n'B-📞 -- 11:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    And while we are here, can someone also help move back Wikipedia:Bahmanabad-e Jadid back into mainspace. It's blocking me from making that move. Adamtt9 (talk) 11:48, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1266865686"