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Requested move at Talk:Italian mafia operations in Atlantic City#Requested move 4 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Italian mafia operations in Atlantic City#Requested move 4 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Killarnee (talk) 23:41, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel#Requested move 4 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel#Requested move 4 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Hard-coded BLP violation in the content assessment

Can the field for Serial, mass, and spree killers on the content assessment be recoded to something else to avoid a BLP violation. For some individuals or cases in which there was a mass killing, the coding is "serial killer=yes". This constitutes a BLP violation for those who are not serial killers, but are included in the list for other reasons. It may seem a minor point, but there is a difference between a serial killer and - for example - someone who causes mass death through other means and with other motives. To avoid such a blatant BLP violation, the coding on this field should be changed. - SchroCat (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@SchroCat Are you complaining about the existence of the task force as it applies to people or are you complaining about the actual parameter name? I don't think "serial killer task force" is much better. PARAKANYAA (talk) 15:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
The actual coding "serial killer=yes". Even as a supposedly "hidden" code, it still constitutes a BLP violation Renaming it as "Serial, mass, spree" would solve the problem, as would other possibilities. - SchroCat (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

what about Akanksha Dubey(Bhojpuri actress) murder case? What is the latest develpoment?Can anyone provide any info?

Akanksha Dubey suicide case: Family alleges foul play, lawyer says she was murdered Bhojpuri actress Akanksha Dubey passed away on March 26, 2023. While it is reported that she died by suicide, her family has alleged foul play. Bhojpuri actress Akanksha Dubey is no more. The actress passed away on March 26, 2023. She was found hanging in a hotel room on the said date. Her postmortem report claims that while the actress was not in an inebriated state, 20 ml of an unknown liquid had been found inside her stomach. She also had injury marks on her wrist and the mucous membrane of her stomach was choked. The late actress' mother, Madhu Dubey, has held two people responsible for her daughter's demise. She has accused Samar Singh and his brother Sanjay Singh of Akanksha's murder. Now, the late actress' family has alleged foul play. And Akanksha's lawyer, Shashank Shekhar Tripathi, too, has claimed that the actress was murdered. AKANKSHA DUBEY'S LAWYER MAKES SHOCKING ALLEGATIONS According to PTI, Akanksha Dubey's lawyer, Shashank Shekhar Tripathi, has written a letter to UP Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath and has demanded a CBI probe into this matter. According to the late actress' lawyer, Akanksha was murdered. He also claimed that despite Akanksha's mother's insistence that cremation should happen after the postmortem report, she was forcibly cremated.

Akanksha Dubey suicide case: Police on lookout for man who spent 17 mins in her room before her demise AKANKSHA DUBEY NO MORE Akanksha Dubey was reportedly in Varanasi for the shoot of an upcoming project. Post-filming, the actress headed to the Sarnath Hotel there. She was found dead in her hotel room. The Bhojpuri actress made her debut in the industry with Meri Jung Mera Faisla. She was also seen in Mujhse Shadi Karogi (Bhojpuri), Veeron Ke Veer and Fighter King, among others. Akanksha managed to carve a niche in the industry with her acting skills at a young age. 2405:201:401B:721E:D4DC:33B6:D7F7:8884 (talk) 18:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have an article about Akanksha Dubey. This WikiProject is concerned with article about Crime and Criminal Biographies, so would not normally concern itself with articles about a person's death or suicide as a suicide is not normally considered a crime - as it is hard to imprison a dead person. If there are suspicious circumstances surrounding a death that is alleged to be a suicide, Wikipedia guidelines for writing about suspects advised against writing an article until there is a conviction secured. Your best source of information in this case is probably the news media, not Wikipedia as Wikipedia is not a news website. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:42, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

What to do with British crime project template?

We discussed this template a while ago (several times actually) and since all articles that would be under their scope are under ours, and that project have not been active in many years, and given the scoping issues (it is overlapping with us and UK, nothing unique) I don't think there's anything with it that needs to stick around. We can just leave their project pages as defunct but interesting archives, but the continued existence of their talk page banner annoys me, since even to this day well meaning users will tag new articles with that very defunct project instead of this one.

Should I simply redirect it to the main crime & crimebio template? That will make duplicates annoying, but it would handily deal with the non zero amount of articles that are tagged under that dead project and not this one. That is also how the new WP Firefighting project handled it, as a merge between two old defunct projects. PARAKANYAA (talk) 14:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@PARAKANYAA: project page currently advised using "... Wikipedia:WikiProject United Kingdom and Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography ..." Looking at the talk pages that link to the British crime template, there are about 1,700 articles. I suspect many of these already have a Crime and Criminal Biography banner. While redirecting to the Crime and Criminal Biography banner would bring these articles into this WikiProject, I wonder if having a human, or a bot, visit the articles that are linked and change or merge the banners might be a better solution. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 05:47, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
@Cameron Dewe For now I'll just remove them when I see them. Maybe I'll do an WP:AWB run at it at some point. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:06, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA: Today, I have been looking at pages linked to Template:WikiProject British crime and editing some articles talk pages to remove the defunct banner template and replace it with Wikipedia:WikiProject United Kingdom or Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, or both of them, where these banners are missing and appropriate to add. After editing about thirty articles it looks like more than half the articles already have a Crime and Criminal Biography banner, but many are missing a WikiProject United Kingdom banner, but most of these might still have a more specific country or regional geography banner like England, Scotland or a county banner. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 06:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA: I have now gone through and edited the talk pages of about 1,700 WikiProject British crime articles that were transcluding the Template:WikiProject British crime to remove this template and added the WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography Template to their talk pages, if it was not already present. I also added the WikiProject United Kingdom banner to many of the pages, because it was often not present either. Looking at what pages are left linked to the British crime template, I can find about 830 category talk pages and about 25 other pages that transclude the British crime template. There are also 4 template articles that redirect to the British crime template, although only one appears to have significant use for displaying the talk page banners. The others are mostly being used as redirect links between Template, User or Wikipedia talk pages, not transcluded as template banners. Only a couple of articles transclude these redirects, so it should be easy to substitute banners in these cases. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA: I have now replaced the WikiProject British crime banner for all articles and categories that trancluded this template. There are a handful of remaining project pages that are directly related to the WikiProject British crime project page. Should I include those pages in the Crime and Criminal Biography WikiProject, or just leave them? There are also several redirects and I wonder if any of them should be redirected to the Crime and Criminal Biography WikiProject, too?
The remaining pages are mostly various User: or Wikipedia: talk pages that refer to the page Template:WikiProject British crime in their discussions or listings. I am not sure if doing anything with these pages is worthwhile.
I have closed one talk page discussion about the removal of the WikiProject banner with a note the banner has now been replaced with alternatives. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
@Cameron Dewe Unfortunately, my personal life has become a nightmare as of late so my activity or response times may not be the greatest, but 1) Great job replacing all that and 2) I would just leave them personally. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

While assessing numerous crime-related articles, I have found myself repeatedly referring to certain guidelines and saying the same sorts of things time and time again. Editors seem to be insufficiently aware of these specific issues when writing about crime-related topics. The general advice about contributing to Wikipedia that is offered at Wikipedia:Writing better articles is quite general. It does not highlight issues related to specific topics. Also, there are other more specialized essays about writing about specific topics, such as:

I see this essay about writing better crime-related atricles as being something different from a style guide or part of the Manual of Style for Crime-related articles. The essay would set out the basic issues that editors might encounter when writing about crime-related topics and provide advice and considerations that editors should take into account. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

@Cameron Dewe This seems like a good idea, I have no opposition. I can't think of any suggestions for it off the top of my head, though. PARAKANYAA (talk) 14:03, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@Cameron Dewe I agree that something like this (or even a style guide) is sorely needed. It's a little alarming how widespread the lack of editorial standards for crime-related articles are and a bit surprising that a style guide doesn't already exist. The Professional Wrestling style guide is one that's pretty good and is also about a topic area that requires a lot of editorial guidance: Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Style guide. BoldGnome (talk) 04:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA and BoldGnome: Thanks for your feedback. I have started drafting an essay in my sandbox. Some of the advice is pretty general. While other advice is specific about crime related articles, such as writing articles about crimes in the past tense because these are historic events. I would welcome comments and further specific ideas. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 04:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on this, it looks great so far! I wonder if there would be more value in centralising it to the Project Page and perhaps making it specifically a style guide? Essays are easily dismissed by stubborn editors whereas a style guide can be more easily relied on as the consensus of editors involved in the project, and can be more easily changed to reflect evolving consensus. (Plus it would lighten the burden on you.) Totally understand if that's not what you intend for this piece of work. BoldGnome (talk) 07:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
My initial thoughts were to draft something in my sandbox before moving it to an essay. But your suggestion of a style guide makes sense for some of the content that is specifically crime related. There is other content, about the 5 W questions, that is more content orientated that would probably make sense to be in a stand alone essay as it is good advice about writing articles generally. - Thanks for the feedback. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 07:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
@Cameron Dewe One specific issue that always tends to cause a lot of controversy is when exactly a perpetrator of a high profile crime warrants a separate article from the main crime article - it's often accepted, but usually as a sub-article from the main one, and even then. There was an essay that gave guidance along these lines, but IIRC that essay gave backwards guidance from how it was usually handled (it advised making an article on the perpetrator first, and not an event one - though that basically is how we deal with non modern serial killers). I have some thoughts on this myself but I definitely feel as if it's an issue that a crime style guide would need to handle.
Our handling of this area is kind of a mess, especially with serial vs mass murderers (who we treat very differently page-structure wise in most cases). Guidelines are sort of unwritten here in this respect. And we don't have any clear cut guidance on how to treat aspects of crime perpetrators in articles, except for the broad BLP guidance which obviously applies to crime in the "be careful about naming people" thing. This has to do with WP:BIO1E and WP:BLP1E - however, these guidelines explicitly notes "if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified" and "if the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one" then an article may be warranted (which everyone ignores) so where do we draw the line?
I think it should probably be noted that in any case, splits of that nature shouldn't be done unless it would improve the original and split pages, which is something no one seems to understand so we have people trying to make half baked split articles for notorious murderers even when it covers no new ground. Someone actually went and wrote a decent (but kind of overdetailed) article for Elliot Rodger that did cover what the main page didn't recently, after years and years of people saying he should have an article but not actually writing one. Content split is useless without the content after all.
Anyway I'll try to think of more things to cover. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA: Yes, I was involved in the debate about the Elliot Rodger article, as well as other proposals by the same editor for other proposed biographies where WP:BIO1E and WP:BLP1E were involved. There is also WP:CRIMINAL and WP:BLPCRIME which, I think, over-rides the other policies, too. I will go back over some arguments on these topics to see what has been put forward and accepted. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 05:27, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
An additional thought I've had is that many crime-related articles are written in a way where it tries to tells a dramatic 'true crime' story which describes each 'twist' and 'turn' in the events they describe, likely as a result of the sources relied upon for those articles. I know you've referred to Writing Better Articles, but I'd suggest borrowing heavily from WP:Encyclopedic style. BoldGnome (talk) 08:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
@BoldGnome: I have also found that being ENCYCLOPEDIC means that Wikipedia is not everything. Also, Wikipedia is not a news website, nor is it a memorial website. I also recently came across an opinion piece by a journalist who was asking why there were murders missing from Wikipedia, and pointing out that some of these articles about brutal murders were actually being deleted, basically because nobody was writing news stories about them. I will need to find it again. This started me thinking about media bias when reporting crime, as "If it bleeds, it leads." - which means newspapers will tend to report sensational or spectacular violent crimes, yet ignore mundane crime that makes up the majority of crime that is committed. I also came across some comments I made about the (mis-)use of crime statistics back in 2021. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Found this opinion piece: Thomas, Sean (31 July 2013) "The murder of Stephen Lawrence and the strange case of the missing Wikipedia entries", The Telegraph. - I think this is an interesting observation about crime articles on Wikipedia. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:05, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Having been distracted for the past month with replacing the British crime banner, I am now starting to think about this again. The idea of a style guide is starting to appeal to me more and more. There are a number of style issues I have come across recently that suggest further guidance may be needed for various issues specific to crime related articles that are already covered by existing guidelines.
One example is use of the somewhat vague label "criminal" being used in relation to biographies of people who are convicted of a serious crime, or crimes, of a particular type for which there is a much more precise term that could be used instead. Often the "criminal" label is not supported by any sources, while the other term(s) are often well supported by sources. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 11:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally#Requested move 13 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally#Requested move 13 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:University of Texas at Austin stabbing#Requested move 14 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:University of Texas at Austin stabbing#Requested move 14 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 22:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Michael Jackson sexual abuse allegations#Requested move 15 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Michael Jackson sexual abuse allegations#Requested move 15 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 16:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Binghamton shooting#Requested move 16 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Binghamton shooting#Requested move 16 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 16:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine has an RfC

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. JDiala (talk) 21:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kaspersky bans and allegations of Russian government ties#Requested move 23 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Kaspersky bans and allegations of Russian government ties#Requested move 23 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:34, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Cerro Maravilla murders

Cerro Maravilla murders has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster (trout me!) 08:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Lucy Letby has an RfC

Lucy Letby, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. NebY (talk) 17:19, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Calls for the destruction of Israel#Requested move 31 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Calls for the destruction of Israel#Requested move 31 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 10:12, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 United Kingdom riots#Requested move 7 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 United Kingdom riots#Requested move 7 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPathtalk 03:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Hawley Harvey Crippen: EngVar

There is a question about whether American or British English is most appropriate in this article at Talk:Hawley Harvey Crippen#EngVar (at present it is mixed, contrary to WP:ENGVAR and MOS:CONSISTENT). Editors' input is welcomed. - Davidships (talk) 03:27, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Kolkata rape and murder incident#Requested move 16 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Kolkata rape and murder incident#Requested move 16 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mohamed Atta#Requested move 19 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mohamed Atta#Requested move 19 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Aprilajune (talk) 02:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Palestinian suicide terrorism#Requested move 21 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Palestinian suicide terrorism#Requested move 21 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPathtalk 08:56, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard § POVPUSH removal of "Black"

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard § POVPUSH removal of "Black", which is within the scope of this WikiProject. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 22:18, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Philippine Senate hearing on the Kingdom of Jesus Christ#Requested move 25 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Philippine Senate hearing on the Kingdom of Jesus Christ#Requested move 25 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. HueMan1 (talk) 14:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Murder of Mallory Manning#Requested move 22 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Murder of Mallory Manning#Requested move 22 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 07:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello,
Please note that Cancel culture, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Requested move at Talk:Arrest of Pavel Durov#Requested move 28 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Arrest of Pavel Durov#Requested move 28 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPathtalk 05:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Reassess Forced Prostitution article

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Assessment
 – PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hey guys. A significant amount of work has been done to the Forced Prostitution article by me among others, is it possible for it to be re-assessed? Thanks. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:48, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Assessments

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Assessment
 – PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I've been contributing to crime-related articles for the past five years and have noticed that most articles in this WikiProject go unassessed.Is there any way I could help? Thanks, ----User:Gourami WatcherUser talk:Gourami Watcher 19:23, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments?

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Assessment/A-Class review
 – PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Please comment or make suggestions. Many thanks. Mootros (talk) 18:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom#Requested move 3 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Muslim grooming gangs in the United Kingdom#Requested move 3 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPathtalk 03:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mazan rapes case#Requested move 7 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mazan rapes case#Requested move 7 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Gaza genocide/Archive 5#Requested move 7 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Gaza genocide/Archive 5#Requested move 7 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPathtalk 04:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump#Requested move 15 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump#Requested move 15 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 02:05, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2019 El Paso shooting#Requested move 15 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2019 El Paso shooting#Requested move 15 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 01:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Éric Borel#Requested move 17 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Éric Borel#Requested move 17 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 05:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Are war crimes in scope?

I'm inclined to think yes but I am unsure. Another question, which I am even less certain of: are war related massacres/mass killings in the purview of the serial killer task force? I feel those are slightly different issues. But not sure. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:47, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

@PARAKANYAA: The UNODC's crime classification standard (ICCS) has several categories that classify a range of War crimes (11013) as well as Unlawful killing associated with armed conflict (0107), where those do not amount to war crimes, as crimes.[1] This implies war crimes are definitely in scope, especially where one or more perpetrators have been charged with a war crime or there is an investigation by relevant authorities that war crimes have been committed. Mere allegations without a judicial ruling are, perhaps, a grey area. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 20:00, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
@Cameron Dewe makes sense to me. Thanks! PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:42, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --MikutoH talk! 22:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kingdom of Jesus Christ compound standoff#Requested move 1 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Kingdom of Jesus Christ compound standoff#Requested move 1 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. HueMan1 (talk) 22:53, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Merge of WP:TERRORISM into this project

I have started a discussion on WP:TERRORISM about making that project a task force of this one, since it is inactive and has so much overlap with our project. See here. Please contribute your thoughts. Thanks! PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:21, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

@PARAKANYAA: I note that this merger has been completed now, with all the WikiProject Terrorism related articles now having a WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography banner and rating. By my estimates, over half the articles already had a Crime and Criminal Biography banner on them, and of the remainder I looked at, all but one probably should have had the banner added, too. I only saw one article where the crime banner should not have been put on the article, and that was because it was not terrorism in the first place, and should have been classified as a military action instead. Far less painful a migration than previous merges. Well done. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 17:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Unassessed articles

Now that the WP Terrorism articles were tagged with this project (or are, it's not done yet), the unassessed importance articles backlog has gone from 0 to what is looking to be several thousand. I will handle what I can. Well, at least we'll get all of the notifications for articles on article alerts now, I always thought it was really annoying that we didn't. PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Done with AWB. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:47, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
@PARAKANYAA: Thanks for all the hard work. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 17:04, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Consensus to split into subpages?

I'm partially neutral on this but while changing all the page names for WP:TERROR I realized they use the subpage method of organization, while we have everything on one page. I think it is clearer organizationally if we do it that way, but didn't want to do it without consensus. For example, we could split resources/participants/recognized content/open tasks off to their own pages. thanks :D PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I think having all the WikiProject content on one page makes it easier to see what is going on with a WikiProject. Having multiple pages poses the risk of content forking, where information on one page conflicts with similar information on another. While it is a good idea to have separate pages for each task force of a WikiProject, having a centralized page for the overall WikiProject reduces the number of different pages one needs to keep an eye on to just one. I see sub-pages as mostly being for sections of the main project page that you want people to contribute to, without actually editing the main project page itself. The content might appear on the main project page in an abbreviated form but editing takes place on the sub-page, like documentation sub-pages for templates, where one does not want the template page to be updated. However, I don't see the need for that approach here, at the moment. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 17:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Fair enough, honestly PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Renaming Charles Rodman Campbell Article

I started a discussion on the talk page for the article Charles Rodman Campbell, regarding a potential name change; I decided to post here to get more opinions.

I'm currently working on addressing a severe lack of sources and prevalence of factual errors, rearranging the article, and adding additional information, and I figured it might be helpful to first hear opinions on a potential renaming of the article after the crime victims rather than the perpetrator, before I get too far with making more rearrangements. Renaming the article would require a drastic rearrangement of almost all the information currently present.

Long story short, I proposed changing the name of the article to Clearview triple murders, or something similar; due to there having been three victims (Renae Wicklund, Shannah Wicklund, and Barbara Hendrickson), I'd be hesitant to name it after any of the victims or place any of their surnames in the title, but I can also see if that title naming it after the city might seem vague, or if it could be argued that Campbell was a sufficiently historically noteworthy figure to make the article's current title appropriate. (I also want to be clear that I don't really want to have a discussion here; I'd rather the discussion be on the article's talk page linked above, where I have gone into more and better detail about my thoughts.) Afddiary (talk) 12:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Robert Roberson case#Requested move 26 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Robert Roberson case#Requested move 26 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 17:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Iskandar of Johor

Iskandar of Johor has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for R v R

R v R has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Featured article review

I have nominated Toa Payoh ritual murders for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Lizzy Seeberg

I'm not sure the Death of Lizzy Seeberg article meets WP:NPOV; I re-worded some of the article but I would like other editors to take a look Joeykai (talk) 06:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@Joeykai: I think your rewording is an improvement. WP:BLPCRIME applies to the article. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Are Murder/Killing of articles supposed to use infobox person or the civilian attack infobox?

I've seen both. With mass attack type crimes it obviously makes no sense using the person infobox but when there's only one victim it makes enough sense. And calling one person's murder a "civilian attack" seems weird. That hypothetical style guide we were working on should probably address this. There's also Infobox event, which is sometimes used, which in most ways is worse for crime articles in that it isn't very well adapted to it, but is better for crime articles in the singular way of having a sentence parameter, which means we can only add the sentence parameter to like 1% of articles that are applicable to them. This is stupid. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

And also, some articles contain multiple infoboxes, typically with crime they will have one event one and one for the perp. I tried this my first few edits and was quickly taught not to do it, but was never certain if it was against the rules since I see it in many pages. Multiple infoboxes turns into an eyesore and isn't really fulfilling of the infobox purpose, so now I am against it, but thoughts? PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
I personally think that using the civilian attack infobox on the article of the murder of a singlular person makes sense, since they are a civilian who was attacked, therefore it is an attack on a civilian thus being a "civilian attack". Articles on individual murders aren't solely written about the victim either, they write of the background events, perpetrator and legacy of the murder. So, using the person infobox wouldn't make sense since the article isn't actually centred around the person, it's centred around their murder. For example, Murder of George Floyd uses infobox civilian attack since it's about the murder, whilst George Floyd uses infobox person since it's about the victim.
I'd also like to mention that there are instances where Infobox event should be used in crime articles, for example: Kenosha unrest shooting uses Infobox event, as the killings were classed as self-defense and not murder, so Kyle Rittenhouse did not attack those who died, nor did he murder them, he simply killed them. Killing and murder are different since "killing" is merely the act of killing, whilst murder is unlawful killing. The same is used for Killing of Trayvon Martin since Trayvon Martin, as decided in court, was not "murdered", he was "killed" as the ordeal was classified as self-defense.
This how I feel it should be:
Atamanashi (talk) 12:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Also, I may be looking too deeply definitions and terminology, but I'd like to ask whether Infobox civilian attack should be used on articles regarding the murders of police officers or military personnel, as police and military by definition are not civilians. So the murder of one of these cannot actually be a "civilian attack". For example, 2009 shootings of Oakland police officers uses Infobox civilian attack despite the fact none of the victims were civilians. I'm unsure if every article about the murder of a police officer or military personnel should use Infobox event or if it would even be a good idea, I just think it would just make sense logically. Atamanashi (talk) 13:00, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
I don't really think the distinction between civilian and non civilian for the purpose of the infobox is that important except for excluding most wartime actions, so if it's a "mass attack" type crime I would say that it should use that template and not event as it is the closest to its purpose. So I would say the police ones should use civilian attack as they aren't wartime actions. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Agree, like I said I was looking into it too deeply. The actual purpose of the infobox coincides better with the articles, even if no civilian were attacked, the name wouldn't dictate it so specifically. Atamanashi (talk) 00:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
I don't think lawful/unlawfulness should impact it, as there isn't really any parameter-type difference. An attack is not unlawful per se, it is merely aggressive, there can be lawful attacks, such as in war. Will think more on the rest. PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
I understand an attack isn't always inherently inlawful, however, the crime articles centred around a "killing" are usually always self-defense, so the defender did not attack anyone, they defended themself. So, in my opinion, these articles should use the event infobox as opposed to the civilian attack one since it was not an attack, even if the parameters are similar.
BTW, my question about article about murders of police/military, I'd just like to clarify, that was a hypothetical question rather than a genuine proposal. Atamanashi (talk) 00:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
An attack does not have to be unlawful though, an attack can be in self defense. And yes the hypotheticals are important here to figure out what the purpose of everything is. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
The reason I disagree with this is that the purpose of the infobox was originally, AFAIK, for terror attacks and mass shootings, and then I think for labeling and overlap reasons those got combined. I do not think that a crime or non-crime attack that targets several people (or is attempting to) has the same considerations as the killing of one person, other than generalist crime parameters (which event also has), so you tend to get some very off labeling. And yes, the George Floyd case is one thing, but that one was so astronomically high profile that we have three articles, one for the crime one for the victim one for the perpetrator, instead of just choosing one (I still don't get why we have an article for Chauvin, compared to other BLP1E cases, but oh well). From what I've seen it's pretty random whether an article uses the person one or attack/event. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Pablo Escobar, The Drug Lord#Requested move 1 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Pablo Escobar, The Drug Lord#Requested move 1 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

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