Talk:Pablo Escobar, The Drug Lord

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On 1 November 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Pablo Escobar, el patrón del mal. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Mauricio Restrepo

Teodoro Mauricio Fino Restrepo «El Gaviota» is probably too young to be depicted as Mauricio Restrepo.

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YQ1S4qKNaM and the Spanish page about "Pablo Escobar, The Drug Lord" the man behind Mauricio Restrepo is Luis Enrique Ramírez Murillo «Miki Ramírez». 2001:1C02:1A99:D200:ECA6:91A9:4FC6:AA18 (talk) 15:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Title

I'm changing the title. Netflix title is Pablo Escobar, el patrón del mal. So I think we can consider that the new international title. "The drug lord" is also a very poor translation of "El patrón del Mal"Tazelaar (talk) 09:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Historical accuracy, excessive detail

The list of anachronisms has an "excessive detail" banner.

@JeanMercier90 Did you find all these anachronisms yourself or is there a source we might link to, so we can remove the list?

Tazelaar (talk) 19:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I put the sources. But I see you're like the clown DEA agents which wrote this awful Netflix series Narcos. You don't know anything about Colombia and it's history. JeanMercier90 (talk) 17:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JeanMercier90 Wow, why the hostility? I didn't even criticize you. I didn't put up that banner. Why do you think I'm ignorant? I haven't seen Narco's (yet) and I like El Patron del Mal. You think El Patron del Mal is inaccurate/accurate? The reason why I reached out to you, is because of the banner (which I did not place). I did not want do delete the list you uploaded if it was all your hard work. Maybe if the sources have al those points, we can summarize your list and just link to the sources. I think I might be able to summarize my list too. Tazelaar (talk) 16:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 18:37, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pablo Escobar, The Drug Lord → Pablo Escobar, el patrón del mal – Netflix title is "Pablo Escobar, el patrón del mal" (With that stylisation, is also the original stylisation). So I think we can consider that the new international title. "The drug lord" is also a very poor translation of "El patrón del Mal" Tazelaar (talk) 09:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 12:17, 1 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bensci54 (talk) 17:32, 8 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tazelaar Apple TV+ Still calls it "Pablo Escobar: The Drug Lord" here. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 14:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Netflix (here) and IMDb (here) and MUBI (here) call it "El patrón del mal". Tazelaar (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this settles it, doesn't it? Tazelaar (talk) 16:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tazelaar Contesting as this likely needs a discussion to move forward. This wiki prefers English titles when possible, and we use the WP:COMMONNAME which is the name reported by majority of sources (again, preferably English sources, which are typically going to favor an English translation) - as for the translation, if the official translation is incorrect, it might be borderline editorializing if we try to correct it unless the correction we go with is also supported by majority of RS. At the very least, we would need to see sources or evidence of which title is the common name to move forward (and that would be most productive in a discussion where editors can bring forward opposing evidence that may have been missed.) ASUKITE 14:46, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I concede that the content of the translation is a circumstantial argument, but an argument nonetheless. Tazelaar (talk) 13:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another circumstantial argument is that: "El patrón del mal" is a better recognisable title. Pablo Escobar was a drug lord, so the title could be used normally in a sentence. "El patrón del mal" is a unique title, more distinguishing from the "Pablo Escobar" article and Google results. Tazelaar (talk) 13:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tazelaar; your technical request has been contested. If you wish to continue with the request, please use the "discuss" link in your request to open a full RM. Sennecaster (Chat) 19:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apple TV calls it by this English name. I don't think it's as much a translation as just the English title. However, the , should be a :, Pablo Escobar: The Drug Lord as is the typical English styling. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support moving to Pablo Escobar, el patrón del mal. Google Trends clearly shows that the Spanish term is more popular, and skimming the references cited in this article shows that slightly more of them use the Spanish name than the English one (my skimming was admittedly hampered by several unarchived deadlinks, and my Internet connection is too poor at the moment to go archive-diving).

I separately support replacing the comma with a colon, as in "Pablo Escobar: The Drug Lord". This is how subtitles are normally written and is (kind of) supported by WP:SUBTITLE. Toadspike [Talk] 18:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Toadspike Aren't we always supposed to prefer English titles when there is one, though? PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct, we do have a naming convention that says that. On the other hand, Tazelaar linked three English websites above that use the Spanish name. This might count as WP:DIVIDEDUSE, which is one of two exceptions to that rule. The situation is muddled enough that I'm going to stick with my weak support for now, but a proper source analysis could change this. (Thus far, my ref-skimming has been the closest thing in this discussion.) Toadspike [Talk] 22:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Soap Operas, WikiProject Television, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography have been notified of this discussion. Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Some recent activity but not quite seeing a consensus one way or another. Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do WP:independent sources refer to it? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:27, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I took a look at some of the English-language sources that have come out. Here's what they used:
  - Variety ("Latin America Plays Up the DRAMA", March 31, 2015): Pablo Escobar, the Drug Lord
  - Variety (May 20, 2017): “Escobar, El Patrón del Mal”
  - The Wall Street Journal (April 23, 2018): Pablo Escobar: The Drug Lord
  - Los Angeles Times (April 19, 2019): “Pablo Escobar: El Patrón del Mal” (“Pablo Escobar: The Drug Lord”)
These sources, in my opinion, probably indicate that our best call is to weak oppose the native title and weak support switching the comma to a colon, even if I think that the native title makes a compelling case (and I will admit I tend to lean more toward native titles). There is also a surprising contingent of Spanish-language sources, including some scholarly ones, that call it simply "Escobar, el patrón del mal" (no Pablo), but that usage is mixed even in the same publications, where you can find articles with or without Pablo in El Espectador or El Tiempo, not to mention non-Colombian publications. Sources in Spanish do opt on a fairly significant majority basis for the comma, so if this article were to be titled at the Spanish-language page, I would support its use. It is unfortunate that the English-language title is not a direct translation ("The Patron of Evil" sounds a lot more interesting), but it is clearly the title that the series was given for international distribution in English, and we can't second-guess or contravene that decision.

Sammi Brie

t

c

05:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

[reply]

"Patron of Evil" isn't a particularly good translation of the Spanish - "The Evil Boss" or "The Evil Master" would be closer to the original. 194.73.48.66 (talk) 17:49, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We could just cut the knot and move it to Pablo Escobar (telenovela). 194.73.48.66 (talk) 17:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.