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Computing

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November 17

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Jiggly computer game characters

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For want of a better word, there's a trope used in the depiction of creatures (humanoid or other) depicted in video games where the characters are constantly jiggling about. I can guess several reasons why this might be the case. Is there a name for this sort of depiction? Does it have an interesting history perhaps? --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 00:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's rather vague, can you give an example? Are you thinking of the spasms sometimes afflicting puppets due to ragdoll physics? Or something simpler, like the jerkiness of two-frame animation?  Card Zero  (talk) 09:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you've played any video games in last decade, you'll have seen it; here is an example. Has nothing to do death throes (unless that's where the trope started.) It doesn't seem to have any purpose other than visual; it's not denoting actual motion or anything vaguely realistic. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 16:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The name of that type of depiction is idle or idling animation, as indicated on that page. Shantavira|feed me 17:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Idle animation. Thank you, that's what I was looking for. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 18:34, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two-factor authentication and repeated codes

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One form of two-factor authentication (or 2FA for short) uses six-digit codes. So, how likely will one encounter a code that one has already seen before? If a six-digit code is generated 1,000,001 times, then the pigeonhole principle guarantees that at least one of them must be repeated. So, if a six-digit code is generated every 30 seconds starting from the beginning of a year, then there must inevitably be a repeated code by the end of the year. GTrang (talk) 15:34, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and? The codes don't need to be unique. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 16:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The likelihood of encountering a code that one has already seen before (which appears to be your question) depends entirely on how many you have seen before. Shantavira|feed me 17:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let stand for the number of possible outcomes of a discrete random variable with a uniform distribution. For a fair standard die, For the six-digit codes with range 0000009999999, Assume that each next turn is independent of the history. Let denote the probability that the first turns gave different outcomes – no repeats (yet). Obviously, For turn to be different from the earlier turns, the outcome has to be one of the still remaining outcomes that have not yet occurred. The probability, independent of the past, is so
For this has a factor so then Otherwise,
When you already have less than 50% chance of repeat-free survival. See also Birthday paradox.  --Lambiam 19:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Everyone is told not to re-use passwords, but that doesn't apply to one-time singleton keys such as are typically used in 2FA.
  • If I somehow know that last year your regular password was "gzornnplatz", and I'm trying to hack into your account, "gzornnplatz" is a reasonable thing to try; it's considerably more likely to still or again be your password today than some other 11-character string.
  • But if I'm trying to guess a 2FA code, and I know that some time ago the generator randomly generated 123456, that tells me nothing about what code it's likely to use today. During any given authentication session, every one of those 1,000,000 codes is equally likely. The security rests on the assumption that there's no way you can possibly try more than a tiny fraction of the codes in that space before the authentication session times out and starts over with a new code (or locks you out for a while).
scs (talk) 01:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

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Follow up to Can high memory usage make the Internet not work?

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Referring to this question, a man came to my house this morning and replaced the phone line. He said it was old and just barely working. They've been talking about that for quite some time. When I was told I could get a faster speed at no charge, the men who came didn't do anything because there was no way to do it without drilling a hole in the wall. I said it was fine if they didn't. I thought they were going to do it behind some heavy furniture where the outside equipment was. The last time anyone came to my house nothing was done inside and there was no talk about replacing the phone line. But the man this morning wanted the line to go in the house near my computer, and there was nothing heavy to move.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Electronically notarize a plain text file

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Does anyone know of a use case for electronically notarizing a plain text file in the United States or country with similar laws? The reason is that rules for notaries public are being developed in my state that, depending on how they are written, might make notarizing such files more difficult because they might require the notary's signature to be present as a graphic image (JPEG or the like) which is not supported in somes kind of computer files. Jc3s5h (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because laws don't keep up with technology, a company I used to work for used a workaround. They printed out a large hash of the text files (mainly computer code) and notarized the hash. So, the file itself was not notarized, but the hash of it was. So, in court, if the file has the same hash you can state that the hash the file has is the hash that was notarized. There is a minor limitation. It is possible to alter a file while not altering the hash. It isn't common, but with hashes, there is always an issue of collision. That wasn't a big enough issue for the needs of the company. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 13:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@12.116.29.106: I was aware of that approach, which is why I said that not supporting graphic images in a file merely made it more difficult to notarize. While respecting everyone's privacy, can you describe why it was necessary to indirectly notarize computer code and the other files? Jc3s5h (talk) 22:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is one thing to create a sequence of bytes matching a given hash. It is another thing to do this such that the sequence of bytes is not gibberish, and not even just something meaningful, but something meaningful that conveys an intended message.  --Lambiam 13:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why did we have to notarize computer code? Darl McBride went a bit crazy and claimed that his company had a copyright on all computer code. In court, he was required to state exactly what code other companies had that violated the copyright. He said all of it. It went back and forth and at one point the company I worked for had to send his company source code. We had to notarize what we sent and it was important to do it in a way that our lawyers could tell the court if Darl's company altered the code to make it look more like theirs, which they did. Then, luckily, I retired before it got real silly. Basically, if you are mixing law and programming together, you have to find a legal way to protect the programming. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 13:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 19

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Windows.old

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My desktop computer is a Dell Inspiron 3910 running Windows 11, and has 12 GB of RAM and 216 GB of solid-state storage as the C: drive. I recently moved some folders that I don't need to a removable disk. I also have a great monster external drive with 4 TB that I use for backup. As of 9 November 2024, a folder called Windows.old has appeared on my C: drive. It occupies about 27 GB on my C: drive, and now I am getting red warnings in the This PC screen for low remaining disk storage, but not actually running out of disk storage. It appears to contain copies of some of the contents of the Windows, Program Files, and Program Files (x86) folders. My first question is why it has appeared on my computer. I didn't do anything intentionally that I thought would create it. It is possible that the cat did something random. She's a cat, and sometimes walks on the keyboard. My second question is whether I need it, or whether I can safely move it to the monster. Is anyone familiar with the creation of this backup folder? Can I move it to a different device? Robert McClenon (talk) 06:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This file appears when a Windows upgrade is performed. I've an idea it is used in a system restore. If everything is running fine, you can delete it by running a disk cleanup and ticking clean up system files. It is probably worth having a look through the folder before you delete it. TrogWoolley (talk) 07:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your computer likely got the Windows 11, version 24H2 update. The system files from the old update were moved in Windows.old to allow you to temporarily roll back if there's any problem. You can try running a disk cleanup (I remember Windows once asking me to delete this folder because of free space shortage), or it will be eventually removed on its own. You definitely don't have to back it up in an external storage medium. Ian P. Tetriss (talk) 00:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Ian P. Tetriss, User:TrogWoolley - Thank you for the explanation. I had already backed up the Windows.old folder to an external device and then had disk cleanup delete it before I read your advice that it is not necessary to back it up. So I will move it from the disk drive to the 4 TB drive. I will also check to see if my laptop computer has a Windows.old file, and do disk cleanup on it. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My laptop computer does not have a Windows.old file. It is old, older than my desktop computer, and so may not be one of the computers that Microsoft has updated to 24H2. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My laptop computer now does have a Windows.old file, after it went through a long upgrade on Sunday evening. Its C: drive isn't as filled up as my desktop computer, so I will probably just leave that folder alone. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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AI and the 2024 US election

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Resolved

My question is, how much did rudimentary "AI" (or what we like to refer to as AI) contribute to the outcome of the 2024 US election? I haven't seen much written about this, but if there are articles on this subject, please point me to them. Viriditas (talk) 09:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's an amusing ref desk phenomenon where a questioner accidentally formulates a good search query to use for the question's title. Here's my first two results: The AI-generated hell of the 2024 election , AI's Underwhelming Impact on the 2024 Elections. Opinions differ, evidently.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ackshually, that's exactly what I was looking for. Are you a mind reader? Viriditas (talk) 10:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 23

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ClipChamp.exe and Disk Backup

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If I am backing up my C: drive (which I still think of as a hard disk, although it is a solid-state device) to an external medium (a 4TB removable device), I get various error messages that I have to Skip. One of them says that it is unable to copy Clipchamp.exe, which has size 0 bytes. I can Try Again or Skip or Cancel. Only Skip makes any sense. I have looked up what Clipchamp is, and I see that it is a Microsoft video editor tool, but that it has a web-based architecture, so that the code resides on a web site and is loaded temporarily into my computer to run the application. My first question is: If I am doing the backup in the usual fashion, by dragging a folder from C: to a folder window on F: (the removable storage device), is there any way that I can tell Windows 11 in advance to Skip errors rather than prompting me for action? Second, is there any alternate easy-to-do way to copy folders from C: to a folder on F: other than dragging and dropping that allows me to specify action on errors? Third, I see that Clipchamp, and some of the other stuff that gives me errors on backup up, are in the Users folder. Do the error messages that I am getting mean that copying the Users folder is problematic, and that I should be backing up some of its subfolders instead? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found Robocopy, if you want a copy utility with sophisticated options. (Does figuring out a new tool save effort? Debatable.) This is built-in to Windows 11, I tried it out myself just now.  Card Zero  (talk) 04:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 24

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Telegram account deletion timing

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On the Internet I find many guides that explain how to delete a Telegram account but in none of these is it written after how long it is actually closed. Does anyone know the answer? 2.194.247.141 (talk) 21:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you trid? Do you have some reason to suppose it is not closed immediately? Most online accounts are. Shantavira|feed me 09:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It depends. I think for a lot of more sophisticated services nowadays, deletion isn't actually instant and you generally have X number of days to change your mind. E.g. Facebook is 30 days, Microsoft is 30 or 60 days [1]. Google seems to have a window too [2] but I didn't find what it is also I think it's 20 days for their business service Workspaces [3]. Discord is possibly 14-30 days [4].

I think these arise out of fact that traditionally, deleting your account on such services may not do much. Often it just marks stuff as deleted and hides it from the front end but the data is all still there and especially in the backups such services have to try and ensure they don't lose data. So depending on whether the service was willing it was potentially possible to get your account back or at least partially back months or years later. Laws and regulations especially from the EU (GDPR) has meant this isn't so accepted any more and so such services do actually have to try and delete your data now after some time.

But with password leaks etc, compromised accounts are common and there are limited additional verification steps that might be taken depending on the details held. So if they start to remove your data instantly people are going to get annoyed when some troll or whatever compromises their account and deletes all their data. (I mean even Jim Browning had his Youtube channel deleted.) And I'm sure plenty of people just delete their accounts when there is something going on in their lives then later regret it, especially common I'm sure for anything with a social aspect like Facebook, Discord and yes Telegram. So they set a defined recovery window before they actually start to delete your data.

I didn't find anything for Telegram but Telegram is known for operating fairly outside the laws of the EU. What I did find is suggestions that the way Telegram works mean deleting your account doesn't mean the data disappears, in fact it will still be visible in the accounts of anyone you chatted with etc unless you delete it first where possible. I'm not sure what happens for stuff in your saved messages but I wouldn't be surprised if it's all still somewhere, although this doesn't mean Telegram will allow you to recover your account.

That said this suggests Discord is possibly the same. Potentially because they interpret the GDPR as meaning they've complied if they remove any connections between your account and your real life identity in their details. And if you posted in some chat "Hi I'm @deleteddiscorduser12345 . I'm John Michael Smith, born on 21 September 1970 at the Flint Public hospital, raised in Flint with my mum Jane and dad George. I attended the Flint Grade School, Flint Middle School and Flint High School then went to MIT studying Computer Science from 1988-1992. Now I'm of Detroit, Michigan and live in 1000 West Street with my 2 cats Snowy and Larry." it's tough cookies I guess. (Of course such services always have a problem when it's someone else who posted it, or if they replied in such a way they they copied part of your message.)

Nil Einne (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 26

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Is anyone here a Reddit moderator or do any of you know well why the automod is glitching out badly on me? It keeps autoremoving my innocent posts no matter what subreddits I post in.

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Please check out my account; what is it about my account that causes the automod to malfunction and keep autoremoving my posts?: https://www.reddit.com/user/AWrride/

My post karma is in the thousands and comment karma is in the hundreds so they're not getting removed for low karma, so why are they getting removed then? How do I stop getting bothered by the automod like this?

Also, most pleas in the subreddits' ModMails go unanswered. It's as if the mods don't read my pleas.

So could someone here please help me resolve the glitching automod problem so that I can get their automoderator to please leave me alone? Thanks. --2600:100A:B030:9399:A4B7:A7C4:A534:6D53 (talk) 17:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

USB mouse stops working after running Beautiful Soup from bs4 with requests and lxml in PyCharm

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starts working again after I put the laptop in sleep mode and sign back in, any idea what is causing this? Therapyisgood (talk) 21:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 28

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Science

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November 14

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Tau propagation

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Create redirect Tau propagation to Tau_protein#Tau hypothesis of Alzheimer's disease which section of Tau protein? ExclusiveEditor Notify Me! 20:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is a controversial hypothesis that cannot be dealt with with a simple redirect.  --Lambiam 05:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 15

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Why are Koalas vulnerable to extinction

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Hi. I was wondering why Koalas are vulnerable to extinction unlike Kangaroos, which are way more common, and both animals are found in Australia. Please let me know. Thanks. 2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA (talk) 04:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article has some information on it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Habitat loss, especially lack of connected habitats, chlamidia, overcrowding, dogs. I doubt they are anywhere near extinct. Greglocock (talk) 05:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It might have been quicker to Google your question - this was one of the first results; Threats To The Koala. Alansplodge (talk) 11:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kangaroos are more flexible in what they eat, and can move large distances faster. But koalas are cuter and so have more public awareness and are used as the poster animal, like giant pandas. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More generally, the more specialised an organism is, the less likely it is to go extinct as a result of competition from other species but the more likely it is to be affected by environmental changes. So Koalas aren't going to have to worry about some other similar animal taking over its territory and taking all the eucalyptus for themselves. But they would be vulnerable to anything that killed off the eucalyptus. Iapetus (talk) 12:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Admiral Nakhimov

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In the time leading up to the shipwreck in late August 1986, is it known whether Captain Victor Tkachenko of the Petr Vasev had been transferred there from a smaller ship? Because I've read an article a while ago in Science et Vie (the Russian version) about the human factors in that disaster, and this would be the only conclusion which would make any sense! 2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (talk) 14:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the question is better suited at WP:RDH. ExclusiveEditor Notify Me! 20:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't plants photosynthesize efficiently?

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Photosynthesis is 6% efficient in green plants, 20% in solar panels. I see hints that it's more efficient in red algae, but I can't find a figure. They need to be efficient because they live in low light environments. There's a note here at Artificial_photosynthesis#Some_advantages,_disadvantages,_and_efficiency which says photosynthesis is typically 1% efficient! What's up with that? Something about not having enough CO2 around in the air to have any use for the energy? I found this article which says For the cell, a steady input of electrical energy coupled to a steady output of chemical energy is best: Too few electrons reaching the reaction center can cause an energy failure, while “too much energy will cause free radicals and all sorts of overcharging effects” that damage tissues, but that seems to boil down to "the cells can't do it".  Card Zero  (talk) 20:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Evolution doesn't necessarily aim for perfection, just for survival. If that 6 percent is good enough for survival, there would likely be no evolutionary pressure to do it "better". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Trees compete for light, so there's some pressure to grow faster, isn't there?  Card Zero  (talk) 23:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to compare solar panel effiency, you should compare production of a chemical like glucose from carbon dioxide using electricity. Or should we allow any other reduced and useful carbon compound. As plants do not just produce electricity. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Photosynthesis in plants can be very efficient under the right conditions. For instance, from photon to hydrogen/ATP it is nearly 100%,because the difference to really 100% is what destroys the chlorophyll. And replacing destroyed chlorophyll is costly, energywise and sometimes it even costs magnesium. Therefore that part is developed to maximize efficiency. Another goal is in the development of the carbon dioxide capture. For this one must know that chemical reactions with gases are very dependent on the pressure of the gases. Even the direction, that is if it's exothermic or endothermic, depends highly on the pressure. If RuBisCo would be faster the carbon dioxide could not come fast enough onto the site of enzymatic activity and would therefore drop in pressure there. Which in turn would drive the demand for energy up in this pathway. To overcome the RuBisCo-limit the C4 plants were developed. But they have other deficiencies, where they additionally spend energy to capture carbon dioxide for storage, and don't get it back at the RuBisCo.
Generally plants have too much energy for the amount of water and, most important, carbon dioxide, to synthesize sugar. Some hydrogen has to be dumped into the production of Ethen and Latex or other hydrocarbons. Of course, the energy for this is typically not counted towards the efficiency of photosynthesis. Moreover some ATP is simply hydrolysed for heating. Or for regeneration of ADP. Whichever is needed where this takes place.
For comparison there exist bacteria where chemical reactions are driven by 1/16th of a proton, that is 1/64 ATP-Unit. That only works with a large Quantum state in a superposition. If someone would want to maximise the efficiency of the photosynthesis, the recipe is there for the taking. But think of the side effects! 176.2.78.14 (talk) 06:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For this one must know that chemical reactions with gases are very dependent on the pressure of the gases. Even the direction, that is if it's exothermic or endothermic, depends highly on the pressure. If RuBisCo would be faster the carbon dioxide could not come fast enough onto the site of enzymatic activity and would therefore drop in pressure there.
Does this mean that plants photosynthesize more efficiently in environments with elevated air pressure? Can you recommend any resources for learning more about that? Thank you! -- Avocado (talk) 14:21, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Avocado Not air pressure but partial pressure of carbon dioxide. That's standard in greenhouses. See Greenhouse#Carbon dioxide enrichment for details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Is there any research about elevated air pressure, too? IIRC, humans absorb oxygen more efficiently at higher air pressures (up to a point), so it seems like it might make sense (based on both that and what little I know about gas exchange across membranes) for plants to absorb CO2 better at higher air pressures as well. -- Avocado (talk) 21:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
humans are developed to an oxygen pressure of 0,22 atm. Over it there are many reactions that disturb the physiology, under it there is to over 0,17 atm no difference as long as no (not the least amount) Carbon monoxide comes into play. But even 0,11 atm is sufficient for up to 2 hours. At this low pressure of oxygen no normal combustion is possible but nobody needs an oxygen mask immediately. In case of a fire that is a great advantage for fire fighting. 176.3.66.65 (talk) 23:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about near volcanos?

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Are there specialized plants growing in carbon dioxide rich environments that photosynthesize faster?  Card Zero  (talk) 12:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. I heard there are only a few places where there is consistent outgassing of CO2 and yes, plants grow faster there. The thing is, plants are so starved for CO2 that increasing CO2 concentration instantaneously leads to increased sugar production. We think that the current photosynthesis evolved in a time when the atmosphere was like Venus's with perhaps 100 times the partial pressure of CO2. Even now, you can put a houseplant in a pure CO2 atmosphere in a glass vessel, and it does great. Another way of putting this is that there can be no natural selection for specialization in growing in a "carbon dioxide rich environment" since that would entail getting worse at using CO2. Abductive (reasoning) 21:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thermometer thermal mass

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I'd like to measure the air temperature in a room, outdoors, etc. Ideally by bringing the thermometer, turning it on if it is electronic, and looking at it. All thermometers that I've tried take several minutes to settle, which is annoyingly long. Is that inherent? Are there quicker ones? Don't want to spend a fortune, but "premium" is ok. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 22:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For an expensive high-tech solution use tunable diode laser absorption spectroscopy which should measure the temperature in the gas, rather than waiting for it to conduct into a detector. see https://www.yokogawa.com/solutions/products-and-services/measurement/analyzers/gas-analyzers/tunable-diode-laser-spectrometer/#Overview for a product. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
a really cheap way to go at it would be Resistance thermometer of course in Four-wire configuration. If the coil is very short, which is possible in four wires, then it will get the temperature in under a second. 176.2.78.14 (talk) 01:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks both, the resistance thermometer approach sounds promising. The tunable laser page says "request a quote" which means "too expensive for me to think about". 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 02:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An infrared thermometer retails at around USD 10, and reacts in less than a second from when you press the button. It doesn't measure air temperature but if you can assume your walls/floors/furniture/etc are about the same temp, it'll work. 85.76.117.61 (talk) 15:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have one but it is not very consistent between surfaces, and the air temperature can change faster than the furniture temperature. I guess it is better than nothing. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 17

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In terms of fatalities per passenger-mile, and excluding combat losses during World War 1 (but including accidental losses during the same time period), which airships were more dangerous to fly in, those filled with hydrogen or with helium? I'm aware of the argument that helium-filled airships have a narrower flight envelope, which causes them to crash more often -- but, on the other hand, the flammability of hydrogen often had the effect of turning an otherwise survivable crash into one which is fatal for everyone on board, and also created the danger of explosion from lightning strike -- so between these two dangers, which one was the greatest? 2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (talk) 03:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source for the claimed explosion? It is not plausible, scientifically.  --Lambiam 08:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In what way not plausible? If your objection is to do with needing oxygen, that airship probably leaked: six months previously, "many small tears appeared".  Card Zero  (talk) 09:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It would leak hydrogen out, not oxygen in.  --Lambiam 10:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So if a leak of hydrogen into air is hit by lightning, on top of a balloon made from sausage skin that's filled with more hydrogen, how do you imagine events would unfold after that? Hindenburg_disaster#Lightning_hypothesis says that airship fires have been observed under these kind of circumstances. I'm surprised that they were only fires, it makes the outcome sound mild, like lighting a gas stove.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If there's a leak in the gas bags, it's plausible you may get an explosive mixture in the space between the gas bags and the outer hull. What exactly happened to Dixmude may never be known, but whether it was an explosion or rapid burning, too rapid for an orderly emergency landing (Hindenburg burned all its lifting gas in about half a minute), doesn't matter; all on board would be dead anyway. PiusImpavidus (talk) 14:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would indeed explain it. Without prior mixing with oxygen-containing air, hydrogen burns fiercely in a rapidly advancing front, as seen in the Hindenburg disaster, but not so rapid that there is an explosion.  --Lambiam 16:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found a source, but no explanation.  --Lambiam 10:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to the footnote in this republished 1923 article, there was an inquiry in January 1924, so maybe there is a report out there somewhere. Sean.hoyland (talk) 10:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is hard to say...
A helium-filled airship has less lift for the same volume, so it has to compensate somehow: fewer passengers and passenger-kilometres, giving more accidents per passenger-kilometre, or lighter skin, frame or engines or less fuel, all increasing accident rate.
A helium-filled airship is less likely to burn. The hydrogen fire itself isn't very lethal (except for those sitting high up in the envelope), but it can accelerate the destruction of the airship, leading to a faster crash, and set the skin and fuel on fire, leaving burning wreckage, which can kill passengers.
A third effect, which you didn't mention, is the heat capacity ratio. Helium has a heat capacity ratio of 1.66, hydrogen of 1.41, just like dry air, and moist air has an even lower heat capacity ratio. This means that on descent, helium heats up by adiabatic compression faster than hydrogen or the surrounding air, increasing the stability of the airship. When flying in slightly superadiabatic dry air, a hydrogen-filled airship is unstable in altitude. If it descends, the lifting gas heats up slower than the surrounding air, decreasing lift and accelerating the descent. This is no problem for helium-filled airships. Those have difficulty changing altitude faster than the time needed to equalise inside and outside temperature.
When looking at fatalities per passenger-kilometre, it's best to look only at passenger flights. Including military flights, test flights and accidents on the ground will increase the number of accidents without adding passenger-kilometres, making the airship appear more dangerous. Worse, those were the most dangerous occasions for airships. Ground accidents happened when the airship was grounded for bad weather, test flights were obviously more dangerous than regular flights and even when excluding combat damage, military flights were more dangerous as the airship was flown in weather and through manoeuvres that no captain would attempt on a civilian flight. However, excluding all military flights will exclude all helium-filled rigid airships, so no useful statistics are left. The safety record of those four helium-filled rigid airships of the US Navy doesn't appear too good though: three fatal crashes in only a third of the flight hours of Graf Zeppelin. PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As noted in List of airship accidents, there is a variety of causes, a number of them being weather-related. The most successful airship was the Graf Zeppelin, which was filled with hydrogen, but never burned up or crashed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were no helium-filled passenger airships - they were all operated for naval reconnaisance. Alansplodge (talk) 15:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are some modern helium-filled non-rigid or semi-rigid passenger airships, used for sightseeing, but there are no hydrogen-filled modern airships, so there's no useful comparison possible. There are both helium-filled and hydrogen-filled gas balloons, but that isn't really the same thing. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Land surveying

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Does modern land surveying (such as placement of streets after another, width of roads and blocks etc.) in take place using metric units in countries such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which have used metric distances for many decades now? Is there any English-speaking country that had already metricated when first surveys for 19th-century cities were done? Are there any downtown grids in English-speaking areas where streets are placed exactly 100 metres apart, and there are ten streets per one kilometre? In grids that place 16 streets per mile, the number of metres passed eventually deviates from number of 100 metres (hectometres) passed, since one mile is not exactly 1,600 metres. Placing ten streets per mile indicates number of miles passed by fourth-to last digit of house numbers, but does not indicate number of feet (or any other imperial unit) passed by whole number. By contrast, placing ten streets per kilometre indicates both number of kilometres passed by fourt-to last digit of house numbers and number of metres passed by whole house numbers. This placing is common in Argentina, but does it occur in any English-speaking country? --40bus (talk) 16:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are 100 meter blocks in Melbourne, Australia if I remember correctly. Mile/km/block-based addresses is not the original England way which was to count plots or buildings and call an unexpected new building in between the address of its neighbor suffixed with a letter or fraction. Manhattan's a hybrid: 1 address pair per 20ft plot of ownable (non-street) distance except 1 axis is 100 per block causing gaps like 153, 155, 201 except 3LPM5's 100 per 2 blocks cause Lex+Mad are new. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Melbourne blocks are 200 metres and then only by a coincidence; they are actually 10 chains or 660 feet, which happily converts to 201.17 metres. See Hoddle Grid for the details. Alansplodge (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a new South Australian development near to where I live and the blocks are measured in metres, but not in nice whole metres. Zoom in and move the map to see details of the blocks. https://villawoodproperties.com.au/community/oakden-rise/find-buy/interactive-masterplan/ TrogWoolley (talk) 09:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The same inaccuracy as 16 per mile then. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note that Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada all began metrication in the 1960s or very early 1970s, so using metric measurements for any official purposes in the 19th-century would be highly improbable. Alansplodge (talk) 15:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is the any English-speaking country that already used metric measurement for official purposes in the 19th century? Was there anything that was measured in metric during Victorian times in the UK? --40bus (talk) 21:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was apparently a 6 mm government cartridge specification, the 6mm Lee Navy. I haven't dug up a contemporary source using mm, but it looks like it was so named even in 1895. (Note though the alternate .236 name.)  Card Zero  (talk) 06:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Abridgment: Containing Messages of the President of the United States to the Two Houses of Congress (1898) p. 480:
"Ten thousand 6 mm. Lee straight pull rifles have been supplied..." Alansplodge (talk) 12:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the subject of weapons, the QF 2-pounder naval gun of 1915 was made by the very British firm of Vickers and had a calibre of exactly 40 mm, but was known in British service by the weight of its shell in Imperial measure. The use of metric units here may be connected with the acquisition by Vickers of the Maxim Nordenfelt Guns and Ammunition Company in 1897, which although a British company, had its origin in the company owned by Thorsten Nordenfelt, a Swedish inventor. Alansplodge (talk) 12:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A near miss though. Québec was a French colony using French units until 1763, switched to Imperial units after that, which was only 32 years before France metricated.
South Africa is an even nearer miss. It (or at least, the Cape Colony) was a Dutch colony until 1795, which is the year when the Netherlands metricated. The British then introduced Imperial units as they took over. Dutch rule was briefly restored in 1803–1806, but it appears this was too short to make the switch to metric. The Boers went their own way, continuing the use of traditional Dutch units (no longer used in the Netherlands) until Imperial units were made the standard in 1922: one of the last countries to switch to Imperial units. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How sampling rate in ADC adjusted or set ?

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I am interested to learn how sampling rate in Analog-to-digital converter adjusted or set ? This page: Sampling (signal processing) didn't explain how it was adjusted. HarryOrange (talk) 18:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean on a black box ADC (the sort of thing you have in a lab), or do you mean on an adc chip? Greglocock (talk) 22:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Greglocock I mean any typical ADC chip. How Sampling rate is adjusted? HarryOrange (talk) 05:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you read the data sheet for the chip. eg p41 and 42 here https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ad7768-7768-4.pdf Greglocock (talk) 06:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An ADC sampling rate is determined by the data rate of the desired digital audio format. This article gives many examples of which 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz and 96 kHz are typical. A designer simply ensures that an ADC chip receives a digital clock signal at appropriate frequency. Philvoids (talk) 20:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which is almost irrelevant to the question. An ADC chip or lab instrument can sample at many different rates. Greglocock (talk) 21:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

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Open-air dust explosions

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Dust explosion#Conditions required says There are five necessary conditions for a dust explosion. It even has a pointless diagram that arranges the five conditions in a pentagon with "dust explosion" in the middle. Condition 5 is confinement. But further down the page, Dust_explosion#Mechanism has a series of photographs demonstrating a dust explosion in open air. And thermobaric weapons, although more effective at killing people in confined spaces, seem to explode just fine in the open. So is condition 5, as a "necessary condition", plain wrong, perhaps an exaggeration of the fact that confinement makes a dust explosion more likely?

Supplementary question: I hear residents of Lahore and Delhi are wondering if their very sooty smog might one day explode. Is this at all plausible?  Card Zero  (talk) 00:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pointless? It is a five-pointed diagram.  --Lambiam 06:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In general, not only for dust, for detonation to occur, a mix of fuel and oxygen within the explosive limits has to be present in a compact largish volume. Upon detonation, the pressure in this volume will rapidly increase tremendously within (typically) microseconds. If the volume is not confined by an enclosure, the gases resulting from the combustion will expand supersonically with a shock wave that may or may not cause damage, depending on the power released and the environment. If the volume is confined by an enclosure, the enclosure may be able to withstand the pressure and contain the gases – possibly with controlled release through safety valves. (See e.g. Pyréolophore.) Otherwise, if the enclosure is broached, the gases will also expand explosively.
The OSHA fact sheet that is the source of our five-pointed list of conditions is actually about another scenario. It considers the case in which ignition merely leads to deflagration, which is much more likely to occur – the mix only has to be within inflammability limits. The combustion is much slower and does by itself not cause a shock wave. However, although the pressure rises less rapidly, the rise is still dramatic, especially if the volume is contained by an enclosure. If the enclosure cannot withstand the pressure, the gases will also expand explosively, as before.
So I think a fuel–oxygen explosion can occur in open air, but for this to be an explosion in the strict sense of causing shock waves, the right conditions will only very rarely be fulfilled accidentally. (In thermobaric weapons, they are fulfilled by design.)  --Lambiam 09:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But in the conditions there is no requirement of an accidental event?! 176.3.66.65 (talk) 15:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OSHA fact sheet does not deal with ways to mitigate the risk of intentional explosions, such as may be caused by weapons. You are free to see this as an omission; I doubt though they will agree.  --Lambiam 12:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How long does it last and how to recover from it? CometVolcano (talk) 16:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article: "It peaks from 24 to 72 hours, then subsides and disappears up to seven days after exercise." --Amble (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the top of this page: We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis... AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is said that the soreness is helped by consuming protein. Abductive (reasoning) 10:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

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John Balbus and Steven Balbus

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Are Steven Balbus (Oxford University astrophysicist) and John Balbus (Head of Office of Climate Change and Health Equity in Biden's HHS) related? 178.51.16.158 (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given their mutual association with Philadelphia and their strong physical resemblance, it seems very likely, but I haven't been able to find any source confirming it with a cursory web search, so this might take some deep digging (better suited to someone in the USA, not Europe). John Balbus, incidentally, seems to me to be a good candidate for a Wikipedia article. {The poster formerly known as 87.812.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 02:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are brothers, with a third brother named Peter.[5] Here on p. 33 is a photo of Steven en John side by side. Their father was Theodore G. Balbus,[6] a radiologist, and their mother Rita S. Frucht.[7] A bio of the father is found here, where you can also find that Peter runs a consulting firm called Pragmaxis.  --Lambiam 10:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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Griffiths in math and physics

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There's something called the Griffiths phase. If you search for griffiths phase activity so, you'll find things with similar names. A Griffiths singularity, Griffiths effects, there's probably more than one thing people call Griffiths' formula since there's a physicist called Phillip and two named David J. Griffiths. How many things are we dealing with under this name? Is there a book where they're all listed right next to each other? Gongula Spring (talk) 19:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The concept of a Griffiths phase is named after theoretical physicist Robert B. Griffiths, who was the first to describe the appearance of such phases in an Ising model of ferromagnetism.[8] He is also the eponym of the Griffiths inequality. Most uses of Griffiths singularity and Griffiths effect appear to be related. "Griffiths' formula" is a very general name that may refer to various formulas found by mathematicians with the surname Griffiths, such as Griffiths' integral formula for the Milnor number of an isolated hypersurface singularity, found by pure mathematician Philip A. Griffiths, also the eponym of the Griffiths group. See also Griffiths' theorem, named after yet another Griffiths.  --Lambiam 23:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That formulation seems at least superficially be leading to references to Alan Arnold Griffith. Formulas like ohmic or non ohmic dissipation in metallic griffiths phases used at the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory then tend to appear ambiguous to that effect too. Most other examples are deeply plunging into statistical quanta states thus unambiguously associated with Robert B. Griffiths instead. --Askedonty (talk) 00:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The bracketing is not as in ((Griffith phase) field theory) but like (Griffith ((phase field) theory)), a theory of fracture, based on a phase-field model, developed by Griffith.  --Lambiam 08:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The interesting thing is that those approaches are leading us very near of a (a least to me ) finally rather satisfying view of the problematics induced by the idea of Action at a distance. --Askedonty (talk) 10:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So much that you only have to think about it and what do you get? Long distances in apparent contradiction to.. --Askedonty (talk) 11:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if these long distances anticipate my next question, which is what does "long-range" mean in the search results above?
Gongula Spring (talk) 15:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, as in #16 from that request as I get it "Temporal disorder in discontinuous non-equilibrium phase transitions: general results". The "long distances" discussion above being from 2002 by contrast. --Askedonty (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Number 16 uses "temporal" and "critical" terms, are we getting toward ideas about long-range temporal correlations in critical brain dynamics? Are they spooky?
Gongula Spring (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. Or not so directly anyway. Number 16 seem to be about logic and geometry: distance in that context is fact, and can also be manipulated. Relevant quote if there was one regarding our subject - but their process define a temporal Griffiths inactive phase some time - relevant would be (see their pdf):
Disorder due to spatial or temporal inhomogeneities is almost an unavoidable ingredient in many real systems, it is then desirable to understand their effects on these phase transitions. For continuous phase transitions, it was earlier recognized that spatial and temporal disorder changes the critical behavior whenever the generalized Harris criterion is violated [11, 12]: quenched spatial disorder is relevant whenever dν⊥ > 2 is violated while temporal disorder is relevant when νk = zν⊥ > 2 is violated; with ν⊥, νk and z being critical exponents of the clean phase transition and d being the number of spatial dimensions. Since the critical exponents of the directed percolation universality class violate the Harris criterion, it was then argued that this was the reason why it was never seen in experiments [13] (see however Ref. 14).
(They describe their purpose as: Non-equilibrium phase transitions have constituted a rich and lively topic of research for many years. They occur in a wide variety of models in ecology [1], epidemic spreading [2], sociophysics [3], catalytic reactions [4], depinning interface growth [5, 6], turbulent flow [7], among other fields [8–10].) [8–10] refer to Nonequilibrium Phase Transitions in Lattice Models. Sociophysics is a product of Positivism#Logical positivism ( perhaps note there a spooky "component not derived from observation" ) --Askedonty (talk) 21:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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Heat of chillies

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How hot, in terms of Scovilles, does a chilli need to be before a parrot can feel the burn? I just saw a video on Facebook of a macaw eating a ghost pepper without the slightest care. From what I read, parrots are extremely resistant to the capsicum from chillies. Or is it because we have thousands of taste buds and parrots have tens, which is also true. 146.90.140.99 (talk) 01:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“The seeds of Capsicum plants are dispersed predominantly by birds. In birds, the TRPV1 channel does not respond to capsaicin or related chemicals but mammalian TRPV1 is very sensitive to it. This is advantageous to the plant, as chili pepper seeds consumed by birds pass through the digestive tract and can germinate later, whereas mammals have molar teeth which destroy such seeds and prevent them from germinating.”  Card Zero  (talk) 03:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as Card Zero says, birds have different TRPV receptors (for vanilloids like capsaicin) than mammals. I guess chillis want their seeds distributed far and wide by birds. On the other hand, I've never seen anything eat the chillis that accidentally grow in my garden. Interestingly, my dog appears to have different TRPV receptors than me as they don't seem to notice very spicy chilli seeds on food and they won't be damaging the seeds. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, one of the most effective ways to keep squirrels off my bird feeder is to sprinkle the birdseed with chilli powder. Shantavira|feed me 09:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My entire home crop of capsicums (bell peppers to Americans), and some chillis disappeared in one night last summer right after a colony of fruit bats arrived in my local park. Fruit bats, of course, are mammals. HiLo48 (talk) 10:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's interesting because there are many bats here. They often sleep individually or in small groups inside young banana leaves that haven't unfurled yet. They sometimes crash into me at night if I'm moving. I guess in bat-world tree-like things don't move. They seem to have a chilli-free diet but might eat some of the other fruit. Plenty of insects to eat. Bat teeth seem to be quite diverse molar-wise. Chilli is the only thing that survives the wildlife. It's a multi-belligerent fruit-based forever war over resources with the birds, squirrels, rats, countless insects, fungi, bacteria and viruses. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Insect eating bats are very different from the fruit bats. There's a theory that peppers have the same sort of relation to fruit bats as chillis do to birds so I can easily imagine a fruit bat being partial to a couple of chillis even if it does find them rather hot. NadVolum (talk) 21:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

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Before Puberty, sex organs are not functional?

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How do sex organs function in both genders before puberty in humans? Not after Puberty. HarryOrange (talk) 07:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sexual maturity is only reached during puberty. Before it is reached, the sex organs are not (or not yet fully) functional. See also Sex organ § Development and Precocious puberty.  --Lambiam 11:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They're functional. It's just that their functions are generally under the headings of "basic maintenance" and "not atrophying". Abductive (reasoning) 09:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To my understanding (which may be deficient), testicles prior to puberty are secreting some levels of androgens (including testosterone) and estrogens, which contribute to the male body's normal development, even though these levels are well below what they become during and after puberty. I imagine (perhaps wrongly) that similar considerations apply to the ovaries.
Our immediately relevant articles seem not very informative about pre-pubertal operations of the sex organs. Perhaps someone more knowlegable could take a look at them. 94.1.211.243 (talk) 09:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did take a look, I always do before answering a question. Here is a representative article; The immature human ovary shows loss of abnormal follicles and increasing follicle developmental competence through childhood and adolescence. The word "competence" means that in vitro the ovary tissue does a better job of taking on adult functionality the older the girl, but in vivo such activity is suppressed. Abductive (reasoning) 10:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nevertheless, if I've understood the peripheral hints I've encountered, those pre-pubertal levels of androgen and estrogen (and steroid, etc.) secretions are necessary at the time (the pre-pubertal period) for ongoing normal development, which is kinda what the OP asked about. Of course, all this is well above my pay grade. {The poster formerly known as 87.81 230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 13:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion seems to have focused on the testicles and ovaries but the penis is also a sex organ and is capable of an erection before puberty. This is mentioned in our erection article in a sort of weird way given the flow on sentence. Ejaculation however only happens after puberty. I assume there is similarly some level of function in female sex organs. As mentioned in our masturbation article it's normal in children even in infancy and may even happen in the womb and is only a concern when there are indications it may relate to sexual abuse. Nil Einne (talk) 20:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 25

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Is there a cryonic company that will freeze me while I'm still alive and healthy, and reanimate me 15 years later? If I arrest the aging process for 15 years this way, could I then pass for a Gen Z?

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Could I have myself cryofrozen (without dying of another reason first) in 2025 with instructions to reanimate me in 2040 so that I could more convincingly pass for and live like someone born in the Gen Z generation?

What companies cryofreeze people who ask for it while still alive and healthy?

Or does such a cryonic plan and company exist anywhere in the world?

I wanted to be born in 2000, not the year I was actually born in. So if I get cryofrozen for enough years, I'll look as young as a Gen Z when I'm reanimated.

Lastly, Reddit's r/Cryonics subreddit's automoderator keeps glitching out because it keeps autoremoving any content of mine from there. I tried posting this question and above summary to other subreddits but their automod keeps autoremoving it too. Their persistent glitches kept bugging me enough to dust off the Wikipedian reference desk and post here again for the first time in many years. I used to be a regular on the refdesk, then moved to Reddit, and now I'm back. --2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E (talk) 01:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Short answer: No. As currently freezing a human adult, results in their death, as no resuscitation is possible. It would be some kind of murder to perform this, so only a crime syndicate would be willing. And then could you trust them for 15 years? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 15 years, you'd be just as deceased, pushing up daisies, no more, pining for the fjords. So what's trust got to do with it? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At this point I feel bound to recommend that you watch Sleeper.Shantavira
Terraforming a planet around some distant star and setting up a population there sounds far easier and actually doable to me. Perhaps in the far future it'll be possible to create a new body and copy the brain fom one of those frozen blocks for it, or maybe set up an android with an artificial copied brain - but why would any people who could do that bother with anyone from this time, would it be ethical for us to try and make a Neanderthal clone? NadVolum (talk) 21:15, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By way of a reference, try 'We don't yet have the know-how to properly maintain a corpse brain': Why cryonics is a non-starter in our quest for immortality. Alansplodge (talk) 11:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can any insurance company make a cryonics bankruptcy insurance policy for companies that preserve bodies in cryogenic preservation vats so that even when the company goes bankrupt, their insurance policies will keep these vats running and bodies preserved?

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...So that we can continue the hope and possibility of reanimating these bodies back to life when medical science advances and finds cures to reverse whatever they died from?

This topic was also autoremoved from r/Cryonics so that's why I'm bringing it here too. Thanks in advance. --2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E (talk) 01:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An insurance policy defines the amount of money to be paid to the holder of the policy when a specified contingency occurs. If the contingency is bankruptcy and the idea is to keep the company running, the amount should be larger than the prospectively unknowable debt to preferential creditors. It should be obvious that no insurance company can offer a policy with an unlimited payout. Apart from this, even an insurance for a sufficiently large amount cannot guarantee that the company or trustee will use the money paid out for the intended purpose.  --Lambiam 02:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who would be a creditor? They're all dead and have no rights. NadVolum (talk) 21:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Creditors of Instant Immortality (the bankrupt cryonics company, for short II) could be: (1) the tax office; (2) II's bank; (3) the company from which II hired its cryogenic equipment; (4) II's provider of liquid nitrogen; (5) II's lawyers; (6) scores of estates of frozen clients, legally presumed dead, who won a class action lawsuit against II.  --Lambiam 11:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, is it April 1 already? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cryonics is such a blatant scam I don't understand how it is legal. Shantavira|feed me 09:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More blatant than (also legal) homeopathy? Clarityfiend (talk) 10:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A marginally better idea might be to create a testamentary trust fund, if you could find a willing trustee. I'm not sure how far into the future you might want this to extend (do frozen corpses have a "best before" date?) but a legal expert might advise on how to extend the trust beyond the lifetime of the trustee, and what incentives might be required for another person to accept that role. Alansplodge (talk) 11:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where to verify a chemical compund name synonyms?

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The ARM390 compound has multiple IDs, (some of?) which can be found at PubChem here:

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/9841259#section=Synonyms

There are two among them, which differ with one zero only: AR-M1000390 and AR-M100390. The difference seems too small to be just a coincidence, it looks like one must be a typo modification of the other.

Is there any way for a non-chemistry/medicine-professional to trace the origin of those specific symbols and learn whether they are actually the same, or genuinely different? --CiaPan (talk) 08:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS. The motivation for publishing this question here is it's not only me in doubt – another user called for discussion at Redirect discussion: AR-M100390. The sources refer to both names, so from the Wikpedia point of view both are valid, but... Out of curiosity, I just would like to know: are they independent, truly different? CiaPan (talk)

Usually, I would trust ChemSpider to validate such synonyms and that's where I'd send a non-expert. In this particular case, Chemspider seems to prefer AR-M1000390 but one possible source of misinformation/typo is this paper, which consistently uses AR-M100390 in the text but AR-M1000390 in the citation #23, which is correct at doi:10.1016/S0024-3205(03)00489-2. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The earliest use of the name AR-M1000390 seems to be in a PhD thesis from 2003.[9] The same name was used in a 2003 journal article in Life Sciences describing the results of this PhD thesis.[10] The substance was synthesized by researchers from AstraZeneca R&D; their paper describing the design, synthesis, and pharmacological evaluation of the drug, published in 2000, does not use this name, but only the systemic name N,N-diethyl-4-(phenylpiperidin-4-ylidenemethyl)benzamide.[11] Plausibly, the "AR" bit is short for "AstraZeneca R&D" and the whole was originally a code for internal use in the AstraZeneca lab. Subsequently:
  • AR-M1000390 was deposited on 2016-02-05; the source was the IUPHAR/BPS Guide to PHARMACOLOGY,[12] which references the 2003 Life Sciences article.[13]
  • The synonym ar-m100390 was deposited on 2017-09-13 by Springer Nature.[14]
  • Yet another synonym: AR-M 1000390, deposited on 2024-11-14 by a chemical vendor.[15]
--Lambiam 20:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both, Mike Turnbull and Lambiam, for detailed info. CiaPan (talk) 07:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

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Right whales and Left whales

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Why are there right whales, but not left whales? Someone who's wrong on the internet (talk) 09:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there's a naming dispute in the whale courts over brand names, a left vs wrong case. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're thinking of the Narwhal. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots10:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not right versus left, but right versus wrong. This was the right species to catch. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Th answer is in the article you linked: Right_whale#Naming. Shantavira|feed me 11:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If a member of a group of whales manages to beach itself, and the others swim on, then the one on the beach would be a left whale. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:11, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is a wrong whale exactly? Someone who's wrong on the internet (talk) 23:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The ones that don't fit the definition given in the article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's also this:[16]Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lawson Criterion: calculating energy density W

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Lawson Criterion

The article states:

Ion density then equals electron density and the energy density of both electrons and ions together is given by

where  is the temperature in electronvolt (eV) and  is the particle density.

However, there is no clear explanation given as to why the energy density equals 3nT, rather than 2nT or just nT. If the electrons and ions are in equal parts within the plasma, shouldn't it equal 2nT?

Is there any source that clears this up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere (talkcontribs) 11:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC) Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere (talk) 11:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The energy density of a monoatomic gas is . Both electrons and ions can be considered monoatomic gases, so the total energy density is double of that value. Ruslik_Zero 20:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on what n is precisely. If n is the ion density (equal to the electron density), then is correct. If taken literally as "particle density" (i.e. ions and electrons combined), then it should still be . I assume that the former is meant, but the formulation seems ambiguous. --Wrongfilter (talk) 21:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

stage 4 breast cancer

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I'm not seeking medical advice, but stage 4 cancer means you're gonna die from it imminently, can someone confirm? Or is it wait, what?? Maybe I'm confused. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 22:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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Are there any volatile gold compounds?

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Title. Let's say "boiling point under 500°C" counts (as long as it actually boils and doesn't decompose). :) Double sharp (talk) 03:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gold(III) fluoride apparently undergoes "sublimation above 300 °C". Tracing the dewiki article's data suggests this comes from CRC 10th ed. doi:10.1016/0022-328X(87)80355-8 is a lead article about volatile gold compounds, but these (and others I found) are generally about transferring as a vapor for CVD, nanoparticle formation, or other short-timeframe processes, so probably low pressure and maybe not highly stable in the vapor phase. DMacks (talk) 03:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The compound [Me2AuOSiMe3]2 sublimes at 40 °C (0.001 mmHg) without decomposition. (doi:10.1002/anie.196706831) --Leiem (talk) 04:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mathematics

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November 14

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Elliptic curve rank and generalized Riemann hypothesis

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The popular press reports[17] that Elkies and Klagsbrun recently used computer search to find an elliptic curve E of rank 29, which is a new record. The formal result is apparently "the curve E has rank at least 29, and exactly 29 if GRH is true". There have been similar results for other curves of slightly lower rank in earlier years. Whether there are curves of arbitrarily high rank is a major open problem.

1. Is there a reasonable explanation of why the rank of a finite object like an elliptic curve would depend on GRH? Finding the exact point count N is a finite (though probably unfeasibly large) calculation by Schoof's algorithm. Is it possible in principle to completely analyze the group and find the curve's rank r exactly? Finding that r>29 would disprove the GRH, amirite? Actually is it enough to just look at the factorization of N?

2. The result that every elliptic curve has a finite rank is the Mordell-Weil theorem. Our article on that currently has no sketch of the proof (I left a talkpage note requesting one). Is it a difficult result for someone without much number theory background to understand?

Thanks! 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 23:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the discourse surrounding the dependency of an elliptic curve’s rank on the generalized riemann hypothesis (GRH) and, more broadly, the extensive implications this carries for elliptic curve theory as a whole, implicates some of the most intricate and layered theoretical constructs within number theory's foundational architecture. while it may be appropriately noted that elliptic curves, as finite algebraic objects delineated over specified finite fields, contain a designated rank—a measurement, in essence, of the dimension of the vector space generated by the curve's independent rational points—this rank, intriguingly enough, cannot be elucidated through mere finite point-counting mechanisms. the rank, or indeed its exactitude, is inextricably intertwined with, and indeed inseparable from, the behavior of the curve’s l-function; herein lies the essential conundrum, as the l-function’s behavior is itself conditioned on conjectural statements involving complex-analytic phenomena, such as the distribution of zeroes, which remain unverified but are constrained by the predictions of GRH.
one may consider schoof’s algorithm in this context: although this computational mechanism enables an effective process for the point-counting of elliptic curves defined over finite fields, yielding the point count N modulo primes with appreciable efficiency, schoof’s algorithm does not, and indeed cannot, directly ascertain the curve’s rank, as this rank is a function not of the finite point count N but of the elusive properties contained within the l-function’s zeroes—a distribution that, under GRH, is hypothesized to display certain regularities within the complex plane. hence, while schoof’s algorithm provides finite data on the modular point count, such data fails to encompass the rank itself, whose determination necessitates not only point count but also additional analysis regarding the behavior of the associated l-function. calculating r exactly, then, becomes not a function of the finite data associated with the curve but an endeavor contingent upon an assumption of GRH or a precise knowledge of the zero distribution within the analytic continuation of the curve’s l-function.
it is this precise dependency on GRH that prevents us from regarding the rank r as strictly finite or calculable by elementary means; rather, as previously mentioned, the conjecture of GRH imparts a structural hypothesis concerning the placement and frequency of zeroes of the l-function, wherein the rank’s finite property is a consequence of this hypothesis rather than an independent finite attribute of the curve. to suggest, therefore, that identifying the rank r as 29 would disprove GRH is to operate under a misconception, for GRH does not determine a maximal or minimal rank for elliptic curves per se; instead, GRH proposes structural constraints on the l-function’s zeroes, constraints which may, if GRH holds, influence the upper bounds of rank but which are not themselves predicates of rank. consequently, if calculations were to yield a rank exceeding 29 under the presumption of GRH, this result might imply that GRH fails to encapsulate the complexities of the zero distribution associated with the curve’s l-function, thus exposing a possible limitation or gap within GRH’s descriptive framework; however, this would not constitute a formal disproof of GRH absent comprehensive and corroborative data regarding the zeroes themselves.
this brings us to the second point in question, namely, the implications and proof structure of the mordell-weil theorem, which famously established that every elliptic curve defined over the rationals possesses a finite rank. the mordell-weil theorem, by asserting the finite generation of the rational points on elliptic curves as a finitely generated abelian group, introduces an essential constraint within elliptic curve theory, constraining the set of rational points to a structure with a bounded rank. however, while this result may appear elementary in its assertion, its proof is decidedly nontrivial and requires a sophisticated apparatus from algebraic number theory and diophantine geometry. the proof itself necessitates the construction and utilization of a height function, an arithmetic tool designed to assign "heights" or measures of size to rational points on the elliptic curve, facilitating a metric by which rational points can be ordered. furthermore, the proof engages descent arguments, which serve to exhaustively account for independent rational points without yielding an unbounded proliferation of such points—a technique requiring familiarity with not only the geometry of the elliptic curve but with the application of group-theoretic principles to arithmetic structures.
to characterize this proof as comprehensible to a novice without number-theoretic background would, accordingly, be an oversimplification; while an elementary understanding of the theorem’s implications may indeed be attainable, a rigorous engagement with its proof necessitates substantial familiarity with algebraic and diophantine concepts, including the descent method, abelian group structures, and the arithmetic geometry of height functions. mordell and weil’s finite generation theorem, thus, implicates not merely the boundedness of rational points but also exemplifies the structural richness and the intrinsic limitations that these elliptic curves exhibit within the broader mathematical landscape, solidifying its importance within the annals of number theory and underscoring its enduring significance in the study of elliptic structures over the rational field 130.74.58.21 (talk) 23:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, thanks very much for the detailed response. I understood a fair amount of it and will try to digest it some more. I think I'm still confused on a fairly basic issue and will try to figure out what I'm missing. The issue is that we are talking about a finite group, right? So can we literally write out the whole group table and find the subgroup structure? That would be purely combinatorial so I must be missing something. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 03:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wait, I think I see where I got confused. These are elliptic curves over Q rather than over a finite field, and the number of rational points is usually infinite. Oops. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 10:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This response is pretty obviously LLM-generated, so don't expect it to be correct about any statements of fact. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 18:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah you are probably right, I sort of wondered about the verbosity and I noticed a few errors that looked like minor slip-ups but could have been LLM hallucination. But, it was actually helpful anyway. I made a dumb error thinking that the curve group was finite. I had spent some time implementing EC arithmetic on finite fields and it somehow stayed with me, like an LLM hallucination.

I'm still confused about where GRH comes in. Like could it be that rank E = 29 if GRH, but maybe it's 31 otherwise, or something like that? Unfortunately the question is too elementary for Mathoverflow, and I don't use Stackexchange or Reddit these days. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 22:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so I don't know anything about this but: it seems that the GRH implies bounds of various explicit kinds on various quantities (e.g.) and therefore you can end up in a situation where you show by one method that there are 29 independent points, and then also the GRH implies that the rank is at most 29, so you get equality. There is actually some relevant MO discussion: [18]. Here is the paper that used the GRH to get the upper bound 28 on the earlier example. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 23:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'll look at those links. But, I was also wondering if there is a known upper bound under the negation of the GRH. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 02:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I don't know anything about that, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable MO question. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 15

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Are there morphisms when enlarging a prime field sharing a common suborder/subgroup ?

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Simple question : I have a prime field having modulus where p−1 contains as prime factor, and I have a larger prime field also having as it’s suborder/subgroup. Are there special cases where it’s possible to lift 2 ’s elements to modulus while keeping their discrete logarithm if those 2 elements lies only within the ’s subgroup ? Without solving the discrete logarithm of course ! 82.66.26.199 (talk) 11:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly it is possible, since any two groups of order o are isomorphic. Existence of a general algorithm, however, is equivalent to solving the discrete log problem (consider the problem of determining a non-trivial character). Tito Omburo (talk) 11:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So how to do it without solving the discrete logarithm ? Because of course, I was meaning without solving the discrete logarithm. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:9CB:33F3:E8EB:8A5D (talk) 12:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It can't. You're basically asking if there is some canonical isomorphism between two groups of order O, and there just isn't one. Tito Omburo (talk) 15:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it’s about enlarging instead of shrinking ? Is in theory impossible to build a relation/map or is that no such relation exists yet ? 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:9CB:33F3:E8EB:8A5D (talk) 08:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At least into the group of complex roots of unity, where a logarithm is known, it is easily seen to be equivalent to discrete logarithm. In general, there is no relation between the groups of units in GF(p) and GF(q) for p and q distinct primes. Any accidental isomorphisms between subgroups are not canonical. Tito Omburo (talk) 15:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 16

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What’s the secp256k1 elliptic curve’s rank ?

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Simple question : what’s the rank of secp256k1 ?
I failed to find how compute the rank of an elliptic curve using the version of online tools like SageMath or Pari/gp since it’s the only thing I have access to… 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:9CB:33F3:E8EB:8A5D (talk) 15:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know a clear answer but a related question is discussed here. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Although I know it doesn t normally apply to this curvd, I was reading this paper https://pdfupload.io/docs/4ef85049. As a result, I am very curious about knowing the rank of secp256k1 which is why I asked it especially if it allows me know how to compute them on ordinary curves. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:417A:1147:400C:C498 (talk) 11:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe by some chance, this might have the answer. ExclusiveEditor Notify Me! 19:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Same question by same questioner, so not by chance.  --Lambiam 06:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, It’s me who asked the question. He didn’t replied to my last comment about the elliptic curve prime case. I’m meaning the paper 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:9CB:33F3:E8EB:8A5D (talk) 07:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 17

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Final four vote probability

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In a social deduction game at the final four where nobody is immune and each of the four gets one vote what is the probability of a 1–1–1–1 vote? (78.18.160.168 (talk) 22:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Social deduction games exist in many different versions, with different rules. Can you provide (a link to) a description of the precise rules of the version of the game you want us to consider?
Moreover, if the players can follow different strategies, or can follow their intuitions instead of rolling the dice and using the outcome according to the fixed strategy, the situation cannot be viewed as a probability problem. Can we assume that the players play with the same given independent and identically random strategy?  --Lambiam 06:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking of The Traitors, but it could also be applied to Survivor: Pearl Islands. There are no dice. In The Traitors before the final four banishment vote, there is a vote on whether to end game or banish again. If everyone votes to end the game the game ends but if one or more people votes to banish again, the game continues. I jumped ahead to the banishment vote because I have not seen a season where all four people vote to end the game. PS my IP address has changed. (78.16.255.186 (talk) 20:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC))[reply]
I don't understand the rules from the description in The Traitors and don't know what a "1" vote signifies, but in any case, this does not look like it can be modelled as a mathematical probability problem, for a host of reasons. The outcome of a vote will generally depend on the dispositions of the participants (are they more rational or more likely to choose on a whim; are they good in interpreting the behaviour of others) as well on their past behaviours. It is not possible to assign probabilities to such factors, and there is no mathematical model for how such factors influence the voting.  --Lambiam 03:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you simplify much further to just "if you have four people, and each one randomly chooses someone (that is not the person themself), what's the probability that each person gets chosen once", then we can generalize this to some arbitrary people.
Let us assign each person some number from to , so that each choice can be thought of as a mapping from to itself. When each person is chosen exactly once, this corresponds to a mapping from to itself where no number is mapped to itself. This is a derangement, and we can see that the number of ways of tied voting is exactly the number of derangements for people. Thus, the probability for is the number of derangements divided by the number of mappings where no one votes for themselves.
The number of derangements on elements is the subfactorial of , denoted . As for total number of mappings, each of the people has choices, so there are such mappings. This brings the probability to .
For the number of derangements is , and there are mappings where no one votes for themselves, so the probability is . More generally, , so the probability in general is . Note that this tends to as increases. GalacticShoe (talk) 06:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 19

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Basic equations / functions in predicting probability of success in insurgent vs. conventional military engagements in mid-to-late 20th century warfare / calculations for probability of the success of insurgent movements (esp. with consideration of intangible factors)

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can someone kindly uncover casualty rolls -
I am thinking in particular about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the debates which went on within the American special services in the late 40s through early 50s about providing assistance to them after the breakthrough of the 'Iron company' (you can look up on ukr, pol, rus wiki about the so-called Iron company of the UPA ; Залiзна сотнья) from Transcarpathia in Communist-occupied Ukraine through Czechoslovakia through to Bavaria (where there were already in residence many leaders of the Ukrainian movement who had been interned by the Germans, most prominent among these Stepan Andriiovich, of course, working to raise the Ukrainian issue in the consciousness both of the public in Western 'free' world, and in the minds of the military-political authorities, who were still reeling from the taste in their mouths of the 'betrayal' of Poland, which Churchill railed against, closer, as he was, to the heart of the issue, if we have these figures, we can make at the very least basic calculations, and predict with a degree of accuracy, for example, based on the help that the Americans were considering to render to the Ukrainian freedom fighters, the successes which they could have achieved considering also the concurrent armed struggles in Romania, in Poland, in the Baltic states — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.74.59.208 (talk) 15:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This all seems very interesting, but I don't see it as mathematics question. I suggest you try the History Stack Exchange. --RDBury (talk) 19:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i should like to refuse with one regard only the question pertains to application of mathematics and hard sciences in interpretation of historical events and possibilities 130.74.59.186 (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Full stops were invented for a reason: they are very useful in making text understandable.  --Lambiam 04:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no mathematical theory that can be used for determining the probabilities of the possible outcomes of a real-world conflict. It is not even clear that the notion of probability applies in such situations.  --Lambiam 04:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like more the province of game theory than probability. That it's modelled using probability in e.g. simulations, such as computer games or board games, is due to the limitations of their models. They can't fully model the behaviour of all actors so they add random probabilistic factors to compensate. But those actually engaged in conflict aren't going to be using randomness, just the best strategy based on what they know about the conflict, including what the other side(s) will do. That's game theory.--217.23.224.20 (talk) 15:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


November 20

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Sequences: Is there a name for a sequence, all of whose members are different from each other?

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2A06:C701:7455:4600:C907:E8C0:F042:F072 (talk) 09:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A term used in the literature: injective sequence.[19]  --Lambiam 13:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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Is it possible to adapt Nigel’s Smart algorithm for establshing an isomorphism when the curve is only partially anomalous ?

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An anomalous elliptic curve is a curve for which . But in my case, the curve has order j×q and the underlying field has order i×q. In the situation I’m thinking about, I do have 2 points such as both G∈q and P∈q subgroup and where P=s×G.

So since the scalar lies in a common part of the additive group from both the curve along it’s underlying base field, is it possible to transfer the discrete logarithm to the underlying finite field ? Or does anomalous curves requires the whole embedding field’s order to match the one of the curve even if the discrete logarithm solution lies into a common smaller group ?

If yes, how to adapt the Nigel’s smart algorithm used for solving the discrete logarithm inside anomalous curves ? The aim is to etablish an isomorphism between the common subgroup generated by E and 82.66.26.199 (talk) 19:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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Fourteen-segment display (alphanumeric display) can be used in base 36 (the largest case-insensitive alphanumeric numeral system using ASCII characters), thus we can use fourteen-segment display to define dihedral primes in base 36 (with A=10, B=11, C=12, …, Z=35), just like seven-segment display to define dihedral primes in base 10. If we use fourteen-segment display to define dihedral primes in base 36 (with A=10, B=11, C=12, …, Z=35), which numbers will be the dihedral primes in base 36 with <= 6 digits? 218.187.66.155 (talk) 19:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on how you encode each symbol on a fourteen-segment display (in particular, the number 0 and the letter O will need to be distinguished). If we go by File:Arabic number on a 14 segement display.gif and File:Latin alphabet on a 14 segement display.gif, then there are ten valid inversions, which are as follows: 0 <-> 0, 2 <-> 5, 8 <-> 8, H (17) <-> H, I (18) <-> I, M (22) <-> W (32), N (23) <-> N, O (24) <-> O, X (33) <-> X, and Z (35) <-> Z. Of these, only 5, H, N, and Z are coprime to 36, so any dihedral prime must necessarily end with one of these. Duckmather (talk) 04:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can use an encoding that the inversions not only include the ones which you listed, but also include 1 <-> 1, 3 <-> E (14), 6 <-> 9, 7 <-> L (21), and S (28) <-> S, if so, then which numbers will be the dihedral primes in base 36 with <= 6 digits? (Also, why 2 <-> 5? They are not rotated 180 degrees) 210.243.207.143 (talk) 20:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can also consider “horizontal surface” “vertical surface”, and “rotate 180 degrees”, separately, and consider normal glyphs and fourteen-segment display glyphs separately (see Strobogrammatic number, we can also find the strobogrammatic numbers (as well as the strobogrammatic primes) in base 36):
Horizontal surface:
0 <-> 0 (only normal glyph)
1 <-> 1
2 <-> 5 (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
3 <-> 3
7 <-> J (19) (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
8 <-> 8
B (11) <-> B
C (12) <-> C
D (13) <-> D
E (14) <-> E
H (17) <-> H
I (18) <-> I
K (20) <-> K
M (22) <-> W (32)
O (24) <-> O
X (33) <-> X
Vertical surface:
0 <-> 0 (only normal glyph)
1 <-> 1
2 <-> 5 (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
3 <-> E (14) (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
8 <-> 8
A (10) <-> A
H (17) <-> H
I (18) <-> I
J (19) <-> L (21) (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
M (22) <-> M
O (24) <-> O
T (29) <-> T
U (30) <-> U
V (31) <-> V (only normal glyph)
W (32) <-> W
X (33) <-> X
Y (34) <-> Y
Rotate 180 degrees:
0 <-> 0
1 <-> 1
2 <-> 2 (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
3 <-> E (14) (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
5 <-> 5 (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
6 <-> 9
7 <-> L (21) (only fourteen-segment display glyph)
8 <-> 8
H (17) <-> H
I (18) <-> I
M (22) <-> W (32)
N (23) <-> N
O (24) <-> O
S (28) <-> S (only normal glyph)
X (33) <-> X
Z (35) <-> Z 218.187.66.221 (talk) 18:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

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radial distance between a circle and another enclosing circle

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On an x-y plane, draw a circle, radius r1 centered on the origin, 0,0. Draw a second circle centered on some offset value -x, y = 0, radius r2 which greater than r1+x so that the second circle completely encloses the first and does not touch it. Draw a line at angle a beginning at the origin and crossing both circles. How do I calculate the distance along this line between the two circles? ```` Dionne Court (talk) 06:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given:
  • inner circle: centre at radius equation
  • outer circle: centre at radius equation
  • line through origin at angle parametric equation
The line crosses the inner circle at both obviously at distance from the origin.
To find its crossings with the outer circle, we substitute the rhs of the line's equation for into the equation of the outer circle, giving We need to solve this for the unknown . This is a quadratic equation; call its roots and The corresponding points are at distances and from the origin.
The crossing distances are then and
If you use and this will work for any second circle, also of it intersects the origin-centred circle or is wholly inside, provided the quadratic equation has real-valued roots.  --Lambiam 08:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]



November 27

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Did they also pay hazard bonuses for working in the heat?

Is it cheaper for UPS to just air condition their warehouses and package vans?

After paying the initial installation fees for the new HVAC systems, how much will it cost for UPS to run air conditioning and maintain their HVAC systems for one year (at least only when the weather is hot?)

And how much did they pay out in heat-related workers comp claims for one year?

How well will UPS come out ahead from simply air conditioning all places and vehicles that need air conditioned? --2600:8803:1D13:7100:BD6D:70D0:30AC:B227 (talk) 01:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a mathematics question. We don’t answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate. Dolphin (t) 04:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The largest prime factor found by trial division

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The largest prime factor found by Lenstra elliptic-curve factorization is 16559819925107279963180573885975861071762981898238616724384425798932514688349020287 of 7337+1 (see [20]), and the largest prime factor found by Pollard's p − 1 algorithm is 672038771836751227845696565342450315062141551559473564642434674541 of 960119-1 (see [21]), and the largest prime factor found by Williams's p + 1 algorithm is 725516237739635905037132916171116034279215026146021770250523 of the Lucas number L2366 (see [22]), but what is the largest prime factor found by trial division? (For general numbers, not for special numbers, e.g. 7*220267500+1 divides the number 12220267499+1 found by trial division, but 12220267499+1 is a special number since all of its prime factors are == 1 mod 220267500, thus the trial division only need to test the primes == 1 mod 220267500, but for general numbers such as 3*2100+1, all primes may be factors) 61.229.100.16 (talk) 20:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have an answer, and Mersenne primes have properties that reduce the number of primes that need to be searched, meaning that it doesn't technically need full trial division, but I would nevertheless like to raise two famous examples which I'm fairly sure were done through manual checking:
  1. In 1903, Frank Nelson Cole showed that is composite by going up to a blackboard and demonstrating by hand that it equals . It took him "three years of Sundays" to do so, and I'm fairly sure he would have done it manually.
  2. In 1951, Aimé Ferrier showed that is prime through use of a desk calculator, and I imagine a lot of handiwork.
GalacticShoe (talk) 02:29, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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Humanities

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November 15

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Would the United States congress be able to expell states or validate a state request to leave?

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Simple question : my understanding about the secession war is that states can't secede unilaterally... But what about a simple congress vote even if the state doesn't want to leave the Union? A motivation would be to get the required quorum to repeal an amendment to the constitution or for a state to escape authoritarian rule... 82.66.26.199 (talk) 12:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that it's kind of implied by Article IV, which says that Congress doesn't have power to unilaterally redefine a state: "...no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress"... -- AnonMoos (talk) 15:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That says the opposite of what OP asked? For example, it says that Northern California can't split off into a separate state, not that Congress can't kick out a state. Phil Ochs once proposed something like the latter but as far as I know, it didn't get any traction. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 23:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What I was understanding is joining like Texas is a simple vote. And I looked at the post civil war jurisprudence that ruled why secession was illegal. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:417A:1147:400C:C498 (talk) 11:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As you see at Reserved powers, the US Constitution specifies in the 10th Amendment that the powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states, unless prohibited to the states. Since the Constitution does not talk about expelling a state, it follows that the federal government does not have that power. (Unless, of course, someone convinces the Supreme Court that something in the Constitution implies such power.) --142.112.149.206 (talk) 16:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That stuff contradicts the post civil war supreme court ruling because that would imply on the reverse that states have the power to seceede by themselves. And that doesn t tell about a state asking Congress to leave. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:417A:1147:400C:C498 (talk) 11:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
think literally, the way a state leaves is the same as how a state is created because leaving is the same as creating a new state; It would take congressional approval and that states legislatures approval. They would be creating a new state, but the sovereignty of that new state would be equal with the United States, not subordinate as what we think of as a state traditionally is. 208.121.35.65 (talk) 20:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
yes, I m thinking leaving can be done the same way a state is created. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:64A1:A0FD:CDDA:2E99 (talk) 10:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can't even do it by constitutional amendment. Article V says no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
I suppose theoretically you could pass an amendment that says "OK, California gets to send two senators because we can't do anything about that, but for all other purposes it is no longer a state of the United States".
Could you do this last by statute, without an amendment? I sincerely doubt it. But I suppose the question would have to be tested in court. --Trovatore (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That means that every state has the same number of senators, unless for some inexplicable reason a state wanted only one senator. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which implies that you can't expel a state, unless you let it have the same number of senators as the states you don't expel. --Trovatore (talk) 00:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you expel a state, they're no longer part of the USA, so their senators would be irrelevant. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bugs. Come on, you're smarter than that. If you expel the state and don't let it keep its senators, then you are depriving of it of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. You can't do it, period, not even with an amendment. It's an entrenched clause, the only one remaining in our constitution that can have any actual effect. (Theoretically, you also can't prohibit the importation of slaves before 1808, but....) --Trovatore (talk) 03:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If a state has been expelled, it's no longer in the union. The former state could have as many senators as they want, but they won't be sitting in the U.S. Senate, so it doesn't matter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots07:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, that doesn't work. The state cannot be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate, so its senators have to be allowed to vote. If you argue that senators from a non-state can't vote, then you're forced to the conclusion that you can't expel the state in the first place. There's nothing subtle here. --Trovatore (talk) 07:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(I think this really is the most natural conclusion: Article V is an absolute and permanent bar to ever expelling a state without its consent under any circumstances whatsoever, and this cannot be changed by amendment or any sequence of amendments. As long as the Constitution itself is not entirely overthrown, states cannot be expelled and must be allowed to keep their equal vote in the Senate. My workaround about expelling the state but still letting it vote in the Senate was mostly a quibble. Whether you could first de-entrench the clause with one amendment, then disfranchise a state in a second one, is a more difficult question, but I would tend to think the answer is no.) --Trovatore (talk) 07:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If they've been expelled, then they are no longer a state. Their only recourse would be to take it to the Supreme Court. For that, we have the post-Civil War precedent, where states had essentially expelled themselves, and had to earn their way back into the Union. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots07:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bugs. YOU CAN'T DEPRIVE THEM OF THEIR VOTE IN THE SENATE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. Period. If expulsion, would have that effect, then YOU CAN'T EXPEL THEM. Again, there is no subtlety here. --Trovatore (talk) 07:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But I m interested also in the case of a state volountarily leaving. Without consent seems to me it means it can be done with consent. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:64A1:A0FD:CDDA:2E99 (talk) 11:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can do anything with a constitutional amendment, at that point the power resides with whoever can force their interpretation through. Even without that, I would hesitate to discount legal shenanigans. There's a long history of constitutional reinterpretation in the United States, and the current At least one US supreme court judge has previously called into question the 14th amendment the incoming government seems to want to remove. CMD (talk) 07:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You say "you can do anything with a constitutional amendment", but that is incorrect, by Article V, as I explain above. Why you're linking to articles about Singapore I have no idea. --Trovatore (talk) 07:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you can think of better examples of states that were expelled, I would be interested. CMD (talk) 12:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's just irrelevant to American constitutional law. Malaysia has a completely different system. No American state has ever been expelled. The ones that seceded, at the time of the American Civil War, are admittedly a complicated case, with the official legal position being that they never legally seceded at all (a side effect of Texas v. White, which really wasn't about that question), but on the other hand having to be "readmitted" under the Reconstruction Laws. --Trovatore (talk) 17:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This means it can be done if the state consent. 2A01:E0A:401:A7C0:64A1:A0FD:CDDA:2E99 (talk) 10:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peau de soie

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Hello. I read the following sentence in a translation EN→FR of Herbert Lieberman's Necropolis (Paris, France loisirs, 1983, p.135): « (…) à côté de lui, une femme brune, très petite, vêtue d'une longue peau de soie [in italics in the text] en dentelle, belle plutôt que jolie, regard intense et attachant.»

The wording "a long peau de soie in lace" makes me think that peau de soie is the name of a clothing but I can't find which one on the web - unless use these terms to designate only a type of silk (incidentally ignored on fr.WP).

But maybe the French translation is bad... Does anyone have the English version of this novel? Or does anyone know the meaning of peau de soie as clothing?

Could you enlighten me? Thanks already, Égoïté (talk) 17:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's an entry for this term on Wiktionary: en:wikt:peau de soie. Also see paduasoy. --Amble (talk) 17:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is wel there: the sentence in French indicates that the woman is dressed, therefore wearing a garment. We would not say in French that she is dressed in a long wool or a long silk.
In addition, the Wiktionary says: "heavy closely-woven silk fabric, faced with satin on both sides" and the text of the novel speaks of lace. The lace could be silk but not tightly woven covered with satin on both sides! (And, by the way, satin is not a material but a way of weaving.) Égoïté (talk) 18:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC) (sorry for my English)[reply]
Lieberman's original on Google Books: "...beside him, a dark, diminutive woman in long peau de soie lace, more handsome than pretty, with a strikingly arresting gaze." It's a normal construction in English: "he was in tweed", "she was in black silk", and so on. --Antiquary (talk) 20:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thank you very much Antiquary ! So I translate "à côté de lui, une femme brune, petite, vêtue de longues dentelles en peau de soie, plus belle que jolie..." Thank you !Égoïté (talk) 21:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that "From French xx " always means the term given is to be used in French like from the English sentence (vitrinelinguistique). The safest path it seems would be to find a fashion account, in French, reporting about the Wedding of Princess Beatrice and Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi, in July 2020 : dress is made from ivory peau de soie taffeta and is trimmed with ivory duchess satin. --Askedonty (talk) 00:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago Detroit Branch

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Why do they have to call it a branch of Chicago?? Why can't they simply call it the "Federal Reserve Bank of Detroit"?? Or even the "Federal Reserve Bank 7th District Detroit Branch" as distinguished from the main Chicago branch?? (Please answer with something that is valid regardless of what federal reserve bank branch I'm asking this question about.) Georgia guy (talk) 18:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's not a separate legal entity from the "Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago", and as such it wouldn't make sense to call it the "Federal Reserve Bank of Detroit". In theory the branch could have been called "Federal Reserve Bank 7th District Detroit Branch", however as "Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago" is the recognized name for the organization, using 7th District in the name of the branch office would just introduce confusion. Amstrad00 (talk) 19:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Federal Reserve Act specifies what the Federal Reserve Banks are, how many there should be (at least 8 but not than 12), how they are governed, how they may establish branches, and what the banks and districts are to be named. So a valid answer to your question is "because it's the law". The authors of the law could have chosen a different system, but I don't see why they would have wanted to; these names make pretty good sense to me. Note that each Federal Reserve Bank is owned by its shareholders, the individual banks that are members of that Federal Reserve Bank. A different Federal Reserve Bank would have its own shares, its own member banks, and its own governance. A branch does not. You could ask your congressional representatives to sponsor a bill replacing the current system with something else. --Amble (talk) 20:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Discussed at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 October 17#Letters for US Federal Reserve branches. 2A00:23D0:50D:E501:51FF:910C:BEC9:3E2F (talk) 14:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Polygon

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How serious do people take Polygon in terms of their critical commentary? They just released a ranking of all MCU films that I find to be completely off the mark. Do people find these rankings helpful or informative? Looking closely at their lists, anything that has more drama and dialogue than action is automatically ranked lower. I can't accept that people actually think this way. Is this normal? Viriditas (talk) 22:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IDK aboout Polygon in particular, but I frequently see articles about movies, or even bodies of writing about particular movies, that seem completely wrong. I have often thought movie X was terrible, even though its reviews were almost entirely favorable. Sometimes vice versa too. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 11:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying that any review that disagrees with your personal, subjective opinion is "wrong"? How dare they write their review without consulting you first? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would expect reviewers to have a range of responses just like moviegoers do. So some of the reviewers' opinions would coincide with mine and others would not. If I think a movie is bad and all the reviewers think it is good, then yes, it makes me feel like something is wrong with the reviewing establishment. I'm not any kind of movie expert and I don't think my opinion is anything special or unique. So I'd expect my reaction to a movie to be shared with at least a few others, including a few reviewers. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 01:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I expect that the group of movie reviews that you or anyone typically reads will be a small sub-set of all such reviews, and what you find in your sub-set will not necessarily be representative of the full spectrum of opinions. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience, people who are more or less unfamiliar with the comics go to MCU movies specifically for the action. So I have no problem believing idea that general entertainment reviewers focus on and prioritize that aspect of the movies. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

spoiler effect

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The article spoiler effect (about losing candidates affecting election outcomes) doesn't have much to say about whether the effect is a good thing or a bad thing as a question of political theory. It refers to "independence of irrelevant alternatives" but doesn't give meaningful support to that principle, and there are obvious arguments against it. Can anyone recommand any noteworthy literature on this, particularly the view favoring spoilers? Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 23:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know anything about their role in more complicated voting systems, but in "First Past the Post" or plurality voting inside each state of the United States, there's a prima facie plausible case to be made that spoiler candidates affected the outcome of both the 1992 and 2000 presidential elections. Of course, Ross Perot in 1992 was a lot closer to being a viable candidate than Ralph Nader in 2000. Some claim that without the 2000 Nader campaign, there wouldn't have been a 2003 Iraq war. Replacing plurality voting with another electoral system might make it possible for people to vote for minor-party candidates without fearing that this would help elevate their worst option to the presidency. This would allow some people to express a greater range of opinions with their vote, but might lessen major-party cohesion... AnonMoos (talk) 04:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm willing to accept as a fact that Nader spoiled the 2000 election for Gore, or (alternatively) as Nader put it, "Al Gore cost me the presidency". So the spoiler effect is real, though it could have happened the other way too (Pat Buchanan got some right wing votes in 2000 iirc). I tend to think Perot didn't change the 1992 outcome but that's harder to know. I'm wondering if there are established arguments (e.g. from game theory) that the spoiler effect in general is a good thing or a bad thing. Certainly similar effects happen throughout real life and not just elections, like in good–better–best pricing of soft drinks at the movies, Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 05:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Historians believe that Clinton won the 1992 election because Perot took votes away from Bush 41. It is likely that Bush 41 would have won if Perot hadn't entered the race. I personally believe this was true based on the people I knew who supported Perot; there were a lot of them. The more interesting thing is how Perot paved the way for Trump to emerge. Carville famously said, "If Trump is the Jesus of blue-collar populism, then Ross Perot was its John the Baptist." Lots of truth there. Viriditas (talk) 09:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is consensus among historians about Perot being a spoiler. Perot took votes from both candidates and there is a significant (maybe not majority, idk) view that in the end, he didn't matter. I can certainly believe historians differ with each other on the question.

In Trump-Harris 2024 of course the real spoiler was abstainers. So to really eliminate the spoiler effect we'd need mandatory voting as well as IRV or whatever. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 11:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the numbers. Bush lost because almost 20% of Republicans voted for Perot. I was there. I remember when it all went down. As for Trump-Harris, the spoiler was Harris, Biden, and the DNC. To wage an effective and targeted campaign, Biden needed to have announced his retirement well in advance, priming the American people that he was only a one term president. That, of course, never happened. That it got so late and so far past the point of no return, to the point where most people didn't know there was a problem until the middle of 2024 when the debate debacle occurred, that was the end. I watched it live and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Harris was not a popular candidate nor was she chosen by a primary or a convention in relation to other potential challengers, she was anointed, and she didn't have enough time to wage a serious campaign. However, if you insist on a real existential spoiler aside from the involved parties, there is an emerging consensus that the conservative media ecosystem is decades ahead of Democrats, to the point where there is virtually no liberal media except for MSNBC, and even there, it is center to center-right. Viriditas (talk) 11:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The flaw in much of this reasoning is in making assumptions about what people would have done if so-and-so wasn't in the race. Or, for that matter, if so-and-so was in the race. A lot of Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016 didn't like Hillary so didn't bother voting. It would have been interesting to see how Trump would have done head-to-head with Sanders. But we'll never know for sure. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well we're getting away from the question of whether the possibility of spoilers is good or bad. In any specific election it obviously depends on what outcome you want. Btw at least a few Sanders supporters in 2016 ended up voting for Trump.[23] 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 18:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Define "good" and "bad". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. In politics, of all things, what's good for someone is bad for someone else. And you'll always be able to find sources saying that this or that circumstance, voting system, whatever is a good thing, and a bad thing. Ultimately, it's subjective, and the Ref Desk cannot decree that it's one thing or another. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Does Australia have compulsory voting? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, at least at Federal and State election level. There are PSA announcements (tee-hee) on TV before elections that end with the voice-over saying "voting is compulsory". Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bugs, good question (good vs bad). Let's say, good = steering public policy towards where the electorate wants it to be, even when the entrenched leadership of the major parties wants it to be someplace different. I'm wondering if this question has been studied in the political or economics literature. Jack, I didn't ask for a decree from the ref desk, I asked whether there is existing published work on the issue. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 22:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm wondering if this question has been studied in the political or economics literature.
Yes, quite famously, in fact. See Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page 2014. For the sake of transparency, the conservative establishment pushed back quite a bit on this,[24] which is to be expected, but their response is just denial, in my opinion. They do this kind of thing a lot, often coordinating their denials as shared talking points. Gilens and Page were correct, but the staus quo won't accept it. Viriditas (talk) 23:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I'll look at that. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 00:57, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Viriditas, can you check the page number in that citation? The pdf starts on page 564. 2014 is the publication year. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 01:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Viriditas (talk) 02:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"without fearing that this would help elevate their worst option to the presidency" Define worst option. The way the two-party system worked in Greece between 1977 and 2012, the two dominant parties were New Democracy (a combination of conservatives, various shades of liberals, and reactionaries who found a new political home) and PASOK (nominal socialists with increasingly pro-business interests). Both had plenty of corruption scandals, both had close ties to business elites, and both were rather reluctant to reform chronic bureaucratic problems in the public sector. At some point many of the voters had problems in seeing any actual difference between them. My understanding of two-party systems is that the voter gets the option to choose between two political parties which are both deaf to the voter's needs. Dimadick (talk) 04:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Viriditas, oh I see, Benjamin I. Page was one of the authors of that article published in 2014, so you gave the name and year. I thought you were saying to look at page 2014 of the article. Ok I will read the article but a quick scan didn't seem to say anything about the spoiler effect. Dimadick, creating the possibility of electing the worst candidate is basically the definition of the spoiler effect. It's something like a doomsday device that can trigger if the lesser of two evils major-party candidate is insufficiently popular.

There are various arguments (some crazy I'm sure) for and against the intentional creation of a doomsday device. Many alternative voting systems like IRV aim to get rid of the spoiler effect. So I'm looking for the arguments for and against getting rid of it. IRV proponents seem to automatically assume that the effect is a bad thing and eliminating it is good. I would like to see a careful analysis of this assumption.

Note, I think the US two-party system, and the spoiler effect, are supposed to be emergent properties of the first past the post voting system that we use, by Duverger's law. Greek elections are different and the effects are less strong. I don't want to get soapboxy but Syriza did manage to win in Greece in 2015, only to squander its mandate through incredibly dumb errors by people who knew better but shut their eyes. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 05:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, I looked at that article and I think I had heard of it before. It says basically that average citizens voting has almost no effect on policy, but nothing about the spoiler effect per se afaict. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 07:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: Let's say, good [equals] steering public policy towards where the electorate wants it to be, even when the entrenched leadership of the major parties wants it to be someplace different. I'm wondering if this question has been studied in the political or economics literature.. It has, that’s what the Gilens & Page paper is about. Viriditas (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The G&P paper discusses how party leaders can want different policies than what the public wants. Sure, that difference is a given. What I want to know is whether the spoiler effect, specifically, does anything to either reinforce or counteract the power of those party leaders. Like in a slightly altered and oversimplified timeline, Bush runs on a 100% evil platform and Gore runs on 99% evil, expecting to win by a 1% margin. But he ignores Nader who eats that margin, thus Gore loses. If Gore were smarter, he could have run as 90% evil instead of 99%. Then he wins by enough to outcompete Bush and Nader put together. The spoiler effect has made public policy (or at least Gore's campaign platform) 9% less evil, i.e. closer to what the public wants.

Of course that's a pretty silly analysis but I have no real knowledge in this area. So again, I'm wondering whether poli sci or economics types have had anything to say about it. I figure they are more clueful than I am. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 09:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 16

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Roger Waters' 1990 Berlin Wall concert

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The concert at a strip of land between the Brandenburg Gate and Leipziger Platz. The concert was staged on vacant terrain between Potsdamer Platz and the Brandenburg Gate, a location that was part of the former "no man's land" of the Berlin Wall.

Where can I find a map or diagram showing the layout of Roger Waters' 1990 Berlin Wall concert stage and perimeter, overlaid on today's map of Potsdamer Platz? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I saw this published in a magazine back in the early 1990s, maybe Spin or Rolling Stone? You can recreate it yourself using the exact blueprints of the stage design[25] and then orienting the direction forward towards the stage[26] and facing towards the audience.[27] That should give you the relative location, but you'll have to spend a while on the maps apps to get it just right. Viriditas (talk) 20:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Andy, I was able to figure this out in five minutes using Google Earth. You can just create it yourself. The backside of the Reichstag building (without a dome in 1990) is just behind the stage and the Brandenburg Gate is just to the lower right in of the audience section. The dimensions of the stage itself are widely available. As for the total length of the audience section and its width, these are easy to estimate based on all the landmarks. Viriditas (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure you must be joking, about the audience section. Every single reader be it simply of a mainstream magazines will have had to know that to ensure that the Brandenburg Gate, which had been damaged during the first Berlin-wide New Year's Eve celebration, was not completely destroyed, it was agreed that the stage would be set up south of the current Holocaust Memorial (tagesspiegel, via translated). Info ? Faked rumours ? --Askedonty (talk) 23:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for any confusion, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say or how that changes what I said. It sounds to me like you are taking exception with the relative proximity of the audience to the Brandenburg Gate? That's a bit silly, since all I said was that the gate was to the lower right of the audience; I did not say how far away it was. However, to refute your assertion, many of the accounts of the event indicate that they could see the gate from the audience section. Also, how about you look at the links to pics I posted above? It sounds like you posted your comment before looking at the photos. Viriditas (talk) 23:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I see the problem. It's a typo that you interpreted quite literally. My mistake. I fixed it up above. Viriditas (talk) 23:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do not regret. I would have vastly preferred there were no pretext for them to manage people in consequence. --Askedonty (talk) 23:54, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the info originally requested: 52°31′00″N 13°22′34″E / 52.51667°N 13.37611°E / 52.51667; 13.37611 I should have posted this in the beginning. Viriditas (talk) 00:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, no doubt, they just wanted making me entirely crazy. Never mind, according to the article I've hit it's more to the South and to the East. Wouldn't your spot be in the trees according to the picture ? --Askedonty (talk) 00:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably, but every time I try to get a coordinate it gives me the wrong one. I think that's good enough for someone to add a layout in that general vicinity. The article you posted says the stage was 200 meters wide, which sounds just right. Andy can use that as a starting point to draw a perimeter. You can than refer to the photos up above for length and width. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All that heat, and no light. The question was not "where did the concert occur", but "where can I find a map or diagram showing the layout...". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What heat? The answer is: you can make it yourself. I apologize that you don’t like the answer. I was just about to upload the image I made, but given your attitude, I’ll just delete it now. Viriditas (talk) 10:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Deleting your original research is probably for the best. The Brandenburg Gate is visible in the above image, behind and to the right of the circular screen. The coordinates you have given are in what was West, not East, Berlin. My question remains unanswered. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This may be the perimeter with "BÜHNE" marking the stage? Looks like maybe a cropped poster or program? fiveby(zero) 13:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted. Google translate says it's the reverse side of the concert ticket. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liberal Arts Colleges in US factors

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Is there a website that shows a list of Liberal Arts colleges that offer a) History program, b) that offer football programs and c) shows which liberal arts college has the significant student population that are 1) Middle Eastern, 2) Afro-Caribbean, Sub Saharan African, and 3) Pacific Islanders ? Donmust90 (talk) 23:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that all Liberal Arts colleges in the US offer a history program. People generally use US News and World Report College Rankings to search. Here is their list of Liberal Arts Colleges by the strength of their History programs. Their ethnicity data is behind a paywall. One could start with List of historically black colleges and universities. As for Football, smaller schools can be found in 2024 NAIA football rankings, 2024 NCAA Division II football rankings, and 2024 NCAA Division III football rankings. Abductive (reasoning) 11:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 17

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Rwanda immigration

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UK ex-PM Sunak, and more recently incoming POTUS Trump, have floated the idea of deporting unwanted migrants to Rwanda.[28] Rwanda doesn't sound like the worst place in the world (it's bad, but not at the absolute bottom), but doesn't Rwanda itself have anything to say about this? The idea is to just fly people to Rwanda and have them ask for asylum there, when (in Trump's case) the US and maybe multiple Central American countries have declined? What happens if Rwanda also says no? Has there been any mention in some kind of foreign aid to Rwanda to entice them to go along with the scheme? Basically, "why Rwanda" out of all other possible countries. The whole thing sounds bizarre. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 22:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Rwanda asylum plan for the British version. DuncanHill (talk) 22:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The British sent unwanted citizens (not just illegal immigrants) to Australia for 80 years. HiLo48 (talk) 23:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HiLo48; actually, there was no provision in the Aliens Act 1793 for transportion. Unwanted migrants, chiefly French, were simply expelled (many went on to the United States). The act lapsed in 1836 and there were no further immigration controls until the Aliens Act 1905. Alansplodge (talk) 11:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, the Rwanda asylum plan article helped. The Australia scheme was in a different age and probably wouldn't work now ;). 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 01:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It could work, if America had a vast, sparsely populated chunk of land. As to sending them to Rwanda, it's well to keep in mind that Trump floats a lot of ideas, just what could charitably be called "thinking out loud", which have no real possibility of happening. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we shall see 130.74.59.186 (talk) 20:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Australia has its own similar third-country camp, the Nauru Regional Processing Centre, and formerly had the Manus Regional Processing Centre too. CMD (talk) 01:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bugs, there's lots of unpopulated land in the US, but if you let someone settle anywhere in the US then I think it would be difficult to stop them from leaving there. And people don't want to live in those places. Offers of housing to homeless US citizens in low population areas haven't been taken up much, since there are better services available in urban centers. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE (talk) 01:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Trumpies aren't advocating voluntary resettlement. If they stay in America, they could be in something like the camps Japanese-Americans were locked in during WWII. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots17:01, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Internment camps could work well for what Republicans have in mind, but could have negative consequences for public health. Historically, internment camps are connected to the quick spread of "endemic contagious diseases" to the entire population of internees. The infection of nearby settlements is not out of the question. Dimadick (talk) 14:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
immigration detention (pending the resolution of asylum claims, for example),
as contrasted with the present 'catch-and-release' policy, or the granting of temporary protected status to the citizens of countries (or those who claim citizenship of certain countries) writ large, if enough of them enter the country illegally,
is meant to incentivize autorepatriation
i don't understand how someone can believe these outrageous lies, when we have already had a trump presidency
big promises - and ineffectual results, hampered by the civil service, who, as it turns out, cannot just be slashed overnight, and by more moderate advisors
as Vance predicted - the victory of trump will be very harmful to the mental health of a certain class of people, who actually believe, as Harris repeatedly insisted, that Trump is a 'fascist', will be a 'dictator' - and then conceded the election to him without incident
How will the American people resolve this cognitive dissonance ?
please settle down and accept that a new golden age is beginning 130.74.58.180 (talk) 16:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Conceding an election to the actual winner and having a peaceful transition of power is the hallmark of respect for properly conducted democratic processes. Some live by this principle. Others ..... -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

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By Today's Standards, What Kind of Socialist is Babeuf?

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Babeuf supports the abolition of currency, but still wants to retain the existence of national borders, and I'm not sure if that would make him a Marxist or a non-Marxist socialist. I'm also not sure if Babeuf is closer to left-authoritarianism or left-libertarianism. Eougt59 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He's pre-Marxist. Some would call all pre-Marxist socialists "utopian", and "Utopian socialism" appears in the infobox of his article... AnonMoos (talk) 05:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He was regarded as the first revolutionary communist. He advocated for equality in society and the abolition of private property. However, in today’s standards, justice and equity are more important than equality. Stanleykswong (talk) 09:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Limits to property rights of non-living items

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Suppose, purely hypothetically, that Billy O'Nair has acquired a Sunflowers painting, completely legally, being the highest bidder at an auction. At a whim, he decides to destroy it. Could Mr. O'Nair face legal consequences? More generally, are there jurisdictions that to some extent protect the preservation of highly-valued and possibly irreplaceable items, even when they have not specifically been awarded some official status such as "national treasure"? Or, conversely, are there jurisdictions for which it is foreseeable – such as based on jurisprudence – that such vile abuse of one's stewardship over one's property can be exercised with impunity?

(I am aware of the fact that "highly-valued" has a subjective aspect. But so do many other commonly accepted terms used in legal contexts, such as "reasonable care", "cruel and unusual", "undue hardship", so please do not get stuck on that.)  --Lambiam 14:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the jurisdiction in question (ie: the state), considers the preservation of an item to be something desirable, then why has the state not taken control over it? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes a nation will intervene in auctions to prevent a cultural item leaving the country. On the other hand, Steve Wynn put his elbow through Le Rêve (Picasso) without getting thrown into a UNESCO dungeon or anything. He even wanted money back for doing it.  Card Zero  (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Right to Destroy Artwork says that in the UK, the owner of the work can do with it as they please, citing the destruction of Graham Sutherland's Portrait of Winston Churchill by Churchill's widow or staff. In France there are droits d’auteur (author's rights) which allows the artist to object to the destruction of his work, although in the OP's example, any copyright would have expired long since. Similar rights exist in the USA under the Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990. Alansplodge (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to our article, the painting was destroyed within a year after its creation, some ten years before Churchill's death – although I do not see this early destruction date in the cited source.  --Lambiam 05:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article "The Right to Destroy Artwork" states that The Visual Artists Rights Act includes the prohibition of destruction of artwork. A speaker in the House of Representatives is reported as having given the rationale that "society is the ultimate loser when works are modified or destroyed", which comes close to the essence of my question. However, the act only grants rights to the author, which only persist for their lifetime, so this stated rationale is not the intention of the law.  --Lambiam 06:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A citation leads me to Sprankling, John G (2014). "The Right to Destroy". The International Law of Property. Oxford. WP:Library doesn't seem to be working for me right now, but the abstract hints it might be useful. Of course many jurisdictions have limitations on the use of real property and some might possibly apply before something is "designated" historic. fiveby(zero) 17:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the wplibrary link.

International law restricts the owner’s right to destroy artistic works by recognizing the artist’s right of integrity. The principal source of this limitation is the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention), which applies to all “literary and artistic works,” including architecture, paintings, photographs, and sculpture. Article 6bis sets forth the moral rights held by the creator of such a work, including the right of integrity. It provides that even after the transfer of all “economic rights” in the work, the creator retains the right “to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.”...Most states have adopted domestic laws to protect this right.

— p. 298
Adeney, Elizabeth (2006). The Moral Rights of Authors and Performers: An International and Comparative Analysis. Oxford. lists the jurisdiction and statutes but no wplibrary access. Examples given are Martin v City of Indianapolis and Felseneiland mit Sirenen (1912) (Germany). However:

The right of integrity is not based on society’s interest in safeguarding artistic property from damage, but rather on protecting the honor and reputation of the creator...Even assuming that destruction is a form of “mutilation” or “other modification,” it does not violate the right of integrity unless it also prejudices the “honor or reputation” of the creator...In practice, the right of integrity is an unwieldy tool to prevent mutilation or destruction

— pp. 299-300
You might also be interested in the "Cultural Heritage Property" section, but the conclusion in 2014 was:

International law does not currently prohibit a private owner from destroying cultural heritage property. At this juncture, it can only be called an emerging trend, not a customary norm or a general principle of law. However, given the rate at which international cultural heritage law has expanded in recent decades, it seems likely that the momentum toward restricting such destruction will continue.

— p. 302
fiveby(zero) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The idea of heritage/listing systems is to limit what owners can do with their own real estate. See List of heritage registers. On a local level (and not listed in that article) properties in the UK may be in a Conservation area, which has a similar aim. -- Verbarson  talkedits 20:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This case may be of interest, though in the end nothing came of it. Matt Deres (talk) 20:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK we have the concept of a Listed building, which restricts what changes can be made to certain houses and other constructions. A famous recent case was a pub called The Crooked House, which burned down in suspicious circumstances; the owners were ordered to rebuild it in its original form. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish Consistory

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The article section Fandango#Condemnation_and_liberation_by_Spanish_Church mentions a Consistory as a Spanish ecclesiastical authority, but the link is to Consistorium, which was a feature of the Roman empire. Do we have a more appropriate article to link to? Possibly Papal consistory or Ecclesiastical_court#Catholic_Church Rojomoke (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rojomoke; from a quick Google and looking at sources like this and this, it seems that an ecclesiastical court is the intended meaning. Alansplodge (talk) 15:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So amended. Alansplodge (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hi. I was wondering if Diamond is still a featured article? I doubt it since it was promoted a long time ago, but please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:14A:9E08:514F:EF1E:75E0:8084 (talk) 22:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop asking. You can check this for yourself very easily. Featured articles have a gold star at the top right of the page and if you hover over it, it will say that the article is at featured status. The talk page will also explicitly say whether an article is at featured status or not. Matt Deres (talk) 23:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With regard to such questions,
you will find at WP:FEATURED that featured article status persists (even if only honorary)
until an article is deleted or moved from its location (name) 130.74.58.180 (talk) 16:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 19

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Neirab steles and the minor god Shahar

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Neirab steles. I was reading an inscriptions book and found reference to them. Our page says they were considered dubious from the start. I imagine they're not consequential enough to have enjoyed a revisitation by the academy, who knows. I think the wear is a bit uneven, the script might be too textbook. My question is about spelling. Is there anywhere else that spelled the god's name שהר? I think it's elsewhere more like שחר. I checked KTU 1.23 for spelling, they gave šḥr and one šhr which might have been a typo.

Secondarily, where's a better place than here to ask this kind of question? Is there one? Neither wordreference forums nor earlywritings forums seem to quite hit the mark for spellings on steles. Temerarius (talk) 02:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Funny coincidence, I just ran across a reference to שחר as an herb in Elephantine here note 603.[1] First I've heard of it, and I always keep my ears attuned to this word and its soundalikes due to the canonical cruces.
Temerarius (talk) 03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC) Temerarius (talk) 03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Siljanen, Esko (2017-03-31). "Judeans of Egypt in the Persian period (539-332 BCE) in light of the Aramaic Documents". Academia.edu. p. 160. Retrieved 2024-11-19.
In response to your second question, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Near East seems fairly active. Alansplodge (talk) 15:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

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Is it illegal for an American to pay prostitutes for sex

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I have been reading CNN post here: https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-transition-news-11-19-24/index.html Where it says "The women said they were paid by the former congressman for sex on that trip, during which they also joined Gaetz at a Fox News studio while he filmed a TV appearance, their attorney Joel Leppard told CNN's Erin Burnett on "OutFront." Gaetz allegedly covered the women's travel costs as well, Leppard said."

But did Gaetz did anything wrong? I am not an US citizen and I don't know if it is illegal for an American to pay prostitutes for sex? Can someone explain. 2001:8003:429D:4100:6501:12DA:18A6:ED8 (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a full article about it here. Omidinist (talk) 04:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If he paid for their travel from one state to another for the purpose of having sex with him, that could be a Mann Act violation. AnonMoos (talk) 06:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, before Trump, it wasn't necessary for an American politician to commit an actual crime for their career to be derailed by a sex scandal (see Wilbur Mills etc). That standard still applies to Democratic politicians (see Al Franken and Katie Hill), but Republicans now seem to be rewriting the rules as they go along. (Trump himself is a judicially-adjudicated -- though not criminally convicted -- sexual assaulter.) AnonMoos (talk) 06:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - 118th CONGRESS - RULE XXIII — CODE OF OFFICIAL CONDUCT says:
1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.
Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That rule "is no more" and "has ceased to be". Or maybe it's just "pining for the fjords". Clarityfiend (talk) 12:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the guy was not even censured,
although,
the core of the republican party is now composed of two-timers, philanderers, 'businessmen doing business',
illiterates, hucksters, snake oil salesmen (Kennedy, Oz, even Trump with his horse tranquilizer) and so on 130.74.58.180 (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That Oz guy is no relation of mine, btw. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prostitution is legal in some rural counties of Nevada, but not in the larger cities. See Prostitution in Nevada. Cullen328 (talk) 17:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This brings up something important about the legality. Prositution laws are state laws. In one state, it may be illegal to be paid for sex as well as to pay for sex. In another state, it is legal to pay for sex, but not be paid for it. In another state, it may be legal to be paid for sex, but not pay for it. As a state law, a state can allow counties within a state to make their own laws. Therefore, the question is not about the legality of Gaetz paying for sex in the United States, it is about the legality in the specific location it was (reportedly) paid for. But, as mentioned, being legal does not mean being ethical. Many legal actions are not ethical and can be used to censure a congress person. 64.53.18.252 (talk) 22:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's also the question of what exactly is a prostitute. If a woman happens to accept money, does that qualify, or does it only qualify if it's her primary vocation? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Women are so much more than just objects for men to screw. But men only have a few brain cells and can’t control themselves around women, and being sexualized is all women know so they let themselves get exploited and think it’s perfectly okay. 2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:807F:7FE4:7205:E54E (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt many of them think it's "perfectly OK", but women are practical. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots03:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Women: More than objects to screw. Men: Nothing but objects who screw. You seem nice. And also blocked. --Golbez (talk) Golbez (talk) 06:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP's question is not about ethics or morality or hypocricy or whether or not a woman who sells sex occasionslly should be classified as a prostitute, or whether or not Matt Gaetz committed a crime because he has neither been officially charged with nor convicted of a crime. The question is whether or not it is illegal for an American man to pay for sex. The answer is that it is illegal in many jurisdictions and legal in other jurisdictons. As long as he complies with the local laws, it is legal where it is legal. American men can and do travel to other countries where prostitution is legal but the laws are varied. As pointed out previously, prostitution is illegal in almost all areas of the United States, but there are a few rural counties in Nevada where it is legal, licensed, regulated and advertised. It is only legal in licensed brothels and there are only about 20 of them. So, even in those rural counties of Nevada where prostitution in brothels is legal, it is illegal for a man to connect with a prostitute in a bar or on a streetcorner or even on the internet, except through a brothel's website. But if a man goes to a licensed brothel and follows their rules and regulations, it is legal. I live in California not far from Nevada and love the remote mountains and deserts of Nevada, and have visited Nevada countless times. I have driven past legal brothels quite a few times with my wife and sometimes with my sons. If you take the short drive, for example, from the state capital of Carson City, Nevada to the historic silver mining town of Virginia City, Nevada, you will pass at least two legal brothels, with billboards and parking lots, doing business constantly and legally. Cullen328 (talk) 09:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tower of David - surviving crusader parts?

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Are there any buildings, or parts of buildings, within the present Tower of David that date from the crusader period? And if there are, do we have any photos of them on Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons? Surtsicna (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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Why is the fictosexuality article protected?

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wp:deny
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I wanted to make edits about the pain, suffering, and alienation that they go through everyday, but it’s protected and I can’t edit it.

And the teahouse is protected too, so this is the only place I can go. I don’t want to make an account. 2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:807F:7FE4:7205:E54E (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on your talk page. win8x (talk) 00:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because of your edits. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots03:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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St Austell Western Relief Road, 1980s proposal

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I remember sometime in the 1980s (I think the latter half) a proposal for a relief road to the west of St Austell in Cornwall, from somewhere like Stenalees or Penwithick to Sticker or thereabouts. I would be grateful for any information about the proposal, and any reasons for its abandonment. The records of local newspapers on the British Newspaper Archive do not appear to reach a recent enough date. Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 00:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking about the St Austell to A30 link road? Stanleykswong (talk) 14:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know the answer, but Facebook groups are very good for this kind of question. Look for groups called things like Cornwall/St Austell History or Memories. --Viennese Waltz 13:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the St Austell to A30 link. DuncanHill (talk) 15:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What does a relief road relieve? Congestion? —Tamfang (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

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Please explain the difference...

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...between these 2 movies: (Release date known is not to be taken as part of the difference.)

https://playbill.com/article/broadways-girl-from-the-north-country-will-arrive-in-cinemas-this-fall-watch-the-trailer

https://playbill.com/article/olivia-colman-chloe-bailey-tosin-cole-woody-harrelson-will-star-in-girl-from-the-north-country-film

(The first link has a link to the second link that shows that these are not the same movie.) Georgia guy (talk) 01:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Georgia guy, one of the films appears to be a straight filming of the jukebox musical play as performed onstage in a theater. That filming already happened. The other appears to be a dramatization of the play with its own script and would presumably be filmed in a studio instead of a theater. It is confusing. One wonders why Bob Dylan would approve both films, and if the movie watching audience would welcome two film adaptations of the same jukebox musical. On the other hand, Dylan has been successful for over 60 years, and was just on a national tour with Willie Nelson, Robert Plant, Alison Kraus and John Mellencamp this past summer. One must assume that he and his team know what they are doing. Cullen328 (talk) 03:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December (Roman month)

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Out of each of the days of December, which ones would the ancient Romans have designated as dies fasti, which ones as dies comitali, which ones as dies nefasti, which ones as feriae, which ones as quando rex comitiavit fas, and which ones as endotercissus? That month's article remains the only one whose table lacks such information. (in fact, it didn't even have a table at all until just recently) - MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 02:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have paged the Pontifex Maximus. Expect a reply Monday. Cheers 2601:481:80:6E60:24B3:C1E8:EA21:72F (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to "The Calendar of the Roman Republic" by Agnes Kirsopp Michels, the 1st 2nd and 3rd are "N", the 4th "C", the 5th and 6th "F", 7th through 10th "C", the 11th "NP", the 12th "EN", the 13th "NP", the 14th "F", then there's an alternation of "NP" days (the 15th, 17th, 19th, 21st, 23rd) and "C" days (the 16th, 18th, 20th, and 22nd), while the rest are "C". Of course, that applies to the late Republic period... AnonMoos (talk) 15:28, 23 November 2024

(UTC)

You can see the whole year here:

.

21 December was Divalia, not to be confused with Divali, which falls at much the same time of month and much the same time of year. 2A02:C7B:10C:B100:D07E:B99F:749D:94EF (talk) 18:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complex Texan language

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The question, "Mr. President, they can't make you believe now that there are not some in Dallas who love and appreciate you, can they?" is rather hard to parse, including as it does two negatives and two conditionals. This makes the response—"No, they sure can't"—potentially ambiguous, although unintentionally so. SerialNumber54129 15:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A tag question is a commonplace construction in many languages, ね?  Card Zero  (talk) 16:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I may be missing something, since I don't see the ambiguity. There are only two potential antecedents for the pronoun they in the response. The first is the occurrence of this pronoun in the question. This is a perfect fit: they can't make you do X — no, [you're right,] they can't [make me do X]. The other potential antecedent is formed by the noun phrase some in Dallas who love and appreciate you. There is no potentiality in the claim some in Dallas love and appreciate you, whether explicit or implicit. If the claimed Dallas-based fans were the intended antecedent, a no response elicited by the claim would take a form as in some love and appreciate you — no, they don't [love and appreciate me].  --Lambiam 20:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, over-focusing on the response perhaps. Cut the tag question and let's stick to "they can't make you believe now that there are not some in Dallas who love and appreciate you", then... SerialNumber54129 20:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm gonna go with Lambiam for once. It's not ambiguous. It might be easy to make a mistake in interpreting, but that's not the same as ambiguous. --Trovatore (talk) 20:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 24

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Who owns the Tower of the Koutoubia Mosque?

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Who bought Tower of the Koutoubia Mosque from Angelina Jolie in 2021? Our article says the details have not been made public, but I reckon the RefDesks can do better than that. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be surprised if we can. When people don't want it known that they've bought an £8,000,000 painting they usually keep the secret pretty determinedly. But if you want to try and work it out by elimination I'll give you a start: he wasn't a Belgian. --Antiquary (talk) 12:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UK rivers

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Not sure if this the right venue to ask this question. In the UK, where rivers form the boundaries between counties (and countries), are any of these rivers wholly in one county or are they all shared? Does the boundary always lie on one side or the other, or does it always follow the centre line of the river? Thank you. 79.77.181.116 (talk) 16:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thats a good question. I'm not sure if I can help much, but...
The River Liddle runs almost the length of the England/Scotland border. It starts in Scotland and empties into the Esk just inside the English side. I think that as it originates in Scotland, it belongs to one of the water authorities in Scotland.So in that example it looks like even though its follow the border, it 'belongs' to Scotland. I'm going to look at the Welsh border to see how that works. I'm laying money on there not being a standard answer, 'cos, Britain. (I'm British, I'm allowed to say that). Knitsey (talk) 16:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Afon Dyfrdwy (River Dee) originates in Eryri (Snowdonia). It flows towards the Welsh/English border. It follows part of the boundary plus a tributary into the Irish Sea. It looks to mostly belong to Wales, with the portions that flow into England being cared for by Cheshire. There is also Afon Gwy (River Wye) further down which originates in Wales and forms part of the border. It looks like this is manages by Wales. I know this doesn't really answer your question but maybe someone with more knowledge about the subject. Knitsey (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A quick look at a few Ordnance Survey maps shows that the boundaries tend to follow the centre of rivers, or at least the centre of the main course of the river. Alansplodge (talk) 22:44, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OS map shows that the border follow the centre of the rivers Tweed, Liddle, Wye and Dee apart from a few places where the river has been diverted. Management is the responsibility of the regional water authority so the county it 'belongs' to is somewhat irrelevant. Shantavira|feed me 09:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see. So are all rivers in the UK within a single regional water authority? Or, in the cases where the river is a boundary between two authorities, which one looks after the river? Thanks. 79.77.181.116 (talk) 10:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you click on the blue link for regional water authority, kindly provided in Shantavira's reply above, all will be revealed. Alansplodge (talk) 12:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 25

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How easy will it be for sons of Korean mothers to immigrate to Korea? I'm on the fence between Korea and Rwanda, but I need to find *somewhere* to permanently escape to, to escape Trump's hurtful policies.

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I feel similar about America in 2024 as Germans likely felt in 1932. I see a crapstorm coming to all Americans not in the top 1%.

How much easier is it to escape permanently to Korea due to having a Korean mother and a whole family on my mother's side still living there?

I don't choose to post my age, but I'm Gen Y / a Millennial.

I have years of experience as a delivery driver and also hold a CDL. I can also take pictures of products to be sold, type up descriptions, and list them online. I can also be a social media representative.

I can read Korean letters and words and sound them out, but can't comprehend sentences yet. I have Duolingo and can download other Korean language-learning apps.

I have a Bachelor's in Social Sciences and a minor in Leadership.

Trump will not pull US troops out of Korea, will he? (I fear that if he does, Korea may be the wealthier version of Afghanistan and the North Korean military will be your Taliban.)

If my gig on Doordash ends, which it would upon emigrating, my SSDI would rise from $593 to around $1000, since there won't be another income to pull the SSDI down. How well would one survive on $1000/month in Korea?

What 3rd-party delivery driving gig apps are like Doordash, but for Korea? Will it have an English language mode? Do immigrants get to deliver for those apps? What are the typical earnings per day like?

How much do Korean language classes cost for foreign adults to take online or in-person?

What other tips must I know about emigrating to Korea as the son of a Korean mother? What does it take to earn a permanent residency permit? A full Korean citizenship?

What is Korea's national health insurance like, and how much does it cost? --2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is asking for legal advice, which cannot be given here. Abductive (reasoning) 03:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP is the same one who asked about getting cryogenically frozen while still alive. Maybe they could get the best of both worlds by moving to Antarctica. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots08:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OP, questions like this would be best answered by the (South) Korean Embassy in Washington, or by one of Korea's 13 Consulates in the US (see List of diplomatic missions of South Korea#Americas). That is one of their purposes: they probably have standard information packs. Since the country has the lowest birth rate in the World (see South Korea#Demographics), it is very open to immigration, particularly to people with Korean heritage. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 09:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rwanda seems like an odd possibility. Can Trump really screw up the US in four years so badly that it is worse than that African nation? That would take real effort, and Trump's pretty lazy. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help with NPS sources

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(No response received at Wikipedia:Help desk, so have to ask here)

Hello,

NPS nomination forms have a section for "representation in existing surveys," as seen here on the bottom of the first page. What does this mean? Does it have something to do with a broader area-wide geographic survey, or a more specific historical site survey? Thanks so much!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 21:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Explained in this guidance document;

It is useful to note whether the property is included in the State Historic Preservation Officer's statewide survey of historic properties; in inventories compiled by Federal agencies of properties under their jurisdiction or control, or in the environmental impact area of their projects; in the Historic American Buildings Survey; the Historic American Engineering Records; the National Historic Landmarks program; or in any other local, State, or private survey. Locating existing surveys can save duplication of time and effort in gathering survey data and in correlating data produced by the current survey with other documentation on the property. It may also be useful to indicate whether the property is a locally designated landmark or is part of a locally designated district.

Abductive (reasoning) 03:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Abductive
Thank you so much!
JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 26

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Trump's new hires

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When filling out his Cabinet and other high offices, Trump is selecting various (current) Senators, Representatives, etc. How do those (soon-to-be) vacancies get re-filled? Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 08:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When a U.S. Senate seat is vacated, the governor of that state can appoint a successor, who is sworn in pretty promptly. This is the process that led to a criminal conviction and eight years in prison for Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich who tried to sell the Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama in 2008. As for vacant seats in the House of Representatives, they must be filled by a special election, which is a much more lengthy and risky process. The election to fill the seat vacated by Matt Gaetz will not take place until April 1, 2025, and that seat will probably be vacant for about six months. Cullen328 (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With regard to vacant senate seats, the procedure varies from state to state. In 45 states, the governor can make a temporary appointment, either for the remainder of the term, or until the next election. In the five others, a special election must be held. See here for more details. Xuxl (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. So, as Trump picks off various Senators and Reps, how and when is the majority determined in those Congressional houses? And who holds the majority while we wait for these special elections and gubernatorial appointments? Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The majority is held by the party with the most active members on a given day. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots17:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, the majority "ping pongs" back and forth? And they select a Majority Senator and Speaker of the House on this "ping pong" basis? 32.209.69.24 (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Membership doesn't "'ping pong' back and forth;" it is set on the day this congress holds its first session. If changes in minority-majority status occur, there can be a call for new leadership.DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's pretty rare for control to go back and forth in one session. The 107th United States Congress Senate was the busiest. Congress opened January 3 2001 with 50-50 in the Senate, so Al Gore got the tie-breaking vote until January 20th, when Dick Cheney became VP; but in June Jim Jeffords moved from R to I and caucused with the Democrats, so the Democrats had a majority through the rest of that congress. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 20:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dissent (sports)

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I'd like to add something on this "thing" [29][30][31] on WP somewhere, maybe at Dissent, but I'd like some solid sources to base it on. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unsportsmanlike conduct. Nanonic (talk) 08:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That might be a reasonable place for it. Would be nice to have a solid source stating that "dissent" is "Unsportsmanlike conduct" though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And I see it's mentioned at Fouls and misconduct (association football). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

who occupies the land of the former Kakhovka Reservoir

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There used to be a large body of water separating the Russian military in southern Ukraine from the Ukrainian military in northern Ukraine: the Kakhovka Reservoir. Now that that body of water is mostly land, who occupies it? When I asked a year ago there was no information available; I'm wondering if any is available a year on, now that it's overgrown with thick tree cover for soldiers to shelter under. It's larger than the area of Russia that Ukrainians control, it seems like someone would be trying to occupy it... -sche (talk) 21:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Willows grow fast, but not that fast. After one full growing season, they won't be big enough to find shelter under. Five years from now, they will, but the vegetation will be so dense that a human can't get through. A great habitat for beavers though. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the Institute for the Study of War's map, it still seems like nobody has advanced very far into the morass. The Russians have only built trenches at the eastern end, and clearly are not worried about a serious Ukrainian offensive across the former Kakhovka Reservoir. Abductive (reasoning) 10:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

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[edit]

Did they also pay hazard bonuses for working in the heat?

Is it cheaper for UPS to just air condition their warehouses and package vans?

After paying the initial installation fees for the new HVAC systems, how much will it cost for UPS to run air conditioning and maintain their HVAC systems for one year (at least only when the weather is hot?)

And how much did they pay out in heat-related workers comp claims for one year?

How well will UPS come out ahead from simply air conditioning all places and vehicles that need air conditioned?

--2600:8803:1D13:7100:B100:3170:56F8:999D (talk) 17:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have linked to a disambiguation page.
Do you mean United Parcel Service?
If so, given that this is a global multinational company, are you interested in their facilities (which include far more that merely warehouses and vans) worldwide, or just in some particular country?
Guessing (with apologies if I'm wrong) that you are interested only in their parcel operations in the USA, answering your questions would require a very detailed and complete knowledge of their buildings and vehicle fleet, as well as (probably confidential) details of figures for their worker compensation payments. I would have thought that only UPS themselves would have access to the necessary information that would enable calculating, for example, the cost of installing air-conditioning in all their warehouses (etc.) in the US. My totally wild and uninformed guess is that this would cost something like $50 million.
Perhaps, however, other responders can contribute insights into these matters. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 19:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The most satisfying answer other than - none - is perhaps (UPS): In 2021, UPS employees donated more than one million (community) hours of their time. Last year was 2023 and some information is still available, including a few figures. A succesfull agreement between workers and management led to a situation with comp claims predictably quite low, though, lorry AC upgrade cost could be approximately $3000 per unit but regarding warehouses we need to substract an unknown number of drivers from a total of 340,000 employees. See also https://oshadefensereport.com/2024/10/02/maryland-oshas-new-heat-stress-standard/ , for some forward context. --Askedonty (talk) 22:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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Language

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November 15

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Is this OVS

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In some books, I saw that quotations were formatted as [insert quote here], followed by the word “said” and then the name of the speaking character. Is this a form of OVS word order, as the ultimate subject is positioned last, preceded by the verb, and the quote (which takes the function of an object) is the first element written in the sentence? Primal Groudon (talk) 05:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Effectively, yes, but it results from V2 word order. This is the normal word order in Germanic languages and used to be the standard in English too, before it switched to mostly SVO. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PiusImpavidus -- V2 constructions occurred frequently in early Germanic, but the basic word order of a simple sentence was SOV, and definjitely not OVS (see Proto-Germanic_grammar#Syntax). AnonMoos (talk) 20:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as I wrote. Basic order in Germanic is SOV and in main clauses the topic is moved to first and the finite verb to second position. If subject, finite verb and object are the only things present (as in the question) and the object is the topic, the resulting order is OVS, but the rule is V2. PiusImpavidus (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Placing the speaker first, then the word “said” and then the quote, would still be V2. Primal Groudon (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, and “speaker said ‘quote’” is allowed both in SVO English and V2 German. “‘quote’ said speaker” is typically not allowed in SVO, but is allowed in V2. It's normal in Germanic and allowed as an exception in English because of its history as V2 language. “‘quote’ speaker said” isn't allowed in V2 and indeed doesn't normally occur in Germanic, but is allowed in English by moving the object to first position, whilst keeping SV order, as English is no longer V2. PiusImpavidus (talk) 15:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Primal Groudon: See Quotation § Quotative inversion. Bazza 7 (talk) 10:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right Said Fred -- Verbarson  talkedits 20:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's this Australian word: a "muster"?

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Obviously she means "a great deal". But what actual word is this Australian woman uttering here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgUv_lQgOXI&t=104s (104 seconds into the video) 178.51.16.158 (talk) 09:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikt:motza. Fut.Perf. 10:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found two pun-based proposed origins; matzo ("bread", meaning possibly from Yiddish) or mozzarella ("big cheese"). 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's "motza". Here is an excellent in-depth explanation of it. HiLo48 (talk) 13:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Aren't the "alternative slang terms" pretty universal, though? With the possible exception of "stack". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That website sounds AI-generated to me. Fut.Perf. 15:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is that a problem? HiLo48 (talk) 23:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the AI considers general English words as Australian slang, its assumptions aren't fully valid. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it just seemed to me that the texts on that website (on several of its pages) showed the typical predominance of fluff, redundancy and clichéd trivialities and very low level of concrete information that's characteristic of AI-generated text. If you look closely, you'll see that it offers very very little in terms of actual facts. I'd say it's the very opposite of an "in-depth explanation". Fut.Perf. 15:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
↑+1 DuncanHill (talk) 12:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Claimed there to be from Yiddish motsa meaning "bundle" or "heap". I can't find an attestation (not as a mention but as a use) of such a Yiddish etymon (מוצאַ?).  --Lambiam 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This Australian National University webpage describes the origin as the Yiddish word for "unleavened bread". That seems slightly more reliable to me than a website called "Slang Sensei". I know nothing about Australian slang but I do know about matzah which is a Hebrew word, not a Yiddish word. It is discussed twice in the Book of Exodus and twice in the Book of Deuteronomy, so the word is at least 2600 years old. Matzah does not literally mean "bundle" or "heap" in any way. It means the rapidly produced crisp unleavened bread that the Israelites ate when they were hurriedly fleeing from Egypt, as the story goes. So, here is my informed speculation about how the slang may have originated. During the highly important annual ritual Passover seder meal, the humble matzah is an essential component that is treated almost as a religious treasure. Three matzah must be stacked up, comprising a "heap", and the center piece of matzah plays a special role in the ritual meal, which is described at Afikoman. The matzah is often stored in a ritual box or wrapped in a specially embroidered cloth, creating a "bundle". I think that it is possible that these connotations influenced the Australian slang. Coincidentally, the rabbi Joseph Asher who married my wife and I in San Francisco 43 years ago was earlier a rabbi in Australia in the aftermath of World War II. Cullen328 (talk) 09:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you really intend to write that rabbi Asher married your wife and that you were a rabbi yourself 43 years ago when you lived in San Francisco in Australia? — Kpalion(talk) 09:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keeping on looking in their eyes all people on the net I can get the picture of, and still, after all that time still not found my twin there. --Askedonty (talk) 23:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When a word should sound like another word, and people start saying it that way

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What's this called? I just saw somebody saying *brumination for wikt:brumation, which apparently needs the extra syllable because hibernation has one.  Card Zero  (talk) 21:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a form of analogical change. --Amble (talk) 22:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes. Flammable octopi, for example. Thank you.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect rumination might have played a bigger part here than hibernation, though. (Or at least a similar part.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The most specific linguistic term for this is "contamination", as on the linked page. A classic example of this is that the word for "nine" in the Slavic languages changed from beginning with an "n-" consonant to beginning with a "d-" consonant, since the following number word (meaning "ten") also began with "d-". AnonMoos (talk) 10:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
wikt:Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/devętь. It calls this "dissimilation" (?) and mentions a similar effect in Proto-Germanic, leading to four and five starting with the same sound. Otherwise I suppose we'd say pour wour and five. But this regularization is a terrible instinct! Number-words that sound similar are really unhelpful! For instance, none, one, and nine. This is a subject area where mistakes get expensive.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And many Romance speakers have to watch their sixties and seventies. (A plot twist in a teenager romantic dramedy I watched in my Spanish classes, where the foreigner - I think a British expat - wrote down the wrong phone number.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Indo-European words for 4 and 5 were roughly kʷetwor and penkʷe, which allowed a fair amount of scope for contamination between the two. In Germanic, there's a rather complex path between reconstructed PIE and the attested forms; Slavic 9 is simpler... AnonMoos (talk) 20:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. The non-analogical result of word-initial PIE kʷ- in English is wh-. AnonMoos (talk) 20:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Card Zero As for what it is called, are you referring to a Malapropism? Shantavira|feed me 17:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well no, to be pacific, those are correctly-formed words used in a context where they don't quite fit, such as "I hear footprints! Someone is encroaching!", or "I experienced their pleasure bi-curiously." I'm happy with analogical change, all I really wanted was a few other examples. Back-formation is related, but again slightly different since it coins new words from imagined grammar, rather than bending existing words into a more comfortable shape (while keeping the meaning the same).  Card Zero  (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, if it's correctly-formed words you want, it's a mondegreen. ColinFine (talk) 22:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, I meant that malapropisms are correctly-formed words, wrongly used. What I'm after is when the right word is distorted. And a mondegreen is a mishearing! I'm talking about when an uncommon word mutates to follow the pattern of a more familiar one.  Card Zero  (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would mischievious be an example? This erroneous variant of mischievous formed under the influence of adjectives ending in -ious such as devious and nefarious, pronounced pronouncedly differently, has become so common that it is no longer considered a grievious :) error; people even tend to think mischievous is a typo.  --Lambiam 05:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes! That's a good one because it's pronounced differently too. I suppose it's hard to prove influence, and maybe every misspelling has a claim to fit the category. Extacy seems to fit better than others, though, being a clear example of regularization through the influence of all the ex- words. Unsure about gubberment.  Card Zero  (talk) 05:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I (a Brit) have always assumed this was a deliberate US distortion intended to show distain/contempt for the institution. Do any US speakers/writers actually think it's correct? {The poster fornerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 09:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is "distain" (for disdain) one of those distortions? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's Eye dialect, and might be parody or self parody, or perhaps happen naturally. I suppose this one doesn't count, because a dialect is like a reshaping pattern applied to all the words.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A classic example from British football commentary is the hideous newly coined word laxadaisical [sic]. For example, say a goal has been scored because a defender's positioning was lax: he wasn't tight to his opponent and let him get away and score. Somehow, somebody presumably thought this didn't sound right, was vaguely aware of the word lackadaisical (i.e. lethargic, unenthusiastic), thought that "lax" was somehow an abbreviation of it, wanted to use the "correct" full word, and came up with the new word "laxadaisical". I have a feeling it was somebody like Andy Townsend or Tony Cascarino who started it, but it starting to spread to other commentators now. I listen to a lot of radio football commentary, and hear it regularly. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 12:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't get me started on sportspeak. My pet peeve is describing a victory that has only just occurred, or even before the final siren has sounded, as "famous". Fame is something that builds up over a period of time after the event in question. It comes from people reminiscing about what happened (past tense). Otoh, something that was famous a few years ago has become virtually forgotten today, sometimes even beyond the reach of google, so where's your fame now? Witness the plethora of things that "go viral" or "take the world by storm": most of them have a shelf life of barely 15 seconds, let alone Warhol's 15 minutes. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And on the same theme, when did it become the norm in sports commentary to talk about, for example, "the Hungary goalkeeper" rather than "the Hungarian goalkeeper". 'Twas not thus in my distant youth. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe he hadn't had lunch yet.
Is that a British thing? I don't recall hearing it on American TV. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ 0:48, [32]. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another one from (British) sports commentary I've just remembered (actually, I've just heard an example of it!): "hedging your bets" is increasingly rendered as "edging your bets" – possibly because of an assumed connection with being "on the edge" of two or more different choices...? Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It involves only spelling and not pronunciation, but there's a curious case of analogy working at cross purposes in the common misspelling of accordion as accordian—presumably by analogy with the common -ian adjectival ending—whereas dalmatian (the dog), which does have that ending, is commonly misspelled dalmation, presumably by analogy with the common -tion noun ending. Deor (talk) 12:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Inspired by the same part of the world are references to something "Croation" [sic]. [33], [34], [35], [36] ... -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso becoming "expresso" is presumably another example. Although according to our article that "incorrect" use of the x is common not just in English but in French and Spanish, and is consistent with the original Latin etymology of the Italian term, so I think one could argue that this is actually a reasonable adaptation of the spelling for other languages rather than an error. Iapetus (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or we can view it as a loanblend, from the recipient's express + the donor's -o.  --Lambiam 10:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think "expresso" is more of an Anglicisation than a grammatical error. It was the accepted term in the Beatnik coffee bar youth culture in 1950s London, see Expresso Bongo. Alansplodge (talk) 11:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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How common are long vowels in super-closed syllables?

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In languages other than English, how common is it for long vowels or diphthongs to be allowed in super-closed syllables ending in two or more consonant sounds? Example words are “minds,” “pounce,” and “paint.” Primal Groudon (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's rare. It might be allowed in the Germanic languages in general [excluding creoles] if you allow for the fact that long vowels are often at least somewhat diphthongized. E.g. the name 'Heintz', or glaubst 'believe' in German. It's also been reconstructed for proto-Indo-European, but reconstructions are always iffy. I don't know of it elsewhere, but I doubt Germanic is unique. — kwami (talk) 21:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In Latin, vowels are basically always shortened before word-final -nt and always lengthened before word-final -ns. AnonMoos (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure Latvian has this. Latvian phonology#Pitch accent lists three words glossed [luɔ̯ks] ColinFine (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Skimming diphthong, Faroese has nevnd (the diphthong is spelled 'ev'), Scots Gaelic cainnt, Welsh teyrn. Counting Latvian, that makes 3 branches of IE.
If you allow rising diphthongs, you'll find a lot more languages, such as Catalan with e.g. guant, but those depend on not analyzing e.g. /gwa/ as CCV (and some accounts even posit a phoneme /ɡʷ/ in this case). Of course, the same kind of argument can be made for English, where some sources analyze diphthongs as VC sequences (e.g. [aI] as /aj/), so you can probably find a way to argue all languages away if you have a theoretical model that predicts that such syllables cannot exist.
Oh, I've only been searching for diphthongs. It's easier to find languages with long vowels in this pattern. — kwami (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Arabic has a few "ultraheavy" syllables like ماد mādd, a participle. 71.126.56.38 (talk) 22:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but is the geminate CC pronounced in coda position, or only when a vowel follows? — kwami (talk) 23:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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language-correct description of size classes in statistical tables

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Hi everyone, I am looking for the correct or best description of size classes in statistical tables, e.g. age groups. I have found those in use:

0 up to below 5
…
30 up to below 35
35 and more

and another version with "to under" instead of "up to below".

I'm not looking for a simplified version as in

30 to 34
35 and more

or even with a dash (–) instead of "to".

Since I'm not a native speaker of English (but instead of German) I am asking the native speakers here for correct English :-) Specifically for the correct translation of the widely used bis unter in German tables into English, such as in

0 bis unter 5

Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you use the 30 to under 35 style, you'll be following the example of the 1820 United States census, so I suppose that way of writing the table is idiomatic for 1820, at least. You have excluded the more modern idiom of 30 to 34. I wonder why. Are you doing a search-and-replace job on a large table?  Card Zero  (talk) 20:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
30 to 34; 35 to 39; etc. works for discrete variables, limited to integers, but fails when the variable can reach a value like 34.5. If the variable is continuous, a style like 30 to 35; 35 to 40; etc. works, as the probability of the variable being exactly 35 is normally zero. I tend to think of age as continuous. To be rigorous, you could try the maths option from interval (mathematics): [30,35); [35,40); etc. It's in maths language, so it's the same in German or English, but assumes your readers have a basic understanding of mathematics. (Note: my native language isn't English, German or Maths, but I have a decent understanding of all of them.) PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I'll use the 30 to under 35 style. I had been looking for the best translation, not for a simplification or a math expression :-) Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 10:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If what you're looking for is an idiomatic English translation of 30 bis unter 35, then I don't think 30 to under 35 is it. It's a literal translation, but a native English speaker would never use such an expression. I think "30 to 34" is fine, or "between 30 and 34". --Viennese Waltz 08:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 25

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Adverb More Common Than Adjective Form

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Are there any English words where the adverb form is more common than the adjective form? (e.g anatomical, anatomically). 115.188.72.131 (talk) 06:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Only" doesn't have a corresponding adjective form (ultimately it's derived from "one"). It's possible that "really" is more common than "real". The adverb and adjective "just" are written the same, but in some varieties of English they're pronounced with quite distinct vowels, and the adverb is almost certainly more common than the adjective. AnonMoos (talk) 08:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Begrudgingly is more common than begrudging, see this Ngram Viewer graph. GalacticShoe (talk) 09:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To my surprise, carefully is more common than careful. [37] GalacticShoe (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hastily is more common than hasty. [38] GalacticShoe (talk) 13:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rapidly and rapid are an interesting case in which the lead has swapped recently [39] (with the two still relatively close and rapid slightly ahead.) Similarly, relatively became more common than relative in 2014 [40], but it remains only slightly so. GalacticShoe (talk) 23:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Literally? Oh, here's a good one: now.  Card Zero  (talk) 07:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 26

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Seremtrog na-kiskaa shinjerak

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I remember back in school in the early 1990s, at computer class, one of my classmates made a simple point-and-click adventure game called (as far as I can remember) "Seremtrog na-kiskaa shinjerak". He added a note "The name of the game means 'The black cavern of the brown death cult'" or something (I don't remember the exact words). Does this name actually mean something in some language or is it something my classmate or someone else made up? Google Translate wasn't of much help. It identified the language as Russian but could not translate a single word to English. JIP | Talk 00:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently made up, unless they had invented their own transliteration system for a language not written in the Latin script. Alansplodge (talk) 12:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

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Spanish diphthongs

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Does Spanish have any words where falling diphthongs occur before consonants, such as in made-up words loyto, peyre, sayl and muyche? I know no such words. --40bus (talk) 21:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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Clock questions

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  1. Does 12-hour clock have a written numeric form in any of continental European countries? Does it have a written numeric form in Finnish, Polish, Italian and Swedish, for example?
  2. How do English speakers say leading zero of times such as 01:15?
  3. Why does English not use word "clock" in expressions of time? Why is it not "Clock is five" but "It is five"?
  4. Does English ever use expressions such as "It is 16", "I go to sleep at 22", "The shop opens at 7"? And are terms like "15 sunset" (meaning a sunset between 15:00 and 16:00) and "19 news" (meaning a news broadcast starting around 19:00) understood in the same way as "3 PM sunset" and "7 PM news"? --40bus (talk) 06:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have also asked questions 1 – 3 on the Miscellaneous desk, where I have already answered two of them. I suggest you transfer 4 there and strike out this query or the responses might become confused. If you do so I will also address 4 there. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the place to ask these questions, not the Miscellaneous desk. These are related to language. I posted these on wrong desk because I replied to the ethnicity question there, and forgot to go to another desk. I think that this discussion should be continued there. --40bus (talk) 07:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Entertainment

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November 14

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Bumper Films tv shows now

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Bumper Films was a British stop motion company who produced the tv shows Rocky Hollow, Fireman Sam, Joshua Jones and Star Hill Ponies. I been trying to find out where are the shows now in which companies archive. Now I know what happened to Fireman Sam it got sold to Gullane Entertainment in December 2001 but where are the other shows now, which company owns them. Matthew John Drummond (talk) 13:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, the rights to S4C's animation portfolio were acquired by Hoho Entertainment in 2017. --Canley (talk) 11:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 15

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Why did Disney lose the rights to Steamboat Willie

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Hi. I was wondering why Disney lost the rights to the Steamboat Willie cartoon last year. Please let me know. Thanks. 2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA (talk) 04:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because its copyright had expired, as noted in the article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The only right Disney lost was to forbid others to make use of it. —Tamfang (talk) 23:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 17

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Music Ratings

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hi what's is V, L, or U ratings stands for https://starlingdb.org/music/new/Ricky_Nelson.pdf Samchristie05 (talk) 17:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The author explains it on this page, see number 5. You are aware, of course, that this is the author's private rating system. --Wrongfilter (talk) 17:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
man i thought this is a Professional ratings Samchristie05 (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hi. I was wondering if Jason Voorhees is still a featured article? I remember it being a featured article 10 years ago. Is it still a featured article? Let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:164:6E44:C4D0:85DD:29F2:97B0 (talk) 20:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not anymore. It was delisted in July. JJPMaster (she/they) 20:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

Hi. I was wondering if Master Chief (Halo) is still a featured article? I remember it being a featured article 10 years ago. Please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:164:6E44:C4D0:85DD:29F2:97B0 (talk) 20:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. JJPMaster (she/they) 20:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is flagged as a featured article in the big yellow box at Talk:Master Chief (Halo). Shantavira|feed me 09:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The golden star on the page Master Chief (Halo) also signifies that it is a featured article.  --Lambiam 13:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

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Cousin musicals

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Both the 1988 movie Oliver and Company and the stage musical Oliver! are derived from the novel Oliver Twist. Do you know lots of cousin musicals?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by cousin musical? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean different musicals that are based on the same story but that diverged. I gave an example. Georgia guy (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is mainly going to be famous works that are in the public domain. The most obvious example is The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, which has had many musical adaptations, including four that were highly successful: The Wizard of Oz (1902 musical), The Wizard of Oz, The Wiz, and Wicked (musical), although the last of these was really an adaptation of a derivative novel. There have also been others, see Adaptations of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. For another example, see Adaptations of The Phantom of the Opera. John M Baker (talk) 03:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
List of films based on Romeo and Juliet lists:
Adaptations of A Christmas Carol lists:
and many more...
AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 10:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
references

References

  1. ^ Klein, Alvin (19 December 1982). "Theater; 'Carol' Lacks Momentum". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 23 June 2023. Retrieved 23 June 2023.
  2. ^ "A Christmas Carol (Harnick/Legrand)". Concord Theatricals. Retrieved 22 June 2024.
  3. ^ Scheck, Frank (23 November 2022). "'Scrooge: A Christmas Carol' Review: Netflix's Trippy Take on Dickens". The Hollywood Reporter. Archived from the original on 26 November 2022. Retrieved 26 November 2022.
  4. ^ "Chichester Youth Theatre to revive A Christmas Carol – music and lyrics by Jason Carr | Musical Theatre Review". Retrieved 22 June 2024.
  5. ^ Lee, Chris Eldon (15 December 2013). "Theatre Review : A Christmas Carol at Birmingham Rep". Shropshire Events and Whats On Guide. Retrieved 22 June 2024.
  6. ^ Hickling, Alfred (7 December 2010). "A Christmas Carol – review". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 22 June 2024.
  7. ^ "A Christmas Carol Musical". Achristmascarolmusical.com. Archived from the original on 21 May 2013. Retrieved 19 May 2013.
  8. ^ "A Christmas Carol musical at Middle Temple Hall". LondonTheatre.co.uk. 8 June 2016. Retrieved 2 January 2024.
  9. ^ "Enjoy a (Brian) Blessed Christmas – Antic Disposition's A Christmas Carol". FairyPoweredProductions.com. 12 December 2019. Retrieved 2 January 2024.
AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you be a little more explicit about what makes your example "cousins" rather than just two derivative works? Other respondents have given other examples of things based on other things and such a list would go on and on as long as people care to respond. Is that what you're looking for? Like, how is "Oliver and Company" and "Oliver!" different than any two adaptations of, say, Alice in Wonderland or Robin Hood? Matt Deres (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Also Mister Magoo's Christmas Carol. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Sound of Music was based on Maria von Trapp's memoirs. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, sort of. It (the 1959 musical, not the derived 1965 movie) was based on a fictionalised German movie of 1956 (and its 1958 sequel), based on von Trapp's 1949 memoirs. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 09:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does Odie still have his own article?

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Hi. I was wondering if Odie still has his own article? I remember him having an article back then. Please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:14A:9E08:514F:EF1E:75E0:8084 (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was merged into List of Garfield characters about a year ago. The deletion discussion is here. The last version of the Odie article before it got merged is here. --Viennese Waltz 21:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does Dr. Wily still have his own article?

[edit]

Hi. I was wondering if Dr. Wily still has his own article? I remember him having an article back then. Please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:14A:9E08:514F:EF1E:75E0:8084 (talk) 21:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was merged into List of Mega Man characters about a year ago. The last version of the article before it got merged is here. --Viennese Waltz 21:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Hilda (TV Series) article is too large to be rated Start-class

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Hi. I would like to let you know that the Hilda (TV Series) article is too large to be rated Start-class and should be at a higher rating instead. What rating do you think it should be at? Please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:14A:9E08:514F:EF1E:75E0:8084 (talk) 21:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Be WP:BOLD. Also, questions about using Wikipedia are better placed at the WP:Help Desk. Matt Deres (talk) 23:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

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Caracal escapade

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I saw on a few news sources a caracal was on the loose, roaming in the streets of Chicago. It took police personnel and animal control to capture the animal. Thankfully, no one was hurt. By any chance could it have escaped from the Brookfield Zoo Chicago? Would the caracal's adventure inspire an episode of Chicago P.D. (TV series)?2603:7000:8641:810E:891A:9BCE:905A:9F59 (talk) 04:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. (Brookfield zoo) - nobody knows. Examining this news report and this one, I see a lot of assumptions that it's domesticated (and therefore an escaped pet), based on, in the first place, nothing, and in the second place that it "doesn't hunt very well": but at the same time it's reported that it may be as young as five months old, so that might explain its lack of skill. Zoos aren't known to conceal their escapes. The lack of any other possibilities points to an escaped pet.
2. (Chicago P.D.) Even on the entertainment desk, we don't answer requests for predictions. You ask if it "would" inspire an episode. Looking at the plots in use so far this year I see topics like violent robbery, social work, homelessness, alcoholism, hate crime, drug trafficking, and a serial killer. Generally speaking the subject matter is gritty, and doesn't appear to be inspired by specific recent news stories, so I'll say no, it wouldn't. But again, nobody knows.  Card Zero  (talk) 05:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

what are the lyrics

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anyone know the rest of the lyrics to "I roll up, I roll down" the mighty machines part? it has been on my mind for a long time Jude Marrero [=D (talk) 20:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I roll up, I roll down, I squash the garbage to the ground, Woah yeah, that's me. 64.53.18.252 (talk) 22:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Reckoning (1970 film) character Keresley

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In the 1970 film Peter Sallis plays the role of Keresley and he's credited as the 17th cast member on IMDB but at the end of the credits he's not shown in the credits and I also did not see him in the film. Can any of you guys try and get a photograph of which scene were Peter Sallis appeared in and then I know he's in the movie and I can list his role on IMDB as uncredited. Matthew John Drummond (talk) 22:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's extremely unlikely that someone is going to watch this 50-year-old movie more attentively than you did and snap a picture. However, our article on Peter Sallis lists The Reckoning among his screen credits and it's supported by a citation to the BFI. Whoever designed the BFI website search function hated the world and all who live on it, but this should give you the direct citation to confirm his presence in the movie (sixth name from the top). Matt Deres (talk) 15:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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Parineti Hindi Tv

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wp:deny
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

we are angry 😡 because we cannot sleep 😴 because how come indian tv 📺 director refuses to tell people to use common sense to realise that dna 🧬 will prove that parvati is none other than babli’s sister pari still alive etc?(MissionWar123 (talk) 07:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)).[reply]

Previously on Abuse the reference desk to vent about plot holes in Hindi soaps... We have an article on plot holes, that's the best I can do for you.  Card Zero  (talk) 08:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
😡 i do not care if it is fiction why is government allowing indian 📺 director to prevent parineti people actors actresses from using common sense to realise that 🧬 will prove that parvati is pari etc?(MissionWar123 (talk) 08:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)).[reply]
OK, I went and read this article about the Indian government using media regulations for political censorship, and it does indeed seem that the Programme & Advertisement Code could be used to arbitrarily censor a soap if it "Criticises maligns or slanders any individual in person or certain groups, segments". (Wait, no, that only applies to online news. Perhaps some similarly vague restriction covers TV shows?) But who is maligned in this case, the actors? And how would the government benefit by intervening?
Idiot plot is perhaps a more relevant article than the one on plot holes. I wonder if any autocratic regime anywhere has ever been so annoyed by a badly plotted show as to use the law to change it.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MissionWar123: If you think it's government job to allow or forbid TV directors to include any info or plot details in their production, ask them, the government, not us. We are not government, we are all-around-the-world volunteer editors of Wikipedia, with no power to solve your problems. Please stop your war mission here, it's pointless. Turn to local authorities instead. --CiaPan (talk) 09:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
😡 we cannot 😴 so we want you to ask government why the fuck is neeti so dumb to realise that 🧬 will prove that parvati is pari etc? MissionWar123 (talk) 09:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MissionWar123: We cannot, either. The overwhelming majority of us does not live in your country, does not know the movie and even does not speak your language. We, sitting in Australia, Brazil, China, Denmark, Iran, Laos, Portugal, Senegal or Vietnam definitely have no better access to any govenmental or political forces in your country than you have. So please stop your war here, it leads to nowhere. EOT (3). --CiaPan (talk) 10:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
that is your problem now, that is coast guard’s problem etc.
😡 on 📺 how do people not think about 🧬 etc?(MissionWar123 (talk) 10:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)).[reply]
I would watch it if I were you. Your posts from an IP address have been regularly removed. Now that you have an account, you can be blocked if your posts don't follow RD guidelines. Just some friendly advice for you. --Viennese Waltz 10:57, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i found papers about parineti at bus station ok this is my first time to join wikipedia:
😡 on 📺 sorry how do dumb people not think about 🧬 etc?(MissionWar123 (talk) 11:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)).[reply]

November 26

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First male to win a women’s sports title?

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Hi, I was hoping someone could point me to where I might find the first male to win a women’s sports title? It can be any sport, it doesn’t matter, it’s just that I’m doing a school report and I want to find something inspirational. Degurumcqueen (talk) 04:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Degurumcqueen I assume you mean a Trans woman? If so, I don't appreciate the transphobia. Sandcat555 (talk) 04:42, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean transgender athletes a good place to start would be our article on Transgender people in sports. -- Euryalus (talk) 04:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please remove this bigotry? HiLo48 (talk) 02:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Heinrich Ratjen won the women's high jump at the 1937 German Athletics Championships and the 1938 European Athletics Championships (as well as finishing 4th at the 1936 Summer Olympics). Clarityfiend (talk) 09:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the earliest circle of 5ths in Western Europe

[edit]

My question needs a little bit of an introduction (apologies for that) but it finally arrives... Be patient.

The first time the circle of 5ths appears in Western Europe (it had already made its appearance in Russia some decades before) was in the theoretical works of Johann David Heinichen as a circle of major and minor keys. But there is something odd in the way Heinichen presents the circle of 5ths: he gives the major and minor keys interlaced (so his circle, which he doesn't call "circle of 5ths" but "musical circle", is in effect two circles of 5ths interlaced) and, most bizarrely, Heinichen puts the relative minor key *after* its relative major (in the direction of the sharps): ... F > d > C > a > G > e > ... If you want to interlace major and minor keys (or major and minor perfect chords which amounts to the same thing), a practice that was shortly thereafter abandoned, then logic would dictate that you put the relative minor *before* its relative major (in the direction of the sharps): ... d > F > a > C > e > G ... so that a lower root appears before a higher root. Also in this way every root is a 3rd apart and two adjacent chords in the "musical circle" always have two common tones, the 3rd and 5th of the 1st chord (the root and 3rd of the 2nd chord).

Now (finally) my question: Can anyone see *any* rationale to Heinichen's arrangement that I couldn't see?

178.51.16.158 (talk) 11:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I couldn't think of a reason. It always appeared to me that in teaching the theory of Western harmony, an approach based on a progression of alternating major and minor thirds would be easier to understand and also more convenient to learn from, thus:
        A♭      E♭      B♭      F       C       G       D       A          
     /-----\ /-----\ /-----\ /-----\ /-----\ /-----\ /-----\ /-----\       
    A♭  C   E♭  G   B♭  D   F   A   C   E   G   B   D   F♯  A   C♯  E   G♯ 
         \-----/ \-----/ \-----/ \-----/ \-----/ \-----/ \-----/ \-----/   
            c       g       d       a       e       b       f♯      c♯     
The top line names major triads, the bottom line names minor triads, and the middle line gives the names of the individual notes of which the triads are comprised. In this chart, where the direction of the sharps is from left to right, a is between F and C, and not between C and G as in Heinichen's circle.  --Lambiam 22:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

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Statistics of the main film and television awards by genre

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Are there any statistical sources regarding film and television awards such as the Oscars, Golden Globes and Emmys that highlight the distribution of nominations and winners based on narrative genre? In particular, I would need information regarding statistics on historical genre films and TV series. Sources regarding the general trend of historical cinema over the decades would also be good. Thank you Sira Aspera (talk) 18:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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TV show with cold open that ends with cut off curse word

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I saw this question today and while I can't find the answer, I do remember that it exists. A recent television show always started with a cold open that ended with a curse word being cut off as the title was shown. What is the name of the series? 68.187.174.155 (talk) 01:09, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Miscellaneous

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November 14

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Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s

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What data is available on the breakdown by ethnicity of people in the USA taking commercial flights in the 1960s? I'm mostly interested in long-haul flights, but domestic flights could be useful too. Thanks, --Viennese Waltz 08:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When booking a flight, one's ethnicity is not recorded, so it would be surprising if any remotely reliable data exists.  --Lambiam 10:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there's this, which relates to 2015. The source of that data seems to be a survey, not information recorded at the time of booking. It would be good to know if any similar survey was carried out in the 1960s. --Viennese Waltz 15:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See [41], [42], [43], [44] for some general discussion on the topic but very few stats. Nanonic (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1960s is long before deregulation. Flight costs were very high. If you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly. Most people could not afford tickets at the time. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 17:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but there's also the question of what would actually happen. Civil rights activists from the time could give some insight into that. At least, those that weren't killed for doing things that were actually legal (or for helping others do them). --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --Viennese Waltz 06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's all very interesting, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked. --Viennese Waltz 18:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You may be interested in:
As Late as 1963, Some U.S. Airports Were Still Segregated
Social Changes in the Airline Industry
What It Was Like to Fly as a Black Traveler in the Jim Crow Era
Alansplodge (talk) 17:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but Nanonic already provided all three of those links. --Viennese Waltz 18:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh! Alansplodge (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 15

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History of skiplagging

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Airline booking ploys describes the odd practice of airlines making it cheaper to buy a ticket from A to C with a stopover at B, than to buy a ticket from A to B. If the passenger just doesn't get back on the plane or the connecting flight from B to C, he saves money and the airline gets angry and wants to punish him. The article does not explain why prices are set that way. or what harm there is to the airline, if the skip lagger doesn't leave checked luggage on the plane. I'm pretty sure they never incur many delays waiting for him to reboard. Family emergencies, business crises, getting lost in an airport, or medical issues might cause an innocent passenger not to rebound. I can't find evidence of such a pricing or punishment practice in, say Greyhound buses or Amtrak trains.

The CAB apparently regulated US airline prices before 1978. Did they price multipart trips this way under regulation? Did they or airlines seek to punish passengers before 1978 who did not complete a multistage trip? Is the word "skiplag" of long standing in this usage, or just a pun from "skip a leg" of a trip? I got no help with Google book search or asking LLMs Edison (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why does skiplagging exist? Assume you are an airline. You have a flight from A to C with a layover in B. You have no problem selling tickets from A to B, so you can charge a premium for those. However, you have trouble selling from A to C (or even B to C). There is enough to keep the flight going, but not enough to keep a good profit going. So, you discount A to C to get more people to take that flight. You might even add an extra flight from A to B at an even higher premium. As this continues, there will be a point at which the A to C is discounted to a price less than A to B.
Did this happen before deregulation? Most likely not because the government set routes and prices. They would set the route from A to B. They would set the route from A to C which may be direct and not allow a layover in B. They would set the price. They don't care about profit or popularity. They just regulate. Keep in mind that a hidden agenda of airline regulation was to keep trains and busses a viable alternative for transportation. So, they don't want planes to be cheap or routes sensible.
Now, you have A to C (with a B layover) cheaper at your airline than A to B. So, Joe the Skiplagger buys a ticket for A to C and back. He hops off at B and doesn't get back on the flight. Then, on the return flight, he tries to get back on at B even though he wasn't on the plane from C to B. What could possibly be a problem?
  • His luggage will go to C, not B. He will complain that his luggage is lost. It will be lost. Nobody will pick it up at C. Now, you, as the airline, have to hunt down his bags and get them to him.
  • FAA reporting will be wrong. You, as the airline, must report exactly who is in each seat. If you report incorrectly, you can be fined. Add up all the fines for every skiplagger. Do you want to take on that cost?
  • You want to turn a profit. You know that if you sell 100 tickets, only about 80 people will show up for the flight. So, you sell 120 tickets and you have people on standby to keep the plane full. On the return flight from C to B, Joe the Skiplagger didn't show up. You put someone in his seat. Then, at B, Joe shows up and tries to board. There is no seat. He has a tantrum. Social media trends that your airline refuses to seat paying customers. No point in trying to explain it because everyone knows that skiplagging isn't a problem and airlines should be happy to have as many skiplaggers as possible. Perhaps it was a bad idea to start your airline.
  • Back to the return flight. Joe the Skiplagger has to check in to be able to get on at B. The flight has to keep calling him at C. Joe? Where are you Joe? Your seat is here Joe? We're going to give it away if you don't show up Joe. The plane sits and waits. Joe never shows up because he is in B, not C. Finally, the gate people let someone take his seat. That means that have to "uncheck" Joe and check in another passenger. Everyone has to wait for that passenger to get on the plane, hunt for a place to put baggage, and find a seat when the plane should be pulling away from the gate. And, just because it is your airline, you get the fine from the airport for spending too many minutes at the gate. Why did you get into the airline business in the first place?
  • What if Joe bought a ticket for A to B instead of A to C and didn't skiplag? You'd know that the seat from B to C was empty. You could sell it. But, what is more important? Should Joe save %10 by skiplagging or should you be able to sell a $100 seat?
  • This list is not complete. I am only covering the main points that you need to know so you realize you don't want to run an airline.
If you look at it from the skiplagger's point of view, they are not doing anything illegal and it is the airline's fault for making the process available. If you look at it from the airline's point of view, they are losing money, increasing hassle, and dealing with FAA regulations. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 20:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of mention of the FAA here. Is this purely an American problem? HiLo48 (talk) 23:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably mostly a US thing. You need a widely used hub and spokes system for this to become common. Hidden-city ticketing mentions New Zealand for COVID-19 restrictions shenanigans and British Rail. 85.76.117.61 (talk) 15:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Further to this, in relation to ticketing on National Rail (the British railway system): it is permissible to do this (i.e. skiplagging) with "walk-up" (non-Advance) tickets, but it is explicitly prohibited if using an Advance ticket. Attempting to do this with an Advance ticket makes the passenger liable to a penalty fare or, potentially, prosecution. Advance tickets are quota-controlled and are issued for a specific service, and usually have a specific seat allocated (although some train operating companies do not offer reservable seating), whereas "walk-up" tickets such as Off-Peak Returns and Anytime Day Returns can be used on any service, sometimes subject to time restrictions. Anomalies in the fare system such that an A–C via B ticket is cheaper than A–B are not particularly common, but there are a few. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And its even possible to claim delay repay on this (compensation when passengers arrive to their destination at least 30 mins late, or 15 for specific operators). The relevant operator will ask whether you hold multiple tickets to make a claim. Additionally, its possible to claim compensation even outside the operators' control, unlike EU261. Using Trainline and possible ScotRail will give you the option of using split tickets, as well as Trainsplit.
And you didn't point out that if you have a ticket from A-B and B-C, it has to stop at station B for it to be valid. JuniperChill (talk) 19:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, with the slightly obscure exception that if one of the tickets held is a season ticket between A and B (or B and C), the A–C train doesn't have to stop at B as long as at least one train operated by that train operating company does stop at B. (I think that's right!) Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at NRCOT section 14, (specifically 14.3) it does seem like that's one exception I didn't know about. JuniperChill (talk) 00:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't seem like the airline loses anything if you assume the alternatives are 1) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B->C" or 2) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B". Then the price is fixed and the destination is negotiable. But that isn't how passengers work: they need to get to a particular place, and they want to pay the least possible fare. So the passenger wants to choose between 2) "passenger pays less for flight A->B->C and flies A->B" or 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B". The passenger would like to pay the lower fare, but the airline would like to collect the higher fare. The airline wants the passenger to choose between 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B" and 4) "passenger doesn't fly", because they believe that sufficient passengers on this route will pay the higher price if their alternative is to stay home. So the cost to the airline of skiplagging is that they lose the ability to collect the higher fare. It's then a form of price discrimination, which generally requires some mechanism to segment consumers by ability to pay rather than by the cost of providing the goods or services. --Amble (talk) 21:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 16

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Equivalents to boba liberals

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Is there an equivalent to boba liberals who are a) South Asian, b) African-immigrant, c) Hispanic, d) Middle Eastern or West Asian, e) Central Asian? Donmust90 (talk) 23:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

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Please give me some ideas of accomplishments I could make for me to become notable enough to meet WP:N

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I am well aware of WP:N, and I most definitely won't write an article about myself and violate WP:AB. Therefore, what accomplishments could I try to achieve to have myself covered enough in WP:RS sources, thus making myself eligible to pass WP:N? I know this is a very open-ended question, but I think having a Wikipedia article about myself would be a fun accomplishment in my life, and I would like to do it the "correct"/"proper" way by actually making a notable accomplishment in my life, instead of the hundreds of new editors rushing onto WP:AFC to write an WP:AB about themselves. Please help suggest some ideas of accomplishments (e.g. sports, programming, careers, digital content/media) I could attempt that WP:RS would pick up on, thus making myself notable enough for editors to write an article about myself. Thanks! Félix An (talk) 11:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to do anything at all. You need people, unrelated to you, to publish notable things about you. How often have you shown up in newspaper articles, magazine articles, television news programs? Has a movie been made about you? Have books been written about you? It isn't about what you have done. It is about what all those authors have done. The point of Wikipedia is to say "This guy has been discussed in media. This is a summary of what it all said. Here are the links to the original media sources."
I have wondered why nobody has started a "Get me a Wikipedia article" campaign. Hit up every news organization asking them to interview you about your campaign to get a Wikipedia article. Then, eventually, you will be notable in the fact that you are trying to be notable, except there are many resources published to show your notability (or lack of notability, which makes you notable for being well published as not notable). 68.187.174.155 (talk) 14:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the exception of 68's suggestion, how could we possibly do that? We don't know anything about you, your strengths or background (and don't post any of that stuff here). Besides, if we had a good idea, why would we share it with you rather than do it ourselves? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of the things you enjoy doing, which one do you predictably enjoy most? Or do you have a dream, like tackling some really tough problem? Concentrate on that one thing, putting all your energy and enthousiasm into getting very good at it. Better yet, do this because you enjoy it, not for possible recognition.  --Lambiam 04:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I enjoy getting a Wikipedia article about myself! Also eating cake and sleeping past noon.  Card Zero  (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably something to do with creating media. I wouldn't consider myself very athletic. I had an idea for writing a stage play/musical inspired by the incidents in this article, and I personally know someone who experienced the school in question: https://thewalrus.ca/robert-land-academy/ Félix An (talk) 12:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at your profile, and came up with a scheme where you take up ski mountaineering and the Canadian Olympic Committee selects you for the 2026 Winter Olympics because it's a new olympic sport and nobody else was available. Then you perform really poorly but get a stub article anyway. But I suppose there are accomplished Canadian ski mountaineers already. I wish the world stone skipping champions were notable, but that one's more of an idea for myself.  Card Zero  (talk) 06:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, these people beat me to it: https://smcc.ski/team-canada/ Félix An (talk) 12:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that in any case WP:NOLYMPICS no longer presumes notability for mere participants in the olympics. You need to be a medalist, or at least perform very well (depending on the sport); or otherwise get significant coverage. See Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 43#Formal proposal: Olympic athletes. I think we still have quite a few articles on mere participants created before the change, but I'm fairly sure new articles are likely to be deleted quickly if they don't provide more evidence of notability. Of course it's possible that the story of an athlete performing very poorly because there was no one better in this new sport and the athlete only took up the sport just over a year ago with the sole desire to get a Wikipedia article might be enough to get significant coverage so perhaps this would still work but this wouldn't come simply from participation. Nil Einne (talk) 22:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Félix An I urge you to read Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Shantavira|feed me 18:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I read that essay, and it seems to be targeted towards people who would perform WP:COI or WP:AB writing. I don't mind, since I know people are going to write very embarrassing things about me, but as the old quote goes, I think "there's no such thing as bad publicity", and I definitely wouldn't violate WP:COI or WP:AB. Félix An (talk) 06:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You could write a song like "When Will I Be Famous?". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could write a book that's sufficiently far-fetched that it would get attention, as per the section just below. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a regular at WP:BLP/N I can say many people have come to disagree your "no such thing as bad publicity" take. In fact many people want the article on them deleted once it's clear the section on some scandal isn't likely to be removed. This is particularly ironic when the history of the article strongly suggests there was a time when this person definitely wanted an article on them; but of course it happens even when that wasn't the case. Nil Einne (talk) 21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't take the advice literally, but you could look at the 2nd paragraph of George S. Kaufman's biography's "career" section for ways you might not want to become notable. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 01:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

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Static technology

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In the future, could we have another planet that is very similar to Earth, except progress is not allowed, so the population are required to remain at Neolithic levels of technology? (The population are not informed about the outside world.)

The reason I ask is because of this essay. ApricotPine (talk) 20:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For one thing, we are not supposed to offer predictions. Anything could happen in the future unless impossible by the laws of reason or by the laws of nature. So we can only discuss whether scenarios exist leading to this outcome while not violating known laws.
It is unclear who, in the sketched dystopia (or eutopia, depending on one's views), is enforcing the proscription of progress. Is this a culturally accepted restriction, in which the traditional way of life is revered so much that even the act of suggesting innovations is considered an abomination? In that case it is irrelevant whether they know about technologically advanced societies. Or are they ignorant about science, with an outside force eliminating people with an sharp mind who might discover and develop new technologies improving the way of life?  --Lambiam 23:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Peter J. Bowler wrote a book called The invention of progress, and Robert Nisbet wrote A history of the idea of progress. I haven't read either of these, but would like to. Clearly Progress#Philosophy is an idea, which a culture can become aware of and mythologize. Prior to this awareness, the culture may believe itself to be static, to exist in eternal golden stability as a static society, and may mythologize that. As Lambiam indicated, if progress is considered sufficiently sinful, it may be successfully prevented indefinitely, even in the face of other cultures that embrace innovations. The Amish provide a kind of example, although they're more conservative about innovation than completely opposed to it. I've heard the interesting suggestion that the reason for the apparent excruciatingly slow rate of progress throughout the paleolithic era and to some extent the neolithic was that a lot of creative effort went into preventing innovation from taking place, because creativity is not identical to innovation.
But what does all this have to do with the essay about meat-eating?  Card Zero  (talk) 04:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ApricotPine: This was the subject of multiple Star Trek episodes throughout the history of the franchise. It never turned out well. Ironically, (and take this with a grain of salt, please) there is amusing speculation among enthusiasts of the Fermi paradox (as a thought experiment), that one of these solutions, the Zoo hypothesis, however unlikely, implies that we, humans on Earth, are the species where "progress" (see the Kardashev scale) is not "allowed". While most people will dismiss this as total nonsense, something weird is going on with these numbers: our species has been around for 6 million years, modern humans evolved 200k years ago, and civilization is only 6k years old. From one POV, we've had plenty of time to adapt and overcome our limitations and progress as a species, and we've basically done nothing. We are still, pretty much the same hairless apes with the same biases and preferences and weird hopes and dreams. So in a way, we are the people you describe, Zoo hypothesis or not. Our values have not changed in 6000 years. Viriditas (talk) 20:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our species (Homo sapiens) has only been around for about 300,000 years. 6 million years was the split between our ancestors and the ancestors of chimpanzees. The very long time it then took to develop civilization is (I suspect, I'm not an expert) that you needed a specific combination of enough people with the right ideas all living in the same area at the same time, and with the right environmental conditions to make it worthwhile. For much of human existence, our ancestors would have been too few and too spread out for civilization to be useful or even feasible, even if someone had come up with the idea. Iapetus (talk) 11:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I stand in solidarity with our hominid species, and I think I speak for all of us when I say, I think I'll have another banana and go back to sleep. Viriditas (talk) 20:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 21

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Integrated LUFS calculation

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Is it correct that the integrated LUFS is based on the momentary loudness rather than individual samples? BTW, I've have already implemented an option to select a source (either individual samples, momentary, or even short-term) to use for the integrated LUFS calculation on the loudness (LUFS) meter part of my own peakmeter so this can be tested. 2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2 (talk) 03:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The response of a moving-coil VU meter (black line) compared to an electronic PPM indicator (grey area) of a drum beat. Level is in dB and time is in seconds
Audio samples have pressure amplitudes but do not individually exhibit Loudness that must be calculated by summation of energy in critical bands. See the EBU reference LOUDNESS NORMALISATION AND PERMITTED MAXIMUM LEVEL OF AUDIO SIGNALS. An estimate of momentarily perceived peak loudness in broadcasting is meaningful only if it integrates over long enough time to properly resolve the critical band containing the lowest audio frequency component that may be 20 Hz. Note that many broadcasting sound engineers prefer the ballistic response of VU meters with which they are familiar, see illustration. Philvoids (talk) 11:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

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Arctic snow removal

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In arctic cities where there is no sun to melt snow for weeks and it can snow multiple inches each day, where do they put the snow? Is it just pushed to the edge of town as a massive snow wall? Do they truck it to a temporary snow fill? Do they snow melting facilities? 68.187.174.155 (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In larger cities, at least, they pile the snow in public parking lots and such. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And in some they include, in and between the buildings, walkways and retail outlets, etc. one floor level above the ground, from which snow can be swept, so they don't need to use the outdoor snow-buried ground. [Ob pers: Helsinki.] {The poster formerly known as 87.812.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a video of snow removal in Tromsø, the third largest city in the Arctic Circle: [45]. You can see a few options including "spray it into the trees", but most of the snow in the video is collected into large dump trucks and then unloaded into the water of the straits surrounding the city. --Amble (talk) 18:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
During the snow season end of November to end of March Reykyavik, Iceland has a contingency plan for snow clearing whose priorities are 1: Main roads, important connecting roads for emergency services, busy collecting roads, and bus routes; 2: Other collecting roads and access to preschools and primary schools and 3: Residential streets. Roads are cleared by snow-removing machines that clear ice using salt or preferably brine to ensure safety with as little salt as possible. The city provides depots where residents can collect sand and salt for use in their neighborhoods and driveways. The reference gives service details and maps in English. National snow forecasts are shown here with past climate data in the first rerferenced article. Philvoids (talk) 18:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In Moscow and St. Petersburg snow is transported by lorries to snow-melting machines. In ordinary Russian cities they transport piles of snow to huge snow dumps in the countryside. This transportation is a rather costly enterprise, so smaller towns and neighbourhoods just leave a pile of snow in each yard to wait until the sun melts it in late April. Ghirla-трёп- 22:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's how they deal with snow in Alaska Ghirla-трёп- 22:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

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Odd snow traces

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I've recently noticed these strange dot-like traces on snow where I live. The place is outside of tree cover and my second guess were rain drops, but on the second photo below the traces appear only on the fringe of snow cover. What could form them? Brandmeistertalk 13:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "dotted" area looks to me as if someone scattered road salt over that part of the snow, either by hand or machine. Especially at the bottom of the top photo, you can see some of the individual pieces of salt in each "dot". In the second photo, the snowless area could have been a strip cleared by use of a larger amount of salt and maybe it was not scattered evenly and spread into the "dotted" area. --142.112.149.206 (talk) 14:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds plausible, thanks. Brandmeistertalk 16:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 24

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US clothing requirements circa 1914

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I'm reading about the California Impressionists circa 1914, and I can't get over the photos of these artists painting en plein air in full, three-piece suits. To my eyes in 2024, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but I am curious about the social conventions behind this. Was it considered improper for a "gentleman" to paint outside in a shirt and shorts? Why? And who was behind enforcing this? The whole thing makes no sense to me. Viriditas (talk) 21:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Appearing in your shirt without a jacket was definitely the mark of a labourer in the 19th-century. A saying was "From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" which meant that the wealth accumulated by one generation was likely to be squandered by their grandchildren. [46] This formality was a long time in passing; in the City of London office where I started work in the 1970s, a business suit was required for males and you were expected to put on your jacket if you were meeting a customer or even a manager (there was no air conditioning). Alansplodge (talk) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This photo was taken in 1874. He's sitting in the full Hawaiian sun with a suit on. You can't really tell, but it looks like a wool suit to me. All of this forced discomfort because they don't want to appear working class? It's really hard to believe and wrap my mind around. "Let's be as uncomfortable as possible because other people might think we work for a living." Makes no sense, sorry. I get that these strange ideas are passed along from generation to generation, but at some point you have to just say, "this is crazy, I don't care what people think". So why didn't people do that? Viriditas (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was a picture of Richard Nixon, from the late 1950s or so, showing him walking on a beach, while wearing a full business suit. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots00:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This one? But you know I'm not too sure what he's wearing for a jacket there, it seems to have a zipper, and to be made of a different material. That's more apparent in color photos, such as this one where he is being troubled by a Yorkshire terrier.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those jackets are super comfortable. I went through a vintage clothing phase in the 1980s (it was a thing before it was a thing) and got to wear a lot of old clothing, from the 1920s all the way up to the 1970s, and those Nixon jackets were everywhere. I can't remember what they were called, but when you wore them, there was a military and sporty aesthetic involved. The only thing I don't like about those jackets is that every time you sit down or stand up from a seated position, the versions of that jacket with an elastic waistband tend to bunch up and you have to adjust the jacket. I can't tell if Nixon's has the elastic or not. Viriditas (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Picard Maneuver. (See section 3.2.) --142.112.149.206 (talk) 10:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't even have to look; I've watched enough Trek to know exactly what you meant. Viriditas (talk) 10:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cultural expectations are very powerful, much more so than mere laws. Not only does one feel pressure from one's peers to conform, and expect their disapproval if one were to break a cultural norm, one absorbs them at a subconscious level and feels internally uncomfortable at breaking them.
I (born in the 1950s) was brought up in a culture (the UK) which expected male office workers at all levels to wear a suit (waistcoat optional) at work, and personally felt uncomfortable not doing so up until the mid 1980s, after which I transitioned to wearing (usually) a sports jacket given the choice, but several subsequent employers required me to wear a suit until around 2010, and expectation of a suit at, for example, job interviews are still widespread.
One of the reasons one sees men of the pre-WW2 era wearing suits outdoors is (I suggest) that most of them probably didn't even possess any less 'formal' (by modern standards) wear designed specifically for wearing outdoors/in public. If one is acclimatised to always wearing a particular type of clothes, their feel becomes the norm rather than 'uncomfortable', and it might never even occur to one that another, unfamiliar style might be 'more comfortable.' One of the reasons that Lawrence of Arabia won the trust of the Arabs he worked with was that he, very unusually, adopted their (climate-appropriate) dress rather than sticking to English style clothing as almost all others did.
L. P. Hartley wrote "The past is a different country, they do things differently there." I wonder how many things you, Viriditas, do today unthinkingly that people in the 22nd century will find ridiculous or inexplicable? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 05:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What I was getting at has more to do with the sense of Victorian morality and its influence on fashion. But you raise a good point about climate-appropriate dress. Why does it seem that form wins out over function until about the 1960s? Viriditas (talk) 09:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We lack an article about Station (sociological concept). It used to hold a powerful psychological grip on people, rather like Face (sociological concept). In 1669, Samuel Pepys had a new suit with gold lace and a "coloured camelott tunique". He was "afeard to be seen in it", not because he'd look like an idiot, but "because it was too fine". He worries about it on May 1st, and again on May 2nd, and still doesn't dare wear it. About 150 years before that, a startup was a kind of shoe (not to be confused with booting). Wiktionary has an etymology based on its height up the leg: actually many examples were only ankle-high. But note that one of the quotes is from ‎‎‎‎A Quip for an Upstart Courtier, and another meaning of the word is the same as upstart. These are shoes that a peasant maybe shouldn't wear, because they're slightly too nice, and above the peasant's station. Back in 1669, on May 10th, Pepys is vexed by remarks a friend makes about how fine his coach is, and this friend "advises me to avoid being noted for it, which I was vexed to hear taken notice of, it being what I feared and Povy told me of my gold-lace sleeves in the Park yesterday, which vexed me also", and so he resolves never to appear in the royal court with the sleeves, and in fact has them cut off. Presumably if he went around dressed above his station - tricky to calculate - he risks social shunning, and wouldn't get his dream job (for instance, starting the Royal Navy, becoming a member of parliament, and being president of the Royal Society). This is clearly a load of bullshit: such appointments shouldn't depend on wearing the right amount of gold lace. Round about 1800, men seem to finally grasp this, and we have the Great Male Renunciation, which is where the custom of wearing sober suits in muted colors begins. Note that they were functional and practical, at the time, compared to what went before. But men are still really stupidly worried about what their clothes are asserting about their station in life, even with all the gold ornaments taken off and the color subdued, and this continues for another hundred years, at least. On the one day he actually dared to wear his fancy suit, Sam Pepys records: "This day I first left off both [!] my waistcoats by day, and my waistcoat by night, it being very hot weather, so hot as to make me break out, here and there, in my hands, which vexes me to see, but is good for me." People thought suffering in hot weather was healthy? To quote the great sage Butt-Head, "I don't know, maybe they're stupid". Clothes denoted status because cloth was expensive, hence the ruff, a display of cramming as much cloth as physically possible around one's neck. And these status-through-amount-of-cloth-worn anxieties are very old, and go back to the social status obsessed Romans, and the voluminous toga.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Subscribe. Viriditas (talk) 10:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</ref>[reply]
Apparently, some Englishmen (with or without their mad dogs) emigrated to Hawaii. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's help everyone out with a link. Viriditas (talk) 09:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that you might get used to being hot because of lots of clothes. If you've been brought up wearing multiple woolen layers in the summer, then it would be normal, whereas modern children are used to running around in shorts and T-shirts.
The French Army in both World Wars required their soldiers to wear a heavy woollen greatcoat all year around, which would be a lot hotter than a suit.
Alansplodge (talk) 18:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think Laurie Lee mentions in Cider With Rosie that farm labourers would add an extra layer to keep the heat of the sun out. And I remember farmworkers wearing cardigans, jacket, and tie in blazing hot weather. DuncanHill (talk) 19:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They still do in Hawaii. It's odd to see if you're not used to it. I may have some old photos somewhere. Viriditas (talk) 19:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the 1980s I worked for a small software house in Cambridge (the original Cambridge, not a foreign imitation) and we had no dress code (and, of course, people were responsible, and dressed appropriately if they were meeting visitors etc). We were acquired by a large US-based company, and I was posted to a facility near the headquarters for a few months in 1990. I knew that their dress code was shirt and tie, and that wasn't a problem. My first week there, they told me about dress-down Friday, and I honestly thought they were pranking me, because it was such a self-evidently bonkers idea. Either the management cared about your comfort or they didn't: what was the point of casual dress one day a week? ColinFine (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All of this forced discomfort because they don't want to appear working class? It's really hard to believe and wrap my mind around. "Let's be as uncomfortable as possible because other people might think we work for a living. I think even a lot of working-class people wore suits back in the day. Wearing a suit of that sort (even when it was uncomfortable or climatically inappropriate) was I think more just due to social conventions about what was respectable, than a way to demonstrate that you didn't work for a living. Iapetus (talk) 12:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1930s leukemia treatment

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Were there treatments for leukemia in the 1930s? 86.130.15.246 (talk) 21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the newly discovered X-ray was used to treat leukemia. Doctors found that radiation therapy worked best against chronic leukemias, but it was useless against acute types. X-rays could provide months or even years of remission for people with chronic leukemia, but the disease would always return.

The first medications for leukemia grew out of the horrors of World War I, when it was discovered that the chemical weapon mustard gas suppressed the production of blood cells.


No. Mustard gas#Development of the first chemotherapy drug says it was trialled in 1942, and eventually (when?) entered clinical use as chlormethine.  Card Zero  (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to History of Radiation Therapy Technology, radiotherapy was first used on a leukemia patient in 1903. Alansplodge (talk) 18:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to Chlormethine § History the effect of mustard gas on bone marrow and white blood cells had been known since the First World War. Further chemical and biological research led in 1935 to the discovery of a related family of chemicals with nitrogen substituting for sulfur was discovered – the "nitrogen mustards" and the synthesis of chlormethine. World War II research led to clinical trials for use in chemotherapy. The research could only be published in 1946. There is no contradiction, but the path leading from the chemical weapon of WWI to the drug that became available after WWII is not straight.  --Lambiam 18:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In The Waltons episode The Gift, Jason's best friend Seth was stricken with leukemia and had only a year to live. They mentioned there was no cure and did not mention treatments. 86.130.15.246 (talk) 22:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 25

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USPS tracking number

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Last week I ordered a small item on ebay and the seller (through ebay) sent me a tracking link that forwards to a usps.com tracking page. The message said the item should show up in tracking within a few hours, but that was 4 or 5 days ago and it's still not there. The tracking number is 31 digits starting "00040106..." which doesn't look like a USPS tracking number to me. I think I have seen 4010... tracking numbers before, but don't remember where. USPS ones seem to usually start with 9 though maybe not always.

Anyway it seems like too many digits. USPS, UPS, DHL, and Fedex don't recognize the number, with or without the leading 0's removed. Does anyone have any idea? Ebay makes it quite difficult to contact the seller since I checked out as "guest" rather than logging in. It wants me to either create an account to contact the seller (I don't want to do that since I already have an account) or log into my existing one (I can't for now, because of computer issues that aren't relevant here). So I'm asking for any wisdom about either ebay or about tracking number formats.

I do know that some shippers are doing a thing where they send the package by DHL to a post office near the recipient, and USPS brings it to the person's door. That might be the case with this package. It has become quite expensive to send small items by normal USPS methods.

Thanks -- 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 20:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that Wikipedia can be of much specific help here, but you might try putting your tracking number into a "global tracker" that runs the search through multiple carriers. I often use 17track (can't link to it) for tracking international orders into Canada. It's also possible that your seller (or eBay itself) created a shipping label and tracking number for the item but the seller hasn't actually shipped it yet. You probably will have to contact the seller to resolve this, which means you probably will have to create a throwaway account if you don't want to use your existing account. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I tried 17track and it said something about Pitney Bowes creating the label. Yeah it's probably not shipped yet. I am reluctant to make a throwaway ebay account because the guest checkout had my name/address/cc# which match the ones in my existing account, and the two accounts might trigger their security alerts. I can't login to my normal account right now because the computer I use for that is broken and I have to fix or replace it. If the thing is simply pending shipping, it's no big deal. It's a $4 computer part and I can just buy another one locally for now, and maybe eventually have a spare. I was sort of hoping for an answer like "4010... is a tracking number for XYZ and it means [whatever]" but that would have been too good. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 21:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The way it works is the seller prints a label and a tracking number is created. It does not mean that the item has shipped. It may never ship. It only means a label was created. For small sellers, it is expected that they make a shipping trip once a week. So a few days wait is normal. It will register shipped when actually shipped. If the seller is in a foreign country, the item won't show as shipped until it is in the domestic shipping system. I've had packages from China get a tracking number right after I ordered, but aren't listed as shipped for months because it apparently was sent through a bulk service by boat that waits for a container to be full until it is loaded on a ship and then has to get unloaded and sorted before showing up in the shipping system. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 01:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So a slow boat from China, rather than to it, literally. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 26

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Aviation: Who designed these 2 liveries?

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Kuwait Airways' current livery applied on an Airbus A330-800neo
MEA's 2008-2021 livery applied on an Airbus A330-200

Hello. Who are the designers behind Kuwait Airways' current livery and MEA's livery from 2008 to 2021? I had researched but I could not find any answer. The closest leads were a newsroom article that celebrated the delivery of MEA's first Airbus A330[1] and a Kuwait Times article that celebrated the delivery of Kuwait Airways' first Boeing 777-300ER[2]. Both of the articles mentioned that the delivered airplanes were the first ones of the 2 airlines with the aforementioned liveries; however, the articles did not reveal the designer(s)/design agency behind the liveries. I would appreciate if someone did the research and/or knew the designers.FSlolhehe (talk) 21:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

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Race and ethnicity

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Why most Eastern European countries collect data on race and ethnicity but most Western European countries do not? And of Western European countries, why however UK and Ireland collect such data, despite having similar immigrant populations to rest of Western Europe? Which is the reason for that? --40bus (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do they? Nanonic (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What's the basis of your premise? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have wondered that in recent times. I find odd that UK and Ireland collect, whereas other Western European countries do not? --40bus (talk) 06:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources

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Is the NRA (National Rifle Association) considered a reliable source for firearm topics? They issue a magazine that I get and was wondering if they could be used. If you have any questions or need more information just let me know. User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 28

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Clock questions

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  1. Does 12-hour clock have a written numeric form in any of continental European countries? Does it have a written numeric form in Finnish, Polish, Italian and Swedish, for example?
  2. How do English speakers say leading zero of times such as 01:15?
  3. Why does English not use word "clock" in expressions of time? Why is it not "Clock is five" but "It is five"? --40bus (talk) 06:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


2. Usually we do not when the context is clear, and if it isn't we would usually add ". . . a.m." or ". . . in the morning." In some contexts (for example, in relation to a train or similar timetable) we might say "Oh-one fifteen"; "Zero-one fifteen" would be understood but is not usual. In a militarily related context "One-fifteen Zulu" might be used (my father, a retired soldier, sometimes uses this convention when talking to me).
3. We do. The usual expression is "It is five o'clock"; "It's five" is also used in hasty or informal conversation when the context is clear. However, this only applies to 'on the hour' times; we normally say "It's five-thirty" or "It's half-past five, for example. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]