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Where No Fan Has Gone Before

Hi Doniago, a few minutes ago you reverted my edit to the page on the Futurama episode Where No Fan Has Gone Before. Frankly it was a very minor point and not worth a lot of fuss over, but I didn't find your suggestions about documentation very helpful. I saw nothing in the links you gave about how to document a video episode itself as a source, and indeed I don't see this done very much anywhere on wikipedia; indeed, the plot description from this article itself has no citation. But anyone who watches the episode can see that the plot description is fairly accurate. They can also see that several scenes are obviously set on something that looks a like the Vasquez rocks. If you don't feel that's an important point to add, that's one thing; but if you want it "documented," well, what sort of documentation would be acceptable? Something like "Note 1: episode time 14:12-17:34"?? Or do we really need a printed source of somebody else making the point that the cartoon planet was modelled after the Vasquez Rocks (and would this really be more authoritative/reliable than just looking at the episode itself)? I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful here, I'm really asking an honest question: how is this supposed to be documented, and how is anyone supposed to know what you would count as acceptable, when this is not described in the links you gave, or exemplified in the rest of the article? I actually don't care very much whether this edit is kept or not, but I would like to know in general how to do this. Please fill me in better.ScottForschler (talk) 17:37, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for reaching out to me with your concern. The message I left you isn't intended to provide specific instructions about how to provide a satisfactory citation in all instances, but rather is a generalized template intended to help editors understand why references are important and how to provide them in the broad strokes.
You can find specific information on how to cite an episode of television (I'm assuming that's what we're talking about here) at Template:Cite episode...however, your claim that part of the episode is set on something that looks like Vasquez Rocks would be original research without a source that explicitly makes that claim, so simply citing the episode itself would be insufficient. It might be mentioned in the audio commentary, though? If that's the case, you could 'borrow' the existing citation used in the article that references the commentary track.
Plot summaries don't require sources because the episode itself is the source. WP:TVPLOT discusses this in some detail, but as long as the summary is strictly a recap, without interpretation or editorializing, there's no issue there.
I hope this helps! Happy to try to address any other questions or concerns you might have! DonIago (talk) 00:56, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, this does indeed help clarify the distinctions here. I also have since learned that my point about the rocks was already made as part of a much longer list once in the article, but since moved to the talk page, and that such long lists of cultural references/facts are generally not placed within wikipedia episode pages, so I'm content to leave it there.ScottForschler (talk) 11:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Glad I could help! Editor opinions vary on the utility of "In popular culture..." style sections...my view is that they can be useful or at least interesting, but that they must be well-sourced, and per WP:IPCV they must be secondary sources. One of the big challenges with such sections, though, is that once they exist, well-meaning editors will tend to add their own observations or "it's obvious"-style items without providing such sources, so if they're not monitored they can get wildly out of hand and become collections of trivia and insignificant or unfounded observations ("There's a cloud in the episode that looks like Leonard Nimoy's head."). DonIago (talk) 13:16, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

List of Criterion Collection releases

Hello, Doniago,

I'm not sure why you tagged this page for deletion. When you looked at the page history, it would have been clear that this was a User page that a new editor had improperly moved to main space. I've returned it to User space. Please look into a page history before tagging an article for problems in case inappropriate editing like this has occurred. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 17:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Understood; thank you for pointing out my oversight. If you don't mind my asking, in the (admittedly unlikely I think) event that I find myself with this kind of scenario in the future, what's the best option? Can I move the page back on my own? Should I contact an admin directly? Thanks! DonIago (talk) 18:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi Liz (talk · contribs), just checking in with you on this as I didn't hear back. Just want to make sure I follow the best process next time around. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Carrier pigeons for you!

Carrier pigeons
Upgrade now to IP over Avian Carriers. 🙂 ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
(This may also be a server issue, though. wikitech:Wikimedia infrastructure contains interesting diagrams of all the things that can cause issues.) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
I have no idea, but at times today and late yesterday (my time, that is) Twinkle form submissions and the usually handy reply tool just kept zoning out on me. The presumption would be that nothing got done, and my contributions page wouldn't update, but then at a later time the submissions would post, resulting in things like that double-SPI filing. I really hope whatever's going on clears up! Thanks for your help with that IP problem and for keeping a sense of humor about it! DonIago (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
😊 no problem. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:31, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Films that won two of the "Big Three"

Hello Doniago. I saw that you wrote to me about the edit I made on The Wages of Fear. I didn't understand what kind of source would be needed: in the article for the film Justice Is Done I saw that it won the Golden Lion (Venice) and the Golden Bear (Berlin), so The Wages of Fear is not the only film to have won two highest prizes from the "Big Three" film festivals (Venice, Berlin and Cannes). Should a similar source addition be made on Justice Is Done as well? 82.50.134.56 (talk) 18:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes. I've tagged it for needing a source as well. DonIago (talk) 19:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
OK, thank you, but so what kind of source is needed? I did a comparison of the lists of films in these articles (Golden Bear, Golden Lion and Palme d'Or) and I found that only "Justice Is Done" and "The Wages of Fear" won two awards 82.50.134.56 (talk) 20:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
What you did is what we call original research. Which is great! But isn't sufficient for Wikipedia. We need a source that explicitly backs up the claim you'd like to publish in the article(s). Hope this clears it up, but please let me know if not! DonIago (talk) 22:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Per the documentation on Template:Rotten Tomatoes, I restored the link to the site as it’s extremely useful to the reader as well as allowed by policy from what I can see. In fact, it specially states that it may be used as both a citation and an external link. If there’s a different criteria for removing it, please let me know. Otherwise, it’s a benefit to the reader to leave these links. Hy Brasil (talk) 01:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

What I'm confused about is why you pointed me to WP:ELRC, which states, "Sites that have been used as sources in the creation of an article should be cited in the article and linked as references, either in-line or in a references section. Links to these source sites are not "external links" for the purposes of this guideline, and should not (emphasis mine) normally be duplicated in an external links section.
The template instructions are merely stating that the template can be used as an external link; they are not advocating for doing so. DonIago (talk) 02:02, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
Because of the bottom portion of the policy which you omitted:
Exceptions—websites that can be both references and external links—include any official sites for the article topic, or websites that are specifically devoted to the topic, contain multiple subpages, and comply with the criteria for links to be avoided.
Also, this is directly linked from the template. Hy Brasil (talk) 02:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
Honestly, it's not really worth my time to argue about this, but don't be surprised if other editors feel it's duplicative and remove it in the future. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 02:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

In regards to my reply and help

Sorry if im not sure if you read the reply, but here is Jeff Goldblum's imdb filmography where he was the voice of the radio announcer in The Stand (1994 miniseries) and that he was the host of PBS' Future Quest series in 1994. Those are apparently missing in his television filmography segment. Was wondering if you have the honor to fill them in as well as revert The Stand 1994 miniseries article back but with his imdb filmography as the citation: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000156/?ref_=nmbio_ov_i Thanks again. :) 67.43.190.226 (talk) 20:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

I've replied at your Talk page; we can continue the conversation there. DonIago (talk) 20:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

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42nd St Shuttle

I totally disagree with your assessment of my posting on the car configuration on the 3 tracks on the shuttle. People write books based on their personal experiences - they are hailed as authors. If it were possible I would challenge you and Epicgenius to prove me wrong and tell me how many times you and Epic have ridden the 42nd St shuttle prior to the rebuilding project (if you have ever ridden it at all). I lost count of how many times I have ridden the shuttle going all the way back to the late 1950s when I was a child and the configuration was always 3-4-3. Allan (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

As I said at your talk page, Wikipedia editors are not reliable sources. DonIago (talk) 06:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

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Songs written for films

In 2016 you started Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_November_21#Category:Songs_from_films. The category has been renamed, but purging still has not done. Would you like to check the articles? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Sounds like something that could keep me out of trouble for awhile, heh. It's something I can start taking a look at! DonIago (talk) 15:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Re: Scott Pilgrim revert

Thanks for explaining. I didn't know the actors' names had to be on the movie poster to appear in the infobox, and you're right - Ellen Wong isn't there :( such a shame since I just watched Scott Pilgrim for the first time and she was absolutely one of the stars! Arvinahmadi (talk) 20:30, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Yep. It's nothing against the various talents in the film, but we needed some way to settle the question of who appears in the infobox, and the consensus was that going by who received billing on the film's poster was the best way to do so. At times it's pretty arbitrary.
Also, welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you enjoy your time here! DonIago (talk) 01:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Per Zootopia

Hi, DonIago. Thank you for notifying me regarding your reversion of my edits on the plot summary of Zootopia. I've added a short paragraph discussing the particular changes that I think would be beneficial and my reasons for thinking so and hope you could give further detail for this on the talk page of the article. Thank you, The Voivodeship King (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification; I've replied there. DonIago (talk) 17:23, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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Animal Farm and its Critics

I received your message concerning the Animal Farm plot additions. I am uncertain what, besides exceeding the "limits" for how long each sentence ought to be and its accompanying structure, I have done wrong. Please explain. 100.15.83.54 (talk) 01:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out to me! Please review WP:NOVELPLOT; the concern isn't regarding individual sentences but the overall length of the plot summary. Please let me know if you have any questions! DonIago (talk) 05:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

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