User talk:Atsme/Archive 40

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Atsme. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 35

←

Archive 38

→

Beethoven 250 years

The birthday display! - It was possible! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Yay!!

Atsme 💬 📧 16:34, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Did you click on Beethoven below the pic for the accumulated DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I saw the article on the front page in DYK and the pic. I clicked on Cello Sonata No. 3 - is that what you're asking? Atsme 💬 📧 18:21, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

No, I mean under the pic right here. In the DYK section, we had 5 related articles, which is less than the 16 for Frank Sinatra on his 100th, but MUCH more than we normally do, so I'm grateful. Long discussions to get there ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I actually did see the Beethoven-related DYKs on the main page, but didn't realize it had special significance. Wow! That's amazing. Question - re: the wikilink to your Beethoven 2020 subpage - did you create or contribute to all in that list? Atsme 💬 📧 20:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

most of them, perhaps 3 not --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Cite Unseen update

Hello! Thank you for using Cite Unseen. The script recently received a significant update, detailed below.

You can now toggle which icons you do or don't want to see. See the configuration section for details. All icons are enabled by default except for the new generally reliable icon (described below).
New categorizations/icons:
- Advocacy: Organizations that are engaged in advocacy (anything from political to civil rights to lobbying). Note that an advocacy group can be reliable; this indicator simply serves to note when a source's primary purpose is to advocate for certain positions or policies, which is important to keep in mind when consuming a source.
- Editable: Sites that are editable by the public, such as wikis (Wikipedia, Fandom) or some databases (IMDb, Discogs).
- Predatory journals: These sites charge publication fees to authors without checking articles for quality and legitimacy.
- Perennial source categories: Cite Unseen will mark sources as generally reliable, marginally reliable, generally unreliable, deprecated, and blacklisted. This is based on Wikipedia's perennial sources list, which reflects community consensus on frequently discussed sources. Sources that have multiple categorizations are marked as varied reliability. Note that generally reliable icons are disabled by default to reduce clutter, but you can enable them through your custom config. A special thanks to Newslinger, whose new Sourceror API provides the perennial sources list in a clean, structured format.
With the addition of the new categorizations, the biased source icon has been removed. This category was very broad, and repetitive to the new advocacy and perennial sources categorizations that are more informative.

If you have any feedback, requested features, or domains to add/remove, don't hesitate to bring it up on the script's talk page. Thank you! ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 23:09, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

You are receiving this message as a user of Cite Unseen. If you no longer wish to receive very occasional updates, you may remove yourself from the mailing list.

Arbitration elections

Yay!! The results! Cautiously optimistic that we'll be seeing some positive changes as a result of this energetic new team of arbitrators! Atsme 💬 📧 19:04, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Is this the first time that every candidate got >50% support votes? --GRuban (talk) 19:13, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

I have no clue, GR - I suck at math.

Atsme 💬 📧 19:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it's the first: [1]. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing that link, Tryp. Interesting. Atsme 💬 📧 22:47, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

CU/IP - carried over from SPI page

New users are promised they can "Edit without revealing your IP address (which can be used to trace your physical location) to the public." - Wikipedia:Why create an account?. Checkusers are forbidden to breach that privacy - Wikipedia:CheckUser#IP information disclosure. Happy Christmas, Cabayi (talk) 14:11, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Interesting - I'll have to read it after the cinnamon spiked eggnogs settle down. Never imagined cinnamon spikes could give you a buzz.

Atsme 💬 📧 19:24, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Copy editing help

Happy holidays, I was searching for volunteers who'd help copy edit articles, I've been working on this article for a while, but think it could use some help copy editing. If you have time, please help me out, but if not I understand as well, Thanks Tamil loanwords in Biblical Hebrew Kanatonian (talk)

Hi, Kanatonian, apologies but I'm snowed under all of this week and partly into next. Perhaps another time? Happy Holidays!! Atsme 💬 📧 20:55, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Oh please stay safe, being a Canadian, I understand, this can wait as long as you want, no real hurry at all. Take care Kanatonian (talk)

Oh my, Kanatonian - with thoughts of snow in Canada, I hope you didn't misinterpret my use of "snowed under". ^[hyperbole] I'm using the term relative to having a full plate, ^[hyperbole] or having lots of other things to do. Regardless, your response was very kind & thoughtful, and I appreciate it very much.

Atsme 💬 📧 12:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

No problems, I did really think, you were snowed under, LOL, keep "shoveling" :) Kanatonian (talk) 18:04, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Kanatonian, I will keep shoveling but being that I'm a rancher, it won't be snow. 😂 Atsme 💬 📧 22:03, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I sure hope that you don't have a plate full of what you're shoveling. I've been watching this thread and smiling at the thought of snow in Bonaire. Was toying with saying something about hell having frozen over, but it would have sounded strange to say paradise had frozen over. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Tryp - I'm working on getting a WP editathon here on the island. I just learned there's already a group of editors here but I haven't made much progress because of the holidays. I'll work at it after things return to normal. Atsme 💬 📧 23:24, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Moved Holiday greetings to UP for safe keeping

See User:Atsme#Holidays and special occasions Atsme 💬 📧 22:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Glacier NP

Thanks for stepping in to the rescue..I was about to go sideways as shown in my talkpage retort. Bascially any paragraph that ended without a ref they slapped a CN tag on it...truly not a real review process, and just mere happenstance and arbitrary and lazy...and that makes MONGO very angry!!!!! I loathe such sloppiness. Oh and Happy New Year you expatriot.--MONGO (talk) 22:43, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Wait, Atsme, what happened? Are you not a patriot anymore? ^[FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 23:04, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

So, Happy Epiphanytide

Happy Epiphany!

Martinevans123 (talk) 14:00, 5 January 2021 (UTC) [2]

Thank you, Martinevans123. I'm in the perfect place for such an experience!! So glad you're back. Atsme 💬 📧 14:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Environmental impact of recreational diving

Hi Atsme, If you have the time and inclination, would you read through Environmental impact of recreational diving and let me know if you see any obvious errors or omissions or any of the specifically WP problems. Have a pleasant year, Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 11:08, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment at ARCA

Hello, Atsme. I was confused by the most recent statement you posted at ARCA. Are you sure you didn't mean to put this comment into the lower section? From context, this seems to be more about the warning under AP2 and not the dates AP2 covers. Thanks. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:49, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Something isn't quite right, Eggishorn - I'm not seeing a lower section but if there is one re: the 2nd appeal, then yes. Did you see what I asked the clerks? That comment doesn't show up in either FireFox or Chrome. I'm not sure what's going on. Atsme 💬 📧 16:54, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

I did see your comment to the clerks and the comment you left about 15 minutes ago, both in the section "1) Requests for clarification and amendment > 1.4) Amendment request: Warning of Objective3000 > 1.4.13) Statement by Atsme". I was asking about the comment you left about 4 hours ago in the section ""1) Requests for clarification and amendment > 1.1) Amendment request: American politics 2 > 1.1.20) Statement by Atsme". That comment, although placed in the American Politics 2 section seemed like it was a response to discussions in the Warning of Objective3000 section. Just wondering. I hope that helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:01, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

OMG, Eggishorn! I am such a dork. I didn't realize what happened at first, and I thank you for pointing it out to me. Hopefully, it is now fixed properly, (and I thanked you in my edit summary). It's too early to blame my stupidity on Happy Hour, huh?

Atsme 💬 📧 17:07, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

It's Sunday. Just say you were still sleepy from getting up late or listening to a long homily, whichever best applies. ;) Happy to help. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:10, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

The pitcher of Mimosas you had for breakfast? —valereee (talk) 21:13, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

LMAO!! You were close!^[stretch] Actually...📸 pitchur a Tervis Tumbler half-filled with MIO Orange Tangerine flavored water & the other half filled with Pink Moscato Sangria = (Italian) Bonarian Mimosa. To compliment, add a Bays English Muffin (toasted to perfection) topped with homemade Pika Fruit Jelly (Cranberry Habanero) & a thin layer of real butter. For some reason, the flavored water lasts longer than the muffin. After ~~5:00~~ 4:00 pm if/when I have company - out come the Pink Ladies...my private recipe that includes a splash of Cherry Cordial (bottled in Curacao) and whatever else strikes me at the time when making frozen drinks!! For the guys - well...whatever they like but I need advance notice because the island is limited on imported beer. However, if you're from the US, Polar & Amstel would be comparable to an import. 🤣 Atsme 💬 📧 21:33, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Damn! I need to figure out a way to visit! Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:38, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

We need to get Wikipedia:WikiProject Caribbean active again. I'm working on it on my end. If I can get hooked-up with the Bonairean Wikipedians, we might just make something happen - like a Bonairean WikiCon - after all this COVID mess settles down! 🤞🏻 Atsme 💬 📧 21:48, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

My Italian Mom

True story.

I telephoned my 96 yo Mom this morning, and she told me about her adventure getting in & out of the tub.
Concerned, I said Mom, use the walk-in shower and don't try to get in and out of the tub. You'll hurt yourself.
With a hint of frustration she said, I never should've sat down, because it was hell getting back up.
Had to do it from a kneeling position and lift one leg at a time over the tub.
She gave a short laugh and said, What I need is a book about getting old.
I suggested, Mom, if you get a book about getting old, get a funny one. It won't be as depressing.
She shot back, Yeah, like when you get old and bend over, you fall backwards.

Atsme 💬 📧 00:32, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Adding - no better time for laughter, & a little chill time. My sides are hurting from laughing! Atsme 💬 📧 15:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	Thank you for your help at the Paper Mario: The Origami King peer review! I hope I can see your support at the featured article nomination. Le Panini ^Talk 11:02, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Le Panini! It was fun because it invoked a few Mario Brothers memories of my own. Atsme 💬 📧 11:21, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

WP 20

Thank you for good wishes! - Happy Wikipedia 20, - proud of a little bit on the Main page today, and 5 years ago, and 10 years ago, look: create a new style - revive - complete! I sang in the revival mentioned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:21, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Ms Gerda!! You have been one busy bee racking up 258k+ edits over the past decade!! Incredible!! I saw Oscar Fritz Schuh in the DYK section of the main page - your work? I'm sending you the best of my best wishes!! You put the class in classical, my Wikifriend!! Don't walk barefoot through the frosty nettles! Atsme 💬 📧 23:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Today it's a pic I took --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

... and today Vision pictured (not by me), with Arik Brauer in the news, so art in Vienna twice --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

... and today Jerome Kohl, remembered in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Gerda - wow - the artwork around that building is incredible but isn't it blocking the windows? Have you seen it from the inside?

...So sorry about Jerome, Gerda - I don't recall ever crossing his path on WP but he was obviously a great contributor...may he rest in peace. Atsme 💬 📧 17:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

the other house is this. - Jerome came into my life in 2009, it's still on Talk:Siegfried Palm, my second article. As explained on my talk (last of the links above), we edit-warred but always in friendship. It was a shock to hear that he died in September (he died in August but we heard in September), and now in the new year it was determined to write the proposed article, pushed by a new source provided by a user whose name I had never heard and turns out to be an M.I.T. professor. I plan to write/translate an article about Stockhausen's first wife, - no end to red links ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Good wishes on my talk, and thank you for your fairy card! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

I would love to have that jewel in a platinum gold setting - ring or necklace will do.

Atsme 💬 📧 22:04, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Imagine. - I tried to give 2021 a good start by updating the QAI project topics. Please check and correct. For moar private "happy new year" see here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Cow stories (and some horses and sheep)

I think this is another beautifully-made film. No metaphor in this one. Bus stop (talk) 20:15, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

OMG, Bus stop!!! I am in awe!! But not only because I wish my programs were getting 16,995,798 views (

) but because the advances in technology rise to a level that is off the charts! I just hope that the human to animal bond is never lost as a result of such advanced assembly line automation. Thank you so much for sharing that video. Wow!! Atsme 💬 📧 20:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah Busty, you're a real scream! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

LMAO!!! Atsme 💬 📧 20:33, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

The film actually shows the human to animal bond. It is shown not only by what is depicted visually but by the accompanying music, and by the fact that it documents so many different aspects of cow-life, which have direct correspondences to human lives—grooming, eating, birthing, foot care. Bus stop (talk) 20:52, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Bus stop, thank you so much for this! I watched the entire thing, and bookmarked it. As someone who has lived suburban and urban my whole life, I've heard bad things about factory farming, but this is an amazing and beautiful counterpoint. And it got me thinking of, and missing, Dr. Chrissy. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:59, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for saying that. Another observation I would make is that it shows people at their jobs. Their jobs are caring for animals. No doubt they do this on a daily basis, they have work shifts, there are reasons they find themselves in this line of work, and they try to carry out their duties in as stress-free a manner as possible, mindful that the animals are also living their lives. Nice mention of DrChrissy. Bus stop (talk) 21:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Awww...I miss Chris, alot. 😢 Back on point - most of my life has been focused on animals/nature/environment/conservation, for longer than I care to admit. Of course, my ranch is not on the scale as some of the Holstein farms demonstrated in the video, and rather than full automation, we have Manuel labor, along with Scott, Crissy, Shannon, etc. (it's a labor of love, not unlike some of us WP editors). Again - WOW!! My ranch can accommodate about 100 head of horses and maybe 100 head of cattle but we keep it much lower in order to provide the best care and attention for each individual - and for "social distancing" (before that term became widely used). We call it quarantine in the horse/cattle industry when animals are transported over State lines, and held up, or they're hauled in and out of the ranch, and we isolate them. We do our best to eliminate all risk factors to achieve -0- possibility of contagion. We have been quite fortunate in that regard, and have handled thousands upon thousands of livestock over the years. 😊 Atsme 💬 📧 21:24, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Thought I mentioned Temple Grandin, who deserves a lot of credit for some of the humane changes that have been made in the handling of livestock. I'm still in a tailspin over that video so please forgive any duplicates. Atsme 💬 📧 21:31, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

I like the moments when one's reaction is reflected in the the faces of the animals. For instance we see a cow being born and the film cuts to a closeup of a cow's face with eyes bulging in awe. That cow's face seems to be an expression of what we as viewers are experiencing—the amazingness of a baby cow coming out of a mother cow's body. I also like that it depicts the animals as idiosyncratic individuals. In this sense the film is a fairy tale, but that ingredient is acceptable to me. For instance at the beginning a multitude of cows are walking in one direction, but one cow decides to turn and walk in the opposite direction. Or later on in the film we see one cow lingering interminably under a rotating brush, obviously because it feels good. Bus stop (talk) 21:39, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

The expressions an animal makes are true indicators - facial, body language, and sound. We expect certain instinctual behaviors from humans, and we expect certain instinctual behaviors from animals. It's all about genetics but in all species there are truly unique individuals. I remember the early arguments about animals being unable to make rational decisions. Ok, so you decide how inept a bird brain is after watching this video.

Atsme 💬 📧 21:52, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

About the crow learning to use the lever, an experimental flaw that stood out to me is that the lever was marked by the blue tape in a way that said "look here". It wouldn't take too much for the crow to try yanking on the conspicuously labeled thing. But anyway, I think it's reasonable to think that there is a continuum in how other species of animals think. The old view that only humans think and all other species are automatons is pretty unreasonable. But it's quite reasonable that a cow would have a more complex mental life than a clam, but less complex than a human. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:44, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Agree - humans are the apex of intelligent life (as we know it) and as predators. The crow was in a controlled environment but I have seen other studies with crows figuring out problems. Oh, and speaking of clams, I actually have footage in my archives that will tantalize the imagination about clam behavior. I was contracted to do a public awareness program about zebra mussels, and boy was I surprised to learn about the complexities of freshwater mussels but not in a warm & fuzzy way. While on the subject of rating the complexities of mental life, I know of someone who finds entertainment value watching aquarium fish swim about. How complex is that? Better yet, I know many people who are entertained by editing WP.

Atsme 💬 📧 23:51, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

People who like to watch aquarium fish? And who think that editing WP is anything other than pure torture? What assholes! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

There's no accounting for taste, it seems. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

The editing of Wikipedia should have objectivity uppermost in mind. We are choosing our words, which are one set of words among many possible sets of words—in that sense we can never be objective. Bus stop (talk) 21:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Meh, I probably wouldn't go so far as to say "pure" torture, Tryp, although there were times it came close. I'm a little undecided about the "assholes" part, although there have been times when I wondered about myself...and then out of the blue, a WikiFriend will drop in and share a bit of kindness, or a few words of wisdom. There are also times when you, Martinevans123, MONGO, Ritchie333, EEng, or Levivich will stop by and say or do something hilarious...and you know what? Those are the things that help make being an editor here worth overcoming some of the obstacles. I accept that people are different, and actually appreciate that they are - variety is the spice of life. I'm not saying livestock or animals - domestic or in the wild - are on the same plain as humans by any means but they, too, have expectations, limits, and needs. One can learn alot by venturing onto the same playing field with them - a walk in their shoes style of interaction - maybe even in some rare instances live, eat, and sleep with them to form that unbreakable bond of acceptance and trust. When I was training dogs and we bonded, a facial expression or hand movement was all it took for them to respond. My mini-Schnauzer had his own talent agent, and worked for Sergeants performing at different conference exhibits, but he also modeled for the Trifles catalogue and various doggie products. My potbelly pig required a bit more instruction because she was more of a free-thinker but she loved to perform, and was actually in a short film but think I've mentioned that before. Look at the amazing work of Jane Goodall and her research. BTW, I enjoy watching aquarium fish, but for me, the ocean is my aquarium. I went scuba diving in the shark tank at the Tennessee Aquarium, and in the big tank at the Aquarium of the Americas in New Orleans. I don't advise you to try it in your aquarium...but if you do, please shoot some video of it.

Atsme 💬 📧 21:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

The credits say "Schnapps" is played by "Mz Piggie". Bus stop (talk) 23:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Fast forward up to about 18:22, and my little piggy will be making her grand entrance. I'm off-camera, but close enough to the table that piggy can see me. She grunted on queue - hillarious! The scenes with her running down the sidewalk were shot in Fort Worth. One person held her at one end, I was at the other end ready to call her to me as soon as she was released. As expected, she ran right to me. It was a crazy little film. Jarrod who was the cinematographer for Muu Muu, also worked on my production, Sturgeon:Ancient Survivors, which was a year and a half in the making. He shot the NY City scenes during the annual North American Sturgeon Conference where Bill Murray showed up as a surprise guest speaker. Fun times but lots of work, and no glamor. Atsme 💬 📧 00:08, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I think this is great. I didn't know about the sturgeon fish. I still have only watched about 3/4 of it. But it is beautiful. Congratulations on your part in bringing it into existence, and congratulations on founding Earthwave Society—that seems like a great accomplishment to me. Bus stop (talk) 17:04, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

And a "Happy Burns Night" (for yesterday) to you too!.
Puddin-race123 (talk) 17:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Does that mean all the food is burnt? Bus stop (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Of course.... lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:35, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Ha! Martin, when I saw the name "Burns" the first thing that came to my mind was Ken Burns and his ...11-hour The Civil War, 1990, which All Media Guide says "many consider his 'chef d'oeuvre'"). Bon apetite because Ken's program introduced the Ken Burns effect which was a blessing to the industry!! It comes packaged with iMovie - kudos to Ken!! BTW - my Scottish WikiFriends are among my favs, including Gareth Griffith-Jones who tops the list - and Martin, if you're also of Scottish descent, you take 1st place for humor!! Atsme 💬 📧 18:22, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

My twisted allusion here was of course to wee Nicola. But then I saw the "centre fold spread" picture of Trypto below and started to think about Ald Rabbie's pudding. No Scots in my family tree, just Welsh; never mind, we're all pals. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:32, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Speaking of Scottish, I found this interesting. (Stirling is in Scotland.) Bus stop (talk) 18:36, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

Aww, you just wanna see me in a swimsuit! (Which you would most certainly end up regretting!) So your dog has a talent agent, and I don't. For that matter, your dog has talent, and I don't. But seriously... I'm probably a case study for what you said about how wiki-friends can make wiki-obstacles more tolerable. Since my retirement-yet-not-retirement-from-editing-whatever-that-means^TM, I think it's been pretty obvious that most of my "editing" has been on friendly talk pages. No doubt, some people in my "fan club" would point to that as an indication of something objectionable about me, but... screw them. If anything is getting me to, ever so slowly, ever so tentatively, stick my toe (I mean, fin) back into content editing, it's been the way that the nicer people around here cheer me up. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:17, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

We tend to have anthropocentric views. I don't know if such views are correct or not. Facial expressions may convey more in humans than in animals. The film is also just a falsehood. I don't believe the image of the cow with a wide-eyed expression of awe really followed the birth of the baby cow—it was only made to look that way through contrived editing of the film. And I think most cows walk in the direction in which they are compelled by humans to walk. But the footage of the film shows only the rare instance in which one cow decided to turn around and walk in the opposite direction. The impression a viewer get is that this is fairly common behavior when in reality it may be fairly rare behavior. Film editing can make things appear in ways that don't match reality. Bus stop (talk) 22:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

And that reasoning is from, what...a textbook or 40-50 years of RL experiences? Come spend a couple of months at my ranch and we'll see if you feel the same. Having said that, I will add that there are limits, and there are splashes in my past work that reflects some of those limits (relative to instincts, intellectual capacity and learned behaviors), but there are intrinsic values and hands-on interactions in a natural environment that are rarely considered when restricted to a laboratory environment (just noticed the root word being "labor"). Consider it food for thought. Atsme 💬 📧 22:53, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

My reasoning is simply that the video is both art and science. That filmic depiction is in part fact and in part fiction. A documentary, which is the factual conveying of information on a topic, inevitably has a degree of fiction built in, because the editing is selective. If the filmmakers distill 100 hours of footage into 15 minutes, that selective editing constitutes an element of fiction. Bus stop (talk) 23:47, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

No, no, no, no - not fiction - "dramatic license".

It's a brilliant piece, nonetheless. Thank you for sharing it. Atsme 💬 📧 23:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

So... this thread started with a lovely video provided by Bus stop, and just look what it has come to. Oh, how we have fallen! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

"Oh, how we have fallen!" Well, Rise Up! ~ Andra Day:

And I'll rise up
I'll rise like the day
I'll rise up
I'll rise unafraid
I'll rise up
And I'll do it a thousand times again
And I'll rise up
High like the waves
I'll rise up
In spite of the ache
I'll rise up
And I'll do it a thousand times again

It's just that simple! Atsme 💬 📧 22:28, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

"Comfort Eagle", yo. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:29, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

(Meaning the title track, not the album, but still not very meaningful.) InedibleHulk (talk) 05:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Pssssst, I copped your phrase "waste time well" in your revert summary.

Atsme 💬 📧 12:53, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

All good, 'tis the season for cultural appropriation, I think. The past few days, a love goat has been all over ITN/C, taking a rambling man's ancient catchphrases and making them its own. I see you're having far more or less serious problems with PP, sounds rough, make like Triumph (the Canadian rockers, not the insult dog) and fight the good fight every day! Rhetorically, of course. And if you must sacrifice a lamb, don't let it know, fear lives on in the meat ("fouls the flavor", some say). InedibleHulk (talk) 01:42, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Is it just my imagination or is Wikipedia tantamount to a ragtag crew of biased psychopaths? Bus stop (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It's not your imagination. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Just curious...are there different languages for speaking rhetorically? I'm still trying to figure out what ITN/C means, (I suck at deciphering acronyms) so before this strays any further in the direction of psychoanalysis, I'll take advantage of a mot juste used occasionally by EEng in similar situations - *YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN! Atsme 💬 📧 19:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

ITN must be In The News. Bus stop (talk) 20:51, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

C is for "Candidates", the goat stole "satis"/"good to go" and not all trespassing psychopaths are looking for trouble (I got lost, your lawn seemed cozy and unfenced, just don't shoot and we'll part amicably again!). InedibleHulk (talk) 22:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

My lawn is cozy, & the yard unfenced - you are welcome to come play in my yard at any time, InedibleHulk. Just don't trust me to know all the acronyms. Atsme 💬 📧 02:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I am not allowed to talk about that subject. Rest assured that I could say oodles about that subject even though I don't know anything about it. I'm not even thinking that which I'm thinking. My mind is blank. I forgot what I was about to say when I started this sentence. In my mindlessness I'm simply completing this sentence in order to say nothing, which is my normal methodology when addressing weighty issues. Bus stop (talk) 01:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Clarifying...^{If it were up to me,} You can say anything you want, Bus stop, and I don't doubt for one minute that you can carry on like some of the world's most celebrated orators about any topic you so desire. It's just that we've got a backlog at NPP/AfC, and "ragtag crew of biased psychopaths" doesn't show any signs that it will be a short and sweet discussion. 😂 Happy editing!! Atsme 💬 📧 02:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC) ^{Clarified 19:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)}

I read between the lines Atsme therefore no need for clarification. The murky waters of my brain may be unable to cope with normal misunderstanding but I have implanted Google's new technology to cope with this. Ben Carson did this procedure for me and I am greatly appreciative to him for performing the surgery. Bus stop (talk) 20:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

There exists the possibility that a neutral point of view can emerge from the opposing views held by the individual components of the ragtag crew of biased psychopaths but the jury remains out on that possibility. Bus stop (talk) 02:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear Betty,
Of course I am thrilled to read that I top your list of Scots, but the only part of me that is Scottish is the porridge oats I had for breakfast this morning. Like my Wiki chum Martin, I am a 100% Taffy. All the best!
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 09:57, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

p.s. I have to admit to occasionally wearing Argyle socks. Jock McTavish123 (talk) 10:11 28 January 2021 (UTC)

My apologies and a heartfelt thankyou to my Caribbean squid "admirer in Cymru". Silly me, Gareth, it appears that I may have associated you with "Outlander", perhaps because one of our prior discussions took place during that particular Netflix marathon. Rest assured, the correction is now indelibly marked in my memory. Atsme 💬 📧 15:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Ha, ha! Thank you, dear friend, you are such good fun.
All is well with me, as I trust it is with you.
Getting my COVID-19 jab tomorrow.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 14:34, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

You're on the road to being able to live life again!! Yay!! Atsme 💬 📧 16:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe, like Sir Tom, you'll become "bulletproof"?! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Holy moly, Martin!! You had to dig deep in the archives to find that picture of me. BTW, I no longer use that pipe. It's all about keeping up with the times, aka staying on the cutting edge. Here's an image of my new smokeless pipe —> |. I use it often and wear it well. Do you think it makes my text look big? Atsme 💬 📧 19:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

"PMSL" (as they say in Pontarddulais). A wiki pun if ever I saw one! But don't you worry.... not too big. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Notice of idea theft

I came here to remind you that I stole your idea of a "aware of all DS's" notice", so now half of my user page is a list of DS topic areas I am aware of. JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 23:19, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Too funny!! My awareness notice is triggered to download the current DS log, so when an editor posts a DS notice on my page, they get the entire list. You little bandit! Enjoy!! Personally, I look at the article TP for any applicable DS alerts, and I pay attention to the notice at the top of the page when in edit mode. If an editor would simply follow common sense protocols, there would be no need for DS/AE awareness or alerts. Hang in there, JJP! Don't wear yourself out dodging bullets, and remember, there's no deadline! Happy editing! Atsme 💬 📧 00:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

friendly reminder

Hey Atsme! I know your time is valuable and scarce, about a week back you mentioned on the Turning Point USA talk page you would take a look at that leadership section in the article. I'd genuinely like to know your thoughts on the section, I think the points brought up in the talk page section discussion bring up quite some good points. As always Happy editing! You continue to inspire new wikipedians such as myself! Eruditess (talk) 07:18, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Awww, thank you, Eruditess. I promise to take a look at it today. Keep on keeping on, my WikiFriend. Atsme 💬 📧 11:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

NPP training/Archive 1

I'm not sure what happened here, but NPP training/Archive 1 definitely shouldn't be in article space... Do you want it moving somewhere else or deleting? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Yikes! My apologies, Mike. I suck at setting up archives, so any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. I thought that first mistake was deleted and that everything was now in user space: User talk:Atsme/NPP training. I was trying to get it set-up under the one-click archiver script, so if you can help with that, I'll owe you one. Atsme 💬 📧 13:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It looks like everything's set up OK now, with this edit by RexxS fixing the problem. I've deleted the stray page as I see the contents are at User talk:Atsme/NPP training/Archive 1. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:04, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Mike. Both you and RexxS deserve a raise commensurate with your experience, skills, and above all your patience in dealing with CSS/js/html illiterate editors like me. Silicon Valley keeps moving the goal post, not to mention that my aim doesn't always score a bullseye. Atsme 💬 📧 14:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Notice

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Due to past disruption in this topic area, the community has enacted a more stringent set of rules. Any administrator may impose sanctions—such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks—on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on these sanctions. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Alexbrn (talk) 20:34, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Phew ... a "notice" that is without any content.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 14:16, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Does this mean you can now jump the queue and get a COVID-19 vaccination before most others?? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Does this mean that you can add raisons to Welsh cakes? Bus stop (talk) 14:58, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

😂 Boring procedure, but it makes me wonder how it got past my DS Awareness filter. I think maybe it has to do with GS vs DS but it is definitely BS as I struggle to help a few editors understand the definition of "misinformation and disinformation", and that TCM is considered by many to be pseudoscience and pushing it as a treatment for COVID to an unaware public may very well be considered "disinformation" when it's done in an attempt to downplay the onset of the virus in order to save face. I think the deathtoll speaks volumes about the efficacy of a treatment, don't you? As for the vaccine - I'm thinking COVID-19 is more frightened of me than I am of it.^[hyperbole] As of today, we have 12 active cases on Bonaire (population 25k+/-), 3 hospitalized, 3 deaths since March 2020. Perhaps sunshine, warm weather, a steady tropical breeze & the energy from the ocean are what comprise the best treatment.^[stretch] I will add that the Bonairean government took early action at the onset in March 2020, which was obviously very effective. (I don't think they should have shutdown the casinos that quickly but...oh well.) I think the Dutch government coupled with the Bonarian government may be onto something in that each "population" has specific needs and ways to combat the virus that are unique to their respective situations rather than going all-out with a global approach...if that makes any sense. Atsme 💬 📧 15:24, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it got past your filter because it's DS established by community consensus, instead of by ArbCom (first time I've seen that, but that probably just means I missed it before). About what Gareth Griffith-Jones said, the idea is that it would be unfair to penalize someone for violating DS if they didn't know about DS. Unfortunately, no one has thought of a better mousetrap to accomplish that. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:42, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

We're all insanely jealous. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I have entertained the possibility of having a WikiCon here hosted by the Caribbean WikiGroup. Imagine the fun edithons, learning about the historic culture here, the geology, and how well some of the islands have preserved their natural resources with proper management and expeditious handling of environmental & conservation concerns. Don't you think that's a plan worth considering? Atsme 💬 📧 16:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Yee-ha! I'm already printing my fake "COVID-19 free" certificate off eBay!! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:17, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

One, two, three ... it's as easy as ABC. Martinevans123 Wait for me!
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 18:07, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Sing it loud, Gareth! 😂 Atsme 💬 📧 20:03, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I am! Now it will be returning and returning ...
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 20:27, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Atsme—Ben Shapiro refers to a "subtle linguistic shift" between "misinformation and disinformation" (about 5 minutes into the video). I'm not sure how "subtle" it is. Maybe "subtle" means "blatant" in an as yet unpublished dictionary. Bus stop (talk) 19:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I once heard a man about town refer to that kid as "bad news". A less credible source warns he may also lay eggs if allowed into the ear. As your distant cousin, just be careful with wherever you're intending to take that point. Maybe bring a grain or two of salt along. Y'know...for protection. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:00, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

The laying of eggs in ears sounds insectivorous. Bus stop (talk) 08:21, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

As it should; my source was that poor bastard from "The Caterpillar". InedibleHulk (talk) 08:48, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

I should say the laying of eggs in ears sounds like something insects would do, because "insectivorous" means feeding on insects. Ants on a log might have some relevance. Bus stop (talk) 01:35, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Part of me wanted to correct you, part of me said "Let him go, Ralph." Glad you knew what you were doing. On that note, let me be clear; a caterpillar is not an earwig is not a leech. None are "bugs", none are out to get us and all have roamed the Earth for far longer than we have or ever will. Shaking salt on a bird's tail does nothing, toads don't build toadstools and the lowly salamander can in fact burn. Ask Jordan Peterson, ask Alan Watts, ask Francis of Assisi! They'll tell you what "they" don't want you to know! Anyway, I'm off to celebrate my 15 years of service to this human knowledge cluster by crawling under a nice warm rock and mingling with mycelia again. Back when the ice melts, when the floods rage and the green grass grows all around (all around)! InedibleHulk (talk) 05:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

You can't be sure of the "ever will" part, as in "far longer than we have or ever will". Our time on this mortally wounded coiled snake may be limited or limitless. I think I hear the jury coming back in. Hark—let us listen. They will render their verdict. Will the life that has succored me abandon me in my time of need? Why don't they install new doors in this old creaky courthouse? Bus stop (talk) 16:30, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah, yes The Doors!
🌯🫔🌮🦟Atsme 💬 📧 16:49, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Don't listen to that jury, the members who aren't intimidated haven't been paying attention. Listen to Woods of Ypres again, particularly "Keeper of the Ledger", it explains what you mistake for abandonment. Human evolution lets us ponder our pathetically recent lower limit, still wet behind our ears. Since only some ice has melted in my world, and there are no floods or green grass, I'm artificially limited to letting you tackle those doors on your own (but take it from Ram-Man, kid, don't use your head!). InedibleHulk (talk) 09:03, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, The Doors, they knew one ~~or two~~ things about insects, didn't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

OMG, I have a new favorite song!!😂😂😂🦟🦟 Atsme 💬 📧 13:39, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Martin. Once the "singing" stops, the instrumental is terrific and continues on and on ...
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it's more like an extended Ray Manzarek / Robby Krieger jam session! I guess that's what happens when the lead singer dies. The single version is a more modest 2:50. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I am hearing angels. They are saying edit, edit, edit... Bus stop (talk) 19:14, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I am hearing Jim. He is saying go back to sleep.... Martinevans123 (talk) 19:22, 6 February 2021 (UTC)