Talk:Siegfried Palm

A fact from Siegfried Palm appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 September 2009 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that 20th-century composers including Kagel, Ligeti, and Xenakis wrote music for cellist Siegfried Palm?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/September.

Wikipedia

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Siegfried Palm be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Translation from German

Going to write on Siegfried Palm using the German page and then adapting it--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I made some changes, modifying the categories (and added some) so this page doesn't actually appear in those categories — this has to be changed back once the article has been moved into the main space. The rest were mainly formatting and linking issues. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The following articles already link to Palm: Cello, Double Concerto (Brahms), Deutsche Oper Berlin, Hochschule für Musik Köln, Enrico Mainardi. I'm now going to compile a list of articles where he is mentioned but not yet linked. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a list of articles which mention Siegfried Palm but do not have a link to the (not yet existing) article. Most of these have, as you know, a link to the German Wikipedia article (marked *), which should be replaced once his article goes into the main space.

I'll leave it up to you to find further articles, if any, which might warrant mentionig him. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:59, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for most valuable improvements and research! I'm learning. Would you recommend to change the "German" links first? - New field: German Wiki is lacking Melos Ensemble of London - but I feel the English article is not ready to be "copied", - and certainly much better than nothing.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest to move the article into the main space first, then add/modify the links to it in one hit. In my opinion, the article is ready for such a move.

You are probably the best equipped person to translate the Melos article into German. However, there doesn't seem to be a great demand for such an article, as I couldn't find a single reference to "Melos Ensemble" in the German Wikipedia ("Melos Ensemble" site:de.wikipedia.org). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:23, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! also for de:WW! (Escamillo Carmen - es gibt nichts zu verlieren, smile.) Do you think I should move the page SP myself?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should (move the article). Just don't forget to remove the colons (":") from the categories, e.g.:

[[:Category:German classical cellists]] to [[Category:German classical cellists]]

Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

refs, DYK

work on citation in progress--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

progressed to DYK 15 September, 1:42 p.m. London

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Palm and Stockhausen

Transferred from User talk:Jerome Kohl on 15 December 2009:

You were observant to find that Stockhausen is not specifically cited in the list of music for Siegfried Palm. When I translated the German article (that comes without any citation, btw) I didn't find any, so just trusted the sources 2 ("un spécialiste de la musique moderne (créateur d’œuvres de Stockhausen, Bério, Pousseur et Bussotti)") and 4, the one you added to Weblinks. I rephrased the opening of the list to "premiered" rather than "written for" and wonder if music by Stockhausen fits that category (as source 2 suggests). The weblink you added is not needed, I think. If you want to keep it, at least the link should work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I came across this curious statement indirectly, while editing the article on Aloys and Alfons Kontarsky, which led me via a link to the English obituary claiming that Stockhausen composed a cello concerto. What the French article says does sound more likely, though what work by Stockhausen could have been premiered by Palm puzzles me. Stockhausen did not write much solo or chamber music featuring strings (other than the viola), and Palm was not involved in the premieres of the few exceptions I can think of (In Freundschaft version for cello, Amour version for cello, Orchester-Finalisten, the Helicopter String Quartet, or Hoffnung for string trio). There is an important cello solo in the orchestral work Trans—perhaps Palm played this part at the world premiere, though I doubt it. Of course, there are variable-scoring pieces such as Solo, Spiral, and the text pieces from Aus den sieben Tagen and Für kommende Zeiten. Palm did not premiere either Solo or Spiral, and had nothing to do with the first set of text pieces, but it may be that he participated in the premiere of something from the Für kommende Zeiten. It is also possible that Palm participated in one or both of the Darmstadt collective composition projects Ensemble and Musik für ein Haus, which are not works listed in Stockhausen's catalog, even though he had more to do with their shaping than any of the other contributing composers.

Oh, yes. Please feel free to delete the external link, which I added before noticing it was already embedded in a footnote.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your detailed explanation that I would like to see on the Siegfried Palm discussion page. The article will do without a dubious Stockhausen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:11, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some further information: Palm did not participate in the two Darmstadt collective-composition projects (Ensemble and Musik für ein Haus), but he was on the faculty of the second, third, and fourth Kölner Kurse für Neue Musik in 1964–65, 1965–66, and 1966–67, respectively, which were held at the Rheinische Musikhochschule under the artistic direction of Stockhausen (details are in Stockhausen's Texte zur Musik 3:196–211). No work by Stockhausen performed at these courses had a part for cello, though many works by other composers performed there did. On 29 October 1965, for example, Palm performed Webern's op. 11 and Earle Brown's Music for Cello and Piano together with Aloys Kontarsky, in a programme that also included Pousseur's Caractères 1a and 1b for piano, and Stockhausen's Mikrophonie I. I can find no evidence that Palm ever participated in the premiere of any Stockhausen work, though it is still possible that he did so for one or another of the text compositions from Für kommende Zeiten.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]