Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union

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RfC at WikiProject Sports

An RfC at WikiProject Sports is currently seeking a consensus on whether images of all venues in a tournament should be presented in a tournament article's § Venues section. Feel free to join in and share your thoughts! — AFC Vixen 🦊 15:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Hong Kong name

Yo, people. I think is about time we tackle this issue. (pun intended)

For those out of the loop, last year the Chinese government pressured different HK sports federations to add the word "China" to their names, or they would lose funding 1 2

The rugby union did follow the petition and changed their name from Hong Kong Rugby Union (HKRU) to Hong Kong China Rugby (HKCR). The new name can be seen not only on their official web page but also on other places like World Rugby rankings and match reports.

Some of us have started using the new name (when referring to their national teams, not the country itself), but there's always people changing it to "correct it". Most of the time I'm unable to tell apart those who do it in good faith and those who don't, and honestly, I don't wanna waste time in revert wars, so can we talk it as a group and decide what name to use?

ty PotatoNerd (talk) 18:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@PotatoNerd: Apologies for the late response, in my opinion, we should be following WP:COMMONNAME here (like we do for Czech Republic national football team) and just using Hong Kong. Even the SCMP seem to only use HKC as an official reference to the Hong Kong RFU but still use Hong Kong alone when referring to the team. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Change a re-direct to the main page

Andy Onyeama-Christie should be the "main page" rather than Andy Christie as he is going by his real name now. I don't know how to change a re-direct to the main page. If anyone knows can they do it? If not I'll find out how later and do it. Skeene88 (talk) 09:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

If you don't think it will be controversial to do so, put a {{db-move}} on Andy Onyeama-Christie and an admin will delete the redirect (and if you're lucky, will also move the page). Primefac (talk) 10:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Lineup changes

What do people think of notes such as the following:

• "Ox Nché (South Africa) was originally named to start at loosehead prop, but the Springboks coaches subsequently opted to rest him for the match, after announcing a revised starting line-up. He was replaced by Thomas du Toit, who shifted across from the tighthead position, which was, in turn, taken by Wilco Louw."

This is from 2024 end-of-year rugby union internationals. Notes like these occur regularly in other articles of rugby competitions.

I don't think they should be included. If a player is not in the matchday 23 squad, we really don't need to know why. This seems like WP:RECENTISM -- i.e., at the time the change is announced, it gets a news article and seems like a big deal, but several months after the competition, nobody cares that a lineup change was announced a day before a match. Curious to hear others' thoughts. CUA 27 (talk) 01:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I really hate them and think they have no place in an encyclopaedia. As you say it is classic recentism. Skeene88 (talk) 15:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Unless anyone objects, I may put something in the WP:RU style guide on this topic. CUA 27 (talk) 00:55, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Miami Women's Rugby Club

Can someone please find sources? Bearian (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how we grade rugby levels in the US but sadly if there's a struggle to find sources, and given there aren't any beyond external links in that article, I fear that it might not meet the standards of WP:N. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 21:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Stadium names discussion

I am noticing a lot of inconsistency with stadium names on many rugby seasons articles as to whether they use the stadium sponsored names or using the common names that the articles are under. So I would like to start a discussion here to determine whether we use the sponsored names or if we follow the unofficial rule that football articles do and only use sponsored names if the venue has never had a non-sponsored name. My personal opinion is that we should use the non-sponsored names of the stadium articles across rugby union articles for consistency but what do others think? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 17:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

My preference would be to use the WP:COMMONNAME for the stadium. This in Europe/Northern Hemisphere tends to be a non-sponsored name, whereas in the Southern Hemisphere tends to be a sponsored name (if there is one). In the past 5/10 seasons or so I don't think I've seen Lang Park used more than once of twice, with Suncorp Stadium being used almost exclusively and this seems to be a common theme in NZ/Aus/SA. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Rugbyfan22. From my experience, the USA also follows the NZ/Aus/SA pattern. The UK is 100% the opposite though. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 20:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I certainly do agree there are exceptions in the Southern Hemisphere and in the USA where some sponsor names are COMMONNAME. I'd say, in the Northern Hemisphere in the British Isles and Europe at least, the only stadium we should be using a sponsored name for is the Aviva Stadium as that has only borne that name since it was built. The reason I was asking to go for the COMMONNAME/non-sponsored route is simply to follow the unofficial guidance FOOTY does in trying to avoid product placement where we can on Wikipedia. (We already see the big arguments that go on about referencing Twickenham's sponsored name off-wiki for example). The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 16:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd suggest FOOTY use this way because football isn't particularly big (in comparison to European countries anyway) in NZ/AUS/SA/USA. If you were to look at A-League (Australia) or MLS (USA) articles I'd imagine all the stadium are listed as their sponsored names. I'd be in preference of being different from FOOTY for this reason and just use the WP:COMMONNAMES for the stadiums depending on competition (UK and Europe use non-sponsored with exceptions (Aviva, Swansea.com etc) and in the Southern Hemisphere comps such as Super Rugby, NPC the sponsored ones. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:29, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree. Its been becoming endemic on English rugby seasons for both men and women and it just doesn't look right at all. Do you think we need to formally put this on the MOS or on the project page? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd suggest we need more participation for formalisation (although engagement has been poor on the project recently). There have been others in separate discussions who may wish to offer a view. I'm guessing on English rugby seasons people are using the sponsored names which I'd suggest would be incorrect? Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:57, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, I'd suggest that for the URC (featuring SA teams) we should wholly use non-sponsored, rather than sponsored for the SA teams/stadia and non-sponsored for the other, just for consistency in the tournament. The Currie Cup should use sponsored stadia names. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you think we should go for a formal RFC @Rugbyfan22:? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 10:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure a formal RFC would be needed, just a bit more participation in this discussion here. This would just be local policy for this WikiProject so really just needs input from rugby union editors, rather than a full on RFC with wider WikiSports input which likely would differ from the consensus discussed so far. Perhaps notifying regular rugby editors on season/tournament pages in both European and Southern Hemisphere competitions. I know I have discussed this topic with @Ruggalicious: before (a regular NZ rugby editor) on similar changes he was seeing to tournament articles on the removal on sponsored names. Not sure if you've discussed with any editors on talk pages previously. Just need a few more opinions really before confirming local consensus. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 13:31, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Sponsored names should be standard practice for accuracy. Sponsored names should only be removed for World Cups per world rugby guidelines. There should not be one practice for uk and one practice for rest of world. Either go with or without sponsors, I support sticking with. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:01, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

How do you square that with WP:COMMONNAME? I highly doubt people are going to be regularly saying "Cinch _{(other used car retailers are available)} Stadium at Franklin's Gardens" and they certainly are never going to be renaming the Twickenham article to name it after Allianz. As has been pointed out above, the sitation is different between the British Isles and Europe with the Southern Hemisphere and US. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 10:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

As much as I know it will cause consternation amongst other sports and some MOS diehards, I think we have to go with the common names used by these stadiums; I'd never heard of Barnet Copthall until clicking on a StoneX Stadium redirect, and Sydney Football Stadium (2022) is just a rather clunky way to talk about Allianz Stadium (and "cinch Stadium at Franklin's Gardens" is a dumb name and rightfully not the article title). The only issue with this might be multi-purpose facilities, though, in particular pitches that are used for both footy and rugby. Primefac (talk) 13:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @Rugbyfan22: and others that WP:COMMONNAMES should be used and in the SH and USA that's the sponsored name (if there is one). There's another good reason for it that I haven't seen mentioned yet: verifiability. In the AUS/NZ/SA/USA, you'll find the sponsored names in sources like competition draws and match announcements, match reports and other publications about games and tournaments, usually not the unsponsored name. Rugbyfan22 already mentioned Lang Park. Another example is Lancaster Park. Very few – especially younger – rugby fans will even know where Rugby League Park is; in previous years all sources mentioned "AMI Stadium", then "Orangetheory Stadium" and currently they refer to the same stadium in Christchurch as "Apollo Projects Stadium". Wellington Regional Stadium is also much better known as "Sky Stadium"" and previously as "Westpac Stadium". I'd prefer using the name that's in common use during the season.

If unsponsored names are the WP:COMMONNAMES in Europe, obviously unsponsored names should be used. However, if one stadium changes its name to a sponsored name and that name becomes commonly used and appears in sources about matches, a competition or tournaments, then I think for that stadium the sponsored name should be used. This shouldn't be a cause for confusion. The stadium name in an article should link to the article about that stadium via a piped link, e.g. [[Twickenham Stadium|Allianz Stadium]]. Ideally (in my view), the article keeps the unsponsored name in its title, but should explain clearly that the sponsored name is currently in use where that's the case. Changes in naming rights should also be included. Ruggalicious (talk) 01:23, 26 December 2024 (UTC)