Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Archive 10

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Archive 10

Comedian removals

A few months ago, I did a cleanup/purge of television hosts, which was bloated in favor of Americans, Brits and Australians. Now I must do the same with comedians. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Eliminate film/TV/standup distinction

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There are just too many artists who transcend those distinctions for them to be meaningful. Examples:

• Bob Newhart is listed under standup even though he had several television shows
• Chevy Chase, Chris Rock and Will Ferrell (and others) are listed under films even though they were also SNL cast members
• Rodney Dangerfield is listed under films despite having a long standup career

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Support, it's arbitrary and doesn't exist on Level 4. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Does feel rather arbitrary Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose mainly because a section with 203 articles is large and unwieldy and generally inaccessible to editors and casual readers alike. This same problem exists in the music section (many of the artists listed under Rock such as The Beatles  3 also have Pop specified as a genre and vice versa, many of the artists listed under Hip Hop/Rap can be listed either under Pop or R&B such as Drake who has all 3 listed as genres etc.) but I think people don't mind those subdivisions because the alternative would be a massive blob. The same problem on a smaller scale happens here. That being said, I do think the classification was done poorly e.g. I would put Rodney Dangerfield in the standup category. However, I find 80% of these classifications accurate as to the main cause of their vitality. We make judgment calls everywhere else on VA5, I don't see why we can't here. Aurangzebra (talk) 09:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

   1. 203 comedians at VA5 is way too many; right size would be about half that
   2. There are other ways to organize comedians other than standup/TV/movies, such as by nationality or time period.

   _pbp 14:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• This got four supporting votes, so it's going to pass. What should follow? Maybe we should decide on some new categorisation? We shouldn't lump them all together, like Aurangzebra said. I'll suggest regions like in the film actors section: Africa, Americas (with US/Canada separated from Latin America), Asia, Europe and Oceania. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  I support grouping by region. I can make the change in the coming days. _pbp 15:16, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Carrot Top

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IDK if this guy was ever an A-lister _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. nom. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose, he has a lot more interwikis than anyone else on this list and anecdotally he's the only one I've heard of. Kevinishere15 (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per kevinishere. Internationally known as evidenced by interwikis and was a frequent reference in a bunch of TV shows and movies for his distinct look and brand of comedy. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Irwin Corey

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? Due to being blacklisted, he was in obscurity. < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Doesn't seem to have left a lasting impact Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. I question how some of these people even made it on to the list. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
7. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Ken Dodd

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Alan King

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Max Miller (comedian)

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 10 interwikis. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Seems to have been pretty important for his time Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. "considered to be one of the greatest stand-up comedians of his generation", reduces US bias Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per above Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Nichols and May

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Mike Nichols and Elaine May are both already listed (Nichols as a director, May as a comedian). The comedy pairing has TWO interwikis. May has 31, Nichols has 55. This is one of the instances where the individuals are more notable than the pairing. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Probably redundant Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Patrice O'Neal

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 15 interwikis. Only released a single album _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Surprisingly do know this guy because he was one of the warehouse guys on The Office but definitely not vital. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Roy Rene

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Just two interwikis. TWO. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Only really relevant in Australia Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Not sure how we are doing on Australian comedy representation but this is probably not the right person for it regardless Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Mort Sahl

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Jerry Van Dyke

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Primarily had supporting roles _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove George Wallace (Australian comedian)

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Just two interwikis. TWO. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Also note that pageviews are very low Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Henny Youngman

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"Take my wife, please" might be VA5 but he himself...IDK. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. One-liner comedy has definitely not stood the test of time. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Will Hay

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Only a little over 3000 page views Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 23:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Fred Allen

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If we're removing Chevy Chase, IDK how he survives. 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Arthur Askey

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Imogene Coca

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< 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Tommy Cooper

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20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Lasting (and current) influence, as seen under "legacy and honours" Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per above, reduces US bias Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Charles Correll

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Amos 'n' Andy is VA5 but IDK if he is. < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Freeman Gosden

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Amos 'n' Andy is VA5 but IDK if he is. < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dashan

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< 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Seems important re: Chinese comedy Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per above, pioneer of stand-up in China Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Bob Crane

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20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Fry and Laurie

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Fry and Laurie are themselves listed. The pairing only has 2 interwikis, and Laurie especially is known for independent work rather than the pairiing. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Redundant Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Rich Little

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10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dick Martin

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Not independently notable of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, already at VA5 _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dan Rowan

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Not independently notable of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, already at VA5 _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Garry McDonald

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< 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Morecambe and Wise

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Just three interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Highly influential in the UK, and by the looks of it the low number of interwikis is due to many Wikipedias having articles on them as individuals instead: Eric Morecambe and Ernie Wise both have more, and I don't think they would be individually vital on their own Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

   Wise has 10 interwikis and Morecambe 16, neither of which is much for a celeb _pbp 20:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

2. per above, "the best loved British double-act" Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Freddie Prinze

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<20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Michael Richards

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Mostly known as a supporting actor. His most famous appearances were on Seinfeld, which is VA5, as are Jerry Seinfeld and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. weak support Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Harry Secombe

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10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Danny Thomas

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Exactly 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Victoria Wood

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<20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Add Agnez Mo  5

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I know we have been on a remove celebrities streak recently (which I am fine with), but we can make room for Mo, who is arguably the biggest pop star in the world's fourth-largest country. See, for example, List of awards and nominations received by Agnez Mo

Support

1. As nom. To non English language musicians. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense Iostn (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Maureen Dowd

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NYT columnist. Seems to be best known for covering the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, but the article does not mention her. 6 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
2. That is a good point. Sahaib (talk) 07:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Matt Drudge Makkool (talk) 18:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Support, Writers & Journalists is over quota and we should probably prioritize recent figures. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
6. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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