Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Archive 7

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:Route diagram template. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Archive 5

Just another trick for the BS row templates (no new parameter involved)

I used a trick in my RDT in Chinese WP to display the Chinese (tentative) translation for a Russian RDT with a tidier formate to display. In the older version I placed the original Russian text in the note 2 case so that they are still aligned to right side rather than following the main text （which is occupied by the Chinese translation） in note 1 so they wouldn't align to either side. But it only makes sense if the language is Arabic or sth like that which is written from right to left.

In order to make all of the Russian texts align to left tidily, just close the BS table row template and add 2 more vertical bar || before them. Now you got the idea, it literally adds more column cell, thx to that the "table row separater" |- is written before rather than after the syntax of row. Perhaps the original German creator of the template has already predicted that! zh:Template:索契輕級捷運RDT

I know that SilasW is doing a proofreading for the project page. If you don't find this idea too trivial, you may add this information to the hint section, only if you got the time and mood to do so. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 13:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

{|{{Railway line header|collapsible=no}}
{{BS-header|Normally}}
{{BS-table|0}}
{{BS|KBHFa||Head terminus||头站}}
{{BS|BHF||Station||中途站}}
{{BS|KBHFe||End terminus||终点站}}
|}
|-
{{BS-header|The trick}}
{{BS-table|0}}
{{BS|KBHFa||Head terminus|{{pad|5px}}}}||头站
{{BS|BHF||Station}}||中途站
{{BS|KBHFe||End terminus}}||终点站
|}
|-
{{BS-header|Trick #2}}
{{BS-table|0}}
{{BS|KBHFa||Head terminus{{pad|2px}}{{!}}{{!}}头站|note1|note2}}
{{BS|BHF||Station{{!}}{{!}}中途站|note1|note2}}
{{BS|KBHFe||End terminus{{!}}{{!}}终点站|note1|note2}}
|}
|}

Caption display of the Icon

{{BS-map|map=
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||full|O1=uSTR|O12=BHF|O13=STRq|O14=BOOT|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||miss5|O1=uSTR|O12=BHF|O13=STRq|O14=BOOT|O15=}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||miss4|O1=uSTR|O12=BHF|O13=STRq|O14=|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||miss3|O1=uSTR|O12=BHF|O13=|O14=BOOT|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||miss2|O1=uSTR|O12=|O13=STRq|O14=BOOT|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||miss1|O1=|O12=BHF|O13=STRq|O14=BOOT|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||missbase|O1=uSTR|O12=BHF|O13=STRq|O14=BOOT|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||5|O15=FLUG}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||4|O14=BOOT}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||3|O13=STRq}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||2|O12=BHF}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|||1|O1=uSTR}}
{{User:Sameboat/BS|STR||base}}
}}

I know the absense of the icon ID displayed in the mouse over image pop-up tooltip box upset some of the editor. But now I've tested the caption entry which acts as the title attribute to display pop-up tooltip. The change needs to be made to the protected {{BS-overlap}} and only works on IE8, Firefox and other newer browsers which render the alt and title attributes correctly. (In IE7 and older versions the pop-up box will display the alt text instead.) Please express your opinion here or in the template talk:BS-overlap. If there's no response for 1 week I will directly request for {{editprotected}}. Thx -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Template too wide

I've updated Template:Vermonter for Amtrak's Vermonter as a re-routing and new stations has been approved. The re-routing will be between Springfield, MA and Brattleboro, VT.

The problem is, for some reason my revision has unnecessarily widened the template. On the pre-revised version, there is very little space between the track line and the stations distance mileages. Now there is a lot of space between the two and there doesn't need to be. I don't know how I caused this. Here is the diff. Can somebody please fix this? Thank you.--Oakshade (talk) 22:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It's because you used BS3 when the rest was BS1 - it's effectively got a blank column on the right hand side. Change it all to BS2 and it will be fine. -mattbuck (Talk) 23:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Change every one or just all the ones I added for the branch?--Oakshade (talk) 01:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

You'd need to change them all, otherwise you'll end up with the BS1s not lining up with BS2s. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

lol. Well I tried that and ended up with this. I'm going to leave it for now as it's not terrible. I actually want to make the "planned branch" track aligned on the main line and move the currently used line to the right as a branch, as that's what the routing currently is; a detour. --Oakshade (talk) 03:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

My own preference is to make the whole route diagram a fixed width which copes with the maximum width actually required (blanks 'cost' nothing and it is easier to follow for other editors imho) but otherwise you need to have BS-widths either all-odd or all-even for them to easily align, this widening from a BS1 should go to either BS3, BS5, or BS7. --AlisonW (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Broken Maps? Urgent attention required

Just noticed a problem on Disused railway stations (Newton Abbot to Kingswear Line), where a perfectly good map has been damaged by the deletion of some icons. The user is now seeing a couple of error icons in place of stations. I know there has been considerable churn regarding icon names over recent months, but this shows a lack of care at applying due process -- icon name or graphic changes should never damage live maps as you never know when a user will access them. How come it wasn't noticed that these icons were still in use before the graphic content of the icon files was deleted?

Actually, the situation is much MUCH more serious: two different icons are present on the map I mentioned, but tracking down 'what links here' for the redirected icon suggests there could be 150-200 maps with the same problem! Worse still, what links here for the other icon reports just over five hundred linked pages

This needs urgent attention! -- EdJogg (talk) 23:15, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, even worse [1] =v= -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 00:06, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I've just come across this problem at Template:Welsh Highland Heritage Railway, which seems to need exKBFa and exKBFe icons. I can't work out which icons replace these. If someone can, please can they either restore the icons until all uses have been fixed, or replace all the uses with the correct ones - I haven't got a clue how to start doing either! Thryduulf (talk) 21:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Just change all the KBF to KBHF to fix it. Previously Axpde would handle the rest of the ID replacement, but this time he changed the icon file before changing ID from all of the maps... -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The old KBF-icons have been deleted long time ago and left as redirects. Those redirects should have been replaced to reduce server load, but due to the fact that they are used within {{BS}}-templates commons delinker wasn't able to do this. 'til end of last year we were able to reduce the usage to several hundred occurances in german and english wikipedia, but in the last three months usage has grown dramatically again! The only way to stop this, was to replace the link to show everyone the places, where icon IDs have to be replaced. This way it's not up to just very few users doing all replacements! As sameboat said before, just insert the capital "H" and all will be fine! Thanks axp_de ^Hello! 11:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, but given the scale of the problem, surely this is a task for a bot? -- EdJogg (talk) 12:58, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

As said before, he commons delinker already failed to exchange those occurances used with {{BS}} because he scans for BSicon KBFa.svg, but in {{BS}} it says |KBFa| ... if you know a bot who can substitute this by |KBHFa| I'd be glad to hear about it! axp_de ^Hello! 16:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Replacement

Noone is forced to participate, but just in case you come across please substitute the following codes:

|KBFa| → |KBHFa|
|KBFe| → |KBHFe|
|exKBFa| → |exKBHFa|
|exKBFe| → |exKBHFe|

(i.e. just adding the "H" as in BHF, BHFq, KBHFr, KBHFl, etc.)

|KDSa| → |KDSTa|
|KDSe| → |KDSTe|

(i.e. just adding the "T" as in DST, DSTq, KDSTr, KDSTl, etc.)

Thank you! axp_de ^Hello! 16:42, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I've made a bot request at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 35#Parameter replacement in BS templates. It would be useful if someone who understands these templates better than me could check I've got everything right! Thryduulf (talk) 22:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm working on this now with AWB. It shouldn't take too long, even given that each edit needs to be manually reviewed. --Darkwind (talk) 02:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Done - 4200+ pages scanned, 194 edits made. Let me know if I missed any. Also, I repaired uSTRu and uSTRd, which are now uSTRf and uSTRg. --Darkwind (talk) 06:49, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Updating (editprotected) template:BSpx

{{BS-map|map=
{{BS2|BHF|dSTR||<nowiki>{{BS2|BHF|dSTR|PX2=10px}}</nowiki>|PX2=10px}}
{{BS2|STR|dKRZu||<nowiki>{{BS2|STR|dKRZu|PX=20px}}</nowiki>|PX=20px}}
{{BS3|d|dKRZo|BHF||<nowiki>{{BS3||dKRZo|BHF|PX=10px|PX2=10px|PX3=20px}}</nowiki>|PX=10px|PX2=10px|PX3=20px}}
{{BS4|d|dKRZu|d|dKRZu||<nowiki>{{BS3|d|dKRZu|d|dKRZu|PX=5px|PX2=10px|PX4=20px}}</nowiki>|PX=5px|PX2=10px|PX4=20px}}
}}

Done

I need to collect the thought for updating the default size of BSicon in the map from the current 20px wide to x20px, i.e. 20px high. This is because some editor is starting to use the narrow/half-wide/1:2 icons, the "d" set, e.g. (dSTR) and (dBHF). If we don't make such change, the editor will need to apply the PX parameters of BS row template messily, especially when combining the 1:1, 1:2 and 2:1 icons. Because the width of icons is varying but the height is generally fixed, by doing so basically no existing map will be affected, rather they will be benefited from applying the icons with different width easier. Please support. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:33, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Supprort, seems sensible to me. Thryduulf (talk) 12:49, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Support, if it's not hard technically. --DS - fax 11:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested in Template talk:BSpx. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 12:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Add "link=" syntax to images

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but I think it would be a good idea to add link= to all the BSicon images. This would prevent the images from being able to be clicked and taken to their image description page. I think it's a good idea because there's no reason to provide direct links to the description pages for all the images. According to WP:EIS, links are only required if the image is not in public domain, and since all of them are (or should be, since you can't hold a copyright on most of them anyway), there would be no issue in doing so. –Dream out loud (talk) 19:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer not, because when building an RDT, it's one of the easiest ways to find the icon that you need: find another RDT that bears the shape that you want, and click it. Saves an awful lot of time finding the template page (not all RDTs have the v-d-e links), then going for "edit" and rummaging around a lot of non-intuitive abbreviation and codes. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Larger width

Is there a way to have more than 9 icons in a row? Because I want to have a more 2-dimensional map.--Mikespedia is on Wikipedia! 14:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes. There are, in fact, templates handling up to 12 icons across with a single column of text (ie up to {{BS12}}) or with the double column of text (ie up to {{BS12-2}}); there is also {{BS14-2}}. However, be careful not to make the RDT so wide that it's squeezes the text at lower screen sizes. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:40, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Clicking icons

Has any thought ever been given to making icons unable to be clicked? I know this is generally frowned upon, but ever since it has been implemented in the {{jct}} template for the highway shields by WP:USRD, I have given it thought for this project. I don't think it is necessary for the icons to be able to be clicked, and only leads to confusion for regular users who click on the icons and don't know what they're looking at afterward. I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I think it is something that should be taken into consideration.

Please don't. If I spot a BSicon that I want to use elsewhere, it helps me to find the icon name without picking through the template source. There used to be a third method: the icon name was displayed as a ToolTip when you hovered over it, but that feature was removed some months ago. Another bonus of making the icon clickable is that if it isn't exactly the one I want, but is something similar, I can get a link to the commons page, and from that, the relevant category. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Adding to different Language

I would like to use this type of template in a Non-English Wikipedia that doesn't have it yet. Can anybody give me general instructions (or better) on how to do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.5.194 (talk) 12:37, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

The RDT templates on English Wikipedia were originally copied from German Wikipedia, but several of them have been adapted since then. There are now an awful lot of templates in this group. As a bare minimum, you'll need {{Railway line header}}, {{BS-header}}, {{BS-table}}, {{BS-alt}}, {{BS-overlap}}, {{BSpx}} also the row templates {{BS}}, {{BS2}}, {{BS3}}, etc., and their variants {{BS-2}}, {{BS2-2}}, {{BS3-2}}, etc. The good news is that you don't need to copy the icons, because they're all on Commons, so are shared across all Wikimedia projects. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:56, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

You will need {{BS-startCollapsible}}, {{BS2-startCollapsible}} and {{Superimpose2}} also. (Superimpose2 has the downward compactibility with {{Superimpose}}, so just go for the version 2.) -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:20, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! One last Q, if they're all on the commons how do I use them? Have to admit, never touched the commons :-) Chocom (talk) 13:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry about it; all commons files are used as if they were Wikipedia files, and so are linked using the same [[File:xxxx]] syntax. For example [[File:BSicon BHF.svg]] is the icon for a main station, and that file identifier is the same whether the file is on Wikipedia or on Commons; if you click it, you'll see that in this case, there is a box in there saying something like "This is a file on Wikimedia Commons".

The BS templates make the linking easier for you; so you don't worry about the "[[File:BSicon " part or the ".svg]]" part - you just use the bit in the middle, "BHF", as in {{BS|BHF||London}}. The {{BS}} template (and its subtemplates) change the BHF into the full identifier.

The one time that I do find it useful to know that the files are on Commons is when searching for icons - all are in commons:Category:Icons for railway descriptions or its subcategories (or at least, they should be). Those in commons:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/Bilderkatalog have been approved by the German Wikipedia, and are highly unlikely to change. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:03, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Track details

There are many icons that describe the surroundings of a railway line and features that cross it in considerable detail. I have not found many corresponding ones (except some details of junctions) that describe the track layout, which is usually of interest to train fans. Simple items such as single and double or multiple track, crossings, don't seem to be representable, nor other details like power (none, overhead catenary, 3rd rail, 4th rail). Some folks have used the blue icons for metre gauge and red for standard gauge in mixed gauge scenarios. Do icons of this type exist? If not have they been mooted? Oldboltonian (talk) 08:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

There have been dozens of talks about what is considerably possible to show. We already show

existing track (dark color) vs. erstwhile/planned track (light color)
heavy rail (red), light rail or canals (blue), footpaths or unwatered canals (green)
normal track (plain), elevated track (grey parallel lines), tunnel track (dashed)

We don't show

quantity of parallel tracks,
gauge (to many different gauges),
power (to many different systems/voltages/frequencies).

Btw. have you noticed commons:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/crossing?

Regards axp_de ^Hello! 14:15, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Icon request

I need a new icon creating please. Based upon File:BSicon KRZol+l.svg but with the two linking lines in light red. This is for use on the new ECML diagram . Mjroots (talk) 10:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

A solution was offered at WT:UKRAIL#East Coast Main Line RDT - is that not suitable? --Redrose64 (talk) 12:28, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Possibly, but I'd like to keep a consistent approach across the diagram. See User talk:Britmax#East Coast Main Line/Diagram for full explanation. Mjroots (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Done

(KRZoxl+xl) --Redrose64 (talk) 17:55, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

proposal on commons conc. GRENZE icons

Hello,

on commons we just discuss the need to devide the {x}GRENZE and e{x}GRENZE icons into two different sets of icons, adding shaded versions to both of them as "erstwhile".

Futhermore the long time used pseudo-suffix "_legende" should be substituted by a proper prefix, suggestions so far are "l" for "legend" and "o" for "overlay".

The discussion started at commons:Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions/experimental/borders. Regards axp_de ^Hello! 21:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

To save the hassle of a split discussion, please comment at commons:Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions/experimental/borders, not here. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposed substitution of BS-Infobox

As you should have known already I've done a massive revision to replace the header templates by {{BS-map}}. Also for in-map infobox I've created {{BS-Infobox2}} to substitute {{BS-Infobox}}. Now I've finished manually revising the maps which used BS-Infobox, the remaining are not transcluded into the article. (What links BS-Infobox). So I would like to ask if you guys agree to replace the syntax of BS-Infobox by BS-Infobox2. This will subsequently forced editors to shift to BS-map as well because it's slightly buggy to apply BS-Infobox2 under the traditional way, see my sandbox. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:18, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

If possible I would like to revise the {{BS-daten}} but it's transcluded even more than BS-Infobox. And the main reason that BS-daten and BS-infobox don't work properly in BS-map is because they're not a complete table on their own but depend on the call of table at the beginning, so the easiest way to redeem the flaw is simply to ring them by {{{!}} & {{!}}} when transcluded in the top parameter of BS-map (example). But ultimately I wanna reduce the burden of knowledge. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

This extensive change to {{BS-map}} has resulted in one unintended consequence, specifically noticed on the various Historic Scottish Railway RDT. Previously the header line has been a solid colour representative of the pregrouping company. This has now been replaced with a small colour block and a grey background (i.e. {{Glasgow, Dumfries and Carlisle Railway}}. Can we please find a means to get back this option that was in {{BS-header}} into {{BS-map}}. Whilst I no problem with the change to {{BS-map}}, it will make it easier to code the RDT, this particular functionality and layout has been lost. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 09:45, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry that confused you but you can manually change back to the original style by removing the {{colorbox}} and applying the parameters title-bg and title-color of BS-map. But I change to colorbox intentionally as per WP:COLOR that applying colored font or colored background potentially hinder the (fully or partially) color-blind readers' accessibility. But if you want to move back to colored background I won't oppose. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 11:28, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I also note your comment about colour-blind readers. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 14:15, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if I have missed something somewhere, however today I noticed that the text to the right of RDT. For example {{Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway}} is on the old template is left justified, whilst {{Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway}} is on the new template and the stations, etc are centred. Any ideas what has happened?? --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 15:42, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

On both there is some text left-justified, some centred, and some right-justified. Please give examples of particular words or phrases which you believe have changed incorrectly. --User:Redrose64^{(talk | edits)} 17:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

The BS* template displays left or right justified text depending on where and how many "|" are used.

Using Google Chrome {{Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway}} and {{Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway}} shows the stations and junctions left justified, and the connecting lines right justified and small. For example, the Greenock stations on {{Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway}} are left justified. I mainly use Chrome at home.
At work I use Internet Explorer 6 (want I have to use!!). Now look at the Greenock stations on {{Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway}}. They are centre justified, as are other stations and junctions - which is NOT as expected. The connecting lines are right justified (as expected), with nothing is left justified. Looking at {{Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway}}, in IE6 the stations are still left justified and the connecting lines right justified, with nothing centred. I have IE7 and IE8 on computers at home and the display is the same as IE6.

So why in Chrome does it not matter whether {{BS-map}} or {{BS-header}} is used for an RDT, whilst in IE(6/7/8) the stations are centred on {{BS-map}}, but still left justified - as expected - in {{BS-header}}

--Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 18:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Different browsers behave differently. Always have, always will do. Firefox follows the published standards as far as possible (I believe that Chrome does too): Microsoft go out of their way to avoid following somebody else's standard and there's nothing you or I can do to change that. That said, the people coding up potentially high-impact templates like {{BS-map}} have a duty to ensure that they behave as similarly as possible on all major browsers.

I believe that the significant difference is on the 20th line of {{BS-map/map}} which reads:

align=center

the corresponding wikicode in the old version was on the second line of {{BS-table}}:

colspan="2" align="{{#if:{{{3|}}}|{{{3}}}|left}}"

it's hard to be sure. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:22, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your detective work - this level of coding is beyond me. Hopefully the originator will give us his thoughts when the time difference allows. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 20:28, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Added text-align: left in {{BS-map/map}} and it works in IE7 (my default browser is currently Firefox 4.x.) I don't have IE8 installed so please kindly report any change. Thank you. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks - seems to be OK with IE (at work) - will check back on IE8 when next get to my home PC. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 06:50, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Time???

I fail to see how including a time variable for "traveling time from the starting point" is encyclopedic. Such information could readily change depending on weather, hardware, track conditions, etc. That a route exists, sure. That it runs in X amount of time? No. I recommend removing this from this. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Could be useful, and times are only guidelines and timetabled anyway. -mattbuck (Talk) 14:25, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

"Useful" isn't an argument for inclusion of something. We're not a guide. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:39, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

There was actually dispute over providing time in the map in Chinese Wikipedia. One editor claimed that he measured personally and replace the travel time from railway official site by his measures. So honestly you can remove the data as per wp:original research if they're not official. But generally distance is prefered over time. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 15:00, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

MW-collapsible for RDT

{{bs-map
|title=Mediawiki new collapsible option
|map=
{{BS3|STR|STR|STR||1|tw=80px}}
{{BS3|STRq|STRq|STRq}}
{{BS3|uSTR|uSTR|uSTR||3}}
{{BS3|uSTR|uSTR|uSTR||4}}
{{!}}}
{{BS3|STR|STR|STR||5}}
}}

The MW-collapsible is a kinda fancy substitute of the conventional collapsible function which instead of show/hide the collapsed section instantly, it generates an animation effect that shows/hides the collapsible section gradually. The advantage of MW-collapsible is that reader can easier notice which part is originally collapsed without the need of changing background color, which is visually distracting. The fading effect of MW-collapsible is not supported by IE7 or older browsers but the collapsing function works as normal as original collapsible function. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 06:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

RDT in mobile view

I was looking at several RDT in mobile view (smart phone) over the past day. I have noticed that when various BS templates are used in an RDT, for example {{Glasgow Central}} which uses BS-5, BS-7 and BS-9 vertical alignment is lost, hence the vertical lines through the template are lost. Looking at a template which has a constant BS - {{Dalry and North Johnstone Line}} which only has BS-3 the vertical line through the template is maintained. Mobile view also was showing white space between each line, however this was not too much of a viewing issue.

Thoughts? --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 11:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't use mobile to browse website. Can you capture the screenshots from your phone so we can get a better idea? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Going to have to work out how to get screenshots from the mobile - may have to revert to a digital camera. In the meantime have a look at "mobile view of Template:Glasgow Central". and "mobile view of Template:Dalry and North Johnstone Line".. This is not exactly the same as the mobile, but illustrates the issue. You might like to pick up the "mobile view" option at the bottom of any page. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 22:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

If the mobile view option on a "standard" computer browser is close to the actual rendering on the mobile phone, I would say this is unfortunately incurable, UNLESS our mobile staff modify the global css of mobile view. Seemingly the primaily cause of the breakings is that the width and height of the table cell are stretched greater of equal precentage (which is not intended by the RDT project.) This is better reported to meta staff m:Mobile Projects, but I doubt they would take this issue too seriously. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The rendering via the mobile view on a "standard" copmputer browser illustrates the main display features on a smartphone. So I guess it is off to Mobile Projects. It does raise an interesting point in my mind with respect to the increased use of mobile devices - Android, Blackberry and iPhone - and also tables for example the iPad and (if the copyright issues are sorted) the Samsung Galaxy tablet, as the latter two have a lot of similarities with thier respective assocaited smartphones. Incidentally it is a Galaxy SII that I have recently been trialling. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 11:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Mobile-friendly versions

These templates don't render properly on our mobile pages or app - for example see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherton_Tunnel_Branch_Canal What can be done about this? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:50, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

This has come up recently... I just went off down the archives, didn't find it then came back and find that it's still here, at #RDT in mobile view. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

A fix is being worked on; see: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34711 Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Trial fix

Few days ago, I happened to view an RDT on iPhone Safari and found the problem was still there - icons left-aligned, large vertical and horizontal gaps appeared. So I thought I could have fixed it, not by modifying the mobile .css, but by modifying HTML tag styles inside templates. First I list here what might have contributed to these imperfections, from mobile version common.css:

For tables, margin-left: 0pt !important, which left-aligns icon rows
For tables, width: 100% !important, which stretches icon rows and so introduces gaps

And so, recently I have modified {{BSrow}}, {{BSrow-2}} and {{BSrow-sc}} (but not yet {{BSrow-replace}}) to add the following styles to the icon table inside:

margin: 0px auto !important, to centre-align icon rows and eliminate top and bottom margins
width: auto !important, to eliminate left and right gaps between icons
line-height: 0px !important, to eliminate top and bottom gaps between icon rows
(Also I removed the depreciated <center> tags)

I have viewed the effect on common desktop browsers (IE7+, FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari) and on iPhone and Android browsers. IE6 does not support transparent PNG (so no overlays) but alignment there is still fine. For mobile browsers, given their narrower screens, texts around RDT might wrap and add space between icon rows. I suggest adding a <div style="overflow: auto"> in {{BS-map/map}} to allow left-right scrolling if necessary and prevent wrapping. For a similar effect, check out {{Timeline of iPad models}} in mobile browsers or in a narrow window. Yet I feel this would affect desktop version as well, and so I would like to bring up this issue here and ask for opinions. – PeterCX&Talk 17:16, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I checked some of the map in both mobile and desktop view and both look fine. I just don't have a real mobile phone to check if the map actually works properly in the actual machine, shame XD. Many users discourage using !important to override the default setting, but since none of them has explained the reason to add the extra padding in the table cell in mobile view, I guess this is the answer. GJ Peter. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:41, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually there's a very minor bug of the fix. Look at WP:ROUTE#BS(#) row templates that suggests adding div style="float:right" to reduce the text cell width. The note 1 text with the div is soft-returned. But the same code in Chinese WP does not have such problem (zh:Wikipedia:铁路系统标示/模板#BS(#)模板編號參數, the mobile fix is already applied there too), so I guess this bug is kinda conditional. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

OMG. It seems the mobile view has been once again modified, rendering the fix for the RDT maps meaningless. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

After some testing, I guess the problem is that width, align and margin are overridden by default setting of mobile view even you use !important. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 16:48, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Hover2Discover

Can I ask for opinions on my Hover2Discover RDT, shown on my user subpage SubShuttle?
I am not saying that it should always be credited to me, but would it work on a mass scale?
--by Xsanda (visit my talk page) 16:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

OK then.

It is far too big: we draw RDTs up and down the page, rather than across, because we don't know how wide the user's monitor is.
A few visible location names should be provided: expecting the user to mouseover to see them could violate WP:ACCESSIBILITY.
Putting your name in there could be seen as a violation of WP:OWN.
I recognised the area straight away (I used to work in Newbury), but I'm not aware of any scheme called "sub shuttle". What is this?

--Redrose64 (talk) 16:54, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

This is not a diagram, this is a full-blown map built with the RDT templates. It would be more useful to start with a screenshot from OpenStreetMap and trace over what you want to show (as in, e.g. File:Holstebro - Vejle railway.png), then use something like {{Overlay}} or the various templates providing similar functionalities to label it. Circéus (talk) 17:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Opera as a browser

In Opera the BS icons always have a blue background when in a BS-table. Does anyone know why, and more importantly can they fix it? 90.37.123.194 (talk) 09:49, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

{{BS-map|title=Demo of yellow bg|map=
{{BS|BHF||Station A}}
{{BS|BHF||Station B|O1=uSTRq}}
}}

Curious - I've not seen this before. I shall check when next on a machine with Opera installed (currently away from home - not my PC to install software on). One thing I do know is that BS icons are set up with a transparent background - that is why the overlay feature works (the horizontal blue line on Station B at right is an overlay) - and so when displayed in an RDT, the icon background should match the RDT's background. This is inherited from the XHTML class="toccolours" specified by the {{Railway line header}} template (this class is defined as .toccolours{border:1px solid #aaa;background-color:#f9f9f9;padding:5px;font-size:95%}, #f9f9f9 being a very pale grey - ), and may be partially or wholly overridden by adding a parameter to that template, as at right. So, when looking at my mini-RDT, do you see a consistent yellow, or does the background also take a blue tint at the icon positions? --Redrose64 (talk) 15:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

There is still the mystery blue background for the icons, and yellow in the rest of the box. I have also posted a message on Opera's forums (here). In the French version (check here) the French language template (where it says en mode francophone) doesn't show the blue background while the Original/German language template does (en mode internationale). Their source codes are very different however. 86.200.212.64 (talk) 13:18, 29 December 2011 (UTC) (different IP, same guy)

Can you capture a screenshot of the blue background map? You can upload the screenshot to Wikimedia Commons using the CC-by-sa 3.0 license after cropping out the browser interface. This will help everyone greatly to understand your issue. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 14:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Here's an illustration of the problem. Concerning the French case, you must know that there are two types of templates: those that use the original names (such as BHF or STR) and those that use translated names (so for the exact same icons the names GARE and VOIE) – the first appear under the names BS, BS2, BS3, etc, while the second use the names BSbis, BS2bis, BS3bis, etc. When a line of the diagramme uses a template that uses the translated French name for icons (such as {{BS3bis}}) the blue background doesn't appear, and when a line of the diagramme uses a template that uses the original names (such as {{BS}}) the blue background does appear. 86.200.212.64 (talk) 23:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

File:BS-table problems in Opera 11.60.png

{{bs-map \|map={{BS\|STR\|\|row 1\|bg=transparent}} \|map2={{BS\|STR\|\|row 2\|bg=white}} \|map3={{BS\|STR\|\|row 3\|bg=red}} }}
Original BS-table	BS-table in Opera

Can you tell how the right map looks like? I suspect the issue is related to the default entry of background color, but want your confirmation. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

This is what I see - I think you're on to something. 86.200.212.64 (talk) 11:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

How about this?

CSS background-color test
transparent	gray	red
Deprecated bgcolor test
transparent	gray	red

-- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 12:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Right, I'm home now: I have Opera as follows:

Version 11.52

Build 1100

Platform Win32

System Windows XP

XHTML+Voice Plug-in not loaded

Browser identification Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.9.168 Version/11.52

and I see the same as Firefox - that is,

"Demo of yellow bg" - yellow background for both station icons
"Original BS-table" - transparent, white, red
"CSS background-color test" and "Deprecated bgcolor test" - both show identically, as transparent, gray, red

The only icons showing a blue background are in some of the screenshots. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the fact I'm using version 11.60, build 1185, platform Win32, Windows 7, changes things. Anyway, for Sameboat, I see white, grey, red, then blue, grey, red. I guess therefore that we simply need to update the templates to current CSS standards. 86.200.212.64 (talk) 16:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Changing the row templates from bgcolor to CSS background-color. But some template is being protected like BS3 so I added the editprotected request. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help. 86.200.212.64 (talk) 23:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Seems all the French BS# templates are being protected as well, you may need to ask for editprotected there too. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 00:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I've (belatedly) upgraded my Opera, and now have the following changed values in "About Opera":

Version 11.60

Build 1185

Browser identification Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.60

I see just one change to the various demos and samples above: in the table added by Sameboat - 同舟 12:25, 30 December 2011, the bottom-left cell containing "transparent" now has a blue background. The important thing is that various "real" RDTs display consistently in Opera 11.60 and Firefox 3.6.25 --Redrose64 (talk) 12:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Collapsible section and replacement for BS*-2 templates

{{bs-map
|title=BS3-2sc and replace
|legend=0
|collapsible=0
|map=
{{BS3-2|KBHFa|KBHFa|KBHFa|row 1|2|3|4|tw-left=100px|tw=120px}}
{{BS3-2|uLSTR|uLSTR|uLSTR|replace 1|2|3|4|tw-left=100px}}
{{bs3-2|BHF|BHF|BHF|1|2|row 3|4}}
{{BS-2|KBHFe|1|2|3|row 4}}
}}

I've created {{BSrow-2sc}}, {{BS3-2sc}}, {{BSrow-2replace}} and {{BS3-2replace}} for testing. You can see some more examples in my user:Sameboat/sandbox2. Aside from applying them like conventional BS#, BS#-startCollapsible and BS#-replace, you also need to apply the new parameter tw-left to define the left text cell width (with the same value) for 1 single non-collapsible BS#-2 row and all BS#-2sc templates otherwise the icons won't join cohesively between these 2 templates. You also need to apply tw-left in BS#-2replace if you have text in the left text cell, otherwise the text will be (virtually) aligned to left instead of right. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:00, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Two proposed changes to the BS-overlap

{{bsmap
|title=rotate
|legend=0
|collapsible=0
|map=
{{BS/sandbox|STR2|O1=utBHFq|R1=90|Rotated 90-degree}}
{{BS/sandbox|utBHFq|O1=STR|R1=45|Rotated 45-degree}}
{{BS/sandbox|ENDEe|R1=-90|Rotated -90-degree}}
}}

First, here is the rotation parameter, this is just fancy and I think it's only practical to rotate the icon at 90-degree. And even rotated to cardinal angle the icon is still blurred. Hopefully the newer version of browser could fix this visual problem. Secondly, I want to remove the unmaintained {{BS-alt}}, it's badly implemented and lacks people to write the default descriptions for over 5000 icons. It's also a disaster for normal reader if they just turn off loading graphic of their browser and suddenly bunch of unreadable alt text overlaps each other in the map. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:32, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Rotation looks interesting to me, though my experience with IE suggests that it will never be fully supported by all... (if you are interested, check out IE filters for rotation in IE5.x onwards; this addition should require parser functions to calculate matrices in {{Rotate}})
I have been having the interest of removing the clickable/hyperlink nature of all icons, i.e. all icons do not have <a> tag unless those icons have an L# parameter defined in {{BS}} rows. What I thought by then was similar to what you have been thinking: those ALTs serve not much purpose to general readers. You should have seen my earlier trials in {{BS-overlap/sandbox}} which tried to disable links by default; though I have not published those because there was an earlier consensus to oppose this kind of change

– PeterCX&Talk 15:08, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

2) Although I still have some love to be able to read the ID when hover over the icon, it makes sense to disable the internal link of the icon by default. I concur it. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 15:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I created this template, which works fine as a stand-alone, but I wasn't able to figure out how to modify it so that it could be used in a BS-row template. Does anyone have any thoughts? Useddenim (talk) 02:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Chrome Browser

There is a slight shift to the northwest direction when overlay is used on BS-table on Chrome on Mac OS X (See screen capture on the right). Does anyone experience the same problem?--Xeror (talk) 15:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Google Chrome is one of the least compatible modern browser with this project. The said map, {{Hammersmith & City line RDT}}, looks fine on Windows XP without the glitch on overlapped rows. However, the maps in the WP:ROUTE project page which use {{BS-map}} have the exact same issue on PC Chrome as {{BS-table}} on Mac Chrome. So I honestly have no idea how to fix it for Chrome on both platforms. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I've found that Google Chrome renders the content in a table cell not from the top-left corner (0px, 0px) but somewhere like (2px, 2px) from it. However, since {{superimpose2}} adds a <div> inside the table cell and this <div> actually renders at (0px, 0px) relative to the table cell. I have not figured out the way to make Google Chrome render the table cell content at (0px, 0px) but I found a workaround solution, which is to add <div> even there is no overlay. Here we need to change {{BS-overlap}} source codes as follows. These codes have been tested on zh wikipedia and it works fine so far.

| <!-- workaround fix for Chrome table cell shift problem --><div style="position: relative; width: {{BSpx}};"><!--
      -->{{#if: {{{2|}}}
        | [[File:BSicon_{{#if:1|{{{2}}}}}.svg|{{{1|{{BSpx}}}}}{{
	      #ifeq: {{{link|file:}}} | file:
	      || {{!}}link={{{link|}}}
	    }}|alt={{
	      #ifeq: {{{alt|#default}}} | #default
	      || {{{alt}}}
	    }}{{#if:{{{2|}}}|{{!}}{{{2}}}}}]]
        | [[File:BSicon_.svg|{{{1|{{BSpx}}}}}|link=|alt=]]
      }}<!--
    --></div>

--Xeror (talk) 21:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Display bug in Firefox 18+

In Firefox 18 and above (currently in beta), many route templates are displayed too wide, with a lot of white space in the right-hand side of the template - see this bug for a screenshot. The root cause (should that be route cause? ho ho) seems to be the width="100%" caused by Template:BS-header if less than 5 parameters are passed. A quick glance through Category:Waterway routemap templates suggests that this issue could affect more than half the pages that use this template. Prouder Mary 20:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Bug is now fixed. Prouder Mary 09:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Appearance in Signpost

This project is due to appear in Signpost on February 11th but as a question as part of another project, WikiProject Infoboxes. If anyone is interested, please see and possibly answer at Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/WikiProject_desk/Interviews. Simply south...... walking into bells for just 6 years 00:01, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Alignment

Is there a way to align {{BS-map}}, say to the left? - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

|style=float:left; --Redrose64 (talk) 20:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 10:47, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposed changes to protected BS-overlap, BSpx

{{BS-map
|title=Template sandboxes
|legend=no
|map=
{{BS/sandbox|KBHFa|L1=Template:BSpx/sandbox||{{tl|BSpx/sandbox}}||{{tl|BSpx}}}}
{{BS/sandbox|BHF|L1=Template:BS-overlap/sandbox2||{{tl|BS-overlap/sandbox2}}||{{tl|BS-overlap}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|KRW+l|KRWl|O2=KRWgr|KRW+r}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|STR|BHF|L3=Template:BSrow/sandbox||{{tl|BSrow/sandbox}}||{{tl|BSrow}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|STR|HST|O3=num1l|L3=Template:BS/sandbox||{{tl|BS/sandbox}}||{{tl|BS}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|STR|KHSTxe|O3=num3l|L3=Template:BS3/sandbox||{{tl|BS3/sandbox}}||{{tl|BS3}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|STR|exCONTf|O3=numNl}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|L2=Template:BSrow-sc/sandbox|||{{tl|BSrow-sc/sandbox}}||{{tl|BSrow-sc}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|HST|O2=num3l|L2=Template:BS3-startCollapsible/sandbox2|||{{tl|BS3-startCollapsible/sandbox2}}||{{tl|Bs3-sc}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|L2=Template:BSrow-replace/sandbox|||{{tl|BSrow-replace/sandbox}}||{{tl|BSrow-replace}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|KHSTxe|O2=num3l|L2=Template:BS3-replace/sandbox|||{{tl|BS3-replace/sandbox}}||{{tl|BS3-replace}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|exCONTf|O2=numNl}}
{{BS3/sandbox|BHF|L1=Template:BSrow-2/sandbox||||{{tl|BSrow-2/sandbox}}||{{tl|BSrow-2}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|KHSTxe|O1=num3l|L1=Template:BS3-2/sandbox||||{{tl|BS3-2/sandbox}}||{{tl|BS3-2}}}}
{{BS3/sandbox|exCONTf|O1=numNl}}
}}

As discussed in Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Timeout errors and tested in {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}}, few changes for reducing loading time of the map and transcluded article are made:

No longer load file:BSicon_.svg to fill in the blank space.
Replace the 50-layer {{superimpose2}} by 5-layer {{superimpose5}}.
Remove transclusion of {{BS-alt}} which lacks users to maintain and was itself badly designed (using #switch parser with more than 100 branches raises serious performance issue).
Disable the image description page link of each icon unless the named parameter L(n) in the BS row template is specified.
Remove the leftover border parameter from BS-overlap and all BSn.

Optional:

Fix for Google Chrome as detailed by Xeror in the previous thread (archived). This needs performance test in English Wikipedia.
Re-define {{BS}} PX parameters to accept the height of icons (e.g. "20px"), instead of a general image size syntax allowing the "x" prefix (e.g. "x20px" for height, "40px" for width). At the same time, change the meaning of {{BSpx}} to store the default height of icons ("x20px" to "20px"). – PeterCX&Talk 16:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Remove all alt parameters due to redundancy and no one really uses it.

Again, once we have consensus I will request for edit-protect. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 07:31, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sameboat! Just a note, I have skimmed through your new {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}} and made some changes. To summarise I have removed support for {{{border}}} parameter since, firstly {{{float50}}} is not available for {{Superimpose5}}, and secondly File:BSicon border.svg is not there.– PeterCX&Talk 15:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The border parameter is a leftover of my old experiment. It's perfect that you removed it. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 15:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

About disabling link

I have also altered {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}} AND both {{BS/sandbox}} and {{BS3/sandbox}} to together demonstrate the 4th requirement above: to disable the image link to its own description page unless {{{L#}}} is explicitly "file:". For alt and caption, I am less sure on how we should comply with WP:ALT. My personal idea is that the icons are less relevant to screen readers, so to my understanding: for non-clickable icons alt should be empty string and caption is irrelevant; for clickable icons alt should be empty string either and caption should say something about the link destination, like passing {{{L#}}} as the caption. – PeterCX&Talk 16:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

As I have said in an old thread, the problem of alt for RDT map is that if someone (like me) turns off loading image in their browser for whatever reason, the alt text will be a mess and sandwich the prose badly, particularly when the overlaying function is used. So I prefer to just give image alt parameter a nil entry so no alt text will be shown ever unless the editor uses the altn parameters in their map, but this to my opinion is not encouraged too. Multiple icons which compose a diagram shouldn't be given alt entry individually, it just doesn't work. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:26, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds right to me. – PeterCX&Talk 12:21, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me too. Graham87 14:38, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

	No alt nor caption	\|alt=	\|alt=ALT	\|CAPTION	\|alt=ALT\|CAPTION
Nolink
Link to Station
Link to icon desc page

– PeterCX&Talk 16:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

{{BS-map
|legend=no
|title=Hack?
|map=
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|O1="|STR|O3=" data-author="Peterwhy!!!" height="50px" onclick="alert()}}
}}

When I read the old archives, I read that disabling both the link and alternative texts is a concern for editors to discover, check and debug icons. For this purpose, I have added, again in this batch of {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}} modification, a class name and 6 data- attributes on each icon table cell to store BSicon IDs. To make use of these, some day I might make a JavaScript to show a tooltip for icons.

Yet, I also feel this might be a security concern. In this example I have messed up the td tag of the third icon, though not in any dangerous way. Any idea or suggestion? — Peter why 06:56, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

The ALT text is little concern because it's primarily for visually impaired reader. But I don't quite understand what the data attribute gives. Is that your JS would create something like tooltip message like the caption attribute does? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 07:43, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Custom data attribute is a way to store information as part of HTML tags, and can be read and processed by JavaScripts (including Wikipedia user scripts).[2] By using this, I had an idea of storing the original BSicon IDs within tags generated by {{BS-overlap}} that is normally hidden by readers; for unhappy map editors who wants the old tooltip and file links back, they can install or write a user script to extract icon IDs and re-implement what is convenient to them. An example of an HTML tag with custom data attribute:

<td data-o0="STR" data-o1="" data-o2="" data-o3="" data-o4="" data-o5="" class="bs-overlap" style="background-color:inherit; border:0px !important;">

— Peter why 18:09, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The hack example you provide doesn't show any tooltip when I hover over the icons. Is your JS incomplete? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 22:28, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

No, but let me re-explain this idea. I added the class and custom data attributes in {{BS-overlap}} as a way to allow JS to identify icons and know the exact IDs of every layer of icons. These attributes are hidden from normal reader and would not cause any alternative text or tooltips appear to them. And therefore, you are at this point of seeing nothing interesting yet.

However, if one wish to, one can write and install user scripts to extract these attributes and process them in a useful manner, such as displaying icon IDs in a tooltip. Since you don't have any user scripts installed so far, you should not see anything new, except, in the source code, the new class and custom data attributes that would not be rendered. And for security reason, I cannot add a user script to your account either.

The hack example above was to show some way an editor can misuse the {{BS-overlap}} parameters and destroy table layout, if such custom data attributes are implemented. Notice the weird icon id in the third column in this example. — Peter why 04:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm readily request for editprotect. Would you leave the JS part out for the next patch? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 09:06, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm also ready for the large scale edits, and again the JS thing is totally optional and purely supplementary. Do you already have a method to generate codes for all BSn, BSn-2, BSn-sc, etc templates? Please let me know when we will initialise all modifications. — Peter why 12:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not a programmer, but I've made similar changes in zh.wp already. The fastest way to do by hand is that you copy the BS-overlap column code from the previous BSn to the next BSn. For example, once you've finished modifying BS3, you copy all BS-overlap column codes before submission, then paste the codes over the BS-overlap column codes of BS4 and copy-n-paste the 4th column from the 3rd column code and modify the numbers. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 06:50, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

About not using File:BSicon .svg

{{BS-map |title=Blank cells |collapse={{collapse|}} |map-title=Incorrect alignment |map= {{BS3/sandbox||STRq|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} |map2-title=has same effect in some browsers as |map2= {{BS|STRq||bla}} {{BS2|BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS2|STR|BHF||bla}} {{BS2|BHF|STR||bla}} |map3-title=Correct alignment with a fully-occupied row |map3= {{BS3/sandbox|CONTgq|STRq|CONTfq||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} |map4-title=Correct alignment with an explicit leer |map4= {{BS3/sandbox|CONTfq|CONTfq|leer||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} |map5-title=collapsible |map5= {{BS3/sandbox||STRq|||bla|tw=90px}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3-startCollapsible/sandbox2||STRq|CONTfq||bla}} {{BS3-replace/sandbox|STR|BHF}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{!}}} |map6-title= Mixing {{tl|BS}} and {{tl|BS3}} |map6= {{BS/sandbox|STRq||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox||BHF|STR||bla}} {{BS3/sandbox|STR|BHF|||bla}} |map7-title= {{tl|BS3-2}} |map7= {{BS3-2/sandbox|STR|BHF||1|bla}} {{BS3-2/sandbox||BHF|STR|2|bla}} {{BS3-2/sandbox|STR|BHF||3|bla}} }}

I tried to create these BS maps to show some misalignment in some of my browsers. In IE9 compatibility mode (probably equivalent to IE8-), Chrome, Safari and Opera of a same Windows machine, the three stations of the first map aligns nicely. However, in IE9 normal mode and Firefox of the same machine, map 1 and map 2 has the same effect. I remember dimly that was the reason I could not replace File:BSicon .svg directly with empty cells in an early early version of {{BS-overlap}}. I am not sure if this is my own problem, but if this is not, then I feel the first modification is not in urgent need to be made. – PeterCX&Talk 18:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Same problem in Firefox v.19.0.2. Guess we will instruct editors to use shorter BSn row template as possible in a big map. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:17, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Please take a look at ja:User:Peterwhy. In JA Wikipedia the alignments seem to be right, and they also switched to show empty cell instead of File:BSicon .svg long time ago. Please help to see if there are any styling difference. – PeterCX&Talk 02:30, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Not as you thought. The JA RDT still loads leer if icon ID is not specified. The blank cell of JA RDT map is un-highlight-able because ja:template:BS-overlap doesn't output any entry to the base_link parameter of template:Superimpose2/5. If the base_link parameter is voided, the base image alone will not be click-able whatsoever. Other single layer icon is still clickable is because the link is on the top layer. In other word, the entry for their base_caption is meaningless and should be removed to increase performance. Worse, they load leer icon even on unoccupied overlapping layers. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Wait, no. In ja:Template:BS-overlap, if parameters 1 and 2 are both empty, the first #if goes to the second branch, and the inner #if gives an empty string... – PeterCX&Talk 03:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry I've overlooked it. Here's how the maps look like in Firefox File:Sameboat temp2.png. Can you also capture one for comparison? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:52, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Peterwhy temp.png from Firefox. Other major browsers (including IE9) give the same visual output. – PeterCX&Talk 04:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sameboat, ~~please bear with me for temporarily undoing your Chrome fix in {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}}~~. I have been trying to copy a CSS difference between JA and EN {{BSrow/sandbox}} to work here to remove blank spaces. The result appears to be working so far, but I have not checked thoroughly among browsers yet. – PeterCX&Talk 02:58, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Reapplied, but since I have never encountered this problem in my Chrome, please check if I have done that correctly. – PeterCX&Talk 04:34, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The width:0px seems like a fix for mobile view but I remember we failed eventually. But this time o year I just switch back to WP's normal mode on mobile. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 04:56, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Please take a look at the collapsible section example. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 05:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

For {{BS3-startCollapsible}} sections, the problem is with the width:100% of the table cell where the [expand/collapse] button is situating at. The 100% is to maximise its area, like in above width:0px to minimise its area. Since this time I cannot in anyway remove that, I have added min-width CSS style for each of the empty icon table cell to be 20px. – PeterCX&Talk 14:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Great, it works. I didn't know about the min-width property. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 15:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

About PX parameter and Template:BSpx

I have added an optional request about the {{{PX}}} parameter in BSn templates and the {{BSpx}} "constant". When I think about these new modification suggestions, the new code comes across a number of instances where the CSS codes require reading the PX parameter, e.g. to define the width of icon cell. However, it is actually wrong (even in the current {{BS-overlap}}) to pass something like "x20px" to width CSS properties. The current code handles that with hardcoded 20px in some places, but that is bad.

From map-builder's perspective, since in almost most diagram rows the icon heights are kept the same, explicitly defining PX parameter to accept the icon height instead of icon size would be more useful and less error-prone. For example, currently if a map defines PX=40px on every row, then that could be a latent error when one day half-width icons are added.

From technical perspective, it would also be much easier to prepend the "x" back to {{BSpx}} while processing, comparing with expensive string processing to remove the current first "x". Also, the new format would be directly useful in any CSS style defined within the templates.

With these in mind, I suggest, in this batch, redefining PX parameters and {{BSpx}} to supply icon height, instead of treating them as the image size syntax of Wiki language. – PeterCX&Talk 16:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable, and, to be honest, I don't know why it hasn't already been implemented. Useddenim (talk) 17:52, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I've no reason to oppose. And I need to remove the leftover border parameters anyway. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:32, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit protected request 2013-04-17

As per the above discussion, please apply {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}} over {{BS-overlap}} and modify {{BSpx}} from "x20px" to just "20px". Thank you. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 06:50, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit protected}} is not required for edits to unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

There must be some misunderstanding. What I see now is that the two target templates are still protected. Please edit as follows:

In {{BS-overlap}}: apply {{BS-overlap/sandbox2}};
In {{BSpx}}: change "x20px" on the first line to "20px" (remove the x prefix).

Thanks — Peter why 16:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

OK I understand now. I'm not an administrator and only came across this request when checking CAT:EP, where this request shows up in red due to being applied to a non-protected page. I now understand what you're asking. It might be a better idea to put {{edit protected}} tags on the actual talk pages of the two templates in question but I'll leave this request alone for an administrator to adjudicate. Cheers, —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Re-requested in individual template talk pages. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Just a notice, I have been communicating with Village Pump about the deployment of these modifications: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Edit protect request to highly-visible template stalled? — Peter why 15:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Route maps 3x faster by BS-overlap update but lack pictogram links

Today, at 09:12, 28 April 2013‎, the route-map formatter Template:BS-overlap was updated (for the first time in 3 years!) to use quick icon-overlay by {Template:Superimpose5}, drop unneeded placeholder File:BSicon_.svg, and omit {BS-alt} which was setting alt-text for each pictogram. Those changes have allowed many route-map diagrams to reformat about 3x faster. Unfortunately, the update also dropped the image-links (to each pictogram image-description page), which is likely improper handling of artwork-attribution links. Anyway, that update allows testing to confirm how the route diagrams can be edit-previewed 3x times faster now, and further updates can be discussed here. Part of the problem has been the fully-protected {BS-overlap}, detering edits, and so there were several pent-up improvements which were delayed during the past 3 years. I have created a spike-solution variation to allow fuller testing of the complex features (as BS-overlap/x), and to format the pictogram alt-text much faster. However, the image-attribution links probably need to be re-added soon in Template:BS-overlap. -Wikid77 (talk) 10:43, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

The request for links to file page worth some discussion. Since you raised this discussion, I noticed that the previous version of {{BS-overlap}} [3] did not include all links to files either, as the link to non-top-most icons is disabled in case of overlays.

And for now, I am not sure what we should do to attribute the artwork. Quite a lot of the icons are in public domain, e.g. in {{PD-ineligible}} or {{PD-shape}}. And according to WP:ALT#Links and attribution, they are fine without a link on map to the image file. Yet, there are also some files that are simple enough shapes but strangely with some CC tags. (e.g.

(STRq) CC-by-SA!) To me, icons under File:BSicon *.svg should be mostly simple shapes, though I guess there must be some icons that was tagged into other permissions. — Peter why 15:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe after three years we could spend some extra weeks sandboxing. Panama Canal and Suez Canal are broken. {{Panama Canal map}}, {{Suez Canal map}}. -DePiep (talk) 16:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to your note, looking into that— Peter why 16:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Great. I could have been less cynical. -DePiep (talk) 16:38, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) {{Panama Canal map}} is more than broken, it's (Redacted). This is why I requested a decent set of testcases, but instead, I was given the finger in the form of a RDT. So I stopped examining those templates which I did know about. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:39, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I feel sorry if you consider that was a finger, please, I didn't mean that. — Peter why 16:56, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

OK then. Now, do we know what's different about {{Panama Canal map}} that is not a problem on e.g. {{Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway}}? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:07, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Only thing I know: the Panama & Suez maps were made by me from scratch ;-). One thing: I remember creating {{BS7-replace}} from a lower numbered form. -DePiep (talk) 17:24, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

{{BS-map
|title = effect on line break
|map = 
{{BS3|STR|STR|
||Effect of current BS-overlap}}
{{BS3/sandbox|STR|STR|
||Effect of modified BS-overlap/sandbox2}}
}}

(edit conflict) Yes. The coding style for icon name broke image tags. In the two canal maps, many of the last icon of the map contains line breaks, and line breaks cannot be fed into image names. A previous attempt to reduce parser function call removed some #if: functions that was instead trying to filter out line breaks. I have added back those necessary #if: parser functions that performed as a filter. — Peter why 17:26, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I've worked out that {{BS7}} doesn't like linebreaks within positional parameters, although they are permitted in named parameters. So, if a line ends with a positional parameter, it can be fixed by moving the line break to a position either before or after the value of the next named parameter, like this --Redrose64 (talk) 17:45, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

While that solves the problem, I don't think that was the intention of this modification to change any coding style. Please take a look at the diff between BS-overlap and its sandbox2 and see if the change can be applied. — Peter why 17:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

This doesn't fix the problem with {{Panama Canal map}}. I tested it by going to Template:BS-overlap/sandbox2, clicking "edit", and without changing any of the template code, I went straight to the "Preview page with this template" box, pasted "Template:Panama Canal map" after "Page title:" and clicked Show preview to the right of that (not the one above). --Redrose64 (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC) Scratch that. It didn't work because ultimately Template:Panama Canal map was still pulling in the unmodified Template:BS-overlap. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, it worked on {{Panama Canal map}} so I've copied Template:BS-overlap/sandbox2 to Template:BS-overlap. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. — Peter why 19:12, 28 April 2013 (UTC)