Wikipedia:Featured and good topic candidates/Mana series/addition3

Mana series (3rd supplementary nomination)

This topic is already featured. It is being re-nominated to add additional items. See Wikipedia talk:Featured topics/Mana series for discussions of the topic's previous nominations. The additional items are:

Visions of Mana

The Mana series, known in Japan as Seiken Densetsu (聖剣伝説, lit. "Legend of the Sacred Sword"), is a high-fantasy action role-playing game series from Square (now Square Enix), created by Koichi Ishii. The series began with the 1999 Game Boy game Seiken Densetsu (Final Fantasy Adventure) as a handheld side story to Square's flagship franchise Final Fantasy, though the Final Fantasy-inspired elements were subsequently dropped starting with the second installment, Secret of Mana, as the games became their own series. It has since grown to include games of various genres within the fictional world of Mana, with recurring stories involving a world tree, its associated holy sword, and the fight against forces that would steal their power. Several character designs, creatures, and musical themes reappear frequently.

Mana series

13 articles

Final Fantasy Adventure

Secret of Mana

Trials of Mana

Legend of Mana‎

Sword of Mana

Children of Mana‎

Dawn of Mana

Heroes of Mana

Rise of Mana

Adventures of Mana

Trials of Mana (2020)

Visions of Mana

Music of the Mana series

Contributor(s): ProtoDrake, PresN

PresN created the Mana series topic in 2015, and believed it completed, but over the years it has been added to twice. Now, the latest series entry Visions of Mana has released and I managed to get the article through the GAN process within the three month limit, so it can be added to this topic. I didn't think I'd be so enthused about this game, but I have been, and I'll be more than happy if it can join its fellows in this topic. Also pinging @Judgesurreal777 and IDV: as they contributed to the first supplementary nomination with their work on Adventure of Mana. To those who weigh in on this nomination, thank you. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as original topic creator, always good to see this topic kept up to date whenever Square Enix revisits it! --Pres N 12:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Idiosincrático (talk) 14:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I love to see topics stay up to date. Also small note I fixed the disambiguation link in the lead Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 17:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support — Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hold Echoes of Mana, a recent release, has just been added and is notable, but not yet at Good Article quality. Given that this Good Topic includes mobile spinoffs like Rise of Mana, it seems to me further work could be done so that it passes the WP:WIAFT 1D criteria of no obvious gaps in coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh.... --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Not to add to the bubble-bursting, but I also believe Secret of Mana (2018 video game) can and should be an article before this Good Topic could be called comprehensive. While it gets short shrift in the article, and I'm sure some fans would rather see it forgotten, it's nevertheless a full 3D remake with its own dev team and reviews, and remakes tend to be notable enough for articles, including multiple remakes in this Good Topic, such as Adventures of Mana and Trials of Mana (2020 video game). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I'm not really sold that obscure mobile spinoff Echoes of Mana is blocking here. I get that topics should be comprehensive-ish but this could theoretically be covered as Circle of Mana is, just in Mana (series). If it is spun out, I'd be more willing to give it a pass as not required as a very minor "part" of the series - it'd be like not including video game series-themed pachislot spinoffs in a topic. That said... Secret of Mana (2018 video game) is more concerning. It looks like that's a mere one sentence in the main Secret of Mana article. I get not wanting to gunk up a featured article with unrelated stuff, but I do agree that this was a full remake akin to Adventures of Mana and should either have a full section in the Secret of Mana article, or its own separate article. SnowFire (talk) 15:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree, SnowFire. Honestly, I didn't see much coverage of the Secret of Mana remake, so while it could be expanded, it's unlikely to be more than a paragraph or two. As to Echoes, I don't know, but I don't have the IRL time or mental energy to commit to it, so maybe Zxcvbnm would like to take it on. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It doesn't seem tremendously hard to get to GA standards so maybe I'll give it a go. But I'd rather try to get the remake page created first given its comparatively higher priority, obvious mainline status, and general agreement it needs a page. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Zxcvbnm: I'd contest your reasonings on the remake. Two editors' comments don't make "higher priority", "obvious mainline status" and "general agreement". --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Okay, maybe I was overstating it. But the fact remains there is a lot of coverage about it which makes me see it as major. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] etc. Certainly more than "I didn't see much coverage". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Zxcvbnm: IMO those reviews could easily make up one paragraph of the main article. I'm against creating articles on remakes which would simple reuse/repeat information. But a stalled GT nomination isn't the place for this discussion. (Small addendum, Adventure of Mana is a renamed reworking for new platforms so relevant, and Trials of Mana remake has substantial differences in gameplay so relevant, while Secret of Mana remake appears not to have that many differences from the original) --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:22, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      To summarize ProtoDrake's concerns with a potential page for the 3D remake of Secret of Mana: The remake is just a 3D version of Secret of Mana with voice acting and not that much drastical changes compared to Adventure of Mana and Trials of Mana. Information on the 3D remake would fit just fine in the main page for Secret of Mana, just like how it was handled with Live A Live. Roberth Martinez (talk) 19:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- (de-indent) Let's add that paragraph then - expand the paragraph in Secret of Mana#Re-releases on what precisely 2018 SoM was, its differences from the original, etc. Then add a new section in Secret of Mana#Reception and legacy that discusses the reviews of 2018 SoM, both on its own merits and as a remake. SnowFire (talk) 20:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @SnowFire: I've made a start on that. The 2018 SoM remake now has its development added, and based on the info I found, the devs confirm it's basically no different from the original sans graphics and a few other smaller additions, so having a whole article for it would be redundant. (Addendum: added reception now, and...it's once again nothing much.) --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Okay, I'll abandon the idea for the remake to get a separate article and just focus on Echoes. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hold until Echoes of Mana becomes GA TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 20:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE— jlwoodwa (talk) 03:22, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, support promotion- Echoes, having just been created, has 3 months to be promoted, and Zxcvbnm isn't showing much haste in working on it. This nomination should be closed as successful, and we can reconvene in February to either add Echoes or start an FLCR. --Pres N 03:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Agree with PresN. I'm satisfied that the added content in the Secret of Mana article on the remake is sufficient. We can revisit in 3-6 months on the progress of Echoes, and either merge it back or start a FLCR. (Although in the name of saving buearucracy, just merge it back if it's not that close to GA-able.). SnowFire (talk) 22:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can understand revisiting it months from now, but merging it back would be blatantly violating WP:WIAFT where it states "A topic must not cherry-pick only the best articles to become featured together." Merging something that nobody would have thought twice about being an article if it wasn't preventing a Good Topic is blatant cherry-picking.

Honestly the page is probably GA-ready already, so if anyone wants to try reviewing it or state what remains to be done before it can be a GA, let me know. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:07, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At a glance the development section is practically non-existant. Everything under it is just release info. The reception section while good at a glance inst great if you really dig in. I'm hesitant to say weather this would survive an AFD. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It would easily survive an AfD, even without much development info it got SIGCOV in Nintendo World Report, RPGFan, The Escapist, and Siliconera. I did notice an interview about the game I missed, so Development should be getting bulked up a bit shortly. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving aside the ADF surviving assertion, there are about two thirds interviews by volume in the sources left on that article's talk page that I dug up and left about/on the main topic page in case someone wanted to create the article. So if someone actually wanted to, they could turn that article into something sound. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]