User talk:Weasleyrian

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Memer15151 were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Weasleyrian! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:SmarterMail

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Draft:SmarterMail, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. VViking_TalkEdits 15:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by KylieTastic was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

KylieTastic (talk) 20:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by KylieTastic was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

KylieTastic (talk) 20:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:SmarterMail has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:SmarterMail. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 22:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I’ve revised this article several times to ensure a more neutral tone and align it with Wikipedia's guidelines. Could you provide guidance on what additional steps or changes are needed to get it approved? I’d appreciate any specific feedback to make this submission meet the requirements. Thank you! Weasleyrian (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 18)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 22:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I want to clarify that I am not being compensated for writing this article. I am a Computer Science student at Grand Canyon University, and one of our assignments was to create a Wikipedia entry for a lesser-known product. SmarterMail was the topic assigned by my professor, so I conducted research and wrote this entry as part of the project. Weasleyrian (talk) 22:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your professor should read this Wikipedia:Education program/Educators. Theroadislong (talk) 07:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Paid editing

Hello Weasleyrian. The nature of your edits gives the impression you have an undisclosed financial stake in promoting a topic, but you have not complied with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. Paid advocacy is a category of conflict of interest (COI) editing that involves being employed (or being compensated in any way) by a person, group, company or organization to promote their interests. Paid advocacy on Wikipedia must be disclosed even if you have not specifically been asked to edit Wikipedia. Undisclosed paid advocacy is prohibited by our policies on neutral point of view and what Wikipedia is not, and is an especially serious type of COI; the Wikimedia Foundation regards it as a "black hat" practice akin to black-hat search-engine optimization.

Paid advocates are strongly discouraged from direct article editing, and should instead propose changes on the talk page of the article in question if an article exists. If the article does not exist, paid advocates are strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. At best, any proposed article creation should be submitted through the articles for creation process, rather than directly.

Regardless, if you are receiving or expect to receive compensation for your edits, broadly construed, you are required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:Weasleyrian. The template {{Paid}} can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form: {{paid|user=Weasleyrian|employer=InsertName|client=InsertName}}. If I am mistaken – you are not being directly or indirectly compensated for your edits – please state that in response to this message. Otherwise, please provide the required disclosure. In either case, do not edit further until you answer this message. Theroadislong (talk) 22:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:SmarterMail has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:SmarterMail. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 01:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterTools (November 20)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Qcne was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterTools and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

qcne (talk) 14:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

November 2024

As previously advised, your edits give the impression you have a financial stake in promoting a topic, but you have not complied with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. You were asked to cease editing until you responded by either stating that you are not being directly or indirectly compensated for your edits, or by complying with the mandatory requirements under the Wikimedia Terms of Use that you disclose your employer, client and affiliation. Again, you can post such a disclosure on your user page at User:Weasleyrian, and the template {{Paid}} can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form: {{paid|user=Weasleyrian|employer=InsertName|client=InsertName}}. Please respond before making any other edits to Wikipedia. qcne (talk) 14:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Weasleyrian You stated you were assigned the SmarterMail topic by your professor and so are not employed/affiliated with the company.

Why, then, did you also create a draft on SmarterTools? Did your professor task you with writing two (or more?) draft articles? qcne (talk) 14:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Qcne; I created the secondary page to link the first page to SmarterTools. I felt that the SmarterMail page wasn't substantial enough to merit credit for this assignment and didn't want to sound to "promotionally". In my first round I did include a snippet of information about the company, but greatly reduced the article to meet Wikipedia's requirements. As I am a student and not affiliated with the company or the product, how do I insert the unpaid disclosure? Weasleyrian (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying - I will take it on your word that you aren't affiliated with the company. When new editors write solely about a single company / their products, it rings some alarm bells, but I'm happy with your explanation and you don't need to do any further disclosure.

Onto the draft though: firstly it's really unfair your professor has assigned you this task. Writing a Wikipedia article is hard. We have specific guidance for student assignments so that students, editors, and teaching staff don't get frustated.

Looking at the SmarterTools company. In order for there to be an article, you need to prove that hte company meets our notability criteria at Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Easiest way to do this is to find at least three reliable independent sources that provide significant coverage of the company - not PR statements, not directory listings, not interviews with the CEO. In this case I imagine you'd want to find review coverage from tech journalists and in-depth reporting from business journalists.

Out of your sources, you cannot use Crunchbase (see the link for reasons why); hostsearch is just a regurgitated PR statement; and octeth is a directory listing.

Hope that helps, but do let me know if you have further questions. qcne (talk) 15:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your feedback! This helps a lot! The professor did say it was hard, but I am always up for a challenge :) I've read the notability article and very confident that the SmarterTools does merit an article so I will work on those sources. I understand it's up for deletion, so how do I prevent that?

For there SmarterMail article, is there anything I need to do? Please advise. Thank you! Weasleyrian (talk) 19:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

So, the SmarterTools article is going through something called Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion. You can de-prod if you follow the instructions on that page. The article has serious issues though (the maintenance tags on at the top of the article explain what they are), so if you do want to de-prod then please commit to improving the article.

Draft:SmarterMail has similar issues with notability (and you've also duplicated your ref list for some reason). We're looking for that significant coverage in reliable, independent, secondary sources. pcmag works as a source, but the networkworld source worries me as it's very much "SmarterTools claims xyz, SmarterTools said xyz" which means it isn't providing independent coverage.

To be honest, your easiest way forward is to merge the SmarterMail draft into the SmarterTools article, and then improving the newly merged article with some really strong sources. There's no indication that there needs to be two separate articles, one for the company and one for the product. qcne (talk) 19:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll merge both articles as you suggested. However, I have a question regarding sources. While filtering through my online search results for SmarterMail, I’ve come across a lot of reviews. However, the more substantial articles I’ve found often have subscription blocks, particularly those through EBSCO. For example, the journal article below:

• James, J. (2008). What’s Hot: Reader Review. Windows IT Pro, 14(10), 72. https://search-ebscohost-com.lopes.idm.oclc.org/login.aspx?direct=true&db=aci&AN=34618533&site=eds-live&scope=site

Similarly, I found this reference:

• SmarterMail. (2009, September 21). PC Magazine Online.

These articles have PDFs linked to the GCU/ProQuest database, but I believe I need an actual live link, correct? Could you please confirm? Thanks again for your guidance! Weasleyrian (talk) 23:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

We can accept both offline sources and paywalled sources: you just need to format the reference correctly to allow readers to find the reference, even if they have to walk to their local library to do so.

In the above examples, don't add the full URL as it's restricted to GCU students. The basic bibliographic information you provide should be enough. qcne (talk) 10:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for your reply! I do believe the SmarterMail article should be ready for review. Im not sure how long that will take. If you can, let me know if there's anything else I need to adjust. Thanks again for your help! Weasleyrian (talk) 14:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Your professor is putting you in a very difficult position, between your assigment from them and Wikipedia policies. Is your professor familiar with the Wikipedia Education Program materials? These discourage requiring article creation as an assignment. 331dot (talk) 14:49, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of SmarterTools

The article SmarterTools has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

While it may not qualify for WP:A7 (since "The company's tools are widely used across industries..." may be considered a claim of significance and might plausibly imply something that could result in notability) or WP:G11 (since it's may not be considered "exclusively promotional"), it becomes quickly apparent upon searching for sources that the company certainly fails WP:GNG/WP:NCORP. (Side note: There is a nearly identical (recently declined) draft for this company, Draft:SmarterTools, which was created by the creator of this article.)

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 15:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 21)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:SmarterMail and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 14:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I understand your concerns and want to clarify that I am not employed by or affiliated with SmarterMail in any capacity. My sole intention with this draft is to ensure it aligns with Wikipedia's guidelines, particularly regarding notability and neutrality. I’ve been collaborating with another editor, Qcne, who has provided helpful guidance on structuring the article to meet Wikipedia's standards. Based on their suggestions, I included the case study to bolster the notability section, but I am open to revising or removing it if it compromises the article's objectivity. If there are specific elements of the draft you believe could be improved to better adhere to Wikipedia's guidelines, I’m happy to make those adjustments. Weasleyrian (talk) 15:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy ping @Theroadislong qcne (talk) 15:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Promotional marketing content includes “a cost-effective alternative” “The goal was to create a reliable and accessible email software tailored for small to medium-sized businesses” “Over time, SmarterMail included additional functionalities” “SmarterMail is equipped to handle email communication and organizational tasks” “SmarterMail can be used in both on-premises setups and cloud systems. This gives organizations flexibility in how they use it” “often compared to other email servers” “positioned as a lower-cost option with compatibility for various email clients” “design emphasizes ease of use and accessibility, making it suitable for businesses without dedicated IT resources” Please re-write in a dry neutral encyclopaedic tone. Theroadislong (talk) 17:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:SmarterMail has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:SmarterMail. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 17:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:SmarterTools has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:SmarterTools. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 21:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I’ve decided to delete the SmarterTools article and focus solely on the SmarterMail article. Since SmarterTools is scheduled for deletion, I’m okay with that. Thank you for your feedback. After discussing with Qcne, I initially planned to move the SmarterTools content into the SmarterMail article, but I’ve ultimately decided to concentrate exclusively on the SmarterMail. Weasleyrian (talk) 21:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: SmarterMail (November 22)

Your recent article submission has been rejected and cannot be resubmitted. If you have further questions, you can ask at the Articles for creation help desk or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help. The reason left by Bonadea was: This topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia.

bonadea contributions talk 08:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bonadea probably worth reading the discussion above. I think a rejection might be premature, while the editor in good-faith works through the issues. qcne (talk) 10:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I had read the discussion before reviewing the draft (it would be pretty irresponsible of me not to have done that!) and don't for a second doubt that Weasleyrian is editing in good faith. --bonadea contributions talk 09:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to formally appeal the rejection of my draft on SmarterMail, as I believe the topic satisfies Wikipedia's notability requirements. During the process of writing the draft, I worked diligently to remove promotional language and ensure the content adhered to Wikipedia's guidelines. I also sought reliable sources, including academic and trade journals accessed through my university's library, while avoiding sources restricted by paywalls. The references included in the draft provide in-depth, independent coverage that supports the topic's notability. I respectfully request reconsideration of the draft for inclusion in Wikipedia. Thank you for your time and consideration. Weasleyrian (talk) 14:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Qcne: Here are the additional sources I found through my university library that I did have included in my initial draft, but removed them as I was re-writing to meet the article's criteria.

• Werner, G. (2007). Charting: fast and efficient [using third-party tools to generate charts in distributable ASP.Net applications]. Dr. Dobb’s Journal, The Institution of Engineering and Technology, 396, 42–46.
• Garretson, C. (2006). New antispam technology on the rise. Network World, 23(36), 23.
• Hoyt, D. LDAP Injection Vulnerability in SmarterMail. NCCGroup
• Huynh, T. N. D. (2010). Empirically Driven Investigation of Dependability and Security Issues in Internet-Centric Systems (Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies Dissertation, University of Alberta).
• Shanahan, D. P. (2012). Intentional Information Fragmentation in Email Management (Doctoral dissertation, Virginia Tech).

Weasleyrian (talk) 15:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

If it's helpful, here's my source assessment.

Source assessment table

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Computer Weekly News	This is a press release, so doesn't confer notability.			✘ No
networkworld	I see no indication this is a paid-for piece.			✔ Yes
pcmag	I see no indication this is a paid-for piece.			✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

qcne (talk) 14:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

^{Courtesy ping @Bonadea} qcne (talk) 14:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Here are the additional sources I found through my university library that I did have included in my initial draft, but removed them as I was re-writing to meet the article's criteria.

• Werner, G. (2007). Charting: fast and efficient [using third-party tools to generate charts in distributable ASP.Net applications]. Dr. Dobb’s Journal, The Institution of Engineering and Technology, 396, 42–46.
• Garretson, C. (2006). New antispam technology on the rise. Network World, 23(36), 23.
• Hoyt, D. LDAP Injection Vulnerability in SmarterMail. NCCGroup
• Huynh, T. N. D. (2010). Empirically Driven Investigation of Dependability and Security Issues in Internet-Centric Systems (Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies Dissertation, University of Alberta).
• Shanahan, D. P. (2012). Intentional Information Fragmentation in Email Management (Doctoral dissertation, Virginia Tech).

I was still adding these sources to my article until my article was rejected. Weasleyrian (talk) 15:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

December 2024

Please stop. If you continue to add promotional or advertising material to Wikipedia, as you did at Anti-spam techniques, you may be blocked from editing. Very ironic. Drmies (talk) 17:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to understand how this content is being interpreted as promotional or advertising. The information was sourced from a scholarly reference and presented neutrally, including mentions of other similar products to maintain balance. If there are specific aspects that need adjustment to align with Wikipedia's guidelines, I am happy to make the necessary edits. You're just trying to over exert control because you're an editor and singling me out, which is clearly against WP:HA under grounds of "hounding". Weasleyrian (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

You added what looked like spammy content to an article about anti-spam. You put that one article in there three times, and I have doubts [scirp.org/journal/faq?journalid=4 about the validity of the journal]--it's flagged on various internet sites as predatory. Also, the edit summary makes no sense. Drmies (talk) 21:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Editors are expected to treat each other with respect and civility. On this encyclopedia project, editors assume good faith while interacting with other editors, which you did not appear to do at User talk:Qcne. Here is Wikipedia's welcome page, and it is hoped that you will assume the good faith of other editors and continue to help us improve Wikipedia! Thank you very much! Theroadislong (talk) 19:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)