User talk:MaplesyrupSushi/Archive 3

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July 2023

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Dogra–Tibetan War. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Kautilya3 (talk) 00:20, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kautilya3 I reverted myself (even though the sentences I had removed were a blatant case of an editor coming to their own conclusions which are not stated explicitly in the source). And did I breach the 3R rule? No. Must an editor make a post on a talk-page to remove blatant original research? Not to my knowledge. Also, refrain from using these templates on my talk page in the future. I’ve already told you previously this year I don’t like being templated with warnings about bans by you just because you disagree with my edits. I take it as an intimidation method. ThethPunjabi (talk) 00:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I see you saying "nominally under the suzerainty" on one page and contesting "virually autonomous" on another page. How are they different? If you reinstate an edit after I said "take it to the talk page", that constitutes edit warring. Anyway, since you reverted yourself, we can call it quits. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 00:27, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kautilya3 Fair point. Cheers, ThethPunjabi (talk) 00:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

File:Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Gram Jyoti Yojana (DDUGJY) logo.png listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Gram Jyoti Yojana (DDUGJY) logo.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you.

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Salute

This editor is a
Journeyman Editor
and is entitled to display this Service Badge.

CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Thank you bro :) ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:53, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Ahmed Khan Kharal

Hi ThethPunjabi! Can you upload a new image for Rai Ahmad Khan Kharal? I would like to do, but I don't have access to any great source. Thanks in advance. Sutyarashi (talk) 06:54, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Hey! I'll try looking for one. If I come across a depiction of him, I'll be sure to upload it and include it on his page. Cheers, ThethPunjabi (talk) 06:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sutyarashi I uploaded a modern painting in the mean time. Will add a historical depiction if I ever find one. ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Replaceable non-free use File:Illustration of Dulla Bhatti, a Punjabi folk hero.jpg

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pa-0

How come? You clearly know some Punjabi words right? You're sure you're not pa-1? 178.120.71.86 (talk) 16:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, while I am possibly pa-1 in oral Punjabi, I am definitely a pa-0 in written Punjabi as I do not have a strong grasp of the Gurmukhi script. Therefore, I consider myself a pa-0 overall in Punjabi. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

POV pusher

Please have a look at this POV pusher. Pakistan didn't exist at the time of event, so should not be added. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:59, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk Sadly I am not surprised. South Asian-related articles seem to attract the worst of the lot when it comes to POV-pushing, especially in-regards to caste/nationality/etc. Thanks for reverting them. ThethPunjabi (talk) 18:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I got reverted by the IP and a new user (obviously same person) like 8 times within a few minutes now. Please keep an eye on these two [1] and [2]. Thanks and welcome . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:34, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:G5 and WP:BANREVERT

Hi ThethPunjabi, you may be aware of this already but just in case... new articles created by sock accounts with no substantial contributions from other editors can be speedy deleted and do not have to be prodded; see WP:G5 for details. And edits by such editors can be reverted per WP:BANREVERT; again see the link for details. This can help clean up after sock accounts like Khidrana Singh although be careful not to use these criteria before sockpuppetry has been confirmed by an admin or CU. And of course, use common sense for cases where it would be better to retain an sock's edit/article. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 22:41, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare Hey, thank you for this information. I will take note of this for future cases if the need arises again. Take care, ThethPunjabi (talk) 21:47, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 28

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Baba Darbara Singh, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Battle of Anandpur.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:04, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Improvement of Wiki articles

Hello @ThethPunjabi,

Thanks for appreciating the edits made to Namdhari Guru Balak Singh Wiki page. Since you have been on Wikipedia for some time and contributing actively, I request you to kindly suggest how to improve related articles. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 03:50, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 - Hello, usually I like to expand stub articles (stubs are Wikipedia articles with very little written information, even though plenty might exist in outside sources). You can expand stub articles using reliable sources. First, you probably should familiarize yourself with some of Wikipedia's basic rules, policies, and guidelines (such as reliable sources, honourifics, conduct, reverting, etc) so you can be more effective on here. Don't worry if someone reverts one of your edits, usually it's done with good-intentions in-mind. Always try to approach any content disputes through dialogue and never resort to petty insults, it will not help your cause. Let me know if you have any more specific questions I can help you out with. Happy editing! ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:55, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi: Thanks a lot for your message. I really appreciate the tone of the discussion set by you. This is very different from my initial encounter with a user on Wiki. I have taken time to see the Wikipedia policies in detail. I will be taking sources that are not biased, taking care of the 'emic' and 'etic' and the best use thereof, for expanding these articles. The use of prefix 'Namdhari Guru' does not come under MOS:Honorific. If it is only 'Guru', then one can say. Even then, recent scholarship refer to these personalities as such. Still, to avoid any contention, I am using 'Namdhari Guru' prefix as it is a comfortable situation for all. For Namdhari Sikhs, it is a mark of respect, and for others, who come to visit the page for curiosity and information, this signifies that 'amongst the sects, it is the Namdhari sect that considers him Guru'. I have referred to the Wiki 5P and MOS policies and sincerely believe that Wiki wouldn't restrict this usage, as it does not for many others, like Sikh Gurus, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa etc. There are sections in society at present as well as historical works who do not use 'Guru' prefix for Sikhs Gurus and 'Mahatma' for MK Gandhi (for reference, may kindly see Jahangirnama). But recent scholarship and general usage allow this. In the above case, use of prefix 'Namdhari Guru' is a step ahead, it shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings at all, including the believers and non-believers alike. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:05, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 So basically on Wikipedia we do not censor ourselves or step around the bush in-order to not harm religious sentiments. Please do not add "Namdhari Guru" into the article. I explained why when I reverted your inclusion of the terms: 1. The context and content of the article makes it clear they are the Guru of the Namdhari sect so including the terms is redundant, 2. "Guru" is still an honourific, even if appended to the name of the sect. The articles for the Sikh gurus use the term "Guru" before their names because this is their WP:COMMONNAME, even within scholarly sources. The same distinction does not apply to the Namdhari gurus, who are referred to by their actual names alone for the most part in scholarly sources to my knowledge. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:09, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi Then, how do you deal with the use of prefix 'Guru' for the honorable Sikh Gurus? There. also it will be evident that 'Sikhsim' is being refered to. Please see Ganda Singh et al., the Mughal sources cited do not use this prefix and take names directly. If you see recent historical scholarship or otherwise, for example, W. Owen Cole, they use the prefix 'Guru' for Sikhs Gurus and the Namdhari Gurus. Which one would you take out of these?

If you are suggesting to use the word 'Guru' only, I will comply. I thought 'Namdhari Guru' would be better. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:12, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 - The Sikh gurus are not usually referred to only by their names omitting their Guru title in most scholarly sources. Most academic sources still use the term 'Guru' before their actual names, which is why it has been accepted for the word 'Guru' to be used in those articles. Perhaps you can start a discussion on the talk-page of the Namdhari articles to see if this rule may apply to the Namdhari Gurus as well. It might, but you'd have to check a large amount of sources and see what predominates. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:15, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Sure @ThethPunjabi, I will move this discussion on the Talk Pages of the related articles and share the sources. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 - By the way, I took a glance at your profile's talk-page and it seems a lot of us experienced editors have been a bit harsh on you and didn't reply to your requests for them to explain their concerns. Sorry about that, some of us forget we were new at one point and didn't understand the quirks of Wikipedia that well. Even I sometimes forget that. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @ThethPunjabi. Really appreciate your concern. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:21, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 - The social environment can get a bit toxic on here sometimes but try not to let it discourage you. We need more dedicated editors so it would be a shame to lose a prospective new editor. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi: Yes, that true. But I have enjoyed my discussion with Abecedare (although I'm not convinced with the position he took, but he did clear some of my doubts regarding reliable sources). I think not only on Wikipedia, generally also, we should work towards improvement, without prejudice. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:29, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 - If you are able to improve articles related to the Namdharis, that would be amazing. There's only a tiny amount of dedicated editors for Sikh topics on Wikipedia. Having another person to help out would be a treat. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:31, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Sure @ThethPunjabi, I will move this discussion on the Talk Page and share the sources there. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 04:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bharatavarsh.1947 For sure, feel free to do so. It may very well lead to a change. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:21, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi I have informed the recent scholarship with respect to naming on the Talk Page: Guru Ram Singh. Kindly guide there. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 05:11, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Painting of Lehna Singh of Kalsia State.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Painting of Lehna Singh of Kalsia State.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator seven days after the file was tagged in accordance with section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Ирука¹³ 01:49, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Uncivil comment

I am sure that if you were to reconsider your action, you would understand that referring to a good faith edit as "original research", without any evidence in favour of such a characterisation, would be both uncivil and unwise. This is exactly the type of behaviour from established editors such as yourself which tends to discourage and drive away new editors.

You reverted an edit that had been made without a direct supporting citation, to the previous statement, which was also without any citation. You chose that version but without any evidence as to which one (if either) was correct, and then added insult to injury by characterising the edit as "original research". If you were genuinely interested in improving the article you could have easily confirmed which was correct by referring to a suitable authority, such as the World Sikh Organisation, as I did.

I was told by an administrator that, as a general rule, not to put too many citations in the lede. I note that the only reference of any type in the first two paragraphs is the one that I added. Should we remove the other sentences since they are also unsupported? Are they also "original research"? How can you tell?

Do have a good day won't you, my good fellow. 220.235.72.47 (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

What you did was original research by every definition of the term. You included uncited text/claims within the intro lede. It is not my responsibility to dig up citations to support your additions. Also, you are now trying to justify your poor behaviour when you resorted to personally insulting me for upholding the rules of the encyclopedia. As for my response in the revert of your edit, I wasn't rude to you at all, I cited relevent policies for you to read up on and learn from your mistake in a completely polite and civil tone. I cannot wrap my head around how you took that offensively. If your ego cannot accept any critique, then that is your issue and not my fault. As for you being a new editor, I give benefit of the doubt to all new editors. My comments weren't even close to biting a newcomer so give it a rest trying to characterize it that way. I reverted the article to the prior state, and yes, that version requires copyediting but you adding uncited text on-top of it is not helpful and deteriorates the article's veracity further. Cite your sources next time and do not add uncited claims into Wikipedia. Cheers, ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:42, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

help creating discussion using a wiki platform

I noticed you have done this before where you created AFC or RFC, something like that to start a discussion where various experienced editors commented on an issue to reach a conclusion on a dispute. Can you create one for discussion on [3]? There is a dispute and we need to reach consensus. Issues are:
We need to add these in the infobox as what we have currently in the infobox of the article, isn't an exact total of Strength on the Mughal side. "Unknowns" - Regular Army; Free force under Kamal Khan and Pir Khan; Under Jalal Khan within the fort; sizeable number of zamindars along with the shurafa of the region.
Because 400 cavalrymen, 1000 foot soldiers, and 4,000-5,000 strong special militia were brought from the villages to join the regular army as mentioned by Sagoo in her source and therefore that is not the exact total. So question is various unknowns that Sagoo and Muzzafar Alam mentioned in their book.
Other issue is the result - Sikhs clearly won the battle but the siege was raised due to urgent calls that were given more importance. But Muzzafar Alam calls it defeat but other historians do not as I have mentioned in the talk page. So either the result could be called Disputed, Inconclusive or a bullet point saying "Battle won by the Sikhs; subsequent siege failed".
Can you help creating a discussion so that a consensus can be reached? 2601:547:B05:AD5:A106:94F9:F8F7:9F97 (talk) 12:48, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Sikhism in South Africa has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Sikhism in South Africa. Thanks! Greenman (talk) 12:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Replaceable non-free use File:Modern painting of Susheel Kaur (alt. spelt as Sheel Kaur) and Banda Singh Bahadur imprisoned in Delhi along with their son, Ajay Singh.jpg

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Sikhism in South Africa has been accepted

Sikhism in South Africa, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 21% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .

Thanks again, and happy editing!

Greenman (talk) 18:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Greenman Great, thank you for reviewing and accepting it! ThethPunjabi (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello

Hello. I am wondering if you are a ThethPunjabi or is somebody new? If you same person than why did you did change your name :) 2001:569:76C8:BC00:88FA:52D7:4016:5C3B (talk) 21:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

It's me, I changed my username. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 00:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Lmao i didn't realize until now Ronnie Macroni (talk) 00:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni lol sorry for the confusion. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 00:52, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Nah its alright now i know your canadian Ronnie Macroni (talk) 00:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi

Hi. I see you rolled back my changes. I want to explain as it is not doable in the description to give much detail of what I meant. I totally agree that the article is about study, theology and relationship but the persecution and attacks carried by say 2 extremist individual or a terrorist group like Taliban is not part of this article. They belong on articles Sikhism in Pakistan, Sikhism in Germany, Sikhism in UK under a section Attack on Sikh Community. Likewise it would not be appropriate to add incidents about 1984 sikh genocide, mob attacks on Gurdwaras or even Khalistani extremists under article Hinduism and Sikhism. That is why I removed them from Islam and Sikhism and was going to add those incidents under the articles I mentioned above, Sikhism in Pakistan, Sikhism in Germany, Sikhism in UK. Hope this clears everything up. I noticed you are also great editor so wanted to commend you on that. You have brought lot of improvement to articles. Finmas (talk) 11:42, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Wrongdoing of adding a non-sikh person in a wiki article about sikhism

I find it ridiculous of seeing a non-sikh person in the article of Women in Sikhism. The historicial person in question is Ram Singh Namdhari. He is not a Sikh, but rather belonging to a sect. This is a dangerous alteration of Sikh history by adding non-Sikhs and confusing readers. A Sikh is someone who is the follower of Guru Granth Sahib and belivies it to be the last remaining Guru. A cult leader who see himself as a living Guru is not a Sikh and therefore he cannot be in an article which is about Sikhism. This is a typical infamous alteration of RSS and hindu sects agenda to infuse their propaganda to tell that sikhs are a part of hinduism or a part of a sect with hindu elements. To back up my argument, I will quote the last living Sikh guru - Guru Gobind Singh:

"Agya bhai Akal ki tabhi chalayo Panth Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le Raj karega Khalsa aqi rahei na koe Khwar hoe sabh milange bache sharan jo hoe."

Translation: "Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created. All the Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru. Consider the Guru Granth as embodiment of the Gurus. Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns. The pure shall rule, and impure will be no more, Those separated will unite and all the devotees shall be saved."

This quote state directly that no one who consider himself a Guru or following a sect can no longer be a Sikh. Therefore you have done a historical misstake by adding him back.

Another quote that has been said by Guru Gobind Singh is:

"Jab lag Khalsa rahe niara. tab lag tej dio mai sara. jab eh gahe bipran ki reet. mai na karo in ki parteet".

Translation: "So long as Khalsa retains his distinct identity, I will give him my entire radiance and strength. But if he should take on a non-Sikh way of life, then I shall have no confidence in him and withdraw my support and protection".

So I rest my case that you should never add any non-sikh persons in a an article about Sikhism otherwise your credibility is biased and questioned here! Gurresingh (talk) 08:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gurresingh - Namdharis are Sikhs, Wikipedia is not a place to espouse and push particular POVs against objective truths. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 20:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Request

”I’ll be back. And I am back” (for now)

Anyways can you add an image to the Harminder Singh Nihang page? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:23, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 I’m really glad to see you back my friend. Will do, just been a bit busy in my personal life these past couple of days. As soon as I’m free, I’ll upload a pic for him. Welcome back, MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 03:15, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Photograph of Sufi saint, Waris Ali Shah.jpg

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Photo

Hello can you change the photo on the Talwinder Singh Parmar page to a better one? Thanks in advance. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 03:50, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Lyallpur Khalsa College of Education for Women (Jalandhar) logo.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Photograph of Baba Gian Singh Nihang, also known as Gian Singh 'Sutantar', of the Budha Dal.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Painting of Heer and Ranjha.jpg

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 10:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

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Reversion of edits

Why did you revert the cited sources on the Sikhism page regarding the dasam and sarbloh Granth Dopplegangman (talk) 18:17, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Dopplegangman - You never cited your source correctly. Please cite which page of that book supports the claim that the Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth’s association with Sikhism is “debatable” or “controversial”. The authorship of these texts is debated, not them being Sikh texts. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi

How are you on this fine day Ronnie Macroni (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni - Hello my favourite article creator! I’m doing splendid. How about yourself on this fine evening? MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 22:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

very good good to know Ronnie Macroni (talk) 18:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Banner logo of the Inter-State Council (ISC) of India.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:United Sikhs official logo.jpg

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Hello can you add a photo

Hello,

Can you add a photo to an article I recently made. Sukhwinder Singh Sangha

Thanks in advance :) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 12:12, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 - Hey, nice to see you active again! I added a photograph to the article you created. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 02:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks :) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 09:18, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Citations that do not support what they are cited for

Hi MaplesyrupSushi,

When citing sources, please make sure they actually support the statement that you are citing them for. That was not the case in your edit here. (The claim that in the year 2023, a topic "remains a little research[sic] or studied interest" obviously can't be supported by a source published 35 years earlier.)

It's important that Wikipedia readers and fellow editors can rely on the relation between text and source. Edits that mislead them about this, whether by sloppiness or deliberately, are highly problematic. Regards, HaeB (talk) 06:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)