This is an archive of past discussions with User:Keeper76. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
since the world appears to have imploded after I went off line yesterday. Listening to sports radio on the way in this morning and they're talking about the All Star ballots and what not. This wasn't local sports radio so we can't blame it on NY non-knowledge but Joe Mauer's new name is apparently "Moo-er". They compared him with other Minnesota unpronouncables, including Hrbek and Chuck Knoblauch, neither of whom I found to be unpronouncable. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee12:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow... my wife is five days late now and I thought we were frustrated... what in the hell happened last night? And before anyone answers that... don't, it's just an expression, I read everything. The only thing that's made me that angry is the new Coldplay song, how lame it is, and the fact that somehow it's a number 1 hit. Oh well. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs12:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I tried to read it, and then my head exploded so I went to Starbucks. I highly suggest it. I only know one song by Coldplay, I didn't like it and its overplayed. My radio ignorance is a good thing at times, iPod on my walk from the train. That and I'm a country girl at heart and NYC lost its country station more than five years ago. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee12:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I tweaked the keeperpedia instructions - they were getting too long. p.s. "fuckshit" was epic. i'm sure you'll say that on your first really dirty diaper where you realize that baby wipes won't be effective and call for your wife to give the baby a bath. –xenocidic (talk) 13:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm diggin it. Well guys, as much as I hate to say it, I gotta go for a few, a lucky college student has to go take his rigorous summer class....fitness walking. Please, pray for me :-p DustiSPEAK!!13:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Wait, you know what else annoys me? The amount of paternity leave that American men get. Because the amount is zero. We get zero additional days for the birth of a child. Meanwhile, Tony Blair gets a few weeks off from being the leader of Britain. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs13:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Hrm, in Canada you get 1 year for parental leave and it can be split anyway you like it between the two parental units. –xenocidic (talk) 13:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I voted for Moo-er: one of the Twins' minor league teams is about 40 minutes from where I live.
OKAY, I'm gonna give this a go here. One big fat reply :-) I like the new coldplay song. Moo-er is leading the allstar balloting for catchers, no small feat for a "minor league team". His name is way easier to say than Dugmen-CAVE-itch. Gwynand, you must be going out of your mind, I feel for ya brother. The first few days' diapers are the worst, it's called Meconium and your wife will be layed up in a hosp. bed and you'll hafta dig in Warning! If you have a weak stomach or a strong gag reflex, that blue link has truly awful pictures... Dusti? A Ball State man? Somehow, that seems appropriate. Enjoy your walking. Xeno, I don't get the "fuckshit" comment or what its referring to, but thanks for fixing the header. Also, parental leave is overrated. You do realize babies cry all the freekin time right? W(hy)TH would I wanna stay home? I very much enjoyed leaving the house. (I don't mean this to sound as sexist as it probably does - my wife and equal partner enjoys leaving the house too. We are getting much better about not both leaving at the same time :-) Whew! Think I got em all. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
(reply to keep) I'm saying that i voted for him because a minor league team that he played on is 40 minutes from me. Actually, Violet Hill is probably the best song off of Viva la Shit trying to be passed on as music. Shapiros10contact meMy work14:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
And Shap, I know, I kid. I call all "small market" teams "minor league teams". For a small market team, with an inherently smaller fanbase, to get anybody to the top of the balloting is no small feat. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
(already 3x edit conflict)Hey Keep. Fuckshit was likely referring to my edit summary from earlier this morning (look in the history). Oh, and I wasn't talking about Violet Hill, but Viva la Vida, which is now the #1 song in America, and sucks. Yes, I am going out of my mind, but it seems like that is going around recently anyways :) Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Re fuckshit: see this edit summary. And, agree - F parental leave. I don't even play hookey from work anymore because I know I'll just get roped into some kindof daddy duty. –xenocidic (talk) 14:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, thats the one. It goes like this: "whoooooOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooaaaaaaaohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, waaaaaaaaOOOOOOOOOOOOOaaahhhhohhhhhhhhhhhhh". Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
LOL. Gwynand you are close to snapping :-) Wanna do your RFA now? You're just about batshit insane enough to wanna be an admin instead of a wannabe admin...:-) And that was a hilarious edit summary, just found it :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Might look bad if I disappear in the middle of it... but I'm getting closer to "might as well just do it", after recent frustrations on inability to protect certain articles or viewing deleted history. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs15:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe someone can explain this to me: why are there 3 red RFAs still running? I tried to poke around and see if they had requested they run regardless but didn't find anything. –xenocidic (talk) 15:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
When they've gotten this far, it's because they refuse to withdraw. I personally asked one to withdraw, but they weren't interested. None of the three has a chance in hell of passing, but if they insist on seeing it through to the end, that's what'll happen, I guess. Enigmamessage15:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Dear God, this really is ANI/AN/WT:RFA/VPP/AIV. Post on Keepers page, that's how you'll get prompt attention. And yes Tan, I'm feeling fiesty. I'm on the sunny side of my RFA and apparently that means I'm allowed to say or do whatever the hell I want. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Tasty! And on a serious note, don't ever ever ever ever start smoking. Quitting was one of the most ridiculously difficult things I've ever done. I miss them everyday, which is embarassing. You here me Sam and the rest of you youngin's? Don't ever start. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
IP making a death threat
I took this to ANI, but they seem to be running slow today on reading, and the actual post was made at AIV, I really kinda wish I was an Admin in this type of situation....Here's the link [1]DustiSPEAK!!15:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a dynamic IP. It will be reassigned to someone else's computer within days. That particular person is long gone, will show up somewhere else, and will get blocked again. Not much else to see here. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Request to restore deleted article for "David Crais", (the Haiku version will come later)
Dear Keeper 76,
You gave me an "A7" Deletion for 'not a notable bio' and 'real person'.
I submitted the article "David Crais" due to the fact that I have received media attention through several articles, radio reports, and television interviews I have been asked to appear on lately. While I'm not Bill Gates, or even Paris Hilton, I am somewhat of a public figure...in a tiny, tiny way.
I tried to included mulitple third party published references in my article. Of course, others can put whatever they'd like in the content. I just wanted to provide what I could, the good, bad, and ugly. It is not a self promoting piece. I just provided a bio as written by a third party.
The reference links I put in the article I just copied from a Google search (maybe some would say a 'vanity search') and listed several of articles written about me from regional and national newspapers and other publications.
Please consider this and restore the article.
Although not written in your prefered three lines and seventeen syllables, I would appreciate your consideration on this.
Regards,
DCraiss (talk) 16:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, would you take a second look at your close, please? The DMB mess has been cleaned up but the original article that was proposed for deletion, was moved to Skybox (band), and this still needs to be dealt with (I would argue that the case has been made for deletion). TerriersFan (talk) 17:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. It looked to me like the article about the band was cleaned up and referenced, and the nominator withdrew. I woulnd't have a problem with DRV though, that AFD was messy and now that everything's in the right place, the band article can be more properly discussed. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me, but why did you delete my refinement of the Caillou entry? I changed the entry regarding his father Boris from "He is silly" to "He is a buffoon" as per this definition:
buf·foon Audio Help /bəˈfun/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[buh-foon] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who amuses others by tricks, jokes, odd gestures and postures, etc.
I watch the show every day with my son, and as such am more than qualified to make this adjustment. Get off of your high horse. My definition is more accurate. Have you sat through hundreds of hours of the same Caillou footage over and over again? I think not. I'm changing it back. Learn how to use a dictionary.
Well aren't you pleasant. Let me climb down off my horse, I can barely hear you from up here... excuse me a second...ok. There! My son hates Caillou. He prefers Teletubbies, Thomas and Friends, the sprout "happy happy birthday" song and clucky chicken, and Elmo. I hate them all, they are drivel. Mind numbing. I can feel myself gittin' stupider and stupider watching them. But he loves them, and I love him...meanwhile SportCenter is getting neglected. Change it to buffoon, I don't care. It won't last long. The other definition of buffoon carries a derogatory tone, and you know it. How 'bout a compromise? Maybe not silly, definitely not buffoon. Any suggestions? Clownish? Jocular? Your thoughts? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Re
This, I'm personally satisfied that that's enough of an apology, given that Joe's happy with it.
I'm giving it 24 hours. And the irony of course being that email is what started this whole mess, I'm not about to enable it now. If Malleus accepts the "apology" and the "move forward", then I will too. Until then... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer02:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't. There was a promise made to be open to AOR. I don't trust Epbr123, and I know from personal experience how vindictive he can be. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
That's enough for me to keep on. I'm going offline in a bit here, but I'm willing to co-certify an RFC, or official recall. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer02:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd go along with SandyG's idea of "file this away but if you ever do anything like this again ...", but only if Epbr123 fulfills his promise to be open to recall. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
EPBR123 has already done enough to make me edit his archived RFa to the point of being chastised by another admin. I will also "file this away", but only if Epbr adds himself to CAT:AOR. He said he would, he hasn't. 5 freeking admins, and a slew of editors, have asked him to recall himself based on his email. If I were him, I'd be turning in my admin bit. He has proven nothing to me by his apparent apathy other than he was gunning for adminship for the sake of adminship all along, and I fully and completely regret supporting his RFA#2. I could fucking care less if he apologizes to Joe and Joe accepts it. He should not have the toolset that allows him to block/protect/delete. If any of this info came to light pre-rfa#2, there isn't a chance in a pig-flying frozen hell that he'd pass RFA. He should give up his admin bit and go back to being an editor. Sigh. I need to go offline, but I'll pick this up again in the am...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer02:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) I'll also go along with Sandy's point about "file this away but if you ever do anything like this again ...", but, like Malleus, I do think he needs to show by his words and actions, that he can be trusted, which means fulfilling his promise made during is RfA to make himself open to recall. Furthermore, I think the criteria and process adopted should be scrutinized to see whether there is a reasonable chance that any repeat of this recent behaviour could result in a successful bid to remove his tools (i.e., no overly elaborate and restrictive criteria or process.) DDStretch (talk)08:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
You may find interesting
Ohai. I just thought you would find it interesting for you to read this. I'll be on a wikibreak, so you may not get a reply for a few days. Cheers, RyRy5 (talk) 10:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Johnny Cooper American Musician article deleted
Hi,
I was going to update the Johnny Cooper aka John Robert Cooper article and the page was deleted with no notice.
I feel that I have been diligent in following various criteria.
His page was in the biography project. I had previous discussions along the way with others on Wiki and all seemed right.
Please advise me so that I can work toward restoration of the article.
Hi Sharon - Keeper will be offline for a few hours now, but I've looked over the deleted article, and can tell you why it was deleted. The problem was that it didn't show why Johnny Cooper was notable for inclusion in the encyclopedia. The question is whether you can show that Cooper was mentioned in multiple independent (i.e. nothing written by him or his associates), reliable sources. Another good notability guideline for his will be WP:MUSIC, which is more specific. If you think that you can find such sources, I am willing to return the article to you within your userspace (e.g at User:Sharonbrain2/Johnny Cooper) for you to work on, on the condition that you get one of us to look it over again before you move it into the main article space - don't move it without changes, for example, or it will probably be deleted again. Let me know what you think Fritzpoll (talk) 22:42, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good fritz, you did what I woulda done. Sorry I wasn't around Sharon. I'll follow along with the conversation, let me know if you need any assistance. One thing that I did notice before deleting is that the level of detail and language that was used suggested to me that you are perhaps a bit "close to the source" yourself, meaning I find it very likely that you know Mr. Cooper in real life. Be sure that you are not letting your personal knowledge of Cooper and his works taint the neutrality of the article. Please see also our guideline on conflict of interest, as well as our guideline on recognizing (and removing) fluffy language. Cheers, hope I can be helpful to you. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Johnny Cooper redo in process
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback and the opportunity. The Johnny Cooper article is my first full Wikipage and will raise the bar. Most of the info was from interviews with family, other musicians (one recently passed away), and various venues where he has played. I have various press & media to work from and also will follow the WP:Music info to be sure that all is noted for evidence. This past friday, most recent press from record company, Smith Records has released that his song "Texas To You" will be the season theme song for the Dallas Cowboys in the 08-09 season. Also, they noted that the Texas Rangers team is using the same song as well.
Appreciate the feedback! Baby steps.....
Cheers
Sharonbrain2 (talk) 03:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Article in process questions
I forgot to ask if I have a deadline to complete the article?
What if someone else starts a Johnny Cooper page while I am in process of rewrite?
Yeah!! I actually started a topic on this page rather than stalking everyone else's
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
OK, basically, I've been thinking about standing for RfA for quite a while, and I have asked a few people what they thought about my chances of surviving it intactpassing. Unfortunately, I still have no idea how the community would react to a candidate whose main contribution to this project is roughly 40000 Huggle reverts/warnings/aiv and whose sole major contribution to the article space is getting a barely start class article to an "almost" GA. (John Rutledge, in case you're interested)
From what I can see, you despise Huggle (or at the very least, you despise the way 99.9999....% of people are using it) Most of the people who commonly "stalk" this page also share a similar view.
I have had someone offer to nominate me in a few weeks, and I guess I just wanted to see if you think that my RfA would be:
A waste of the community's time (i.e WP:SNOW. I don't think NOTNOW would apply to me in this case, as I (should) have a pretty good idea of what is generally asked of candidates at RfA.)
A blight on my nominator's reputation
A nail-biter down to the end
A nice, quiet walk in the park (yeah right....)
To avoid the risk of TL:DR, here is my question in a nutshell:
Comment from the TPS gallery: you're definitely going to get opposes for lack of mainspace contribs. See my RFA for an example, and (with no offense intended) I think I've got much more mainspace contribs than you at the present time. you'll also get opposes for the huggle use. however, per the above, we're due for a passing RFA, so run, NOW! –xenocidic (talk) 15:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) (to Xenocidic) About the KT:RFA thing... Number one, I really don't want to base my RfA on tempting fate ;) Seriously, thought, in order to run now, I would have to nominate myself, and a self-nom from a Huggle maniac... *shudder*
Also, from what I saw in your RFA, 75% of your opposes were either for "choosing a divisive username" or for"careless CSD tagging". J.delanoygabsadds15:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Right, but there were opposes for the lack of mainspace contribs and you've admitted yours are quite low (I was just making a statement of yours compared to mine and the fact that I got opposes on it). Whether or not that will kill your RFA, I'm not sure. @dusti: not sure if you were asking me, but I'm no good at at vetting candidates - will let keeper comment. –xenocidic (talk) 15:57, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
From the TPS Gallery, I didn't have a GA and I passed. I don't use Huggle, don't think I'd heard of it until it exploded recently but I do use Twinkle -- didn't seem to hurt me. Dusti, in all honesty I'd say not at the present moment. I think you need to finish working through your AfD adoption with Keeper and work on your article building schools skills before you should consider RFA. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee16:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Agree. Things like Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/oren0, which I'm sure I don't have to rehash, really need to stop happening - mainly because things like that speak to your judgment skill set. It seems like every time you build some momentum, you shoot yourself in the foot. Tan | 39 16:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC) Afternote - I was speaking about Dusti there. I would probably support j.d. on an RfA with no problems at all. Tan | 3916:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflicts aaaaaack!!!!!) No offense to anyone here, but my talkpage is not Pre-rfa screening. "If I can pass on Keeper's page, I might have a shot" is not really a good idea, although I know you (both) mean well. Read User:Keeper76/RfA to see what to do to get a support from me and decide for yourself if your there. Also, read what not to do regarding a nom from me if that was your intention posting here. Cheers! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I just don't know if I should go for mit or not... I was not aware of your /RFA page. I'm sorry for clogging up your talk page with random posts. *sigh* J.delanoygabsadds16:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blog
You could say that your page isn't a blog, either, which really it is. And it's a good thing, a place for us all to chat and run ideas by a group of people we know and trust. You've been different lately, dude, what's up? Way shorter fuse, snappy, dismissive... Tan | 3916:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I passed my RFA, I don't hafta be nice anymore :-) Isn't that how it works? Nah, your right. Shit going on IRL, I'll be nicer. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Phew. Work's been interfering with my Wiki time - I'm in Tulsa right now, writing this sentence when I should be reviewing the binder balanced on my knees. Tan | 3916:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
You have no idea how insulting that is to me :-). And Tulsa is the Paris of Oklahoma Tan, enjoy it for its scintillating nightlife, cobblestone walks...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
And I'm not saying a damn thing, nor do I know anything about Keeper or his persoanl life. Hang in there buddy. Kek. 17:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.92.4.157 (talk)
Now now, no self-trouting allowed. Life happens. Feel free to tell us to shut up and go away, we'll mostly listen and be here when you want company again. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee18:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Gwynand...tsk. You really need to get your wife to have that baby. You do know of at least one way to speedy things up, right? Then, you can leave your trout alone....:0Oh my! Did I just type that!? Don't hit save, don't hit save..Dammit. Just hit save Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
don't worry about it. I do apologize for using your talk page to solicit comments from a wider range of people. I should have just asked your talk page stalkers on their talk pages. J.delanoygabsadds18:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
<--I have had several bizarre threads on my talkpage. Today's are just plain surreal. What a strange little section of my soon to be bloated archive this will be...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps a stocking stuffer. One can buy his own spotted dick in a can and open it whenever the spirit moves him. Seriously though, my wife and I spent a week in London a few years back. Saw the Lion King, enjoyed high tea, I liked the blood sausage (the wife passed on that) - but was never offered spotted dick. Perhaps I will get the can - it will probably be my only chance to try it. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 22:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Not less favoured, but certainly adding the pile of evidence that you are indeed insane. Just to clear something up here, because for some reason, people think I hate huggle. I don't hate huggle. I find it to be a profoundly useful and terrifying tool. I find Gurch to be a genius level editor with the patience of Job for the grief he's received. What I do hate is huggle abuse, but I also hate regular editing abuse. It needs expert oversight, and I'm glad you stepped up to it. But again, you've certified yourself to be batshit insane for doing it. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Read some of those links to archived conversations I pointed you towards. If you thought WP:GEOBOT generated "heated debate", expect to be surprised. – iridescent21:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
<-Fritz, remember the good ol' days when WP:N/CA was the most contentious and attention gathering thing on your plate? Sigh. Everyone reading this, make sure Fritz gets lots of support/backup/whiskey. Don't wanna lose him. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I can give you a serious Huggle bug right now, if you want one to be getting on with; at present, there's no way to turn off the "automatically block users" option if you're an admin (an option that personally, I don't think should exist at all). – iridescent22:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)Meh. It's only ASCII characters (or possibly Unicode in this enlightened age) on a screen - remember my cry of "it's only the internet". I see this as more of a caretaker role - I am a lot less emotionally invested in Huggle than Gurch was for obvious reasons. I will fix bugs, make amendments as necessary, and deal with complaints. If the community decide, through an RfC or some other mechanism that Huggle is inherently disruptive, I'm not going to take it as personally as I did in some cases over FritzpollBot. Thanks, however, for the inevitable whiskey as I try to do both tasks simultaneously! :) Fritzpoll (talk) 22:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
deliberately posting here rather than your talkpage or the huggle page to hopefully avoid everyone offering their 2c One thing I urged Gurch and will urge you, is don't give in to everyone who'll hassle you to remove the forced "using Huggle" from the edit summary. There really needs to be a way to tell the hugglers from the normal editors in RecentChanges. – iridescent22:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
As with many things, there has to be a good reason for a change, and I can't see a good reason for such a change will arise. Fritzpoll (talk) 22:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
As do I. Early on, before Gurch returned in April or whenever it was, I actually considered changing the code to make it advertise. That was before Huggle was widely known, so I had to field 1000's of comments asking "how the hell are you reverting so fast?" I would like to point out that since Huggle started advertising, I have not had one person ask me how I was reverting so fast. J.delanoygabsadds23:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Also contributing to the less comments --> more people know about Huggle (Gurch was back, AN was filled with threads about it, etc. etc. etc.), and now you aren't the fastest :) Calvin 1998(t-c)04:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
← And to Fritzpoll! Hope this doesn't discourage you (Huggle will die w/out you or Gurch...), but we do have a huge pile of bugs that need fixing here and some more here that don't show up on the first link. There are some pretty major ones that Gurch never got around to fixing when he was around, and a bunch he made by not testing 0.7.11 before giving it to Addshore and the rest of wiki-world... please test your versions before releasing... Calvin 1998(t-c)04:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Since I apparently cannot yet live without it, I've created a sockpuppet. Since I couldn't pretend for five edits to be someone else, I don't even try. You may also be interested in this RfCU I've filed about myself. I'm hoping that all those people will get the piled-up criticism about me out of their systems, and maybe there will be even more than just senseless bashing (although I have to admit I'm skeptical after that AN clusterfuck). So if you decide to comment there, I'd appreciate it if you did it with the valid aspects of others' criticism in mind. Everyme (was Dorftrottel) (talk) 10:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
<--Some thoughts. Dorftrottel, (I just finally got to spelling that right dammit I ain't about to switch just yet), I found it a good hoot how many of those diffs from Postlethwaite fell into four categorys: 1.Something to do with LGRdC/Kurt + RFA. 2.Something to do with your opinions on inclusionism/inclusionists/"trivia in general", 3.Something to do with Screambox that I seemed to be involved in(the irony is thick, I know), or 4.Something to do with fucking your wife/girlfriend. Many if not most are linked at RFC out of context. However, the one directed at Postlethwaite (second from bottom) you should apologize for, it is obvious to me at least that you were just lashing out. Whether that's really your opinion or not is irrelevant, it went too far. The one at Naerii (you're an asshole, not an idiot) was over the top to me as well, and even though Naerii's response said "I agree", you had no way of knowing that's how (s)he'd respond. The comments about "switching names and making it hard to track you down" are a bit of a stretch, as you've been completely open about who you are and what you're former accounts did/didn't do correctly leading to blocks. You've done nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned regarding being open v. being elusive. That claim has no merit. Even this new everyme account is linked directly to your IP/former accounts when it certainly doesn't have to be. I applaud you for your openness in that regard as I find it to be the mature thing to be. So all this to say (I won't be editing the RFC directly unless it gets too ridiculous), here's my advice, in a nutshell. WP:DEBF and WP:DEDE. Don't Edit Before Fucking, and Don't Edit During Euros. Also, for the love of God Most Holy avoid Kurt and LeGrande (and now, apparently RP). They bother you. We get it. You bother them too. It's a big wiki. You told me once before (I'll find a diff if need be) that you'd stop "responding" to them at RFA/AFD, and you've started to migrate back towards doing that I'd noticed. Let me know when you want the RFC that you started on yourself (mostly for attention perhaps?) deleted so we can all move along pleasantly and singing Kumbaya together. Oh, and I'm hoping your new account gets a userpage as topnotch as Dorftrottel's was - one of the best on here (and not just because I was quoted on it...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Ooh. Sorry for the late reply. The answer obviously is "@ everyme"... Wrt your points: As usual, I agree almost entirely with your take on things. Might I add however, that (i) I've tried establishing routine sex before editing and my stupid GF for some typical female reason keeps bitching, telling me to have a wank instead, and I keep telling her no, I need to demean a real human being for it to work and esp. to empty even the white out of my eyeballs and then she starts throwing things at me and before I know it I sit at my PC editing with semen backing up into my kidnies (I'm really glad I didn't write 'kiddies' there). (ii) Something nobody seems to notice is both the imho valid points I've made wrt Kurt's template oppose (namely, that it's part of a meta-debate which has no place in individual RfAs) and the fact that I even defended him on one occasion (when he was badgered for a different rationale). (iii) Le Grand is a problem editor. I cannot abandon that position without denying my capability of rational thinking. Something needs to be done about him sooner or later. I wish others would see the glaring problems surrounding the way he keeps senselessly fighting as much as I do (pun intended). (iv) Should I, iyo, really go bother Naeri with an apology s/he doesn't even want to hear? Why spam his/her talk page? I think the best course of action there is to just not repeat it without a very good reason or cause. Btw, I rightly figured Naeri understands that 'asshole' is far more harmless a verdict than 'idiot', coming from me. (v) Should I apologise for what I said to Ryan? How honest would that come across as? I may do so, but my spine tells me to do it only after this whole thing is over. Everyme (was Dorftrottel) (talk) 09:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
In reverse order, starting with RP. You should apologize only if its an honest apology, so if your heart's not init, a fake apology generally would just make things worse. Yeah, waiting is probably good. RP's a big boy, (and I don't mean because of his "special barnstar" on his userpage - you'll know which one I mean, it's the one that says "show" on it) he can handle a little criticism from you. Don't bother with Naerii, the worst that came of it is that you gave RP and LGRdC ammunition by using a swear. LeGrand right now, if you hadn't noticed, is getting hammered by Protonk, and tangentially Seraphim Whipp, for his "additions" to AFD. He was brought to WP:WQA by Protonk, edit warred over the title of the WQA report, and last I heard, was close to a 3rr vio. On the etiquette board, how ironic. That all at the same time as he(LGRdC) put on your rfc that the only conflict he's had at AFD was with banned users and sockpuppets. A bit of delusion mixed in to everything else. Kurt is Kurt, he won't stop. The community tried to stop him, consensus said let him be, its a dead horse. I don't have much respect for Kurt, but not for the rfa stuff as I find it harmlessly worthless. Don't bother with it anymore. Wrestling with pigs in the mud gets you dirty; the pigs simply enjoy it. And that was way way too much info about you and your girlfriend's "editing habits," but thanks for all the graffyx...Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Dude, I love you. Sorry, but I had to get a chunk of gayness out of my system before tonight (football and five-beer-homosexuality can be a fatal mix). As far as Kurt is concerned, I don't particularly mind his oppose any more, particularly because others are giving him more than enough negative feedback over it. I think he's handling it pretty cool though. When Balloonman pestered me over badgering Kurt, he even dropped a line in my defence which I highly apprectiated. Ok, I'm off now to see whom we will crush in the final. Everyme (was Dorftrottel) (talk) 18:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't watch much soccer football, but a goal in the 90th to break a tie was great fun. Excellent match all around, played more like a final then a semi. I'll be cheering for the Germans (not something I often say ...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
new section
I'm not sure why my page was deleted while I was in the middle of constructing it. I was working to learn how to cite things properly (I have Reuters articles as well as other writings of interest to the business community (Hedgeweek, Business Week), and while I did that my page was deleted. I am trying to prove notibility, but wasn't given the chance. What should I be doing so that my work isn't deleted while I am trying to be compliant? Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it! Lonbam (talk) 20:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)lonbam
What was the name of your article? I delete hundreds per day that are generally not worthy of Wikipedia entries. Yours might be, I'll concede that to you, especially if you have references. Give me a name? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving in with my girlfriend on Saturday, and we can't sort out the internet until we get there so I'll be reduced to doing it at work. What's a good template for this (the moving/no internet, not the girlfriend part)? Fritzpoll (talk) 20:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Is it just the former proofreader in me (I know, you wouldn't realise it...) that gets intensely irritated by the "Because of certain personal issues, Keeper76 will not be on Wikipedia for an indefinite period of time." template? What, so you are on Wikipedia for a finite time? – iridescent20:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
and, Indefinite is not the antonym of finite. Infinite is. Indefinite means simply "not defined". As in, I don't know W(hen)TF I'll be back. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
(to keep) Steady on! Moving in, not settling down. I'm enjoying my last few days living on my own with a variety of extremely unhealthy foods delivered by an army of men on scooters. I'll check the suggested template and get back to ya Fritzpoll (talk) 21:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, a good point. Let me amend that, wiki-style, to "not settling down just yet but in a couple of years will probably be married" - that's more accurate anyway. Can't see a particularly suitable template to use - sure I'll muddle through Fritzpoll (talk) 22:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 08:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Reply to Keeper
The other definition of buffoon carries a derogatory tone, and you know it.
Well, the "primary" and "secondary" definitions of the common word "silly" ARE no doubt derogatory, which, as an editor of an encylopedia, you should be familiar with.
Maybe not silly and definitely not buffoon?
What are you basing this on? You certainly didn't formulate your argument using a juxtapositional comparison of the actual definitions of the words in question. You clearly used something rather subjective, which is generally problematic when you are trying to convey nuanced objective meaning. While your argumention style is heavy on the rhetorical pathos, it lacks any trace of logical rigor, which is more substantial, especially when it comes to convincing the audience of a puportedly accurate encylopedia regarding word choice. Granted, calling Caillou's father "silly" rather than "a buffoon" is not the end of the world, but it is something that needs to be addressed on principle, nonetheless.
How does using a word that is wholly MORE accurate (buffoon vs. silly) and wholly LESS derogatory appear to you to be the opposite? Knee-jerk removals benefit no one.
silly---->buffoon
sil·ly /ˈsɪli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sil-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -li·er, -li·est, noun, plural -lies.
–adjective
1. weak-minded or lacking good sense; stupid or foolish: a silly writer.
2. absurd; ridiculous; irrational: a silly idea.
3. stunned; dazed: He knocked me silly.
4. Cricket. (of a fielder or the fielder's playing position) extremely close to the batsman's wicket: silly mid off.
5. Archaic. rustic; plain; homely.
6. Archaic. weak; helpless.
7. Obsolete. lowly in rank or state; humble.
–noun 8. Informal. a silly or foolish person: Don't be such a silly.
buf·foon /bəˈfun/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[buh-foon] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who amuses others by tricks, jokes, odd gestures and postures, etc.
2. a person given to coarse or undignified joking.
or
buf·foon Audio Help (bə-fōōn') Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A clown; a jester: a court buffoon.2. A person given to clowning and joking.3. A ludicrous or bumbling person; a fool.
Now you tell me which is more derogatory and which is more appropriate to the character Boris. Note that the tertiary definition of the SECOND listed entry for "buffoon" is the only remotely derogatory one, whereas the primary and secondary definitions for the word "silly" are of a markedly more derogatory and inappropriate nature. I think my argument has been more than cogent. Based on the supplied arguments and knowledge of the character, Boris is CLEARLY a "buffoon", and is comparatively less "jocular" and even less so "silly".
BTW - Boasting about liking spectator sports while simultaneously deriding a child's television viewing choices is unnecessary and somewhat pathetic. No offense.
To Kek - I agree, if the defiitions were accurate. Any teacher worth her salt would make sure that her students understood the formal definitions of proposed word usage prior to actual usage(especially in a publicly-oriented educational setting), over perceived definition and its subsequent usage and the repercussions of said usage.
Thanks,
Nick Myers
source: www.dictionary.com
25 June 2008, Sound Beach, NY
Wow, Nick. Did you really just type that much tripe on my talkpage about a one word difference in one article out of 2.5 million? Good God man. Time to move along. Sigh, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Keeper, funny stuff (Kek here). This reminds me of the teaching/parenting advice that you don't say "Tommy is a bad boy" but rather "Tommy did a bad thing." Separate the action from the person - the same way we never personally attack others here :) Anyway, at least to soften it - how about "so and so is buffoon-like." Or to follow my own advice, "behaves in a buffoon-like way." Just a thought. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 21:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC) ps...you still don't miss the classroom?
Well hey there Kek! How've you been? (and no, I don't miss the classroom, even though I'd be on summer vacay right now... :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Keeper - it's good here in PA - hope you get out on your brother's boat this summer. My all-time favorite is still Bugs Bunny (and the Warner Bros crowd); better than the Disney characters - I mean who's funnier Daffy Duck or Donald Duck? No contest. And the new stuff - I really don't get at all - seems so bland. So "safe." 72.92.4.157 (talk) 21:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
A cartoon isn't a cartoon unless someone is getting an anvil to the face. I agree. Too bland, too safe. Everyone explicitly does not love everyone else in the real world, but heck are cartoons say they do. Cartoon characters should be hunting wabbits, not hugging. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah and sending away to the ACME Company for large devices to catch the roadrunner. And there is actually a possibility that the roadrunner may get injured. Oh my. Could the children stand it? We survived the 3 Stooges without smashing each other on the head - well at least not lethally. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 22:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
"Caillou - A 4-year-old boy who throughout the series is fascinated by the world around him and guided through it by friends and family." - You've got to be shitting me. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs22:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Family Guy is friggin sweet. Go Quohog. Simpsons is lame (he said in danger of a massive flame war...). Kek, you should get another username instead of IP. Our "history" is bygones. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
You're right I should get a new username. Simpson's lame? It is getting a little long in the tooth but groudbreaking in its day - no? 72.92.4.157 (talk) 22:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Let me know when you do get a new name. And early Simpsons=genius, agreed. The Monorail episode is by far the best, and the one where U2 performs (Homer is a garbage man in it I think...) It needs to die though. The movie sealed the coffin for me. Horrible. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I will let you know my new username. And agreed the Simpson's movie was a mistake - unlike the South Park movie with the great song at the end "Blame Canada" - no offense to our friendly neighbors to the north. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 23:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I love that show and can't believe they get away with it all - hence the special warning at the beginning - which tells me to pay special attention - something good is coming. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 22:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Tis a shame. Wanker means different things in different places....and I'm pretty sure that's twice this week that you've talked about wanking on my talk page...hmmm...first it was the links to naughty pix, now wanker references. Starting to wonder 'bout you Iridescent...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
That's a good one - also like the one when where Homer gets really sick from trying to finish a really old sandwhich. Family Guy has to be coming your way eventually. "Family Guy was canceled once in 2000, and again in 2002, but strong DVD sales and the large viewership of reruns on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim convinced Fox to resume the show in 2005. It is the first canceled show to be resurrected based on DVD sales and the only one to be resurrected twice on that basis." The creator of Family Guy, Seth MacFarlane almost died on 9/11 but just missed his plane. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 23:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
We get it here as well, but I've never seen it. I'm odd when it comes to TV -- people obsessed over Seinfeld and Friends and I just didn't get it. I watch YES which is the Yankees' channel, Game Show Network and a channel that picks up Fujisankei Variety which I miss from Japan. And yes we get ~900 channels and I watch those plus the main CBS/NBC etc. I'm a poor pop culture specimen. I have Pepsi Points from Amazon and free mp3s -- no idea what to do with them. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee23:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
For you British folks - are you familiar with a comedy show "William & Mary"? It was recommended to me and is available here in US via Netflix. Also there is Canadian show called "Trailer Park Boys" (I think) - any Canadians recommend that one? I heard of that through a friend. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 00:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Mental note to view these later Keeper. I sometimes have nightmares about what Peter did to Yogi Bear on one episode of Family Guy [6]. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 00:37, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Sigh...another link I can't see. If Keeper ever disappears, it's because corporate finally caught on that Wikipedia is as bad/worse than youtube, etal...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:38, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I don't know. It appears my choice was the first time a certain "V" word was ever used in a film. Who would have thought Uncle Walt was so salty? Ecoleetage (talk) 00:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(to kek)You're kinda creepin' me out with the things you know/remember about me. I'm going home soon...no, haven't been on my bro's boat yet, and no I don't miss the classroom...Anything else? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I'll try and work on that dementia. I get cranky too at the end of the work day - more of a morning person. Up at 5:30 a.m. everyday. I won't mind if you remember that. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 01:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The irony of course is that I'm not cranky ATM. Perfectly cheerful. I was however very cranky yesterday, and this morning. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 01:07, 25 June 2008 (UTC
We discussed boating because you live in the land of 10,000 lakes and I grew up in a boating family; and my mother and sister were both teachers at one time so I guess that's why I remember that - who knows - I remember some shit and forget other shit. I don't work for the Feds - promise. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 01:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC) (now about that 2006 tax return.......)
LOL! If you only knew what I just got in the mail from the IRS regarding my '06 return. One of the joys of being a business owner/CEO is that little letter that says I underpaid by 14 grand in '06. My accountant is on unpaid overtime ATM. (and now you have something else for your memory bank... :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that's a trip. Sorry to hear it. That really sucks. Maybe time for new CPA? Hey, if you're the boss, you can enable YouTube - but just on YOUR PC. So you were just kidding about possibly losing access to Wiki. That's cool. Don't blow your cover. I sometimes wonder how people can spend so much time on Wiki during the day. I'm self employed too. 72.92.4.157 (talk) 01:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Nah, I've got an excellent accountant. He's a New Yorker (props to TCari here, for some reason, New Yorkers seem to make good accountants!....) And don't worry 'bout my cover. I've left enough dusty trails to throw anyone off. Heck, I'm perty sure I don't even have a brother, let alone a brother with a boat or do I??? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
OK! Here are my answers. 1. I'm gonna block people. 2. I'm a top 5 editor to Keeperpedia. 3. I'm never wrong in any argument. OK lets go, lets get about 7 or 8 nominations first though, at least 2 of them crats. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs00:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll add a stern warning on the top that if anyone opposes it will result in an indef block and accusations of canvassing, socking, and all around no-goodedness. Your wife not popped yet, aye? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:37, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of inappropriate images, I found this image to convey my feelings to someone my age flirting with LaraLove. This guy "blew chunks of his own"!
I was also struck by the pattern, and came to the Keeper Cooler to discuss it, but I discovered that someone had already brought it up! Enigmamessage02:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Have you seen it now? There's either a spate of really less qualified candidates or something is up. I don't think I've ever seen that many borderline at a go. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee15:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Just thought I'd drop in...
Wow. So, hi everyone Keeper. This feels a little different to the lasttime we talked. Wonder what's changed... it's definitely not the number of people now watching this page ;). The drama here seems to be hitting a fairly high point at the moment, so I've been taking a back seat and doing stuff I actually enjoy. This is something I've involved myself in, as well as some photo work, which is actually pretty good. In case you haven't seen it (and why would you?) Para has a simply fantastic tool for overlaying coordinates onto Google Maps from any category or article - the results of London are very cool. Well, that'll do. It was a diversion for me, and hopefully for you and anyone (everyone?) else reading this. Hope you're all good, and still ticking along. All the best, Alex Muller12:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Mr. Muller! Good to see you enjoying the place! Excellent gnome work with the coordinates and photos, and excellent work writing! I'm very impressed! The dramaMamas have been out in full force lately - must be the hot weather in the Northern hemi, no school, etc. Good to see that some encylcopedia is still being builded. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
School just finished for me this morning, forever... now I'm thinking about how I want to shake some people from this hellish website hard and give them a good slap ;). Oh, and thanks Cari - the funny story there is that I walked past the place three times looking for a photo because the article wasn't clear that the building had been merged... stupid me. Alex Muller15:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Your talkpage is batshit insane! I do quite a bit of CSD deleting, I don't get nearly as many "complaints" as you do from n00bs and their band members. Sigh. I trust that you'll keep your cool. Maybe make your read this a bit bigger on the top? I don't get why you get so many haikus/requests. I rarely get any, and we're both deleting the same level of crapcity articles... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
:-p deleted history. I can deal with the band stuff. I didn't want to look at it in the revisions. At least this one is explainable as probably a sock of someone. Last night.. no idea. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee20:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
This looks like a great place to drop a random comment. What's with people not capitalizing their last names in the (A7) article title? Or both their names? "Barry smith". "Michael jones". I mean, who doesn't always capitalize their last names? And this happens way more often than I would expect. Tan | 3920:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
The IRC generation; used to typing at ultra-high speed in all-lower-case. I'd lay good money that the initial capital letter is only added by the MediaWiki software. – iridescent20:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
That, I can see; because sports commentators usually only go on last names ("and Torres scores!"), someone wanting to look up the athlete they're watching on TV could quite plausibly use the surname as the search term. – iridescent20:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
←Maybe he's only generally known by the single name? Somesportsmenare (clutching at straws here, I know). Re your other question which I only just noticed; removed Xp's Huggle from him and warned Kodster for abusing AWB, both on the same day; all their friends then turned up to offer their full-and-frank opinions and never really went away. I then made the fatal mistake of talking Metros out of indefblocking, which might have been totally against the principles of Wikipedia but would certainly have made life easier. If you mean BG7, I know him from WP:LT, which for such a small project sure attracts a staggering number of loons; check out the insane argument on their talkpage over whether or is a better illustration for "ferry". – iridescent20:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh dear moo that's insane. I like museum geeks, we're not nearly that obsessive. Will have to remember you work on London articles in case I have location issues like I had on one I was working on. These are times I don't miss teaching. I was watching your talk page for a bit when we were having a couple of conversations but I had to take it off. It went insane on me. The drama hurt. And that's what the sad thing about the cabal, etc. They shot themselves in the foot and inadvertently proved those on the other side right. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee21:03, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
At least you missed the real drama, on their own talkpages. This and this version of Xp's talkpage could serve as exhibits in a "how not to calm a situation" textbook. And this conversation was just plain surreal. – iridescent21:15, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow that's just...I still don't call it ageism but rather clearly shown (lack of) maturity. You get a gold star for dealing with that and not thwapping people. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee21:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, but they have a response to it. Have you seen the insane discussion at WT:RFA? Malleus arguing with three particularly immature young children reminds me of nothing so much as a bear being baited by three extremely yappy terriers. – iridescent21:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
If anything, they're all turning out to be remarkably adept at proving the "ageists" right. Tan | 3922:03, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
And like all bears, not one of the most patient inhabitants of our planet. I didn't mind the discussion, if you could call it that, it was that absurd "who won" crap that finished me off. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
and in the end it accomplished what? Tempers flared, people got frustrated and...I agree with MF, no one "wins" here, it's just a headache for all. I skimmed the discussion at WT:RFA because it really didn't add anything new. I dread the next RFA where someone raises age concerns, especially if it's a candidate who was uninvolved in or unaware of this recent mess. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee15:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yea, I'm ok. A very good friend of mine :-) came over today and we spent the day together. I'll be on later tonight and get the next round done. DustiSPEAK!!21:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm all caught up. :) 9 wins in a row, including 4 games in a row against 4 cy young award pitchers (Maddux, Big Unit, Peavy, and I don't remember the other, Brandon Webb maybe?). My boys are hot hothot!! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
This article was speedy deleted by you saying it was an advertisement. Actually the original article was deleted 2 days back which was created by some newbie. I later rewrote it yesterday. This is not the first time I have written a new article. As you can see, I have few DYKs to my credit. Also, as a daily nominator to CSD, I do certainly understand what is encyclopedic and what is a Template:db-spam. I am not writing this all to boast about myself. I just want you to review the deleted article once more and point out which line was written like an advertisement. I agree it is a stub, but surely not an advertisement. --gppande«talk»07:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi there gppande, thanks for the note. I reviewed the article that I deleted, and have to say, I think it needs more to be recreated. Not that you didn't put any effort into it (and I agree your version was much improved), the article contained absolutely zero references besides to its own website. While that verifies they exist, we need of course references that show how it is notable as a company. Would you like me to userfy you a copy so you can continue to work without it being tagged so quickly? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, just put on User:Gppande/Sandbox and I will work on it. I know very little of the company myself - just know that it is a big IT company - 11th as per NASSCOM as had mentioned in article. But I would put some third party links too. Thanks! --gppande«talk»15:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I came here--at 4 AM--because I wanted you to see this--and then I found that YOU GOT ONE TOO!!!! Oh man. I am past the point of speechlessness at the....OMFG, really, seriously. Um, excuse me.... ENGLISH TEACHER, remember??? lololoFECKINGLOL...I know, I know, I'm typing like a 14-yr-old textmessaging emo-kid but I am SO gobsmacked by this whole line of discussion/whackingly-big SNOTFEST that I've momentarily regressed 24 yrs.Gladys J Cortez09:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Heh. Oh, yeah. that guy. What a silly person buffoon. Heh. I still blame you for getting that creepy little bald kid added to my watchlist...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I have a very very strong WP:POV in regards to the "northstar corridor" specifically the addition of a monorail, and their effects on my personal and business taxes vs. it's economic value. My basic view is that I just paid a lot of money for someone else's bus pass. So, no, probably not. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Oops - sorry to nip your conversation in the bud ;-) Actually, RFRBot is down at present, so all RFRs have to be archived manually. It's a pain, but hopefully something will be sorted out soon. — Tivedshambo (t/c)18:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I was surprised to see you jump in on comparing the Arbitration Committee to Nazis. I'm not really sure what you meant by this: "User:Keeper76. In all fairness to the Nazi's, they at least got to have defense lawyers at their trials, or at the very least, knew the trial was in fact happening." Think you can clarify this remark? Normally I expect far more temperate comments from you, so maybe I am misunderstanding or perhaps the gravity of comparing any group of people to Nazis is something you hadn't really considered (even though, I'll grant, it seems to happen a lot on Wikipedia). Avruch19:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Avruch. I wasn't comparing Arbcom to Nazi's, you're misreading that. I'm very familiar with Godwin's law as well :-). What I was simply commenting on is that when someone is accused of something, no matter how egregious, obvious, heinous, or otherwise, IRL, they are offered the chance to explain themselves and provide a defense. The Nazi's, the world's worst war criminals and mass murderers in modern history, were allowed if alive at their trials to speak and be defended. So was Saddam Hussein, and Jeffry Dahlmer, and every murderer, rapist, traitor - in a civilized society its just what we do. I'm not calling Arbcom anything Nazi. I was saying simply that they've done something ("to minimize drama" is their reasoning - ha!) to OM that was not even done to the Nazi's. Extreme example yes. RL vs Wiki-world notwithstanding, I'm rather ashamed of Arbcomm at the moment for acting this way, and overly defending their actions as somehow not cowardly (why haven't any of them, these elected arbitrators, even put their names on it?) Shameful. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I guess it was just confusing in context - not far above what you wrote, OrangeMarlin did explicitly compare this case (and, by extension, the committee) to Nazis. I assumed you were commenting in that same vein. Thanks for explaining.
On the underlying issue... The comparisons that people are making to real world judicial systems are, I think, ill considered. Not just in the area of whether we have "rights" as such to due process, etc. on Wikipedia - but also because, unlike the real world, we have a permanent and clear record of evidence all contained in one easily accessible website. The "evidence" therefore is open to much less interpretation, and finding it is as easy as scrolling through someones contribution log. Similarly, the policies at issue in this case are relatively clear and the violations (in the opinion of the Arbitration Committee, anyway) obvious. I wonder what appreciable difference an open process with a vigorous back and forth might have made in this particular case?
Perhaps the judicial "seeming" of arbitration, and the (often justified) American concern about judicial fairness and government transparency, leads to folks placing too much weight on the forms to be observed on Wikipedia. My guess is that the AC considered the parts of the process they skipped (i.e. the forms not observed) irrelevant to the outcome - in that sense, while I wouldn't advocate summary judgment in all cases, I don't think it was a mistake in this case.
Lastly - an important point made on the case talkpage is that the actual result of this case was quite minimal in direct impact - a civility parole for one editor, which neither effects him in real life nor unduly restricts him on Wikipedia. Avruch19:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Temper that with the real possibility that my view in this situation is unduly influenced by recent events. Avruch20:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
The long post is in regards to your long post, this short post of yours is what I edit conflicted with. I'm not aware of which recent events you are talking about, your RFA? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with you in some sense about the American skew of "judicial fairness", and I've tried to avoid that type of language outside of analogy. OM didn't have a "right" to defend himself, but he should've had a "fair opportunity". Not because it would necessarily change the outcome, but because, well, he just should've. If I had ventured into a community-opened arbcase against Orangemarlin (I likely wouldn't as I tend to avoid arb, haven't been a party to one yet or felt strongly the need to comment in one), I would have supported a civility sanction against him. He has been uncivil in enough circles, against enough editors, to warrant the closer look that he received. But the way this was handled behind closed doors, with not even a wink of warning to OM, or ON for that matter, until the orange message bar pops on his talkpage saying "it's already done, and you're sanctioned" is frankly very anti-wiki. I detest email communication for wiki-matters, I detest IRC and blogging for the same reasons. I don't even have email enabled, I've never once been on IRC. I understand quite frankly why some sensitive things need to be discussed in private, I don't have a problem with that. This wasn't one of those situations, and the only argument I've heard to the contrary is (loose quote) "because of the nature of the editor, who would just argue and throw up smoke screens, we decided to open and shut this case without him". Really? How is that not completely wrong? (loose)"We've decided your guilty, we've decided you'll be angry and try to defend yourself, therefore we've decided to do this without you, and we've decided to only tell you once the case is closed, and we'll announce it to the world on-wiki". How can anyone support that? These are community elected arbitrators, here to arbitrate disputes between community members, not go out searching for problems. I'm not defending OM's actions, nor denying the charges against him. I've told him off myself on his very own talkpage and in other places. He's uncivil when backed into a corner, he's offensive and dismissive at times. And he makes featured articles and is dedicated to keeping clean some articles that are high profile, contentious, controversial. His topics that he chooses to edit are also highly intellectual, needing a high-lvel educated adult mind to edit and defend them properly. He got pissed (in the American sense) to much, got too emotional about the content. He deserves a sanction perhaps, or a mentor/civility patrol or whatever the outcome was. But he deserves an opportunity to at least present a case to explain his actions. It's not a trial, you're correct. It's not a democracy here, nor a dictatorship. No due process, no inherent rights, also fine. Arbcom aren't Nazi's, I agree. This "arbitrary" action sets off every single "fairness and justice bone" in my body though, that someone can be dragged to the curb this way. How embarassing for him! Regardless of how guilty you are, and he very well may be, in a civilized society (I consider Wikipedia both civilized and a society), you don't drag the offender out in public with no clothes on and say "everyone point." You just don't. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I haven't followed this case, but if the facts are as you present them—and I've no reason to suppose that they're not—I too find this quite shocking. Who's next? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Certainly does. (and I saw your quickly retracted post...tee!) I'm going home now. I'm all done here. I'm very interested in FT2's response to Kirill's. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Holy fuck-a-bucket, it sure does. Who's got the popcorn? (PS--Keeps, THIS is why I want nuffin-but-nuffin to do with adminship. Until the revolution comes, at least--which, after this incomprefuckinghensifuckingbility, might be WAY sooner than later.) Gladys J Cortez01:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't know which is my favorite the holy fuck-a-bucket, or the incomprefuckinghensifuckingbility. Both spot on. :-) I've stopped posting there. Wanna see some thick irony? 1. FT2 claims that everything was done in secret to avoid drama. Check! That worked </sarcasm>. 2. Everyone is now claiming that FT2 deserves a fair chance to explain his actions, exactly what he and (presumably) others did not give Orangemarlin. Laughable, if not completely disgraceful. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeper, I need some help (though some help from any of Keeper's talkpage-stalkers who are sysops would also be appreciated - 'tis kinda like a second ANI here ;P). I, and a number of other editors have been having a lot of trouble with User:Fasach Nua. There was initially a discussion here, on AN, and now the discussion has continued over at ANI. Take a good look at everything cited in both those conversations - this is one of those times when individually, each action is not criminal, but alltogether, the behaviour is very disruptive. There seems to be a number of editors who agree with me - in fact, there don't appear to be any that disagree in either conversation, except of course FN himself. I'm kinda reaching the end of my teather here, and nothing is being done about it. I could of course block him myself, but I've already given him a 24 hour block (which did nothing), and he harked on quite a bit for my blocking him when I was involved. He may have had a point, but no one else was stepping forward. Regardless, nor can I warn him, as he just turns around and calls me a troll. He's just called me a troll for the umpteenth time. Something needs to be done; my hands are tied; nothing is coming of the ANI discussion (I had to pull it out of the archive, for flip's sake) - please help :-/. TalkIslander12:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh wow, Islander, what a mess. (I mean my talkpage). I promise I'll try to take a looksee over this on Monday, I'm only online for about an hour or two this weekend. In the meantime, my only advice is to WP:RBI this guy (EXCEPT NOT THE "B"). Revert, and ignore. Let him call you a troll all he wants, you can take it. You're an admin. He's only burying himself by attacking, he can't hurt you. If he starts attacking others, protect them as an admin should, but also make sure no one attacks him back. Again, let him bury himself in the evidence. Without reform (and without clicking on a single diff anywhere that you linkitrailed me to), he'll be a distant memory soon enough. They all are. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Endlessdan
Does his behavior concern you, yet? It does me. It looks repeatedly trollish, and I see no evidence of improvement despite repeated blocks. Once again I feel he lacks the fundamental maturity that Wikipedia requires. Friday(talk)19:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Totally agree. The edit summary on this edit is concerning as hell. I would give a final warning against disruptive editing, and block indef at the first hint of this sort of crap. Tan | 3919:16, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Meh, just look at the edit summaries issued here, here, here, and abuse of rollback here. It may be minor, but this user used rollback here and never issued a warning. This user just seems troublesome to me. -- RyRy5 (talk) 21:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I've been kind of offhandedly watching Dan for quite a while, and I seem to remember an AN or ANI post about him recently. I would support issuing a final warning, as I really don't think that he is going to change. J.delanoygabsadds23:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid that I'm just not getting this at all. Concerning as hell? And I frankly do not appreciate RyRy5's efforts to pour petrol on the fire by trawling through and plucking out a few arguably dodgey edit summaries as evidence that a user is troublesome. Not issuing a warning after rollback to an IP editor with a red-linked talk page seems perfectly logical to me; I often don't myself. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I can see both sides of this coin; Malleus, I don't think those are terribly awful edit summaries either (most of the "worst" ones being either song lyrics or movie quotes) and their selection does seem a little cherry-picker-ish to me as well. Having said that, though, if the user in question has a block log for similar transgressions in the past...well, that does seem to indicate that they're not 100% "getting it" as to the reasons for their blocks. If someone blocks you for something, the best way to handle it is not to do that something again. If that basic bit of pureed logic is too chunky for EDan to absorb, then maybe he needs to go elsewhere. (Is there a GerberPedia??) And Malleus, one point where I have to disagree with you is the not-warning-the-redlinked-IP. When I see that an IP has been reverted for vandalism, and no warning has been issued, I'll often drop a note to the reverter asking them to please, PLEASE warn. I've had waaaay too many blatant vandalism cases punted from the AIV queue for "insufficient warnings" when the only thing between the vandal and the block were a couple of ungiven warnings. To me, that's wrong on several levels--especially because it makes the AIV reporter look as though --they're-- the one in the wrong, picking on the poor wittle IP, when really we're only guilty of checking the edit history and noticing a pattern. Anyway, I think a reasonable note to EDan should be enough for the moment, reminding him that he's still occasionally doing the sort of thing that got him blocked before--and go from there.Gladys J Cortez03:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I take your point about issuing warnings to redlinked IPs, but I was thinking specifically of isolated incidents of vandalism, not where there is a recent history or pattern of vandalism. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
If my UserPage had a rear bumper, it would have a bumpersticker that said "Leave Dan Alone". He's harmless, except when he's not. He doesn't need to "go elsewhere", he's welcome on any Wikipedia that I'm involved in as I find him refreshingly human and rather hilarious. That said Dan, stop doing the sort of thing that got you blocked (egads, six months ago was it?). Easy up on the song lyrics, they seem to be misunderstood. Dont' call other people douches,etc. Once the MFD is closed on your subpage, if it is decided that it should be kept, please let me speedy delete it per your request. Life's too short - render unto Caesar and all that...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I care more what happened a few days ago than six months ago. As you can see from his latest userpage spiel, "When a motherfucker is intentionally stepping on my toes, they better expect to get their foot cut off." You may consider this harmless, human, and funny, but it seems clear he still thinks Wikipedia is here for him to play tough guy. I suppose there's nothing to be done until he acts up again, but I have zero confidence he's learned anything. I can't fathom how a reasonable editor as yourself could consider this proper behavior for a collaborative project. He thinks he's being viewed unfairly, when in reality he's probably already been cut more slack than was warranted. I'm concerned that your defense of him is contributing to his "the problem is everyone but me" mindset. If he doesn't change his approach, it seems quite unlikely he'll be allowed to continue editing here. Friday(talk)16:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I've asked him to refrain from attacking/language. His contributions as a positive collaborator far outweigh his "detractions". In some ways, he is being viewed unfairly, but I can see how some of his edits, particularly his edit summaries, can be misleading at best, insulting more likely. Cool off, Dan (I know you're reading this). Fight what's worth fighting. Calling anyone a motherfucker (you explicitly didn't, you were speaking more generally in this case) should get you blocked. Using song lyrics in your edit summaries should not get you blocked, but some of the borderline ones are being misinterpretted. Lay off em. Have some Cuban food, go get laid or something, and then work at PW positively, which you usually do. I'd hate to see you dragged through some formal bureaucratic BS before you can BS about football season 08-09. Thanks for your thoughts on this Friday. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:36, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought it would be for the best to start an ANI thread, as it seems like the warnings from other users appear to be going no where. I don't want it to reflect bad on me, because I'm only doing what I think is right. Sorry if it seems like that. D.M.N. (talk) 18:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
He was blocked. His usersubpage was mfd'd 6 minutes later by the blocking admin, where he couldn't respond/defend it. Would you be pissed off? I would be. "Warnings" are not going no where. Dan has had conversations with me, and Friday. He's closely watched. There is a reason that WP:DRAMA links where it does. Your post was unnecessary, inflammatory, and in mind my at least, is reflecting badly on you. I recommend retracting it until E-dan does something post-block. Blocks aren't punishment, and neither are ANI posts. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Both. Forget about it, my mistake. Looking back, I jumped the gun. If he continues to be incivil, then I guess would be the time to take to ANI if he's unwilling to get into discussion. D.M.N. (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Just FYI, I (shamelessly) robbed this thing and now you can just type {{subst:rfr/granted|Acalamari}} (the optional paramater doesn't need to be used, if it is, it will provide the appropriate "my talk page" link.) –xenocidic (talk) 16:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I hate to do this to you...
Resolved
But saw that you dealt with 7deadlysins before, I think that's right... would you (or one of the stalkers who knows what's going on with something like "Genius'" sockpuppeteering) have a look at User talk:Iamthe7DeadlySins. Cheers, Alex Muller15:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Nice, thanks guys... this is like ANI but with none of the drama (sorry Keeper... :p). I'm so tempted to slap a {{resolved}} on the top of this. Alex Muller19:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Dusti, you should volunteer as a reporter for Radio Wikipedia so we don't miss out on a second of Cari's exploits! Enigmamessage05:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind looking over my new attempt at a page for Marble Bar Asset Management? I'v started it in my sandbox, as you recommended. I would really appreciate any advice you might have before I start making larger changes.
Thank you! Lonbam (talk) 21:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)lonbam (6/30/08)
Thank you! Your advice is really helpful. I'm going to work on this page more today, and hopefully then it will be ready to go mainstream. 71.166.163.108 (talk) 13:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)lonbam
Better than a sitenotice
Since your a level head, I wanted to get your feelings on an essay I wrote about the arbcom at User:MBisanz/Arbcom and well spamming to this page is more effective than a sitenotice/ANI/watchlist notice put together :) MBisanztalk21:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
On first read (and ignoring the typos - hee! :-), I like it. Here's where you'll find problems from the community: It further fractionalizes Arbcom, probably making it even slower than it already is - likely the opposite effect as you were hoping for. Each of the "individual responsibilities" would eventually become "titles" in and of themselves, leading to further dilution (delusion?) of what Arbcom is and what Arbcom does, and finally, it basically is asking Arbcom to self-govern and self-regulate. The "Internal Investigations Unit" of the police department is still paid by the police department. What arbcom needs is community oversight, not "self-oversight", and more importantly community transparency (not in the sense of divulging personal or sensitive info, etc, but in the sense of "we should know what the fuck their doing, excuse my language). Those are my initial thoughts anyway. It's obvious to me that you know more about the structures/strictures of law/court. My final thought (and I was mildly chastised a few rows up on this very page) We shouldn't "over-judiciary-ify" Arbcom. They're not a court, they're not a legal system, they are human beings and volunteers like the rest of us that get a lot of grief and only the hardesthead cases to deal with. They screw up. They've screwed up big time this week, either as a unit or as separate individuals. Screwed up to the point of loss of confidence in their elected positions (right now, I can't think of one arbitor that I would support for "re-election" in December, at least until they all put their stamp on the secret trial) I'm rambling now, been online too long. Thanks for posting here, MB - Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
MBisanz, you aren't kidding about this page being better than a site-notice. According to stats.grok.se, this talk page has more that one tenth as many pageviews in June as ANI does. J.delanoygabsadds23:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
On balance, if I were you I'd go for evil laugh. Hell, thinking about about ANI is such a depressing place that I'd definitely go for evil laugh. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) surprise, surprise... (to Keeper) Well, considering that you have more than one-tenth the page views of ANI and yet the mere aura of your presence (read: The fact that anything here will generate a yellow bar; thus it will be read by a banhammer-wielding maniacpsycopat...oh, no... Here it comes... [closes eyes and clenches teeth]) has kept the drama level to far less than 1% of the level on ANI, I think that the evil laugh would be far more appropriate. ;) J.delanoygabsadds23:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thanks J.D. (I think). I can't stop crying right now. It's very out of character for me, but reading the post by Jeffpw below, and reading his talkpage, has brought up some strong emotions from a grief long past that have taken me over. May you never ever experience what he is experiencing right now...I'm going offline until tomorrow. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Whoa, holy crap. I'm truly sorry for attempting humor here. I wish I had actually read that post when it came up with the e/c screen. Again, I'm really sorry. J.delanoygabsadds00:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
(Undent)I saw the header of this section and the one immediately following and immediately worried you were leaving. This is not ANI, it's KNB (Keeper Notice Board)! TravellingCarithe Busy Bee01:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you from the bottom of my heart
Thank you for your beautiful message, which gave me just enough courage to turn the lights off and go to sleep (after 50mg Valium that must be possible), There is a special place in Heaven for people like you, weho take the time to help a stranger in extreme need. God bless you. Your kindness will never be forgotten. Jeffpw (talk) 23:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad I could help you in some trivial and small way. Be well. Be sure to eat something now and then (you won't feel like it), and be sure to sleep when you can (you won't feel like it). Isaac would want nothing less from you than to continue to let your heart beat and let your lungs breathe, and let your feet move and, eventually, let your soul sing once again. All in good time, there is no hurry. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I know that there's nothing that anyone can say that could possibly fill the void that you feel right now. All of us over a certain age have had to come to terms with the death of a loved one, and words are simply inadequate. But I promise, it will get easier. Keeper is quite right. Look after yourself as Isaac would have wanted you to. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
SarekOfVulcan RFA
Thank you for !voting on my RfA. If you supported, I'll make sure your confidence is not misplaced; if you opposed, I'll take your criticism into account and try to adjust my behavior accordingly.
Considering everything going on 'round here these days, editing the encyclopedia looks most interesting. I'll be there in a jif. Thanks, Giggy for the nod... :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:19, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Van the Man, eh? Maybe I'll take a peak through. Always liked brown eyed girls (and incidentally, whenever I stumble across Moonriddengirl, I sing the song in my head, replacing it with "She's my"...."moon rid'n girl"...Ok, nevermind, that's probably a little stalkerish...) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Copyedit
Hi Keeper76, I got your name from WP:PRV and was wondering if you would have time to copyedit an article I have at peer review right now? If so the article is the Earle Mack School of Law and the current peer review can be found here. If you're too busy right now that's ok, I'm just trying to get this up to GA status sometime within the next month and if you would be willing I would appreciate it. Thanks :) --ImmortalGoddezz (t/c) 15:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I've just added you to my to do list. Glad to help. I've got one request a bit further up on the page that I haven't jumped into yet, but if that one goes well, I should be able to get to this one in the next day or two. Sound OK? (Cool username, by the way, me likes)... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure extra help wouldn't be turned down. This is afterall, the encyclopedia anyone, even Dustihowe, can edit. :-). Be sure to read the peer review linked above first, it will probably have some good places to chip in if it's already been reviewed. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeper, if you think a horde of loons follow me to every talkpage, you just wait until IG's "admirers" come to visit you... – iridescent16:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
←Heh, sometimes I feel like a loon.. but no, Iridescent is referring to my mention on ED and a particularly persistent user among others. Things have been oddly quiet in the front lately, but who knows how long that's going to last. --ImmortalGoddezz (t/c) 21:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I figured it out a bit ago, after reading Irid's edit summary and asking on his talkpage. What's the word, um, yeah interesting user you've got there. I just finished copyediting what I could find and I've commented on the peer review. Very nice article IG! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. This, and it's assorted spin-offs on every talkpage you could think of (it still occasionally flares up almost a year later) is probably the most insane conversation I've ever been involved in on Wikipedia, and there's some stiff competition for that title. The truly exemplary way IG handled it is the reason she has a standing RFA nom from me waiting if/when she ever wants it. – iridescent15:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
You are mistaken
I never said anything you implied in the MfD. The situation is over. Its being let go. I'm disappointed, not fed up or sick of you. I just think you may have gotten a little heated over the situation with the blocking admin, and haven't taken the criteria for deletion (the userpage guideline and policy) and the history of deleting (the MfD archives) these pages into account. I still welcome peaceful and fruitful future conversations with you, but just not about this. With best wishes from — MaggotSyn09:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I know I said I wouldn't reply again, but I did (Keeper bad). Hoping that you and I can leave other "voters" alone at this point, we've both dug our heels in pretty deep. Truce? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
And while I'm thinking of it, weren't you and I discussing something somewhere else? I can't for the life of me remember where/what it was. Help me out. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
So, Dusti has how been accused of everything
I created an account on Test Wiki to see how it was to use the tools. It was pretty cool and I told a friend about it and she wanted to have an account. Created an account for her and promoted her according to policy and was accused of being a sock and was blocked. Interesting huh? I was a 'Crat on there and created a sysop sock :) LOL DustiSPEAK!!15:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Keeper had a long night, and now has a long day, nightcapped with a funeral tonight for my best friend's mother. So, yeah. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:26, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh my...I'm sorry. Well, as it turns you, when you look at the WHOIS of our IP's (My friends and mine) oh my, we go to the same university. Maybe Dusti didn't make sock huh? Lets apologize and give him his powers back lol. Grrrrr....I'm going to AFD. DustiSPEAK!!15:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I may be picking here, I'm not sure, but should this user change his name? He's been contacted once, but was told "never-mind" later. I was confused when I first saw it, then looked al ittle closer. DustiSPEAK!!19:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, you're picking. Lots and lots of people named Jimbo, it's just a coincidence (actually, I'm good friends with two Jimbos, one of them from Wales, the other likes Whales, but neither isWales. I'd never heard of the Godking before editing here, if my real name was jimbo and I wanted that as a username, I'd hope I'd be given some slack...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, Keeper76, for your support !vote at my RFA. I will be doing my best to make sure that your confidence has not been misplaced. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 18:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Civility blocks
I hope you won't mind me letting off just a little bit of steam here Keeper, but a few events over recent weeks are bubbling over in my mind.
Most recently, I've just seen that Giano has been given a three hour block for this. Indisputably uncivil, but I was given a 24-hour block for this, only a few weeks ago. Was my alleged disruptive editing 8 times worse than Gianno's alleged incivility? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I detest civility blocks. No, you're disruptive editing was not 8 times worse than Giano's, your blocking admin went 8x more overboard than his is all. (Dear Lord, tell me it wasn't the same blocking admin in both cases). Yours shouldn't have existed, and based on that diff, Giano's shoulda been longer. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
No, it wsn't the same blocking admin. In fact I've deliberately tried to forget who my blocking admin was—pretty easy for me to do, as I don't have a particularly good memory for usernames anyway—but I didn't recognise the name. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Certainly an interesting sociological perspective on the matter, although I do not believe that my action was in any way the same as Gianno's. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
First of all, MBisanz, I can't believe you'd actually make that a redirect here, LOL. :-) Malleus, I feel you man. I wish there was an easy answer, or a "just" answer. Or just an answer would be nice, but it just ain't there. I read a thread somewhere (probably Giano's talkpage) where someone said "the drama of this block will significantly outlast the blocklength". Tis likely true. Means two things to me: 1. We need better things to do, and 2. It needed to be a longer block. Emphasis on #1 in my opinion. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:32, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been astonished at the goings on over at Gianno's talk page this evening. Blocks being overturned, shortened, lengthened, all apparently on a whim. It really isn't a very good advertisement. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
(As a brief change from all the drama on User talk:Fone4My, and issues surrounding it, User talk:Jack forbes, and Talk:Kilmarnock and other pages today)... What surprises me is the number of people who seem to think that just because the limits of some concept cannot be specified, we can have no idea about the concept: there is a border between China and Pakistan that is under dispute with no agreement as to its course, but we can point to regions wthat we know for sure are definitely parts of Pakistan and parts of China. If all this didn't apply, then we wouldn't be able to say what was civil, though people only use the flawed argument to try to counter claims about incivility. If we combine that with a confusion between stating an opinion, and stating a fact (not to mention stating an opinion about a fact, or a fact about an opinion), then that has driven most of the stupidity this evening on that page. Some people need serious elementary education in critical thinking and reasoning skills, and an elementary course in standard philosophy if they really can't get that. DDStretch (talk)22:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure I agree with you. At least, the parts I understood. :-). And the answer to the border question is, of course, 42. Anyone disagreeing will be blocked indef as a sock of someone else that disagrees. If they disagree incivilly, they'll be blocked for 3 hours instead. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Well I'm going to go for the 3-hour block if it's all the same to you, just for a change. ;-) DDStretch and I both share a psychology background, so perhaps I may be inclined to agree too readily with what he says. But it seems apparent to me that there has not been much rational thought employed this evening. During my studies, although I very much enjoyed them, I was never really quite sure what the relevance of the philosophy lectures was to psychology. Bitter experience since then has taught me that very few people have have even a limited understanding of basic logic. If I had my way, everyone with access to the blocking button would have to pass a few basic tests. And it wouldn't be whether you can keep your mouth shut for three months. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Nope, not yet. A new "defender", and I've clarified my question to Epbr. He's been editing all day (likely asleep by now, or should be), but no response from him. Sigh. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia embodies a fundamental mystery. Even the suggestion of dishonesty, gloating, vindictive behavior ... would be enough to sink any RfA. Yet once the RfA is passed, dishonesty, gloating, vindictive behaviour ... become perfectly acceptable. I begin to wonder whether in the not too distant future the only work left for administrators will be to watch one other, as more and more of the non-admin content providers begin to understand how the site really works, and despair at ever being able to change it. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Re: Gone - nope!
5 days and you started missing me already! I'm touched! Just really really busy in RL and have been viewing via my blackberry if and when I can. Still likely to be busy until the middle of next week, but thought I'd drop by and confirm I'm alve and User:WifeOfPedro has not, as yet, produced User:SonOrDaughterOfPedro. Any news on the birthing front of one of your other regular stalkers BTW? Pedro : Chat 20:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm normally inactive at weekends anyway so 3 days is common but 5 is unusual for me. Guess Gwynand might start editing again soon - at around 3.00 am his local time :). By next Thursady I'll be back up to speed, but RL opportunities to earn some bunce have taken over from WP for a few days. Pedro : Chat 21:35, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Heh. I love that show. The Brit version is much better though, but shortlived. Ricky Gervais is a comic genius - I've rarely witnessed such impeccable timing. And the subtlety in which he drops absolute bombs...oh, don't get me started. In related news, Phoebe did that to Ursula too. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
(kc) Heh, MBisart (!) is certainly bolder than I. But I do agree that if there's an AN/I, there should be an AN/K. Besides, the admins here display superior intellect, outstanding article building abilities, captivating physical attractiveness and, above all, a stupendous and awe-inspiring modesty. Enigmamessage21:50, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh no, they still keep on coming. £1,000 a month. This only problem is the deductions;
Hi Bstone, I'm sorry you've been frustrated by these users (or user). I'm afraid I can be of very little help, as I don't have much experience in WP:SSP or WP:RFCU. Now that I think of it, I think MBisanz has much more experience. One thing I will say though is that my talkpage is heavily watchlisted, so I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help you out! That said, I recognize your username. We've crossed paths before - do you remember where?, because I don't and it's bugging me...I'm sure it was positive though. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I thought it looked like an obvious sock, but there are no CUs on IRC and well I didnt feel comfortable blocking per "He's too experienced to be a new editor", so I figured I'd send bstone somewhere heavily watched, the Keeper Noticeboard. MBisanztalk22:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey there Keeper. I was wondering if It would be good to close the above AfD as a "keep". And admins keep asking me for rollback. :S Yes, I declined them. :) So anyway, should I close it? -- RyRy (talk) 22:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I would leave it for an admin. There are at least 2 editors that want it deleted, not a "snow" keep. (although it probably will be kept at the conclusion). How are things going over at Simple? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Not much. I've decided to keep my contributions even between the two wikipedias, here and Simple. So I'll be active both here and Simple English Wikipedia. I've only had my account there for about 17 days, so not much has happened to me there. I've basically received no complaints about my editing there. I like it there, and I like it here too. I have about 2850+ edits there, about 67% in the mainspace. I've written a lot of articles and templates. That's about what has generally happened. By the way, I had my user name renamed from RyRy5 --> RyRy. Much simpler name. :) -- RyRy (talk) 22:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Ha! I didn't even notice you dropped the "5". Glad to see you keep on keepin' on. You know you're welcome here for whatever you wish to contribute/have time for. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Fully Protect my talkpage please
Comment from my talkpage.
Please listen then, everyone. I dont want to be rude. This is something I had no intensions of doing anything incivil and then always end up in trouble. If it is possible, I would like my talk page fully protected to not allow any comments through to my talkpage. I dont want any more drama, and everytime I try to stay from drama, I get into it. I will appologize to Jeff, but also I will try harder to be his friend. I just wanted everyone to know that I didnt mean to be incivil but get an understanding why he was so upset with me.GearsOf War22:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Talkpages are only fully protected for persistent vandalism. No one is vandalizing, only warning you. You do owe Jeff an apology. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
My and Jeff have exchanged appologizes. Sorry for distubing you. And I know you are know one who is done with me. Later and happy editing.GearsOf War22:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi Keeper, I know you ordinarily do not do email because of transparency issues, and I respect that. There is a very serious off-wiki issue I would like to discuss with you. Would you please email me? Thank you, AletaSing22:57, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I do not have email enabled, or an email available. I'm very very sorry Aleta, I don't mean to be elusive. If it can't be said on-wiki, then I don't want to hear it. Very sorry. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
You've definitely piqued my interest though, a sacrifice I'm willing to make to maintain an exclusively on-wiki persona. Again, apologies Aleta that I can't be of further assistance to you. :/ Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I was just about to say (edit conflict of course), that there are several people watching this page. MBisanz, dozens of others. Any of the admins watching this can email Aleta, and perhaps can be of assistance to her? (admins only I presume). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I had not been paying attention here after I said "OK", so I didn't see these other suggestions. Thanks. I was able to get help from Raystorm. Wow, this has been a stressful evening. I'm going to go take a hot bath now. (For folks watching this and wondering what it's about, there's now an ANI thread, "Suicidal Wikipedian".) AletaSing01:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Which I've removed, because it looks like its being addressed on his talkpage and I'm not sure the wider attention at AN/I will really offer further assistance. Follow it up at User_talk:Jeffpw. Avruch01:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)...and I'm going home now. Stressful is an understatement. If Jeff needs my phone number, I'll post it right here on my talkpage. He is way way more important than my privacy. I need to sleep, I've been on wiki for over 12 hours....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that was particularly called for. Jeff made a mistake, I warned him against it, he appologised (unecessarily) to me, blip in behaviour over. I'm sorry, but regardless of underlying circumstances (circumstances that I unfortunatly have first-hand experience in), behaviour like that cannot go without comment. Perhaps I worded my warning a little harshly, but had there been no underlying circumstances, I would have blocked on-sight for a comment like that. As it is, it was an unfortunate blip in behaviour caused by tragic circumstances. Regardless, it's over now. TalkIslander22:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)You're of course right, Islander. I was about to go to your talk and retract (honest!). I overreacted, projecting my own feelings towards what I thought Jeff would be feeling, mixing in my own grief. Jeff has proven to me that he is far more mature than I'll ever be (seeing as I've reached the age where I only grow horizontally not vertically...). Apologies Islander, you meant no harm. And (edit conflict) Sam - if you're really 12, I don't want to see you type "fucking" ever again. Or at least for several years...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
(ecx2... grr...) Sam: I have let the incident go, I meant to state above that this isn't the least bit aimed at Jeff whatsoever (appologies for not making that clear). This is purely between myself and Keeper. Keeper: Thought as much. No problems whatsoever :). I can see exactly where you're coming from, and am now more than happy to pretend that this never happened. For the record, your response above seems to demonstrate that you're more mature than you give yourself credit for. For the next record, I've also reached the age where I've started growing horizontally instead of vertically :P. TalkIslander23:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
No, this is why you should edit Wikipedia instead of User talk :-) Just be careful about what you step into, sometimes it's tough to scrape it off your shoes. And Islander: water/bridge/thanks... Going offline - see ya tomorrow folks...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your note of concern. While I would have reacted as Aleta did in her position, I am ashamed and embarrassed that so many know I am not made of granite, as I like to come across. I promise you I would never do anything which would make Isaac unhappy. Jeffpw (talk) 07:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I looked over it, and I haven't changed my mind. Go read what I wrote. I don't care how many parts of WP:UP it fails, my own talkpage fails most of that too. It was MFD'd by a blocking admin 6 minutes after he blocked the user who's page it is. Don't understand why you'd go along with that, but whatever. I'm sure you'd be crying "admin abuse" if it happened to you SynMag, regardless of the quality of the subpage. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I commented there Keeper. But I have to say, I'm really disappointed with you accusing me of WP:BURO (even when you conform to it; see third sentence: A perceived procedural error made in posting anything, such as an idea or nomination, is not grounds for invalidating that post.). This subpage also violates policy (funny its from the same policy you link), yet I didn't even bother to use it as my rationale. I have to go to work now, but I'm seriously concerned with you calling my comments pointy and bureaucratic. What this solves or accomplishes is beyond me. :/ — MaggotSyn00:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I've replied there. Let's keep it over there if you don't mind, no need to have the same conversation in two places. My apologies for coming across rather strong on this one, I've explained myself in more detail over there. You know I love you SM, but we're gonna disagree on this one. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Alright, cool. I'll wait it out. I really can't lose, though. Me and Obligatory's will be using his talk page as our our personal kibitzing page. --EndlessDan20:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Don't people have better things to do than troll Keeper's talk page (I guess I'm guilty of that now) and work on something? We all knows he is f***ing awesome, but still... --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed]03:03, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
In your closure of the AFD you didn't address my primary objection that the AFD had been inappropriately bulked with many other AFDs violating the guidelines for bundling in WP:AFD. I had yet to review some of these articles as I was waiting for the AFDs to be split. Can you please address? Nfitz (talk) 04:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with #57 here Nfitz. The consensus was overwhelmingly to delete these as being equal in their non-notable status as defined by their identical level in the English football system. Nothing really left to do. You were opining mostly for the Garstang one in particular - do you have any reliable independent sources that clearly identify that particular F.C. as notable? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer13:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Nfitz, the articles were substantially of the same notability (borderline, to use your word). If you can provide me even one reliable, independent source, that shows that Garstang is somehow differentiated from the other FCs, I'll restore it to your userpage. #57 did nothing wrong bundling them, and saved the community a lot of repetitive discussions. That's why they were bundled. I've been on completely the opposite side of #57 in the past in regards to FOOTY issues at AFD, but he has this one right. Again, give me a reliable source, I'll undelete and userfy for you. Just one. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
After the entire AFD discussion, I'm willing to concede on Garstang itself, as it is borderline. I'm more concerned about the bundling ... and I just don't see how that is kocher or helpful if one of the teams is borderline, while others are not. Though I confess I didn't carefully review ALL the teams that were deleted, as I figured they were going to have to be discussed separately. To tackle the bundling - what is the best approach? DRV? Arbitration? ANI? Village Pump? Nfitz (talk) 20:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
You are of course welcome to do what you wish, and I apologize that you are concerned. I don't have a problem with the bundling, it is recommended and even encouraged to streamline the process, keep the backlog down, and either mass keep or mass delete articles of similar nature, similar notability, and similar topic. These articles were identical except the name, and perfectly reasonable candidates for bundling. There was absolutely nothing wrong with #57's actions. In fact, had he run these all separately, based on the same concerns for each article, he would be accused of being pointy, and the exact same discussion would've happened at each separate debate, resulting in #57 being told to "bundle them next time". Again, I apologize you were disappointed with the result, I will be glad to help you rescue or restore any of these articles (I'm not a deletionist) if you can provide any sources that establish notability for any of them. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Rollback
Ohai Keeper. I just have a question for you. Do you think I should start using rollback again? I know I've greatly improved from about 2 months ago. I've learned more about what vandalism really is and when to use rollback.You can look through some of the threads on my talk page to see for yourself. Someone was literally begging me to use rollback again since they thought I was really ready for it, on IRC that is. 3 other admins offered also (User:PeterSymonds, User:Useight, and User:Gonzo fan2007) but I declined them saying I wasn't ready. But I just wanted your view of me using rollback again. I know it's really my choice, and I'm the best person to judge when I'm ready for rollback, but you always have something smart to say about it, and I would like your thoughts on it. (and for those "talk page stalkers", feel free to comment also.) -- RyRy (talk) 15:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I usually have something smart to say? You mean smart ass, right :-)? If you want rollback, I'll give it to you. You've shown restraint and shown that you are dedicated to improving Wikipedia. I believe you would use it correctly and sparingly (meaning almost never probably). Want it? Rollback is no biggie. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Seeing as I'm here... I'd echo Keeper in saying I'd have no problem with you being given rollback; I'd also echo him in that "probably almost never". Unless you're using Huggle (which requires it), I find it hard to think of any reason to be using rollback other than the once-in-a-blue-moon occasion when you have to revert all of an account's edits and the extra two seconds makes a difference (someone mass-inserting a libel, say). Everything you can do with rollback you can do better with Undo or Twinkle. – iridescent16:20, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh, sorry for the delay. I was speaking to some users on IRC. Anyway, I accept your offer Keeper. I will do my very best not to misuse it. I will undo or maybe even use popups if I don't think, even the slightest doubt, an edit is not vandalism. If not, and it is vandalism for sure, I will revert it with rollback. Of course, I don't have to revert with rollback on true vandalism cases. You can expect to see me using popups also, not just rollback. I've spent my time reading over a few policies, in particular, WP:VAND, WP:ROLLBACK, and Wikipedia:Rollback policy and I will just review more. I need to be clear on what vandalism is. I know rollback is just like instaling Twinkle, and it's NO BIG DEAL, but you always have to be sure you know what vandalism is. I'll do some practicing in WP:NAS even. So, anyway, I accept your offer, hoping I will use it correctly and on non-vandalism. I won't let you down Keeper! ;) If I do Keeper, which I hope I don't, I will be crushed... letting you and many others down... but I will do my very best Keeper. RyRy (talk) 16:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd agree that rollback only needs to be used infrequently, but it is very useful nevertheless. In fact, if I had had rollback earlier, and not had to revert the vandalism referred to here with two undos, Pedro and I would not have fallen out. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I also rarely use rollback itself, usually I use Twinkle or Huggle. Rollback is nice when, for example, I have to keep reverting someone after I report them to AIV while I'm waiting for someone to block them. Also, sometimes someone adds spam to many articles in quick succession, and it is nice to just hold down Ctrl and click on all the revert links. J.delanoygabsadds17:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Even with only one edit to revert, I've always found rollback to be more useful than a simple undo. It's faster, it's one click, and I don't have to wait for the page to load. Enigmamessage17:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think anything got moved to an archive. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question? That's just a practice page where you can make a bunch of silly edits, and then use rollback to revert yourself. Or, in the case of admins, you can make a bunch of silly edits, and then delete them for practice. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Amen, Malleus. RyRy, you probably just gained a dozen opposes at any future RFA with that single diff. – iridescent21:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't see why. I'm not really planning any RfA to be honest. I don't see how it was wrong to say that... -- RyRy (talk) 21:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Because on IRC you are discussing other editors who do not know that they're being discussed, and who have no way of finding out what has been said about them. Nuff said? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
(ec) When people mistake "what my friends on IRC said" for consensus, this is what results. Seriously, don't go there. I refuse on principle to even get a password for the admin channel and I'm certainly not alone there. – iridescent21:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
<--I detest IRC. I don't care what anyone says about "publicly available logs" or whatnot, it is just an unnecessary tool. Won't be convinced otherwise. 99% of the conversations there are harmless. The 1% that are harmful make it not worth it. Now you have my opinion on it too RyRy. Whether you're "gunning for RFA" or not, IRC is evil, 1% of the time. Not worth it. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry for I said that then. I didn't know it was taken like that, even 1% of the time. I'll never speak of IRC again. -- RyRy (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't care if you speak of IRC, I'd rather you didn't speak on IRC. You can of course do what you wish. Just know that anything that happens there carries exactly zero weight here, and anything you try to pass off as "per IRC" will get you a flame on your talkpage. Do what you like though, it's a free wiki. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
It's been an interesting day for me here. Sorry I haven't been editing as heavily. Personal life has been interesting latley. Note the change in my userbox. I'm going to AFD now. DustiSPEAK!!15:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey Keepster...So I was watchlisting along (leap...leap...leap...oh, wait, that's not a watchlist, that's Zoboomafoo) and I found this. And this. Also this. And this, and this, and finally this...all of which were merged/redirected as part of AfDs I started months ago. (The hilarious thing about that is, I was just yesterday cleaning up my watchlist and nearly removed them, thinking "nobody's gonna recreate those NOW...) The consensus was to merge/redirect, and I thought even THAT was a stretch--they're TOTAL cruft. Since you're an admin and all...anything you can do about it? Thanks....Gladys J Cortez16:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Here's one of 'em... unfortunately I was such an AfD n00b at that point that I made individual AfD's for all of them, for which I was promptly and thoroughly f1am3Z0rd. Ah, the salad-says of our Wikitude, before Caillou took over all our watchlists...Gladys J Cortez16:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
An IP user undid all the redirects. I just undid his undoing and left a talkpage notice. I'm not watchlisting any of the redirects (you've gotten me enough grief with the children's programming :-) Let me know if IP persists. (and let me know if I missed any) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Hooray for Keeper! (I went to link to the annoying kids' show tagline to which I was referring there, and discovered much to my malicious glee that it doesn't have an article yet! Oh happiness, oh joy, oh unutterable wiggliness....) Anyway, thanks for the un-re-directions!! Gladys J Cortez18:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
oops, didn't realise that was your close on the AfD. My comments were more on the arguments then the close. Anywya, I'm out of here. Catch up Monday, have a good weekend. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee18:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
What, you want me to contribute to the betterment of Wikipedia? The nerve...I'll be over in a few, got some RL stuff. What's your timeline/deadline? I'll be online for about another hour, then gone for about 12. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:23, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
When you move an article, please remember to check the talk page and make sure templates are updated as well; you left a FAC dangling on the talk page as a red link.[11] I moved the FAC to the new name, and updated the article name on the FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your support in my recent RfA, which closed successfully. I felt the process was a thorough review of my contributions and my demeanor, and I was very gratified to see how many editors took the time to really see what I'm about and how I can be of help to the project. As a result, some editors changed their views during the discussion, and most expressed specific, detailed points to indicate their opinion (whether it was , , or ).
A number of editors were concerned about my level of experience. I was purposeful in not waiting until a particular benchmark occurred before requesting adminship, because I feel - as many do - that adminship is not a reward and that each case is individual. It is true that I am not the most experienced editor around here, but I appreciate that people dug into my contributions enough to reach the conclusion that I seem to have a clue. Also, the best thing about this particular concern is that experience is something an editor - or administrator - can always get more of, and I'll continue doing that, just as I've been doing. (If I seem a little slow at it, feel free to slap me.)
I am a strong believer in the concept that this project is all about the content, and I'm looking forward to contributing wherever I can. Please let me know if I can be of any help. In the meantime, I'm off to school...
2002 Bou'in–Zahra earthquake—OK, I'm wondering whether each item was originally a region, and has come together to form the name of a village that has ownership of both regions ... or what? An en dash is quite specific in application. But I'm unsure. Double names are normally, although not exclusively, subject to a hyphen instead.
But definitely wrong are your changes to en dash of items such as "southwest–dipping thrust" and "multiple–even location". Have you read MOS on en dashes and hyphens? TONY(talk)15:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I've read it, I went way to fast with the "find/replace" function. I'll fix them immediately. I believe the title is correct, I'll go back to text. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Can you all slow down on changing the title until you're certain? Correcting the FAC this time will be non-trivial, because it will involved an admin move over the previous move. Please make sure it's eventually right in 3 places: talk page link to FAC, name in the FAC, and link at FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
SSSSHHHSSHH. Don't tell anyone. Admins aren't allowed to screw up endashes...that said, I believe the hyphen is correct, and my page move yesterday was incorrect. It should be fine now, and I see that EOTW has it right in all three places. Eek. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I fixed a few again :-) Quite a few comments throughout that FAC about FAC being used as peer review, and this is an example of why that's cumbersome. Keeper, can you explain to me why I see edit summaries saying "move over redirect", but as a non-admin, I can't do that? How do others do that? What am I missing? I always ask for admin help. How did EOTW move it? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
It's simple. Us admins all got together and decided we like EOTW better. Actually, his edit fit this little clause. Should work for you too in these specific circumstances. Other than that, get yourself added here and you won't have to "bother the admins". I know you have strong feelings about hellweek though, I won't bug you about it, as I know others have already... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I guess; the prose in the link you gave is gibberish that I can't sort. Someone needs to rewrite that explanation. I think Gary's explanation works. I guess it means in the future, I should just try it, and it either works or not? Is that correct? I've always assumed I can't do it, since I've never been able to. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)Gary summed it nicely. Basically, I moved the page. The "old title" became a redirect page, and the page history at that point only had one edit (my page move). As long as that's the case (I didn't go into the new redirect and add more edits to it), anyone can move it back to the original title (what EOTW did). It's useful, but limited generally in scope because basically your saying "bad page move, put it back!". In this case useful, in other cases, edit warring...:-) So yeah, try it, you'll get the box on your screen if you're allowed to do it. Admins always get the box, one of the perks... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:13, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Keeper; since I've never seen this "box", I guess I'll have to go create a test page in my userspace so I can see this new thing I've learned in action. Thanks again, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:16, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
TPS (or WikiJaguar) now affects statistics. Worrying, I know.
By the way, does that mean I'll hafta start being even more milquetoast about what I say than he does? Wouldn't wanna rock a boat or anything...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if you're a sockpuppet. I'm sorry, I really have no idea what you're talking about. I think we should all just get along and go edit the encyclopaedia...[12]/ soothing hippy voice... Alex Muller19:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
<--Maybe I am Jimbo. Hmm. If I was, I'd be doing a damn fine job making sure I wasn't crossing my editing patterns up...(and I 'bout half of you hordes just started to seriously wonder....for your sake, I'll say it here. I'm !not not Jimbo.)Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
That's hilarious because I was wondering the same thing about my edits! I just went and found my edit from Aug 07 (I was a noob), and just now right before this, made my second edit to Tennis to fix my edit from Aug 07. Too funny. And yes, I was a noob less than a year ago. I haven't even been here a year yet (honest) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Posts from me at weird times like that aren't as strange as they seem; because Evil Forces Threatening The Basis Of Our Society don't go away on public holidays, but Defenders Of Freedom And Justice get paid at triple-time, I'll quite often be staring blankly at screens and/or listening to static through crackly headphones at 2am on New Year morning or similar. – ırıdescent20:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
The public certainly can... You would be shocked at how many reports from the public about UFOs get passed to us as "possibly credible". – ırıdescent20:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Done Fixed. –xenocidic (talk) 15:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
.svg){kind=small}
or 
is a better illustration for "ferry". – iridescent 20:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Resolved
![[2]](http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/53/53806sw244uf5mj.gif){kind=link}
![[3]](http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/jan07/coronary-atherosclerosis.jpg){kind=link}
![[4]](http://www.catchwordbranding.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/spotteddick.jpeg){kind=link}
, 
, or 
).