User talk:Cstevencampbell

Photo Aids

For photo help, go to the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. ww2censor (talk) 15:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re On Conrad Models

Hi Cstevencampbell, thanks for your message. It appears you've been hard at work :). I've tagged that article for needing inline citations, as that's what the preferred wiki-order calls for. Though other ways may be easier to write and maintain, it's the reader who must be entertained... and hopefully in a manner that's somewhat consistent, right across the entire project. My best suggestion (and answer to your questions) would be to follow some of the links provided in the banner I've added to the article. It's there that you will find detailed explanations and examples. Good luck, and happy editing! :) -- WikHead (talk) 06:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving Wikipedia

I Have decided that Wikipedia is not the place for the discussion of toy brands and their packaging since the packaging is so important to understanding how the companies presented themselves and competed with one another. Pictures of the models without packaging just doesn't portray enough information about the companies' marketing audiences and goals. Also, it seems the deletion of pictures in doubt was done so capriciously - when no one really knew if they were in copyright violation or not, including myself. So, in my opinion, the proper place for this venue and its discussion is in publishing books or articles in professionally edited outlets where copyrights can be appropriately pursued. I will not be contributing to Wikipedia or Wikipedia Commons any longer, as it is counterproductive to what needs to be shown in complete encyclopedia entries that could give exceptionally good ideas as to what the companies and their products were really like. That simply cannot be done here in a professional presentation.--Cstevencampbell (talk) 03:28, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK I'm Back

Well, six months have gone by without much change in my entries, so that gives me confidence that they are pretty good. I've started editing and adding entries once again.

Image woes

Hi, I saw you mentioned having problems with image copyright before. You may want to take a look at how I have handled images of toys with copyrighted designs. Basically, these images should not be on commons, but uploaded to Wikipedia directly and then used under fair use. File:Whatsherfacedolls.jpg and File:Monchhichi doll.jpg are images I moved here from commons and File:Unoabjd.jpg is an image released on flickr under a free license. You can have a look at how I handled the templates and fair use rationales on these. If you have any questions feel free to ask me on my talk page or you could try asking at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Cheers, Siawase (talk) 14:04, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you have it sorted out. I'm not sure what info you're looking for re: uploading to Wikipedia, but the basic steps are:

Go to Wikipedia:Upload (it's listed in the toolbox menu on each page too: "Upload file")
Select the appropriate type of image
Fill out the appropriate template using relevant guidelines where needed, ie Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline

For free images of toys with copyrighted designs though, things get a bit more complicated as they need a dual license, which is why I suggested using the examples I posted above as guidelines. But if you have it sorted already it's perhaps a bit moot now. :) Cheers, Siawase (talk) 13:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Minichamps

In response to User talk:Stepho-wrs#Check out Minichamps. I'm not sure why Minichamps (the company) wants to ignore its own history before 1991 but the Minichamps article is certainly a lot better now and covers a lot more of its prehistory. Thank you very much. Stepho talk 07:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ToyPedia

I would be very interested in talking to you about your work, we are building ToyPedia, a catalogue of every toy ever made using Mediawiki at its core and you would be an ideal contributor, please contact me on christian.braun@toycollector.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.169.9.86 (talk) 17:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sinclair note

What's the story behind the Sinclair note (cf. your recent edit)? I don't understand the purpose of it. Jason Quinn (talk) 03:41, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On a couple of my entries I had started quoting David Sinclair's sales flyers and typewritten sheets as sources. Someone who did not know how influential Sinclair was in bringing more sophisticated European diecast to the United States in the 1970s said the material was not adequate as source material because it was not from a 'legitimate' published book or source that that person viewed as 'authoritative'. I argued that Sinclair nearly single-handedly opened up the diecast collector market in the states. He said something like, "Well you have to document that because quoting a bunch of sales flyers is not a good source". A good source used properly for me might be anything that gives me new insight on the subject - maybe a postcard, government document, sales brochure, or other archival material. I got the sense that this person wouldn't accept any of those because they weren't 'books'. I didn't see how a published book was any more authoritative than these other sources and Sinclair was the early collector influence and I told him this. He balked and said well prove it then - substantiate it. So I did and I put that note in everywhere with the R.F. Levine reference when I use David Sinclair's stuff - just in case some other editor lacking knowledge in diecast comes in complaining that it is not legitimate material.--Cstevencampbell (talk) 04:13, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation. I see from your user page that you experienced a little of what's called "wikistress", i.e., frustration with the process of Wikipedia, and took a break from editing because of it. This is not uncommon among new editors and its an unfortunate consequence of the sometimes confusing and labyrinthine policies and guidelines here. I've been here more than five years and I sometimes get frustrated too! ;-)

What the other editors were telling you seems to be an accurate summary of Wikipedia's stance on reliable sources which can be used to establish notability for articles and to use as refereces to support sentences. At some point as you develop as a Wikipedian, it is very important to read the documents linked carefully. Not only will it allow you to avoid certain pitfalls but to defend yourself against other editors. It's never a bad idea to occasionally review the Wikipedia:Five pillars.

Several general comments. The Wikpedia guidelines are not perfect but I doubt anybody would claim that they are. What many editors would claim is that they work pretty well all things considered. The guidelines seem to be a good solution to the problem of having millions of people — who often disagree — collaborate on making articles. That said, there are "gray areas" where it's not clear if something is kosher or not. These areas occur, and reasonably so, more often on very specific topics such as with the diecast collectibles article we are discussing here. The notability guideline is, however, a guideline, not a policy (see Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines) and when it makes sense, one should invoke Wikipedia:Ignore all rules but this should should be rare and justifiable. The Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not policy also offers some general insight regarding what material should and should not be included.

Now some specific comments. Regardless if the Sinclair flyers are reliable sources, using notes in articles to argue for their reliable status is not the right thing to do. A reference should be a reliable sources before they are used. When a dispute occurs, such as it has here, over the status of a source, the discussion should remain on the talk pages until consensus is reached. This may take a while. Using notes to circumvent waiting for consensus is kind of "iffy" and I think you would agree that if this were frequently used by editors it would degrade the average quality of articles.

Once consensus is reached, editors should just live with the result and move on, even if they feel that the wrong conclusion was reached. I have been on the "losing side" of many discussions on Wikipedia. Just remember to assume good faith that it's all in the name of building a better encyclopedia. Sometimes I have realized afterward that the other side was probably right. Sometimes I still feel like the wrong decision was made. The topic can be re-visited later.

It was not clear to me that you have read Wikipedia's policies or guidelines. It is important not only to be aware of them but to also digest and understand them. They really are quite good and work remarkably well, which is why they haven't changed much since the inception of the site. I have linked a bunch of relevant material above and they are all documents that most editors will eventually read and that will make your experience as a Wikipedian more rewarding. As I indicated above, the "Sinclair notes" do not seem as if they belong in articles and their main purpose seems to be to skirt normal procedure. I expect that you would eventually agree with this and if in the future, I or another editor remove them, you would concur. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:11, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so I've cleaned up several articles, better referenced David Sinclair and moved those notes to their respective 'talk' pages. Yes, it makes it all much cleaner.--Cstevencampbell (talk) 23:00, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for Advise

Thank you. How about I will work on moving the notes to the talk pages and clean up the articles appropriately where I have placed the notes? That definitely seems reasonable. My general stance is when someone alters an article that I edit a lot, I see if the content is good and, of course, keep it, if it is good. When I correct others' edits I try then to give good references and reasons why the new content doesn't fit (or strengthen what has been added), but it is often just fine. Sometimes though, people DO put mistaken information on the pages and correction or clarification is naturally needed. I have reviewed the five pillars (sounds Islamic) and they seem to work pretty well, I agree.--Cstevencampbell (talk) 21:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First up, I want to thank you for the good work you've done on scale modelling articles.

One of the main rules of WP is verifiability. If nobody can verify what you have written then nobody knows if it is truth or misinformation. WP normal rejects self published work because it may be truth or it maybe missing in major areas or it may be complete rubbish - nobody knows. Whereas long standing journals with authors, sub editors and chief editors and a good reputation to upkeep usually have more reliable information - ie they double things and reject fluff in order to keep their good reputation. In the case of Sinclair, your stance is that it is a reliable source but most others will see it as a self published work - possibly with no checking of facts. The typical editor will not know that Sinclair is a reliable source. So you need to find a reliable source (typically a book/journal with an editorial staff) that mentions Sinclair as a standout source of information. Once you have established his credibility and left your sources for this as a note on one of the major modelling talk pages, then you can use him as source.

Last note: talk pages usually have a single topic heading for an entire conversation, with each reply indented by an additional colon. Putting a new topic heading for each reply is a bit confusing. Cheers. Stepho talk 23:04, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I agree on finding a reliable source on Sinclair - that makes sense. One good one is the R. F. Levine article, but it is not a book, but lots of books suck. Anyway I spend more time writing here than talking.--Cstevencampbell (talk) 01:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that you have put a note on each individual scale model page about Sinclair. Probably a better way would be to create an article about him that specifies what he did for the hobby and the esteem he is held in (with references like Levine of course). Then you can add his flyers as references in individual articles like:

Brand XXX was released in 1975.^[1]

^ David Sinclair (1975), "Some title", USA{{citation}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)

Anybody querying the use of flyers can be pointed to his article (which would be linked to in the reference). Stepho talk 03:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re: APA and other references.

Happy to help! Feel free to ask me if you run into any issues with the reference formatting. Oh, and if you have any other more general comments or questions, Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Village pump reach a wider audience, so you're more likely to get a response than at individual article talk pages. Happy editing! Siawase (talk) 10:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources

Hello, if you haven't already, it would probably be helpful if you familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. At a minimum, the vast majority of self published sources, like posts on a web forum, are not reliable sources and should not be used on wikipedia. If you have access to them, reliable offline books and magazines are vastly preferable to online sources of dubious reliability. If you are unsure about a specific source you can ask about it at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Siawase (talk) 22:12, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated vandalism

Yes, what you asked me about is vandalism. I imagine that it's quite frustrating to have this happen again and again. Please see WP:AIV for instructions, though that's not quite like being able to snap your fingers and make the culprit go away. It will take a few steps. Following the recommended steps and showing the proper patience will keep good people on your side, and you will prevail in the end. Good luck! Chris the speller ^yack 21:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RAMI models

Hi Steven, I'm looking at Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_April_9 where your photos of the RAMI models were nominated for deletion as derivative works of copyrighted car designs. Can you tell me if the car models were ever offered for sale in the United States before 1978 and, if so, if they have a copyright notice? If they were sold in the US before 1978 and have no copyright notice, then the cars themselves are public domain and there is no problem whatsoever with the photos. Otherwise it's more questionable. My opinion is that the photos should stay either way (even if we have to consider them fair use) because, in my opinion, they substantially enhance the reader's understanding of the topic, but it's obviously a much easier case to make if the cars are not protected by copyright. Thanks. (By the way, the level of detail on these things is amazing. I used to have some old die cast model cars when I was a kid that I wish I knew what happened to them.) --B (talk) 19:10, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

File:RAMI Taxi La Marne.jpg

A discussion which recently concluded at Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_April_9#File:RAMI_Taxi_La_Marne.jpg found that the image linked above should be considered as a non-free image, but should be kept pending an appropriate rationale being added. This industry is more your expertise than mine, so I was wondering if you'd mind adding that rationale to the image - you'll know better than I how to explain its utility to the article in question. Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions. (ESkog)^(Talk) 13:38, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus on this particular image was that its inclusion could be justified under our non-free content criteria. In general, photographs of toys are considered no different than other works of three-dimensional art; if they are sufficiently new creations to be subject to copyright, they should either be deleted or used with an appropriate non-free rationale. (ESkog)^(Talk) 17:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the images on Commons, many such images have been deleted. I can't answer for them why they don't apply rules more consistently, other than that on a wiki environment there's going to be a lot of interpretations of any rule, no matter how clearly it seems to be written. As far as the two discussions I closed, it appeared that the consensus was that one of them seemed to have a stronger case that it was uniquely necessary to the article because of the commentary on that image. I wouldn't be opposed to the other one being recreated under a {{Non-free 3D art}} license. (ESkog)^(Talk) 19:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Models

Your problem with the models stems from the fact that it's French. Thus the model gains automatic copyright as per French Law. A lot of the other toy cars you are likely to find (and I cannot say if we have found all the bad ones) will be American - and can therefore become PD under the old US copyright system and one can then apply a tag from WP:ICT/PD - up to the URAA date where the US then started using the same system as (more or less) the rest of the world. Ronhjones ^(Talk) 16:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	I've just run into a couple of the articles you've written on diecast toy manufacturers and see that you've written quite a few. They are a joy to read and a great part of the encyclopedia. Thanks, SchreiberBike talk 20:19, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Parenthetical Referencing

Thanks for your feeedback related to my proposal to change the style of referencing used in some scale modelling articles that you frequently contribute to, as noted for Monogram models and Aurora Plastics Corporation. I won't change the referencing style used if there is no consensus, and to achieve this other editors should comment on my proposal; to this effect, please make your commentary to my proposal in the talk page of the relevant articles.

As I've explained in those articles' Talk Page, I find (personally) confusing that the references are mixed with the text being references, in the same font; surely other readers could be confused too. I'll keep proposing the change in those articles where I found it as I believe is a style improvement (I need to re-check the guidelines, though). Just as a comment, last year I read about 10 books (mostly about history) and in them referencing was done either as footnotes at the bottom of each page, at the end of the chapter, or at the end of the book; but not using the parenthical style.

Regardless of the referencing style, I thank you for the contributions to the Scale Modelling topic; and look forward to collaborating in improving its coverage within Wikipedia. Regards, DPdH (talk) 23:01, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed the citation style guidelines, and actually they discourage switching between "major styles" unless there is consensus that the change will be appropriate for the needs of the article. They also recommend that an edit notice is placed in each article using this style. I'll follow these recommendations. Regards, DPdH (talk) 07:02, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Parenthetical Referencing (bis)

When I follow @DPdH's two references above to Monogram Models and Aurora Plastics Corporation, I find him expressing exactly the sentiment I felt when reading articles on Jouef and Britains to which you have contributed. In all four cases (and - you will know better than I - possibly in other articles on the broader subject which you have "adopted"?) you have taken a more or less established article and arbitrarily imposed parenthetical referencing on it by deleting the previous footnote citation style. For Jouef you did this on 4 December 2012, despite the fact that the article had been created (as a stub, it is true) some 8 years before in 2004, with its first citations added in the form you personally do not prefer as long ago as 2008. Britains is similar - an article created as Britains Limited on 20th December 2006, and which acquired its first in-line citation in the format you don't like later that same day - then happily lived on in that format for 9 years (including dozens of your own very worthwhile contributions), until suddenly one day in February 2015, you changed the entire citation style in a single edit - no edit notice, no discussion, no talk page enquiry.

To summarise these four articles only:
Article name	Creation date	First in-line citation date	First edit by you	Conversion by you to parenthetical citation
Jouef	3 November 2004	26 September 2008	14 March 2010	4 December 2012
Britains	20 December 2006	20 December 2006	15 May 2012	8 February 2015
Monogram	2 November 2005	18 August 2009	6 April 2010	24 July 2011
Aurora	12 May 2008	12 May 2008	26 May 2011	17 July 2011

As DPdH pointed out 6 years ago, this is explicitly identified as inappropriate Wikipedia behaviour: "editors should not attempt to convert Wikipedia to their own preferred style, nor should they edit articles for the sole purpose of converting them to their preferred style, or removing examples of, or references to, styles which they dislike."

I have read your piece on this subject on your talk page, and while it is internally an eminently fair and reasonable statement, your active application of it is a direct contravention of the content guideline cited above, and - in my view - is essentially inappropriate to Wikipedia conceptually. As a non-academic (and I don't bring my work to Wikipedia either), I would never regard a Wikipedia entry as being of academic quality without a full external review by subject matter experts of a standing comparable to yours, (and unless you would permit me, as a politics and languages graduate, to be on the pre-publication peer-review panel for your next serious geography journal submission, nor can you), and I would therefore suggest that your statement is invalid conceptually since you justify it by reference solely to professional journals which Wikipedia most emphatically is not. Wikipedia addresses everyone, not just academic experts.

The vast majority of those who use Wikipedia read it but do not edit it (i.e. on en.wikipedia.org there have been 117bn pageviews over the last 12 months, from an average of 877m unique devices vs. an average of 421,000 active editors making an average 1.7m monthly edits). In my opinion, the value of citations to the majority of these users is probably somewhere between limited and nil, and it therefore follows that citations - while remaining absolutely necessary - should be as unobtrusive as possible. The parenthetical/Harvard style achieves the very contrary of this. I agree that the <ref></<ref> format isn't perfect, but describing it as "a nightmare to alter" is hyperbole used for ex post justification of your position. It's absolutely understandable that many people don't like the <ref></<ref> format, but starting at that point, would the better route not be to ask other editors who don't mind the <ref></<ref> usage to reformat your citations into the prevailing style rather than change the entire article to suit you?

I am genuinely surprised by how much your actions have annoyed me, and I would not like you to think either (a) that this is in any way personal, or (b) that I do not value your very considerable and longstanding contribution to Wikipedia, but PLEASE stop changing citation style on established articles. CharlesSpencer (talk) 17:02, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A cup of coffee for you!

Enjoy a cup of cofee in a well deserved pause; I've been browsing your contriubutions and believe that add value to Wikipedia readers. Thanks for your efforts! Regards, DPdH (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback needed on using special characters

Hello. Thank you for using VisualEditor! Having editors use it is the best way for the Wikimedia Foundation to develop it into the best tool it can be.

While we always welcome general feedback (please report any issues in Bugzilla in the "VisualEditor" product or drop your feedback on the central feedback page on MediaWiki.org), the developers are especially interested right now in feedback on the special character inserter. This new tool is used for inserting special characters (including symbols like ₥, IPA pronunciation symbols, mathematics symbols, and characters with diacritics). It is intended to help people whose computers do not have good character inserters. For example, many Mac users prefer to use the extensive "Special Characters..." tool present at the bottom of the Edit menu in all applications or to learn the keyboard shortcuts for characters like ñ and ü.

The current version of the special characters tool in VisualEditor is very simple and very basic. It will be getting a lot of work in the coming weeks and months. It does not contain very many character sets at this time. (The specific character sets can be customized at each Wikipedia, so that each project could have a local version with the characters it wants.) But the developers want your ideas at this early stage about ways that the overall concept could be improved. I would appreciate your input on this question, so please try out the character inserter and tell me what changes to the design would (or would not!) best work for you.

Issues you might consider:

How often do you normally use Wikipedia's character inserters?
Which character sets are useful to you? Should it include all 18 of the character sets provided in the wikitext editor's newer toolbar at the English Wikipedia, the 10 present in the older editor toolbar, or some other combination of character sets?
How many special characters would you like to see at one time?
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The wikitext editor has never included many symbols and characters, like ℗ and ♀. Do you find that you need these missing characters? If the character inserter in VisualEditor includes hundreds or thousands of special characters, will it be overwhelming? How will you find the character you want? What should be done for users without enough space to display more than a few dozen characters?
Should the character inserter be statically available until dismissed? Should it hover near the mouse? Should it go away on every selection or 10 seconds after a selection with no subsequent ones?
Some people believe that the toolbar already has too many options—how would you simplify it?

The developers are open to any thoughts on how the special character inserter can best be developed, even if this requires significant changes. Please leave your views on the central feedback page, or, if you'd prefer, you can contact me directly on my talk page. It would be really helpful if you can tell me how frequently you need to use special characters in your typical editing and what languages or other special characters are important to you.

Thank you again for your work with VisualEditor and for any feedback you can provide. I really do appreciate it.

P.S. You might be interested in the current ideas about improving citations, too. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly unfree File:Diecast911Engine.jpg

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Diecast911Engine.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you object to the listing for any reason. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 11:44, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Dugu Miniautotoys for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Dugu Miniautotoys is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dugu Miniautotoys until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Guy (Help!) 12:37, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rampini

A couple of editors seem to have a problem with the following references to books by Rampini: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Users adding references to Paolo Rampini die cast books. What's your opinion of Rampini books? Stepho talk 12:30, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've never had or used any Rampini books or sources, though I see references to them frequently. I think the main issue is that the source is being added to all the articles without any attribution or citation so you don't know the direct relation to the subject of the article. Take care--Cstevencampbell (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Rampini spammer may be considered banned by now, having spammed using multiple IP addresses, evaded numerous blocks, changed spelling in order to evade an abuse filter, and generally forfeited any right to the assumption of good faith. Guy (Help!) 22:23, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Please familiarise yourself with WP:RS. You recently added blog posts and web forum posts as "sources", I am afraid that is not right. Guy (Help!) 23:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reen

Do you know anything about the Reen brand? Found this Ebay auction but not sure if it is a period manufacturer or somebody new. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reen-Replica-2-Toyota-SA-Sedan-1947-lihgt-blue-1-43-Handmade-Model-Mint-No-Box-/122240856825?hash=item1c761f72f9:g:9lkAAOSwEzxYN1e0 Thanks. Stepho talk 08:12, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I hate answering my own question a minute after asking it. http://modelcars.mbeck.ch/model.php?lang=e&mode=search&herst=Reen%20Replica&info=herst Stepho talk 08:17, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tomica

Dear Cstevencampbell

I am pretty sure the Greyhound isn't a Scenicruiser, look at it and it was made in the 60s, this particular model (in real life) is based on a 80s bus. The DeVille and the Seville were literally the same the same diecast. And the Italian, German, American etc. Special Models were models that had their flag on their diecast boxes, and they didn't have a specific number. Audi1merc2 (talk) 21:19, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so I was wrong with the "Special Models" too, I researched them and then realized that they had a letter followed by a number. Audi1merc2 (talk) 10:21, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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[sinclair75-1] David Sinclair (1975), "Some title", USA{{citation}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)

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