Template talk:Welcome-unconstructive

Comments from 2009

No need to include the verbiage "Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me" in my opinion. Bwrs (talk) 02:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Though it may be redundant, the inital rationale was that the template was trying to be as friendly as possible with the most borderline/potentially misinterpreted cases of vandalism. What I'd prefer to cut, if anything were cut from that paragraph, would be the "I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia!" - Excessively saccarin, it seems to also strip a lot of the attention away from what follows. MrZaius^talk

I think that the final signature, i.e. ~~~~, should not be included in the template, as it is not included in the standard {{welcome}} template. Anna Lincoln (talk) 16:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

This behaviour has been in place for a good while now, so changing it would probably not be a good idea. Note I added the ability to put in a message before your sig by typing |3=Message here ,,, ... –xeno (talk) 16:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

spacing / bold

Not sure if this is because of a custom JS or gadget, but I notice when I use this template (both on the receivers talk page as well as on this template page) that the bold text of "your recent contributions" is too close to preceding word "of". It looks as if there is no space between the words, although I can see from the template that there is a space there. Like I said, maybe it's my JS or maybe it's firefox... but I thought I would mention it to see if others notice it also. Thanks.     JCutter  ^{{ talk to me }}     01:16, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Header

{{editprotected}} Shouldn't the welcome header be coded as simply "==Header=="? Logan | Talk 22:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Welcome templates do not typically have a section header, which is I assume why this one also uses a customized, bolded header instead. If you think this is wrong or should be changed, you should start a discussion and probably invite people from Template talk:Welcome over, where people interested in this kind of templates might be found. Amalthea 01:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

quotes around sandbox

I don't think they're necessary as I think that they may make using the sandbox a bit more intimidating for vandals to actually use it. --Tommy²⁰¹⁰ 02:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.139.146.33, 21 July 2010

{{editprotected}} This template is currently displaying an extraneous { symbol. To fix this, please replace this sentence:

Feel free to write a note on the bottom of {{{{{{|safesubst:}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|[[User talk:{{{2}}}{{!}}my talk page]]|my talk page}} if you want to get in touch with me.

with this sentence:

Feel free to write a note on the bottom of {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|[[User talk:{{{2}}}{{!}}my talk page]]|my talk page}} if you want to get in touch with me.

This removes the extra { from the beginning of the #if parser function. Thanks. 99.139.146.33 (talk) 02:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. -- Mentifisto 10:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Four tildes

When I post this template at a talk page, instead of a signature automatically coming up, I only see four tildes (~~~~). Is this a problem with the template, my computer, or myself? :) Cordially, Clementina talk 12:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

That's because you forgot to substitute the template! :O Set Sail For The Seven Seas 258° 0' 45" NET 17:12, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Silly me. :P Just what I thought, it was the problem with myself... Clementina talk 00:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Rename?

I think we really ought rename this template so that users who aren't necessarily vandals per se aren't put off by the comment in the hidden remark that refers to "Welcomevandal". –xeno^talk 17:21, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... good point, well made. It does seem a little bitey as it is. However, I'm fresh out of ideas for another name. Set Sail For The Seven Seas 279° 9' 15" NET 18:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Me too - otherwise I would've just done it =] –xeno^talk 18:41, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I've been thinking along the same lines for some time. :) I can't think of anything except Template:Welcomenewbie (well, this might sound too condescending) or Template:Firstlinks. Clementina talk 00:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

How about {{welcomev}}? by the time they learn the subtleties between {{welcomeg}}, {{welcomeh}}, etc, they might not be so inexperienced editors. ^walk victor falk ^talk 20:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

How about we rename it to "WelcomeUnconstructive"? Sounds less bitey. Dreth(^talk) 20:57, 1 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreth (talk • contribs)

I would definitely support renaming it "WelcomeUnconstructive" just like {{welcome-anon-unconstructive}}. --A guy saved by Jesus (talk) 18:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Less "bitey"

It was obviously renamed, but why was the wording kept? The contents of the message are still "bitey" to a new user whose first edit(s) had to be reverted for good-faith errors, but I can't find any other template more relevant. Hello? JustinTime55 (talk) 19:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

I would support some measure of rename. PrussianOwl (talk) 06:48, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

??? Please clarify that comment to make it meaningful. This template was originally "Welcomevandal" and was renamed to "Welcome-unconstructive". Are you saying you want it moved back?

No, I'm saying I would support moving the name away from anything with "vandal" in it. PrussianOwl (talk) 06:13, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

That's not what I'm asking for. Sometimes newbie's first efforts are incompetently done in good faith, and I'd like the template message to reflect that and welcome them, without leaving the feeling that we're implicitly accusing them of vandalism. First efforts which are truly vandalism are the first steps on the slope to WP:VOA and should be warned, not welcomed. JustinTime55 (talk) 14:11, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Replace {{!}} with |, replace full protection with template protection

Please replace

[[User talk:{{{2}}}{{!}}my talk page]]

with

[[User talk:{{{2}}}|my talk page]]

The {{!}} is unnecessary and shows up in the final welcome message. Also, please convert full protection to template protection. Thanks. —mc10 (t/c) 07:51, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Done. I made a few other tweaks as well, and I've reduced the protection to semi. Let's see if that's enough to keep out vandalism - if not then let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 04:48, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 30 June 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 20:32, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

---

Template:Welcomevandal → Template:Welcome-unconstructive – Having "vandal" in the name of this template is not assuming good faith at all, and is also biting the newcomers. It really makes me hesitant to use this template when welcoming users who are making unconstructive edits. For IPs that have made unconstructive edits, the welcome template is named {{welcome-anon-unconstructive}} for these exact same reasons, which is why I have decided to formally propose that we rename this template to that same style. A guy saved by Jesus (talk) 00:03, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support. This seems to be both an improvement to communications with new editors, and an improvement in consistency. For clarity: the current tile should stay as a redirect. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 00:27, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
• Support Some vandals actually think they're not vandalizing. Randy Kryn 3:15, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Sovereign/^Sentinel 13:48, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2016

The University of Louisiana Monroe changed its name last year to no longer include the "at". I tried to revise and the edits were rejected. This needs to be changed. Warhawk2016 (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)warhawks2016

Warhawk2016 (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Warhawk2016 This is not the place to raise this issue, it should have been raised at Talk:University of Louisiana at Monroe That said, you have now cited a reference for the change, so it should remain. - Arjayay (talk) 14:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, please discuss at Talk:University of Louisiana at Monroe. But no, a PDF brand guide isn't (alone) sufficient to rename the article, change the lead, etc. We use WP:COMMONNAME, which may or may not include "at" at this point. Please take the discussion to the ULM Talk page. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)`

Sorry guys! I didn't realize I was on this talk page. Will relocate to a other talk page now. Sorry! Warhawk2016 (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)Warhawk2016

References

Removing the signature

@PonyToast: To remove the signature, you would need to delete ~~<noinclude />~~. But, at minimum, you should post at WT:TWINKLE before doing so - I think that Twinkle "knows" that this template includes a signature. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:20, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

John of Reading, oh wow, I didn't know Twinkle auto-adds a signature. i was wondering why it was posting the signature twice and thought the template was coded incorrectly. My bad. The Pony Toast 🍞 (Talk) 15:43, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 2 January 2021

Please add a line break after the "==Welcome==", as currently, it just shows as ==Welcome==, instead of showing as a header. JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 15:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

That's not the issue. I've fixed it though. — JJMC89 (T·C) 20:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Remove mention of vandalism

Regardless of the previous use of this template, right now it is the best messaging to use for a new editor that has had their first edits reverted even though they weren't vandalism. The only problem is the mention of vandalism, which I think only serves to put the new user on the defensive. As other editors have mentioned, in instances of true vandalism we just give the user a warning rather than a nice welcome message. I'd love to just use this template without feeling the need to manually remove the vandalism bit after posting. -- Fyrael (talk) 15:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Redundancy

I feel it's very redundant to have TWO links to the task center on the same line. To remove this redundancy, either it should become

• Task Center – need some ideas of what kind of things need doing?

or

• Need some ideas of what kind of things need doing? Go here.

– InterstateFive (talk) - just another roadgeek 17:23, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 23:12, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Edit request to complete TfD nomination

Template:Welcome-unconstructive has been listed at Templates for discussion (nomination), but it was protected, so it could not be tagged. Please add:

<noinclude>{{subst:template for discussion|help=off}}</noinclude>

to the top of the page to complete the nomination. Thank you. #prodraxis ^connect 14:06, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:42, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 21 December 2024

Description of suggested change:

This was previously discussed in 2019 in #Less "bitey", but it never appears to have reached a resolution. It was then brought up again in 2021 in #Remove mention of vandalism but never got a response. I think a good point was made in both cases about the use of the word "vandalism" in the body of the template. A unconstructive edit isn't automatically a case of vandalism, just because it was unconstructive; it could simply just be a bad edit made in good faith. The use of the wording "For more information on this, see Wikipedia's policies on vandalism and limits on acceptable additions." in all cases does seem to imply the contrary, and could be discouraging to a new user who meant well but just didn't know what to do. I recently came across one such edit (at least in my opinion) and thought about using this template; after noticing the wording of it, however, I decided it was probably too harsh to use. It would seem better if there was "optional" wording that could be used instead; wording which didn't necessarily link to WP:VANDAL or WP:NOT, but perhaps linked to Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia or something similiar. Perhaps a |notvand=yes parameter could be added that can be used to let the template know to use such additional wording. On the other hand, maybe the default should be the "notvand" wording with a |vand=yes parameter used to tell the template to use the vandalism related wording.

Diff:

−

"For more information on this, see Wikipedia's policies on vandalism and limits on acceptable additions."

+

"For more information on this, see [[:WP:NEWBIE|Wikipedia's policies on acceptable additions]]."

-- Marchjuly (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 03:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)