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Template:Did you know nominations/Sara Houcke

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 15:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Sara Houcke

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  • ALT1: ... that tiger tamer Sara Houcke became famous for foregoing negative tools like whips to command her tigers and instead used whispered instructions?
  • ALT2: ... that Sara Houcke began performing in circuses at the age of two as a child clown?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Yazathingyan (14th-century minister)
  • Comment: The article was moved from draftspace to mainspace with this edit.
    • Created by Silver seren (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 120 past nominations.

    SilverserenC 02:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC).

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
    • Interesting: Yes
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Long enough, interesting. Article is well-cited, but AGF on paywalled source. Good to go!  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

    @Silver seren: FamilySearch is red here. It is only used for year of birth so it may be ok, will see if others object. Also I archived the article sources so that I could check the hook fact. Bruxton (talk) 23:32, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
    • @Silver seren, Crisco 1492, and Bruxton: Very cool biography! I've had to pull this out of prep because I don't think the hook fact passes muster. The cited Times source says The Ringling publicity machine has dubbed her the "Tiger Whisperer,", which sounds more like this is a marketing/PR term than something in actual wide usage. We could just edit the hook to match, but people tend to complain at errors when we repeat marketing terms uncritically. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 09:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
      • Fair enough - I'm seeing to Google Searching "Tiger Whisperer" first returns a number of other people, including a woman who was ultimately mauled by her tigers. I'll review any alts. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        @Theleekycauldron: I made some comments here before promotion but they were erased with this edit. I put them back in this nomination above your comment and formatted the indents of following comments. About the moniker, I understand the concern, but probably all showbiz nicknames have a marketing/publicity genesis, like the "Dog Whisperer" - Cesar Millan. Or the "Crocodile Hunter" - Steve Irwin. Bruxton (talk) 14:32, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        @Theleekycauldron:, @Crisco 1492:, @Bruxton:, can't we just use "was featured as the Tiger Whisperer"? SilverserenC 21:39, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        @Bruxton and Silver seren: Yes, corporate branding can catch on in mainstream discourse, but the hook doesn't verify because nowhere in the source does it say that this moniker has caught on. She's not widely known as the Tiger Whisperer. As to whether we could just attribute correctly... we could, but I think there would still be a problem at ERRORS because editors generally don't like it when a hook is based on "a corporation has chosen to brand their performer/product this way". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        What exactly would be the complaint at ERRORS if we use something like "was billed as the Tiger Whisperer"? SilverserenC 22:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        People tend to see the repetition of marketing slogans as whole hooks as uncreative, promotional, or both, depending on who you get. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:31, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        Even with the full unshortened hook I originally made above? Even with her having not even been in the position for nearly two decades now and Ringling not even having animals anymore? I honestly don't see the promotion. It's bizarre to claim something from years and years ago to be promotional now. SilverserenC 22:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        @Theleekycauldron: I found the hook interesting @Theleekycauldron: and it is not a circus slogan but a performer's handle. Can we give it a go by attributing it? As Silver seren has said, we cannot be accused of promoting now. Bruxton (talk) 22:45, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
        I don't know how this affects this, but there was apparently another person using the Tiger Whisperer handle (warning: not a fun read) "'Tiger whisperer' mauled to death by big cat in Florida zoo". The Independent. Retrieved 21 June 2024.
        Years later, so Houcke gets it first. And more than one person can have the same nickname anyway. I'm not sure why it would have anything to do with this hook? SilverserenC 23:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
    @Theleekycauldron: I've added two Alt hooks. SilverserenC
    • @Silver seren: thank you, I do appreciate that this is kind of a sucky process. ALT2 is verified and interesting; ALT1 claims that she whispers her commands, a claim contradicted by its source, and it is not approved (although it could easily be workshopped). The "Tiger Whisperer" moniker isn't that literal, I suppose. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:22, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
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