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Template:Did you know nominations/Celie Ellis Turner

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Celie Ellis Turner

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  • ... that despite the classical music education her wealthy family had her study, Celie Ellis Turner chose to join comic opera and farce theatre over her parents' objections?
  • Source: * "Miss Ellis is a graduate of the Villa Maria Convent of Montreal, Canada, and received her musical education under Mme. Kartel, taking a post graduate course at the Metropolitan College of Music in New York." - Celie Ellis, The Sentinel
  • "She comes from one of the best families in New York, her father having been a Congressman from that State and her mother a near relative of ex-Gov. Seymour. Her family objected strongly to her going on the stage..." - At The Gardens, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
  • "Miss Celie Ellis, who has been prominent in comic opera and farce comedy for a number of years..." - Dramatic, Minneapolis Daily Times
  • ALT1 ... that despite her classical music education and her family's objections to her becoming a stage actress, Celie Ellis Turner chose to join the theatre to perform comic opera and farce?
    • Created by Silver seren (talk) and FloridaArmy (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 131 past nominations.

    SilverserenC 19:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC).

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Looks good. Nice work. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

    @Theleekycauldron, BeanieFan11, Silver seren, Fram, and Secretlondon: this nom has been reopened for further thought, following issues raised at WP:ERRORS (peramlink: [1]) about the hook / article integrity (article talks about an argument over theatre acting, not over comic opera specifically) and also a thought that linking the classical music education to the argument with the family with the word despite isn't supported by sourcing. Suggest a rework to make this more robust.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:59, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

    I made corrections to the article along those lines, but then forgot to go back and update the hook. that one's on me! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her)
    Amakuru, this is, honestly, nonsense. Comic opera and farce is the type of theatre acting and performances she went into. They objected to her doing theatre acting and she did anyways, becoming a star in comic opera and farce theatre. Where is the contradiction? SilverserenC 00:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
    As noted, there are two issues that I can see with this. Firstly, the "despite" seems to be misplaced - comic opera is a form of classical music, so it's not like her musical education went to waste while she pursued something totally different. You're inserting a link between those things that isn't sourced. And secondly, the article text and the source specifically say it was stage acting specifically that the family objected to. That might have a logical corrollary that they wouldn't approve of comic opera and farce, but the DYK rules require accuracy in this matter. The hook, article and source must match in what they say, not require logical leaps. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 00:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
    Amakuru, is that ALT better since I've minorly rearranged things? SilverserenC 00:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

    Re-review of ALT requested. SilverserenC 00:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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