Talk:Shkreli (tribe)

Name

This article should be moved to "Shkreli (clan)". Safetidhehyria (talk) 20:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Moved it, and I think the Skrijelj redirect should have its own article for the clan in Sandzak. What do other fellow editors think? Safetidhehyria (talk) 16:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't agree. According to the wikipedia rules all relevant data about some subject should be presented within one article on the subject. There are many small countries in the Balkans and members of all Balkan clans live in more than one state. Take rivers for example. Some rivers on the Balkans flow trough several countries. It would be wrong to create separate articles for the portion of the river which belongs to each of them.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Let's not compare rivers to people. As far as I understand it the Sandzak branch, i.e. the one in the Tutin and Pešter areas, with few exceptions, no longer has an Albanian identity, so it is a Bosnian clan, not an Albanian one. If there are sufficient sources for the Bosnian clan, it should have its own article. Safetidhehyria (talk) 16:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Comparison I used is completely valid. The ethnicity some members of certain clan declare today or country they live in is irrelevant in this case. They are all members of the same clan because they share the same actual or perceived kinship and descent.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll mull over it and will be listening carefully to other editors, but I saw lots of very angry IPs who screamed loudly at the name of the article being Skrijelj when the original location of the tribe is Shkreli, and then they moved to Sandzak via Rugova. Safetidhehyria (talk) 16:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Some other editor with pro-Bosniak position could percieve this clan as originally Bosnian, because members of this clan moved from Bosnia to Albania and then to Serbia. There is WP:NPOV and other wikipedia rules which should be followed.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't think so. No one has a clue as to where in Bosnia they came from. It's just a legend. And it would bring the story that the Illyrians retracted to modern day Albania following the Slavic invasion, which would be speculation, because there is no source to back it up. Anyways I made the move following vox populi, vox dei, but we could go with googlebooks or other wikipedia rules if we need to. Skrijelj doesn't have a majority over Shkreli, actually it is almost inexistant in sources for the clan. I'm afraid it's just you, :-). Safetidhehyria (talk) 17:09, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• No, its not me. User:Skrijelj named this article. If I was to name this article I would probably named it Škrijelji or Škrelji because it is the term used in the sources I would probably use. It would be good to check and what name is most common.
• Edith Durham connected them with Jajce in Bosnia: "I was extremely interested to find that the Maltsia e madhe tribes, more especially the two, Skreli and Hoti, which say they come from Bosnia, the stronghold of Bogomilism, are freely tattooed on the hand, arm and sometimes breast, with designs that I at once recognised as common in certain parts of Bosnia, notably around Jaice, the old capital, where the last king was slain, and in these designs the sun and the crescent moon are almost always factors."
• I think that it is wrong to rename numerous articles like you did and then to come to ask other editors what they think about it (What do other fellow editors think?) --Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Shkreli from Bosnia

I could see why everyone was so confused. The information out there about Shkreli and Skrijelj is poorly written and hard to understand. My father always told me that there was a migration of people that came down from Bosnia and we let them become part of out tribe. Out of respect they change their surname to ours or something similar to it. But the original Shkreli family has been there with the others tribes of Malësia since the split of the Illyrians. Those tribes are the oldest known since the beginning of Albania itself.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shkrel27 (talk • contribs) 04:50, 2 July 2013

Per Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources guideline "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." Can you support your father's claim with such sources?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 06:13, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

It's actually known that supposedly Albanian-speaking peoples lived in Bosnia and had migrated south towards modern-day North Albania. The most commonly used clue is the presence of the surname Zotović among Bosnians, which in translation would normally be Božović (Alb. Zot=BCS Bog). I remember reading about this some years back but I'll look for references to back this up. --Prevalis (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You see all you are doing is spewing some good old Serbian propaganda I can make a website and say whatever I want does that make it fact, because most of the garbage that is coming off of here is from unreliable sites. Another thin I have never met one Shkreli that is Muslim not one. St. Charles I have no clue why you would put he is our patron saint Its St.Nicholas. I have come to the conclusion that this website is broken and is completely false. I'm not even going to bother any more not worth the aggravation.

There are plenty of Muslims that are Shkreli, but they are Škrijelji. Škrijelji self-identify as Bosniaks now but descend from the Albanian Shkreli tribe. Some of them are relatives of mine... --Prevalis (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

This part: "Like many other tribes of Northern Albania, Shkreli came from the region whose population today speaks one of the Slavic languages" was removed due to the fact that the source itself cites Edith Durham. The latter was not a historian, and if we were to use her words as facts a lot of wikipedia articles would need to be updated. DevilWearsBrioni (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Edith Durham might not be a historian but if what she writes coincides with the testimonies of inhabitants who consider themselves Shkrel than it must be accepted as a fact. If a person asks another person about something and the person who is asking the other person writes down and reports the answers of the person who is being asked then that must be considered a fact. Edith Durham simply recounts the narratives of the inhabitants of Shkreli tribe. The Shkreli tribe were Slavs who emigrated from parts of what is known today in the 21st century as Bosnia to escape the Turkish invasion to a part of the world that is known today in 21st century as Albania but during that time was a non-occupied land area and as time evolved they adopted the language of the people surrounding those areas which resembled with what today in the 21st century is known as Gheg Albanian.

It seems to me that this article is approached with bias given that today the majority of Shkrel areas falls within the borders of what after the Great War (WWI) came to be known as Albania. 172.8.196.244 (talk) 23:43, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

The consensus among all Shkrel inhabitants of Albania is that they immigrated there from somewhere else to escape Ottoman incursion. They might not exactly know to point where from, because back then there were no countries as there are today in the 21st century, but they know that they came there from somewhere else. Some even say that they came from what is known today in the 21st century as Nish, Serbia. 172.8.196.244 (talk) 23:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

This is not at all the consensus. There is clear, verifiable evidence that the Shkreli tribe migrated from Albania to Sandzak and elsewhere, not the other way around.--Maleschreiber (talk) 08:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

This page has been hijacked by editors who write alternate history. It is not just Edith Durham that confirms the opposite of what is being claimed in this article but the inhabitants, people themselves testify to the fact that the Shkreli and Hoti tribes migrated to Malsia Madhe from areas that now in the 21st century fall between Bosnia and Serbia. In addition, another myth that is being spread by these hijackers is about the language. The Shkreli and Hoti tribe never spoke Albanian even the ones in Malsia Madhe. They spoke mixed language, for example they used words such as Krajl for King, Zhene for Women, Voda for water, Krajlica for Queen, Gjevojka for Daughter, Tata for Father, Kompire for Patato, Jaran for Lover, Medgje for Arable Land, Brate for Brother, Dobro for Good, Sokol for Goodlooking, Zakon for Law, Mushk for Strong, Mushkarac for Man, Vjec for Old, and so on and so forth. So the idea that the Shkreli and Hoti tribe spoke Albanian is absolutely not true. They continued not to use the Albanian even after the harsh punishments and forced education of Tosk dialect from Zogu, Hoxha, and Berisha regimes, and even today in the 21st century. There are even testimonials of people being poisoned and threatened to death for daring to say that they immigrated from areas that today in the 21st century fall somewhere between Serbia and Bosnia. So please stop spreading alternate history. RevivedCicero (talk) 02:12, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a rather pointless discussion since the facts are quite clear on the matter, these tribes are Albanians. As mentioned by others, if you have evidence from reliable sources on the contrary; then by all means, please share. Since you have cited Durham (a source that is hardly reliable), she refers to these tribes as Albanian throughout her work, noting their Albanian customs. Not once does she refer to these tribes as Slavs. This region was a hotbed of Albanian nationalism since the Ottoman era, before the formation of the Albanian state; as attested to by events such as these Malissori uprising and the Greçë Memorandum. The evidence is clear. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 21:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia talkpages are not Facebook Comments. No Original Research will be taken into consideration if its not backed up by proper reliable and verifiable evidence. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 06:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

The Albanian educational system teaches alternative history as history. Not a single theory of what they teach in school is backed by scientific research and hard evidence. They never mention the fact that the Malisa Madhe tribes fought alongside the Montenegrin King during the Balkans wars and it was the Hoti tribe leader who raised the Montenegrin flag in the Rozafa castle when the Ottoman Turks were kicked out of the Balkans and that the Hoti, Shkreli and Mirdita tribes wanted to join the Kingdom of Montenegro, but the Austrians did not allow it. The schools in Albania also do not teach that the Hoti, Shkreli and Mirdita tribes where brutally forced by the Zogu, Hoxha and Berisha regimes to declare their ethnicity as Albanian, and that Albania has one of the most unreliable statistics when it comes to ethnicities. The Greeks never stop complaining about that. Serbs and Montenegrins should start doing the same.

The good news is that the majority of the population of Shkreli and Hoti tribes have escaped the hell in which the Albanian governments have put them for over 100 years by immigrating to the US and have build remarkable careers in science, medicine, finance, accounting, businesses empires, education, wealth, prosperity and much much more RevivedCicero (talk) 02:13, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

A lot of unsupported mass removals of reliable sources should not be warranted without discussion on the TP. If you have reliable source material for your removals and changes please feel free to share. Extraordinary claims such as "Shkreli in Malesia never spoke Albanian" as you suggest, requires evidence to satisfy. Edith Durham is not an authoritative source on itself, that is why multiple sources are used as in the previous versions. I restored to Durraz0's version which has kept the reliable source's which for some reason were removed without reason. -Excine (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

My talking point was that the Shkreli and Hoti tribe used mixed language. If Shkreli and Hoti tribe used Albanian why would they name their children as Sokol and Prek which in Slavic means falcon and ancestor? My editing is completely warranted and it will be reverted back mister hijacker. RevivedCicero (talk) 06:57, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Reverted to impartial and neutral. Please do not edit my talking points. These hijacker are so dishonest that even modify my talking points. Talking point should never be touched or modified. Please stop!!! RevivedCicero (talk) 08:01, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned above, this is simply not true. The local language spoken in Malësia e Madhe is a form of NW Geg Albanian, as is made clear by linguistic expeditions conducted by linguists. Slavic was never the native language of these tribes. The presence of Slavic names and loanwords (which are not even used to the extent which you claim), means nothing of value. Bosniaks do not speak a mixed Arabic-Turkish-Slavic language simply because they have names such as Ahmed and Mehmed.

These tribes are unanimously referred to as Albanians in the literature and the vast majority of their descendants consider themselves as such to this day. The case is closed. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 15:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I know a high school friend from Shkreli of Northern Albania named Vincenco but nicknamed ""бићек"" (Bicek), and another guy named Leonard but nicknamed ""ћући"" (Cuci), and a girl named Lucia but nicknamed ""боца"" (Boca). Italian names but Slavic nicknames. How is it possible?

In addition, do you agree that there are villages in the Northern Albanian region of Shkrel named ""Деда"" ((Deda)), ""Загора"" ((Zagora)), ""Ћекдеда"" ((Cekdeda)), ""Драгане"" ((Dragani)), and ""Бога"" ((Boga)) all based in Slavic?

Why would these people give their children Slavic nicknames and name their villages in Slavic if they weren't Slavs? Your opinion matters, and please elaborate? 2600:1700:36D0:9B0:5CA1:EE34:A800:F6E9 (talk) 09:40, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Reverted to impartial and neutral. Please do not edit my talking points. These hijacker are so dishonest that even modify my talking points. Talking point should never be touched or modified. Please stop!!! RevivedCicero (talk) 08:02, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

There are barely reliable sources in the main page. Please elaborate of what is meant by ""mass removals of reliable source""? 2600:1700:36D0:9B0:9801:EAF7:547D:978A (talk) 06:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Citations Are Required

Add citations. 2600:1700:36D0:9B0:5CA1:EE34:A800:F6E9 (talk) 08:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Citation Are Required

sotermans and other clique editors please add citations? 2600:1700:36D0:9B0:5CA1:EE34:A800:F6E9 (talk) 09:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I am certainly not disputing the veracity of the article. All I am asking is add reliable sources. There is not a single reliable source to back what the article claims and {{soetermans}} given the experience on Wikipedia should not object to adding reliable sources. 2600:1700:36D0:9B0:5CA1:EE34:A800:F6E9 (talk) 10:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)