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Dev team

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Sergecross73 continues to change this article back to saying Sonic Team despite it having barely any Sonic Team staff before and after. He stands by this because of some poorly written IGN and Gamestop articles that are not from the actual time (nor the developers nor SEGA who actually says this was not Sonic Team!)

Further proof that this should remain as just developed by Sega are found here, (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sonic_CD#Sonic_Team) in one of Sergecross73's messages that concede the fact but he still polices this wiki to his personal opinion. Is personal opinion and drawing lines that aren't there part of what Wikipedia is about? It took that knucklehead long enough to stop crediting Yuji Naka based on his opinion of what an interview that was unrelated to Ristar meant and despite lack of Yuji Naka in the credits. So we have a wiki that's policed by an admin based on facts they made up. Seems like this guy shouldn't be admin, since this is no longer about facts but some guy who just picks whatever despite multiple debates with multiple people upon this VERY ISSUE.

As follows here: (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sonic_CD#Sonic_Team) "As someone who took a deep interest in Sega for a number of years, I was never under the impression (and cannot recall knowing anyone that was under the impression) that Chaotix was developed by Sonic Team proper. Then again, my gut feelings aren't always reliable (Serge recently corrected me on the extent of Sonic Team's involvement with Sonic 3D Blast). In any case, I'm more interested in Ristar—The Gaming Historian argues that Sonic Team should not be credited as the developer, citing an Electronic Gaming Monthly interview in which a Sega employee directly states that "No, [Ristar] wasn't designed by the same development team [as the Sonic games]." While it is also undeniable that a number of former or future Sonic Team staff contributed to the project, I think Serge's initial skepticism on that point was probably justified, and that Wikipedia's current sources are likely parroting confused citogenesis.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:15, 19 July 2017 (UTC) 

   But doesn't the lead staff say otherwise? Even if Ristar wasn't officially made by Sonic Team, judging by the staff, they were clearly in close association with them, as many of them also worked on Sonic CD and Nights, with the latter being officially a Sonic Team production. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

       Yeah, I've always been in favor of using Sonic Team and the developer of Ristar - mainly for the reasons mentioned here - it was made by Sonic Team staff members in an era before they were consistently using the Sonic Team label. That, and how frequently RS's call them the developer. Sergecross73 msg me 18:47, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

           Actually, you haven't, not that it matters—I just have a really long memory. If the Electronic Gaming Monthly interview cited above is accepted at face value, then retroactively attributing Ristar to Sonic Team is a bit like retroactively attributing United Game Artists's output to Sonic Team on the grounds that UGA was later merged into Sonic Team.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

               Wow, I didn't even remember that! Man, good memory. Apologies for that broad statement then - it just appears you remember my Wiki-life better than me. So yeah, looking back, that dif is from Feb 2011, and I did massive rewrites to the article in November 2011 and April 2013. Looking through the page history, it looks like I must have changed my stance on it after all the source hunting I did for it during the rewrites. Sergecross73 msg me 12:44, 20 July 2017 (UTC)"

You as well Dissident93, you guys were clearly informed in this quote and you continue to put your fingers in your ears. I guess Wikipedia is truly written by opinion?

Maybe you guys should change Escape From Monkey Island to being developed by Telltale because people from LucasArts moved on to Telltale and created Tales of Monkey Island? Perhaps all Clover developed games under Capcom should have their wikis changed to say they were developed by Platinum games because those developers moved on too? So better change Viewtiful Joe to say Platinum Games if you want to be consistent in making things up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 07:35, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • We're supposed to go with what sources considered the developer as. Now, if they are clearly wrong, then it should obviously be changed, but what makes you so certain that the source you are citing isn't wrong/misleading either? The "same development team [as the Sonic games" claim could mean that it just wasn't by the lead/A-team that did the Sonic games, but still features members of the studio (which is true for some of the members, like the sound team). Again, not saying you are wrong or that Sonic Team is definitely the developer, but this claim could be seen as dubious. But as this is controversial issue, I think it should just be a generic Sega like we did for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I mean, it's not like that's wrong at all, it's just potentially less accurate. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 08:38, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's...a bizarre, hot take spin on what I've written. Its not that I "wrote it according to my own opinion" or whatever you've accused me of. It's that, at some point between 2011 and 2013 (5 to 7 years ago) I rewrote the article, and in all the reliable source hunting I did in that time, I saw how many sources cited Sonic Team, and added that to the article, with 3 reliable sources that back it. It's been since kept in the article by a variety of experienced editors, not just me. I find it baffling that you're trying to make me out to be the bad guy of Wikipedia, when your approach to handling things has been this and this thus far. Sergecross73 msg me 12:32, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anyways, it's not as simple as a "but it's not in the credits!?" argument you keep making - it's more nuanced. Sega has been inconsistent on how they've applied the Sonic Team name to the old games. They didn't even consistently use the name at all until 1996, as a means of a name recognition for Nights Into Dreams. They didn't list Sonic Team as a developer to Sonic CD either, though reliable source research has shown that Sega has applied the Sonic Team name to multiple different groups of internal developer groups, including a different subset of developers who created Sonic CD. One of the reasons why Sonic Team is applied to Ristar is because it has so many development staff in common with Nights Into Dreams, one of the dev teams of which Sega also applied the "Sonic Team" label to. As this source explained, if you go strictly by the Genesis game credits, the only Sonic Genesis game would be Sonic 1, which would be incorrect. I'm fine with a compromise of listing "Sega" and "Sonic Team" though. Sergecross73 msg me 14:59, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You've used the same three sources for years, you didn't properly research shit. You are using third party sources, not even a direct interview as I posted with the EGM source. Check it. There is absolutely no mention anywhere in any official terms that the game was developed by Sonic Team beyond two poorly written reviews that copied eachother, and Nintendo Life which is a fansite on top of that. You can check the credits you can cross ref Mobygames, but wait you hate Mobygames because you hate facts. You're pathetic. Get your head out of your ass. And no I'm not Triple DDD, multiple people have been challenging you all for years on this. Your answer has always stayed the same and your memory is poor.

Please read WP:NPA. This isn't Twitter. No ones going to bother to read your comments if half of the rant is filled with nonsense about "hating facts" and being "pathetic". Now please calm down and focus. I gave you 3 sources that used Sonic Team (Gamespot and IGN specifically being major sources in the industry). I also linked to 2 other reliable sources that explained how Sega has inconsistently used the label retroactively. Please focus your argument around that. Or waste all of our time and call me a baby or a clown or something. Sergecross73 msg me 02:22, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Again for the 10th time on this page. Just because it's Gamespot and IGN doesn't mean it's correct, it was written decades after the fact from hearsay with no sources. They also blatantly copy eachother. The Nintendo Life article is just silly, you shouldn't even be using that. I disputed the HG101 reference, which doesn't actually say what it does. And the Eurogamer article only touches on Sonic CD, which I agree, could be construed as Sonic Team or A Sonic Team. Again, Knuckles Chaotix would not be to make an apt comparison, yet you keep using Sonic CD as if this is relevant. You are making have to prove stuff you made up with a negative, how is that really even possible without a developer specifically saying it isn't Sonic Team?! Oh wait I did provide that, oops, way to pay attention there! Baby and clown. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 02:29, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're Sonic CD example is also poor because that is not necessarily referring to another team titled "Sonic Team." The Sonic CD one is dubious because it is a project led by Naoto Ohshima, yet in Japan, who was on the original Sonic Team, which later seemed to become a team effort between the US and Japan with Hirokazu Yasuhara leading the US one. So whatever, the Sonic Team credit on Sonic CD isn't exactly right but it's not the same as the Ristar situation so I don't care. Knuckles Chaotix is closer to the Ristar situation as it was a Sega development separate from Sonic Team, sharing many of the same staff as Ristar actually. Nothing I have written or the EGM article I have cited has changed your mind though. I also linked you two to a multitude of magazine scans from the 90s from Ristar Cluster , all of which support it was not developed by Sonic Team.

The whole reason this notion Ristar was developed by Sonic Team or it came from the rabbit Sonic was originally supposed to be and all of that is because people just basically want to fluff out their articles when wanting to write about a game from a couple of decades ago. The reason you can only find recent sources is because they are basically either fans or editors who need to print some content, none of which actually cite their sources either, mind you. But you are just wanting to feel right, on Wikipedia as an admin abusing power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 02:15, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And that HG101 article does not even come close to saying what you are saying it does. Did you write the HG101 article? Because HG101 is not a website that necessarily checks facts. A lot of the lore found on that site is opinions and guesses. In fact, I have submitted a few things in the past for certain HG101 articles that are still there to this day but not necessarily checked, as one they rewrote incorrectly. Still a dubious source written again, decades after the fact, based on fan hearsay.

And to take the argument from earlier, and why it's important: "Actually, you haven't, not that it matters—I just have a really long memory. If the Electronic Gaming Monthly interview cited above is accepted at face value, then retroactively attributing Ristar to Sonic Team is a bit like retroactively attributing United Game Artists's output to Sonic Team on the grounds that UGA was later merged into Sonic Team.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)" YOU AGREED WITH THIS. HELLO ARE YOU READING?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk)

Right off the bat, your argument is wrong. Hardcore Gamer is considered reliable per consensus at WP:VG/S. Sergecross73 msg me 02:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, whatever, HG101 is considered good because Kurt Katala looks over articles, except as I have spoke with him before on his forums, he only started doing that in the last five or so years. This Ristar article was written in 2011 by a Aaron "muteki" Kearns who never once wrote again for the page. There were a lot of fanboy drive by articles that didn't make the cut later on, the Chronotrigger one was removed in particular because of that at some point. I can't imagine Kurt even knows much about Ristar and would check fan info that snuck on to his page. Not everything is reliable there, especially after John Szczepaniak's meltdown and legal battle, of which Kurt has distanced himself from. The new site is even a mess with most links broken and articles poorly archived. The whole place is a mess now. But hey it's on the list so yep, do what you have to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 02:46, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Right, so anyways, its considered reliable, so how about addressing what the sources says? Sergecross73 msg me 02:51, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Scrutiny should be considered with other authors..." The source doesn't say anything different than the Gamespot or IGN articles. It was written in 2011, they were written in 2006. None were written in the '90s or by any source from Sega or Sonic Team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 02:56, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That does not address what the source says. Sergecross73 msg me 03:03, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you are going to be so willingly dense let me try it again, since you can't seem to properly read. "Scrutiny should be considered with other authors..." as in, the author, Aaron "muteki" Kearns, should be scrutinized as unreliable. He does not cite any sources and just makes an assumption. There is no trace that the "reliable" Kurt Kalata has even checked his article nor made edits to it. Googling Aaron "muteki" Kearns shows this person is not a professional writer or journalist in any sense of the word. It is a fan page written by a fan.

And even then, he doesn't confirm anything "Though Ristar is frequently credited as being made by “Sonic Team”, there are no references to it in the game’s credit sequence. In fact, for most of the primary members of the game’s staff, this was their first major job developing for Sega. Most of the same staff, like primary art directors, some programmers, and composer Tomoko Sasaki, would go on to develop NiGHTS…Into Dreams, which was published under the Sonic Team name (and thus crediting the game as such is not entirely inaccurate)." Read this again for what it is instead of what you want it to say based on who got moved to what team afterwards. He himself admits the fallacy. So again, I will use the analogy that you should credit Escape From Monkey Island as being developed by Telltale for the exact same reasons and Platinum Games for all of Clover's releases.

And because you can't seem to recall, lets try this quote again, since you can't connect the dots here (use brain please): 

           Actually, you haven't, not that it matters—I just have a really long memory. If the Electronic Gaming Monthly interview cited above is accepted at face value, then retroactively attributing Ristar to Sonic Team is a bit like retroactively attributing United Game Artists's output to Sonic Team on the grounds that UGA was later merged into Sonic Team.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

               Wow, I didn't even remember that! Man, good memory. Apologies for that broad statement then - it just appears you remember my Wiki-life better than me. So yeah, looking back, that dif is from Feb 2011, and I did massive rewrites to the article in November 2011 and April 2013. Looking through the page history, it looks like I must have changed my stance on it after all the source hunting I did for it during the rewrites. Sergecross73 msg me 12:44, 20 July 2017 (UTC)"

And one more time, the EGM article should be accepted as a more reliable source, since it was and article with a developer from the '90s, checked in print, and was not a freewheeling website with blog posts. In fact, even on that source should trump your pisspoor fluff articles from IGN and Gamestop because unlike those two websites, anything EGM prints does not have any notes and limitations assigned to it.

And also on this site with magazine scans from the '90s, you can see never is Sonic Team mentioned: http://ristar-cluster.info/php-pages/magazine.htm But there's no way to use that site as a source even if I did have any idea how to cite images from old magazines, because you are asking to me to disprove something that is made up in your head. The only proof is that no official source actually says this game was developed by Sonic Team. Zero. None.

And if we are going to play a numbers game, since this strange idea that the amount of staff that went on to Sonic Team means it was made by Sonic Team, then lets break it down by numbers. Knuckles' Chaotix is not credited as developed by Sonic Team on its wiki, and it requires no source to do so for some reason (probably because you didn't work on it). Yet Knuckles' Chaotix has 6 developers who worked on Sonic CD (since you are also contesting Sonic CD means there was a whole different Sonic Team) and Chaotix also has a whopping 18 developers move on to Sonic Team. Ristar however shares one developer with Sonic CD and 7 that went on to work with Sonic Team. So by your logic then, using sheer numbers then Knuckles' Chaotix also needs to be credited as Sonic Team (despite again, nothing saying this), since you are creating inconsistencies between Wikipedia by acting like a stubborn child.

And furthermore, if I break down these developers that went to Sonic Team after Ristar, you have Takeshi Niimura, a game planner, Takumi Miyake, chief designer, Yuji Uekawa, a character designer, Tomoko Sasaki, a music composer, Takuya Matsumoto, an Effect Programmer, Hiroyuki Mitsui and Chieko Nakamura, Manual writers, and last Hideki Yōkaichiya, a tester. Out of these 7 only one is core staff, the rest are peripheral. I find it hilarious that you inadvertently want to use people who wrote manuals for Sega games as your argument.

Then the most important credit, the project director himself, Atsuhiko Nakamura, only ever worked on one other Sonic game. Can you guess which? Yes, he was a director on Knuckles' Chaotix, a game credited to Sega. And even more, if you want to use the designer credited on this actual wiki, Akira Nishino, meaning his quote is deemed important enough to feature, he worked on one sole other Sonic game, Sonic CD, which again wasn't really Sonic Team per se. He has a ton of credits on other Sega games afterwards however, absolutely none being by Sonic Team though. So I guess you are going to turn a blind eye to that one.

So based on everything I just presented multiple times, you are wrong. You're not even going through and responding to the core of anything I'm actually saying anyway, your responses say as much. The fact that Knuckles' Chaotix doesn't even require a source to show a developer just shows how this is absolutely a personal issue with you, Sergecross, and your little buddy Dissident. I can present all evidence in the world, but you only have two credible sources, neither of which would actually trump EGM, per wikipedia rules. Both articles are mimics of eachother and poorly written. The Nintendo Life article is trash and shouldn't even be here. And this is before even speaking of the actual credits in the game and what all of these developers did with their lives. So it's really just you giving undue weight to two articles written in 2006. Why? Because your an admin and you can abuse your power. You're not really supposed to have final say here, but you can since I realize that's how wikipedia works. You say so yourself when you write, "...it looks like I must have changed my stance on it." YOUR STANCE! Wikipedia is not a fan page, numbnuts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 10:41, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And also while we are at it, let's actually look at these sources you cite. You claim the Gamespot review is from 1995. It is not. It says right here it is from 2007: https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/ristar-review/1900-6167207/ It mentions the Sonic Mega Collection as well and starts talking about the Wii. These did not exist in 1995. Also note the Gamespot review never once says that the game was developed by Sonic Team. Look: "Legend has it that when Yuji Naka and his pals on Sega's Sonic Team were sketching out ideas for the character that would eventually become Sonic the Hedgehog, one of the first concepts involved a rabbit that could grab enemies and slingshot its body into them. The rabbit didn't quite fit in Sonic's fast-paced world, but a few years down the line and after numerous Sonic the Hedgehog sequels, some people at Sega decided to transform the character into a star-headed alien and give it its own game." Assuming it did evolve from this concept even though this article says it's a "legend," (unreliable), it still never once credits this game as being developed by Sonic Team.

Let's look at the IGN source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2008/10/07/fond-memories-ristar First this is not a review, this is a blog post, a personal one. He says a few times that Sonic Team developed Ristar. He is mistaken. His memory is off due to him absorbing this incorrect lore: "There are a few reasons I have great affection for Ristar. Back in 1995, I was working at a Software Etc. I read gaming rags during slow hours and saw a few snippets on Ristar that piqued my interest, especially since it was coming from Sonic Team and I was a major Sonic the Hedgehog fan." He claims that he read gaming rags that claimed it was from Sonic Team, except that never happened. The game was never promoted as such in any way whatsoever in 1995. Not in magazines, not on the box, not in the game. In fact had he read this article from EGM (https://archive.org/stream/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly_65/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly_65_djvu.txt), one of the top magazines at the time for gaming news and information, it explcitly states: "Ristar is a fantastic game, and its appearance is similar to the Sonic games. Were there any Sonic influences, and did the Sonic programming team play a hand in its design? No, it wasn’t designed by the same development team. " If you want more proof, check out all of these magazine scans from the '90s at Ristar Cluster: http://ristar-cluster.info/php-pages/magazine.htm Not once is Sonic Team mentioned, the game is only credited to Sega. Levi Buchanan is incorrect, but this is a personal blog post from someone who is not a developer reminiscing when they worked at Software Etc., so it wouldn't hold up anyway. According to WP:VG/S on IGN "Make sure news items are not user-submitted info or blog postings; blog postings from site staff are most likely acceptable." Likely is the key word here.

The last one at Nintendo Life is the earliest one of these sources from 2006 and is an actual review (not a personal blogpost) that continuously claims the game was made by Sonic Team. It provides no source. According to WP:VG/S, "author reliability is needed" when it pertains to Nintendo Life. Corbie Dillard is not a journalist and his only contributions have ever been to Nintendo Life, mostly in forums. He wrote his review based on the same mythos.

So you have three sources. The Gamespot one, from 2008, not 1995, which doesn't actually say anything about the game being developed by Sonic Team, so is irrelevant anyway. The IGN one, which is just a personal reminiscence from an editor that is not a review. And the Nintendo Life one, which is just poorly written and unreliable.

So I have an EGM article from 1994 (again https://archive.org/stream/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly_65/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly_65_djvu.txt) that specifically states from a member of the development staff that Ristar is not a game from Sonic Team. So you potentially have a 1v1 with your IGN article, if we are actually supposed to accept that as credible. The EGM article wins in terms of reliability because it's a properly researched magazine that is regarded highly, with an interview straight from a developer, and from 1994 to boot. Fans of Sonic Team like Sergecross rewriting history for the sake of fluff articles do not get to rewrite history based on rumor, legend, or myth. So he has no excuse here, he's just putting his fingers in his ears. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.44.202 (talk) 12:08, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring is edit warring. You've been at this for some time based on the page history, from other IPs in the past, including outright disruption such as page blanking, and personal attacks against Serge. When there's a conflict in sourcing like this, you need to reach a consensus first. You already know all this, but I'm restating it anyways. I actually lean in your favor on the topic that the EGM source takes precedence here, but "being right" doesn't excuse edit warring. Disruption of Wikipedia will not be tolerated. -- ferret (talk) 12:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break

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@Sergecross73, Dissident93, and TheTimesAreAChanging: The IP is blocked 2 weeks for the edit warring and a years long history of disruptive editing at this article and NPAs towards Serge. However, I do think there may be a solid argument here. I'm not going to rehash the essay(s) above, but the interview from the release period says it wasn't the same team as Sonic. More contemporary reviews seem to have been based on re-released and Sonic collections that lumped everything as "Sonic Team". Thoughts? -- ferret (talk) 12:45, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If we don't want it in the infobox anymore, then we can always add sourced prose with more context on the exact situation to the development section. Whether we classify it as a variant/form of Sonic Team, or a "misclassification as Sonic Team", it's rather clear the game's background and legacy has ties to it, and we shouldn't do a lazy scrub of every mention of it in the article, as the IP has repeatedly done, which doesn't aid the reader either. Sergecross73 msg me 13:18, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd put Sega in the infobox, and suggest a sentence in development such as "In an interview with EGM, ?who stated? that Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic. Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.". Due to the text nature of the archive of EGM, not quite sure who the interview was with. -- ferret (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is ideal. Have the lead/infobox just say Sega (which still isn't wrong), but mention Sonic Team's involvement/ties in the development section. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:40, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Found a full scan of EGM 65. The interview was with Lisa Best (Marketing assistant) and Terry Tang (communications). It's not clear which made the statement. So: In an interview with EGM, Lisa Best and Terry Tang of Sega's marketing team said Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic.(EGM ref) Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.(IGN, etc, refs) -- ferret (talk) 01:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm stuck on mobile until Monday, but I'll write something up then if this is still looking like the consensus going here. Sergecross73 msg me 03:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit late to this conversation (and there seems to be a consensus), but I did want to point out that Ristar is simply said to have been developed by Sega on Sega Forever, rather than Sonic Team. JOEBRO64 23:14, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I actually just noticed that when I made the section below too. The current set up we've recently devised is probably the better way to portray things. Sergecross73 msg me 23:23, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dexstar

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Sonic Team (again)

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I don't wish to dig up all those arguments again - I'm okay with keeping things as is - but I stumbled upon this the other day, and wanted to share it, for future consideration.

The other day, bored, I booted up the PSP version of Sega Genesis Collection on my Vita. I noticed there's a "Museum" option you can chose, where you can read up on the game. I checked the entry for Ristar, which, at the end, said this:

"If Ristar feels like a Sonic the Hedgehog game, there's a reason. It was developed by Sonic Team, the creators of the Sonic titles".

So, perhaps for the first time, we have a Sega-published game directly calling it a Sonic Team developed game.

I can try to take a picture and uploading it if anyone doubts me, though I don't do that much so it could be a struggle. Perhaps some other Sega super-fans can confirm if they own the game, or one of its variants, too. Sergecross73 msg me 00:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why should we believe you, you despicable liar? LOL just kidding. I'm still on the fence about labelling this a Sonic Team production, as Sonic Team as an entity technically still didn't exist at the time... but at least we know that Sega considers it one. JOEBRO64 00:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, yeah, you know me. Decided I would win this argument 1 year later by completely fabricating a source. No, like I said, I don’t wish to change anything really (unless we added a comment in the prose somehow) I just wanted to make a note on the talk page in case the arguments erupt again down the line. I kinda wondered if editors like yourself would have the game, or similar ones, to verify it as well. No biggie if you don’t, or don’t want to check, either though. Sergecross73 msg me 01:16, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Except you fail to mention that the Genesis Collection(s) were developed by Backbone/Digital Eclipse, a third party, and they never actually label the publisher or developer of any game on the disc at all. The trivia is all poorly sourced and not written (or probably even approved) by any Sega Employee. If you also want to say because Sega published it, well on Ristar for mobile devices, which Sega is the publisher and developer for, Sega writes in the description:
"RISTAR HISTORY
- The game was originally released in 1995
- Developed by: SEGA
- Designer: Takumi Miyake
- Lead Artist: Yuji Uekawa"

This was also written in 2017, and you also cite this for the name Dexstar. Notice that Sega officially does not credit Sonic Team, Yuji Naka, or any kind of Sonic Team project you think it should be. They accurately credit Takumi Miyake and Yuji Uekawa as the official credits in game, which you attempted to debate at some point for some reason. As stated before Takumi Miyake's other game credits from that period are "landscape" design on Sonic CD, which as you know well is not counted as a Sonic Team game, and "Original Character Concept/Chief Graphic Designer" on Knuckles Chaotix, which you also know is not a Sonic Team game. He only worked on an official Sonic Team title afterwards as a world artist on Nights Into Dreams and then left to work at Konami. And as you also already know Yuji Uekawa did not work any Sonic Team developed game nor was a part of Sonic Team until Sonic Jam and subsequently Sonic Adventure. Wouldn't it seem odd for them to get all of this information correct and then confirm the obscure Dexstar trivia for you but completely leave out the nonsense about Sonic Team or that Yuji Naka was a lead design as you originally had on this page years ago?
I have no idea why you are constantly so keen to incorrectly attribute the credit for this game and you are directly responsible for the lazily sourced info on your page getting out on lazy blogs over the years. Are you a fan that needs Yuji Naka to actually be Sega's answer to Shigeru Miyamoto? Because he's not. He has been involved with poorly made and poorly reviewed games over and over since he has left Sega. And if not Yuji Naka, why is it so important for you to go back and incorrectly credit the game to Sonic Team? The modern team has also been continuously involved with poorly made game after poorly made game racking up mediocre to bad reviews. Can you not just enjoy Ristar for what it is, a Sega developed game at a time when just Sega developed many great games instead of later problems at the company taking them down including poorly received Sonic games one after another until the series became a joke? Why do you want to tarnish the legacy of the game and give fuel to bloggers and Youtubers who quickly source their info from wikipedia for their superficial blurb?

I mean, Sega still published Genesis Collection, so it's not like it's unauthorized commentary. It's a pretty far fetched theory to think Sega would publish a game and not review the in-game trivia. Not that it matters, this wasn't used to cite any additions in the article, now, or 2 years ago when I wrote the above comment. Sergecross73 msg me 17:00, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Release/promotion source

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