Talk:Pseudo-Abdias

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 September 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Confused content added by Paul Bedson

I am going to remove these two paragraphs:

The manuscripts were copied in Ancient Greek by Saint Theodore in 826 CE, Constantinople and shortly after translated into Latin by Anastasius Bibliothecarius between 850 and 878 CE.^[1]

Meredith Parsons Lillich has studied Bartholomew's martyrdom in the stained glass at Reims Cathedral. She suggested that the original Greek versions of the manuscript described Bartholomew being martyred by flaying instead of the traditional beating. Flaying is described in De ortu by Isodore, the Brevarium Apostolorum and The Golden Legend. Latin manuscripts that describe beating are in the collection of the Vatican library Reg. lat. 466 and the Reims Bibl. mun. manuscript 1407 (both dated to the eleventh century and well adorned with no scribbly notes). Lillich highlights that the Saint-Thierry manuscript (Bibliothèque nationale de France lat. 5563) in the Pseudo-Abdias is covered in notations and alterations. She suggests the stained glass programmers of Reims were aware of the Greek "flaying" sources instead when they depicted the roundel in the center of Reims bay 106.^[1]

There is no problem with Lillich's book; the problem is that, if you actually read what she wrote, and compare it to the above summary of what she wrote (mostly the work of the now-banned User:Paul Bedson), you realise that the above is a rather distorted and confused recitation of what she has to say. For example, the first point, that Pseudo-Abdias was "copied" in Ancient Greek by St. Theodore and then translated into Latin by Anastasius Bibliothecarius – if you actually read what Lillich has to say, it is clear she is talking about a completely different book (p. 46):

The central roundel of Reims Bay 106 (fig. 54) depicts not the beating but the flaying of Bartholomew, which is not in the Pseudo-Abdias. This creative martyrdom, standard in Greek texts, was known early in the West via Isidore's De ortu and the Breviarium Apostolorum and later via the Golden Legend, where Voragine identifies his source as St. Theodore the Studite. Here is a likely explanation for why it was adopted at Reims. The life of Bartholomew written in Greek by St. Theodore (d. 826), a theologian in Constantinople, was translated into Latin in Rome by Anastasius the Librarian ca. 850–78. The Reims programmer, if he worked at the library of Saint-Thierry, as I have suggested, would have found there not only the Pseudo-Abdias manuscript now in Paris but also the richly abundant textual material on Bartholomew. The apostle was the patron of that abbey, and their rich library owned at least two copies of the Anastasius translation of his life: Vatican, Reg. lat 466 (eleventh century) and Reims, Bibl. mun., MS 1407 (eleventh century). Both are lavishly decorated. Moreover, thesection on Bartholomew (fols. 96v–103v) in the Saint-Thierry manuscript of the Pseudo-Abdias (Paris, BnF, lat. 5563) is crowded with corrections and marginal notes; the Bartholomew entry is the only one so annotated. Anyone using that manuscript would have been made aware of the flaying martyrdom found in the abbey's precious manuscripts of the life of Bartholomew composed by St. Theodore and translated by Anastasius.

Lilich is trying to explain why a particular stained glass image disagrees with the text of Pseudo-Abdias, and does so by citing completely different manuscripts. Bedson's text completely confuses those other manuscripts with Pseudo-Abdias. And, much of what she has to say here is simply irrelevant to this article, since this article is about Pseudo-Abdias, not about how other distinct manuscripts influenced stained glass windows at Reims. I'm going to replace all this with a far simpler statement, which I feel is an accurate summary of what her book has to say about this topic, without going into excessive detail:

The art historian Otto Demus argued that Pseudo-Abdias was a significant influence upon the designers of the mosaics of St Mark's Basilica in Venice.^[2] Meredith Parsons Lilich sees the same influence of Pseudo-Abdias in the stained glass of Reims Cathedral.^[2]

I also will remove this paragraph:

Book eight covers the life of Bartholomew and describe him healing a lunatic, then being invited to meet a King and cure his daughter. It later describes his death by battery.^[1]

It is accurate, but it just seems rather arbitrary for us to pick out one event at random from this manuscript, just because a source happens to discuss it. (It is not arbitrary for Lilich, because it is significant in understanding one particular stained glass window at Reims, but while explaining every stained glass window at Reims is the point of her book, it is not the point of this article.) SJK (talk) 12:55, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Meredith Parsons Lillich (1 September 2011). The Gothic Stained Glass of Reims Cathedral. Penn State Press. pp. 46–. ISBN 978-0-271-03777-6. Retrieved 10 November 2012.
^ ^a ^b Meredith Parsons Lillich (1 September 2011). The Gothic Stained Glass of Reims Cathedral. Penn State Press. p. 24. ISBN 978-0-271-03777-6. Retrieved 28 April 2016.

[Lillich2011-1] Meredith Parsons Lillich (1 September 2011). The Gothic Stained Glass of Reims Cathedral. Penn State Press. pp. 46–. ISBN 978-0-271-03777-6. Retrieved 10 November 2012.

[Lillich2011a-2] Meredith Parsons Lillich (1 September 2011). The Gothic Stained Glass of Reims Cathedral. Penn State Press. p. 24. ISBN 978-0-271-03777-6. Retrieved 28 April 2016.

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