Talk:Polish minority in Ireland

A fact from Polish minority in Ireland appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 May 2008, and was viewed approximately 2,043 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Polish minority in Ireland is the country's largest minority group apart from British people?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/May.

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On 23 November 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Poles in Ireland. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

"Grocery store"

It should say "sklep spożywczy". The Irish, as always, excelled). Sincerely, Emenrigen (talk) 05:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Four editors including the proposer argued per WP:CONSISTENCY, however, we have three editors opposing that. Following the discussion further, a proposal to move to Polish people in Ireland received a little discussion, hence we are left with no consensus. If there should be a need to use "Polish people", a new WP:RM should please be initiated. (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:22, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Polish minority in Ireland → Poles in Ireland – The term 'Poles in Ireland' is more straight forward than 'Polish minority in Ireland' and would bring the title inline with all other '[Nationality/Ethnicity] in Ireland' pages as listed here. 2001:BB6:B84C:CF00:DEE:3283:8F7A:3C9F (talk) 16:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Raladic (talk) 18:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per our general practice with respect to groups from specific other countries in a given country, who are nearly universally the minority in whatever other country they are in. BD2412 T 17:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Support~~ per most in Category:Polish minorities even though that category uses the term "minorities". Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Striking per Amakuru. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Corresponding move request at Talk:Polish minority in the Czech Republic#Requested move 23 November 2024. Theparties (talk) 21:18, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:PRECISE. "Poles" has many meanings, and indeed is a disambiguation page. Now of course the north and south poles aren't in Ireland, but the nomenclature would logically extend to "Poles in Antarctica", which is clearly ambiguous. Best to keep as is per the stable status quo, it's a clear and obvious title. — Amakuru (talk) 09:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is how all the other articles are titled, e.g. Poles in Iceland, Poles in Latvia, etc. I don't think it's realistically ambiguous as an encyclopedic topic. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting to give more time to form consensus - should there be a separate RM to make all of these consistent as brought up in the discussion? Raladic (talk) 18:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Frankly I find the proposed term disrespectful. Ceoil (talk) 23:29, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I think that "Poles in Ireland" would be quite misleading. KOLANO12 3 15:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think 'Polish people in Ireland' could be a more favourable option than 'Poles in Ireland' as it avoids any unwanted ambiguity and would pattern with pages such as 'Chinese people in Ireland'. 2001:BB6:B817:800:E496:706B:A3CE:EDC2 (talk) 17:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree; there is to my ear something demeaning in the tone of the article title "Poles in Ireland". Ceoil (talk) 19:09, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Graham (talk) 07:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support for consistency with the many pages in Category:Polish minorities. "Poles" is not ambiguous in this context; not even Antarctica has plural "poles". If the term is indeed pejorative, then, regardless of how this discussion is closed, the pages in Category:Polish minorities should all be part of a single Requested Move, and a much larger discussion must be had. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 20:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is that not though, Wikipedia:Use other stuff exists? I just cant see why we'd move a page to an obviously offensive title, just for consistency with other poorly named articles. The extension is "Paddy's in Poland". They are not "Poles", they are "Polish people". Ceoil (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support moving to Polish people in Ireland, the current title is odd and disrespectful. I think this alternative can reach consensus, so Crouch, Swale, Amakuru, Ceoil, and Kolano123, are you okay with this alternative title? Toadspike [Talk] 11:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Better than Poles in Ireland, but it still seems ambiguous, eg tourists. Ceoil (talk) 13:49, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Polish people" includes tourists but "Polish minority" doesn't? I'm not sure how they're appreciably different, aside from "minority" implying that they're oppressed. Besides, if there is significant Polish tourism in Ireland, I don't see why that couldn't be included here as well. Toadspike [Talk] 16:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That might be fine but its inconsistent with others but due to the ambiguity with the usual title it might be best. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Toadspike, I'm not sure how you get from the demographically factual term "minority" to "oppressed", and minority implies residency. My experience, although anecdotal by definition is that Poles have very successfully integrated. My point, though on reflection not well made and perhaps a bit silly, was that that "Poles in Ireland" sounded a bit "trip advisor". Imo the current title "Polish minority in Ireland" better reflects the topic of their significant societal and economic contribution to the country. From my own city, it widely thought the Jack Lynch Tunnel would never have been built unless we had Polish workers at the time. Ceoil (talk) 00:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify...Can we please say "Poilsh People" rather than Poles, and think the word "minority" being a slur in this context is silly. Ceoil (talk) 00:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree that we should say "Polish people" instead of "Poles".

I never said that "minority" is a slur, but I stand by my claim that "minority" often has negative connotations (marginalization, oppression, failure to integrate) and is not entirely neutral, which makes it unsuitable for an article title when better options are available. Looking at Merriam-Webster (definition 3a) or our article on minority groups, you will see that this opinion is backed up by a wide variety of reliable sources. Toadspike [Talk] 23:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.