Talk:Old Albany Academy Building

Untitled

I have worked in this building for over five years and never once heard anyone call it the Joseph Henry Memorial. That refers to the statue, not the building. Everyone in Albany that I have ever spoken to calls this building "Academy Park". I'd be willing to bet if you asked ten people who worked there to point out the Joseph Henry memorial building they'd have no idea what you were talking about. - DMorpheus2 (talk) 16:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I admit there was a quandary in naming this. Originally it was a subsection of the Albany Academy article, because that's how it was named when it was listed on the Register (the fact that it hadn't been the Academy building for about 40 years at that point notwithstanding). I decided on this name because that's what it's called in Albany Architecture, one of my sources (Addendum: The Lafayette Park Historic District NRHP nom also refers, on page 4, to "the old Albany Academy building (also called the Jospeh Henry Memorial)"). I agree that the name of the statue has probably been conflated with the building there.

But all the same, I don't think it's accurate to call it Academy Park. I can understand if all the school district employees (I presume you're one?) call it that, in the same metonymic way that New York City police officers refer to the department headquarters as 1PP; the district's website adopts that usage as well because the building's mailing address is 1 Academy Park. However, Academy Park is technically the name of the surrounding two-acre park, which is not school district property (FTM, neither is the building—it's leased from the city) and which is separate from Lafayette Park next door (so to speak).

I suppose something like "Old Albany Academy Building" might work better. When I wrote Old Poughkeepsie YMCA some time back, I named it that way because, while it had been the Y when it was listed, it wasn't anymore—and the Y had its own newer building, so I couldn't just use the Register's name for it. Daniel Case (talk) 18:52, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

With respect, you've got a few facts wrong. I know the park itself is properly called " Academy Park", but that is what the building is called also. The City School District of Albany absolutely owns the building, I assure you. There is no lease. The park itself has two tracts, one bit is school district property and the other is city property ("Lafayette park" - you're correct about that part, although most people are unaware because there is no boundary or any physical marker; it all looks like one tract of parkland).

No one calls it "The Old Albany Academy Building" either. I can assure you everyone calls the building "Academy Park" ; its how it is referred to in district literature; mail addressed that way will arrive. I don't know how much more evidence we need. You may not think it is accurate but the postal service does, the school district does, and anyone who is involved with the building does. You seem to be admitted you essentially made this up. I love Albany and appreciate your efforts to publicize this beautiful building, but the article is terribly misleading and would mystify most people who live here.

Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 19:14, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Made up? I've got two reliable sources (albeit older ones) backing that usage up. I couldn't find anything more recent, no news coverage or anything, that uses "Academy Park" to refer to the building as opposed to the park as a whole. "Old Albany Academy Building"—well, I don't doubt that most people don't use the name, but at least it leaves no doubt as to what is being referred to.

Yet another instance where we're up against the limitations of our verifiability policy. If you can find some reliable sourcing on this, like a news story, please put the link here (Hey, maybe someone should call the Times Union about this—it would generate some helpful reporting). Or, honestly, SHPO should get on the ball and submit an updated application for Academy Park that would include the building, statute and park as contributing resources. Frankly, I think Henry's discovery justifies National Historic Landmark status for the building. Either way would allow us to rewrite the article under the appropriate title.

I was aware of the property split even before I expanded Lafayette Park Historic District—it was the reason Occupy Albany got to stay in the park longer. I was not aware that the building had become district property, although it makes sense that it would be—Albany Architecture came out in the late 1980s and said only that the city had bought it in the 1930s, which the academy's history corroborates and clarifies as having occurred just before the Depression. Is there any published history of the school district somewhere? That would probably make a good source as well (and not just on this issue). Daniel Case (talk) 19:49, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The district website, albanyschools.org, lists its contact information as follows:

1 Academy Park

Albany, NY 12207

(518) 475-6000

Fax: 475-6009

Staff offices are located at Academy Park unless noted otherwise.

I looked up several staff contacts just to see how their addresses are listed. All say "1 Academy Park". I then searched the district site for the term, "Joseph Henry Memorial". No hits; no such content appears on the district site at all.

Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:08, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

With all respect, "1 Academy Park" is a mailing address. It doesn't demonstrate to me that that's the name of the building, even for the district's purposes (unless we want to call the article "Building at 1 Academy Park", like this listing elsewhere in Albany and so many other NRHP listings known by their addresses alone because they can't find good evidence for any particular name. But probably not ...). It's true that there is unlikely to be, say, a "3 Academy Park." But that doesn't by itself make "Academy Park" the common name for the building, any more than the district's non-usage is of itself evidence that that isn't what we should call it. Daniel Case (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, I give up. This article is simply wrong. I've offered pretty good evidence of that. The current (since the 1970s) owner of the building calls it Academy Park. But you know better. I don't know what else to say. DMorpheus2 (talk) 12:56, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I just called the school district, 518-475-6010, whose rep confirmed the building is named "Academy Park"; that mail so addressed will arrive; that the building is owned by the school district; that no one uses the name "Joseph Henry" or any variation of it; that in 13 years of employment she had never heard the building referred to in that way; that "Academy Park" appears on the district's letterhead.

Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:12, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not doubting you. I'm just saying that I have no way, under Wikipedia policy, to state that the building is officially named Academy Park. Your research is commendable, but as it is it's original and cannot be the basis for naming the article that way (at least not if it's an article about just the building—more on that below). See here:"Wikipedia editors are not indifferent to truth, but as a collaborative project, its editors are not making judgments as to what is true and what is false, but what can be verified in a reliable source and otherwise belongs in Wikipedia." If Paul Grondahl at the Times Union sees this page and this talk page and decides to write an article about this, then we'd have something closer to a reliably sourced report that could allow us to change the name of the article.

Or ... I could rewrite the article so it's about the park, including the building, and rename it. Would that work? Daniel Case (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Here are a few sources for the building name.

Employment opportunities - http://www.albanyschools.org/district/Employment/Inserts.pdf

Where does it say to respond? City School District of Albany, Office of Human Resources, Academy Park, Albany, NY 12207.

Request for Bids - http://www.albanyschools.org/district/Documents/RFPs/2012-13/E-Rate_RFP_cover_1-13.pdf

Location for Bid Receipt: Albany City School District Business Office Academy Park—Second Floor

District newsletter, most recent edition - http://www.albanyschools.org/district/communications/publications/Newsletters/2012-13/Budget/Budget.newsletter.FINAL.pdf

This flyer lists "1 Academy Park" as the district's location.

I don't see anything in a search of the Times Union, and I suspect that's because everyone knows what the building is called.

With respect, I think these sources are far more persuasive than anything now in the article. Surely what the owner of a building calls the building has more weight than the sources listed.

If there is to be an article about this building it should be called "Academy Park (building)" to distinguish it from "Academy Park (public park)" but most certainly not Joseph Henry Memorial. I have no opinion on an article about the statue of Mr. Henry located in Academy park (park).

DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:39, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

If we were to go by all these sources, we'd have to call the building "1 Academy Park", then, because that's all that's used. While plenty of buildings we have articles on are indeed formally known by their addresses (like One Police Plaza, as mentioned above, or 1000 Park Avenue), I don't see "1 Academy Park" used for any purpose but mailing addresses. If you think we should call the building that, I'm OK with it then.

• "I don't see anything in a search of the Times Union, and I suspect that's because everyone knows what the building is called." The "obvious" isn't always obvious; see also The Pope is Catholic. As I noted also above, per WP:UCN: "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article."

  The Times Union's archives, at least those available online, are often wonderful but they are not as complete as one would like. Maybe an article that would settle this is not available online (I'm looking for something like "The school board, meeting at Academy Park, decided that ..." or "Superintendent Joe Blow, interviewed in his spacious Academy Park office ..."). Something outside the context of a mailing address that would go a long way to establishing widespread informal use of "Academy Park" to denote the building where the school district has its offices. Perhaps the library has some hardcopy clip files, or Heritage Albany.

  Oh, this is interesting. In Mayor Erastus Corning: Albany Icon, Albany Enigma a book written just six years ago by none other than Paul Grondahl, he describes the building as "... the old Albany Academy, which now houses the Albany Board of Education offices, located in Academy Park at Park and Elk streets ..." Seems he's drawing an implicit but unmistakeable distinction between the name of the building and the name of the park here. I humbly submit that if Paul Grondahl doesn't call the building Academy Park, and the name is not used in the newspaper he works for, maybe it's not as commonly used around Albany as you'd like to believe. Now I really think I should call or email him about this.

• "I think these sources are far more persuasive than anything now in the article." As I said, I'd like to see something that isn't the district's mailing address. I don't doubt that everyone in the district calls the building Academy Park; however,your say-so is not a reliable source (per se, not as a judgement of your credibility).
• "Surely what the owner of a building calls the building has more weight than the sources listed." Per WP:ON: "Official English names are candidates for what to call the article, because somebody presumably uses them. They should always be considered as possibilities, but should be used only if they are actually the name most commonly used." This is what we're stuck on. Daniel Case (talk) 19:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi there. Daniel requested I come over here and comment on the naming of the "Joseph Henry Memorial" NRHP site. Full disclosure: Daniel and I have worked on a number of articles together in the past, including the listing of the NRHP properties in the city of Albany (which is probably why he's over at this page to begin with). I'm a Troy resident and also wrote the Albany, New York article a few years ago (source)

1. I think we can all agree that Joseph Henry Memorial is not the appropriate name for the building. The statue in front of the building is really the memorial.
   • I'm beginning to agree with that, despite my own reliable sources. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a name that older residents, particularly those in the preservation community, knew it by. It would be interesting to look at press clips from the building-rededication era—maybe they actually did rename the building at that time, but obviously it didn't stick since it does sound more appropriate for the statue, and younger people just never got into the habit of using it. Sort of like how, down here, you now hear only older residents refer to Route 17 as "the Quickway."
2. Colloquially, I had always known the park (not the building) to be known as Academy Park.
3. I had always known the building to be called "The Old Albany Academy" (some people add "building" to the end of the title, some don't).
4. I've never heard the building called Academy Park, but then again I don't live in the district. There's a possibility that over time (let's say the last 30 years), the vernacular has turned the name into the de facto title of the building. But then again, there's no WP:RS for that transition and at this point, Daniel's right about the reference from Paul in the Corning book.
5. I agree with Daniel's assessment of the address. A mailing address really doesn't impact what a building is called or how it's titled and if you had to err on the side of safety, I would agree with the "Building at 1 Academy Park".
6. In the end, I think this should be called Old Albany Academy Building and I think Paul's book is a good source for that. You could always email or call him though. He wrote the article cited above and has some knowledge of Wikipedia now.
   • As I said, I'm coming around to this ... it's certainly less ambiguous. Daniel Case (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
7. This building is hard to get a good picture of. :( All the trees, while beautiful in the summer, really block the sunlight. I'll see if I can't do better sometime this summer. Clearly I need to go in the morning; the current photo was taken in the afternoon and ruined the lighting entirely.

upstateNYer 05:24, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Does it bother anyone that nothing the school district publishes refers to the building as the Joseph Henry Memorial? In this case, absence of evidence really is evidence of absence. DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:45, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's evidence that the school district doesn't call it that. Based on the above, I'm going to rename it Old Albany Academy Building in the next day or two. And I'm going to email Paul Grondahl. Daniel Case (talk) 23:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't mean this to be snarky, but, the school district is the owner. As I mentioned above, surely that has great weight. DMorpheus2 (talk) 14:32, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

It does, as WP:ON says, but it is not the only weight. That photo does, however, at least conclusively demonstrate that that's what the school district refers to the building as. However, whether that's the common term for it throughout the city as a whole seems to be disputed. Daniel Case (talk) 17:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

With the deepest respect to Paul Grondahl, there is an error in the sentence cited above, "the old Albany Academy, which now houses the Albany Board of Education offices, located in Academy Park at Park and Elk streets ". The Board of Education doesn't have an office. Members work out of their homes. The City School District has offices, and they are located in this building we're discussing. DMorpheus2 (talk) 16:56, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that part makes sense ... I have never seen a school district office building, large or small, in any state, have dedicated office space for the board members or trustees. You'll have to take that up with Grondahl, though—it's sort of a common mistake for journalists to make (as (ahem) most people understand what they mean). Daniel Case (talk) 17:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the offices are all technically the school board's since all the property in the district is owned by the board as a collective body. I'm sure many of their meetings are held in the Albany High auditorium (just assuming) but some may be held in conference rooms at the administrative offices. Regardless, Paul's right in both what he meant and how it reads. He really should have said "administration offices" to be explicitly clear, but he isn't wrong. Source: I'm a school board president. upstateNYer 02:15, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Dan, I presume that even though you'll move this page to Old Albany Academy Building, you'll start the article as "The Old Albany Academy Building, also known locally as Academy Park, is a ..." I think that would be the best compromise in this situation. upstateNYer 02:25, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Yep. And I will also add "...formerly known as Joseph Henry Memorial" because that aspect is supported by the sources.

BTW, if you're going to take a morning shot of the building (and this is the right time of year to do it), see if you can get down I-787 at the same time of day and get a panorama shot of the South End–Groesbeckville Historic District from the shoulder somewhere around Exit 2 or 3. It's a shot I've always wanted to get but ... I don't live up there so I'm not likely to be there in the a.m. Daniel Case (talk) 02:38, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Paul Grondahl emailed me back and says he's never known the building as anything other than the old Academy building. He read this and says we've done more research than he has. So, another vote for the redlinked name. Daniel Case (talk) 22:34, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone wants to include this in the article, but, here is a photo of the original construction plaque now located in the lobby of Academy Park.

Yeah, we could use that.

While you're at this, I think that Albany Architecture mentions a nice staircase or something in the lobby that Reynolds had put in during the renovation ... I didn't mention it because I would have liked to have a broader description of the interior to put it in context. Is that something you could photograph? Daniel Case (talk) 16:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure, probably not in the next few days but yes, I'll do that. There's also a beautiful meeting space/ballroom on the second floor. In exchange, please rename the article "Academy Park Building" ;) Just kidding; well, half-kidding. Grondahl's response is no more compelling than my initial claim at the top of this page. I cannot get over the fact that the owner of the building long ago adopted this name and we aren't using that name. With friendly regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 16:36, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, as I've said in this case, we're guided by how we have always interpreted our naming conventions, as I've noted. It doesn't have to be final. If the school district were to begin seriously pushing for the use of "Academy Park" to refer to the building, to the point that that name got used regularly by the media, we'd have grounds for renaming the article under those policies.

There's a precedent for this sort of thing prior to Wikipedia's existence. About 20–25 years ago, if you woke most people in the northern half of the Washington metropolitan area up in the middle of the night and asked them what they called the northerly of the two bridges that carry the Washington Beltway over the Potomac River, they'd have groggily told you "The Cabin John Bridge". But the American Legion, after whom the bridge had been named when originally built, with a sign on both sides of the bridge using its official name, always gritted their teeth when they heard "Cabin John Bridge" used on traffic reports. So, they held a rededication ceremony and leaned on the media to call the bridge its official name, at the expense of the common name. It worked, as the article title in the link indicates. On visits to DC I haven't heard anyone call it the Cabin John Bridge in a long time.

On Wikipedia, we also have articles about the post offices in Nyack and Pearl River, since they're listed on the Register as well. In the last decade, both of them were renamed by Congress after the cops killed in the 1981 Brinks robbery and a local man who died heroically in Vietnam, respectively (and they're hardly the only post offices to get this sort of honor). Yes, that makes those names the official name preferred by the owner. But no one else uses them, so we call them "United States Post Office" with the community in question as the disambiguation term, because that's the common name. Daniel Case (talk) 16:59, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, in theory we agree. Every time I re-read the common name policy I come back to the (for me, forehead-slappingly obvious) fact that every single person I know (employees or students' parents) uses the word "Academy Park" to describe the building, as does the district letterhead and its brochures. None of these documents refers to the building any other way. regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:04, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I'll be moving the article tomorrow although I will be a) out of town and b) busy for at least some of that time. Daniel Case (talk) 21:10, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I can't believe I missed this, but the City School District of Albany page shows, quite clearly in the logo at the top of the page, the "Academy Park" usage for the building. DMorpheus2 (talk) 14:34, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Turned out the last two days were more exhausting and busy than I had expected. Now I'm aiming for Monday. Daniel Case (talk) 04:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Deed

I have a copy of the deed to this building, from the 1986 sale of the building, showing "Academy Park" as the name of the building. I'll post it as soon as I figure out how (its a large .tif file). Regard, DMorpheus2 (talk) 19:11, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Still wouldn't override the apparent use of "Old Albany Academy Building" as the most common name for the building in the Albany area generally. Though it would make it the district's official name for it. Daniel Case (talk) 22:47, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

What "apparent use" ? This is getting silly. I've provided source after source. DMorpheus2 (talk) 02:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

But none that established that "Academy Park" is common usage outside of the school district, in the Albany community at large. You seemed to recognize that when I posted what Paul Grondahl said to me in email (if you'd like, I'll forward you the actual email). It is an official name, I have no doubt, but it's not the common name within the entire Albany community. Daniel Case (talk) 03:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I tried the zip code locator of the United States Postal Service. "Academy Park" yields the correct zip code and business name. "Old Albany Academy Building" yields no hits. "Joseph henry Memorial" yields no hits. That's a usage outside the school district. Whether it is 'common' or not, I don't know.

I see no evidence here at all that your claim is true. How do we know the 'common name within the entire Albany community' ? Did someone take a name-recognition poll? Because Paul says so? The building has been owned for 27 years by an organization that calls it "Academy Park". The deed language makes it obvious that that name was already in use when the building was purchased. I cannot imagine a more dispositive source than the deed. Let's imagine this article were only now being written......wouldn't we go with "Academy park" based on the evidence I've provided? DMorpheus2 (talk) 04:47, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

No; you've only demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that the school district considers that the building's name and uses it internally. As for the rest of your arguments, let's take them one by one:

• "How do we know the 'common name within the entire Albany community' ? Did someone take a name-recognition poll?" Well, IIRC we looked for evidence that that name was used broadly. Your response after saying you couldn't find anything in the Times Union archives was that it was so obvious that it didn't need to be said.

  Well, I just did that search myself, with a little refinement ... and check this out! A letter to the editor (I presume from the formatting) dated 2011 about the general untidiness of Academy Park which reads, in relevant part: "The old Albany Academy building, or Joseph Henry Memorial, is a precious period jewel. In most cities, this architectural treasure would be illuminated at least for a few hours in the evening."

  Wow! Not only is that yet more evidence for the current name of the article as the common name generally used outside the CSDA, here's a contemporary Albanian using this name for the building that I originally used for the article that you say you've never heard of in all the time you've worked for the school district. Hmmm ... A search on "Academy Park", by contrast, didn't yield any results with the term used for the building.

*"Because Paul says so?" Well, him, Matt Wade (himself president of another Albany-area school board), and now this guy who wrote the letter to the T-U I quoted above.

*" The deed language makes it obvious that that name was already in use when the building was purchased. I cannot imagine a more dispositive source than the deed." Deeds are dispostive as to who owned the property and when, assuming that information is accurately recorded (which, I should hasten to add, I'm not doubting here). As for what a property is called ... well, I'd very much like to see that on the deed, but frankly if we went by most property deeds our article titles would read, in part, like "... thence northerly along a line 136 feet 6 inches to a metal spike, thence northwesterly along the edge of Pine Street ..." You get the point. Daniel Case (talk) 17:14, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I look forward to you moving the UH-1 Iroquois article to 'UH-1 Huey' then. Because "Iroquois" is without doubt the official name, but not the common name. Oddly, I see precisely the opposite argument on that talk page. One wonders. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

According to that discussion, it seems to be preferred practice at WP:MILHIST to use the official name for all articles about military equipment, a decision they're allowed to make for that category of articles as it's stricter than policy. Note also that we now use common names, rather than scientific names, for plant and animal species where they have them, such as Cockatiel and not Nymphicus hollandicus. Daniel Case (talk) 00:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: You might wish to check out Bell Huey family, which is basically a list of all the variants of that model. Daniel Case (talk) 02:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Here's the image of the deed from Feb 28, 1986, which reads in part that the city school district, "...having offices at Academy Park...." which demonstrates to me that the building was already known by that name at the time the deed was drawn. It was known by whomever drew up the deed, not just by the school district. The image is poor so I don't think it makes a lot of sense as an image in the article, but, I post it here as a source. DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:33, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

File:DeedAcademyPark property.tif

FYI there is inherent copyright on that file. It would likely be owned by the county and probably shouldn't be uploaded here. "Public document" ≠ "public domain". upstateNYer 23:46, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

deeds are public documents in New York State. DMorpheus2 (talk) 23:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but what Matt is pointing out is that they're not in the public domain for purposes of copyright law, and images uploaded to Commons have to be either in the public domain or under some other equally free license like CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, which this is not (Don't feel bad about this; you probably figured that since federal records are in the public domain, all government records are. It would be nice if they were, but unless a governmental body says its records are in the public domain, they aren't). Daniel Case (talk) 23:42, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

This is unnecessarily confusing to the general public and took me a long time to understand. It was actually a pretty big win when the NYS Senate set its website and all related contents to CC-BY-NC-ND (which, alas, still doesn't meet Wikimedia's "free use" requirements); I'm unsure why the Assembly didn't follow suit (or how one House can have one setup and the other another). I might push for a policy at school for our documents to be public domain. Of course my board members will probably make the "public document" argument and tell me I'm crazy and don't know what I'm talking about :P upstateNYer 00:42, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I contacted the Albany School Board President for some insight and after surveying her colleagues, she stated "even those long-time Albanians know the building as Academy Park." She suggested I contact Jack McEneny (retired Assemblyman and local historian) or to look at his book. I have his book, so I took a look. He has a photo of the memorial statue and the caption is, "The Joseph Henry Statue stands in Academy Park in front of the old Albany Academy Building, where he taught science ..." I don't think this really helps in either direction, but it's out there. upstateNYer 14:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Let me get this straight: the Albany school board says its known as Academy Park and you don't think that helps? What on earth would help? DMorpheus2 (talk) 23:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

If the Albany school board told you to go jump off the top of Corning Tower, would you do it? ... Oh wait, you'd have to, you work for them. Just kidding.

Seriously, all we've established here is that while the school district calls the building Academy Park, it does not promote that usage to the extent that it has caught on with the Albany community enough to be considered the common name to a degree that Wikipedia naming policy would accept as the title for the article, and that more people outside the district call it "the old Albany Academy building." Daniel Case (talk) 23:54, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, with nor disrespect meant for the Albany School Board President, she's probably not a historian. The general public don't keep tabs on official names and typically don't know when they're misusing a name (not saying they are; I'm just pointing out that they'll call something whatever they call it and then argue someone else is wrong because of it). That's why I give McEneny more weight. I do consider myself a historian at this point and know a lot about the old buildings in Albany being reused. This example really isn't much different from Union Station being Norstar's HQ in the late '80s. Norstar had an official title for it, but it will still always be known as the Old Union Station. Same goes for a lot of the other NRHP listings in the city (the Old Armory, the Old Post Office, the United Traction Building and the old YMCA; then you have the ones that kept the names because they realized changing them would lose their recognize-ability, like the Pump Station and the Washington Avenue Armory). Also, not that it adds much, but I was at the building yesterday to take some photos (not thrilled with what I got, unfortunately), and there was a sign on a side door that referred to the building as "Administration Building at 1 Academy Park". I think all these examples just kind of prove that the historical name is probably the more appropriate one. upstateNYer 00:53, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Other sources

www.examiner.com/article/latest-proposed-school-cuts lists "Academy Park" as the location of the Albany city school district. DMorpheus2 (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Note that all the other school districts have their offices' mailing address given. That does not prove "Academy Park" is in common use for the building. Daniel Case (talk) 15:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

http://www.jcope.ny.gov/enforcement/exhibits/Exhibit%20126.pdf NY Governor's schedule. See 4/30/2007: 11am meeting at "Academy Park (HQ of Albany City schools) DMorpheus2 (talk) 13:25, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Which page is this? It's a long document, and I don't have time to search it at the moment. Daniel Case (talk) 15:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

http://capitalizealbany.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IDA-May-6-2011.pdf Letter from City of Albany Industrial Development Agency, 4/26/11, addressed to the school superintendent at "Academy Park". DMorpheus2 (talk) 13:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't able to get to it but, from how you describe it here, it sounds as if it's another example of the use of the mailing address. Daniel Case (talk) 15:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Newslink - http://newslink.cspire.com/tags/uncategorized/city-school-district-of-albany.118713?nocheck=true "The district's offices are located in Academy Park." DMorpheus2 (talk) 13:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I clicked on the original Reuters story and found nothing about the district's location in it. Daniel Case (talk) 15:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I am trying hard to continue assuming good faith but it is getting increasingly difficult. The JSCOPE document lacks page numbers, but if you scroll through to the date given, it is there. The other documents prove that *organizations other than the district* use the name. The Newslink page shows, on the very first page, the 'Academy Park' usage. regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

That some other organizations seem to accept that as the name for the building doesn't trump the other evidence here that (to me) supports "old Albany Academy building" as the most common name in general use. In a few weeks I have to go up to Albany. Maybe I'll stand in front of the county courthouse and ask anyone passing by what they call that building in the park. Daniel Case (talk) 18:24, 3 July 2013 (UTC)