Talk:Nubians

Nubian Dark Skin

It sais that all ancient nubians are depicted with very dark skin but some of them particularly the leaders are depicted with skin the same as the Egyptians. It is actually racist to put they are depicted with very dark skin in the article as it does not say ancient greeks are depicted with very light skin. I'm changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.177.104 (talk) 22:38, 28 March 2010 (UTC) you say some of the leaders were depicted with skin the same as the Egyptians. what skin tone were the Ancient Egyptians? they all started off with dark skin until the envaisions of lighter skin people.

Your statements are illogical afrocentric ramblings look at how nubians depicted themselves at qasir ibrim 2A04:7F80:4:D127:88F6:231D:3694:119E (talk) 14:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Misleading information

I don't wanna be racially obsessed, but in the Genetics section, the writer doesn't clarify that the 66 individuals tested were from an unknown society that had high levels of west eurasian ancestry compared to the contemporary nubian, it also make it seems as af nubians had an increase of Sub-Saharan dna since ancient times. "Regarding modern Nubians, despite their superficial resemblance to the Kulubnarti Nubians on the PCA, they were not found to be descended from Kulubnarti Nubians without additional later admixtures." the only time the Genetics section mentiones ancient nubians and their relation to modern nubians is in this? Aside from the fact that it ignores many other studies on the nubian populations and chooses specific studies to deliver biased information. I have noticed at least one false information on almost evey single time the nubians were mentioned, this is usually the first place people come to to learn about uknown ethnic groups with limited info on the internet, you should do better. Uhntimsl (talk) 12:40, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

"66 individuals tested were from an unknown society that had high levels of west eurasian ancestry compared to the contemporary nubian"

Not really true its from the christian period in lower nubia today's nubians like mahas danagala etc still have about 40% west eurasian ancestry 2A04:7F80:4:D127:88F6:231D:3694:119E (talk) 14:55, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Section referring to the " Axumite Subjugation of Nubia"

I deleted the section concerning the Axumite invasion of Nubia " as it is a misrepresentation of historical facts and therefore entirely incorrect. The Christianisation of Nubia was never an Axumite initiative as Christianisation of Nubia (at least the initial phase) was entirely an Egyptian initiative Kryako (talk) 08:48, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Your deletion has no merit, as you haven't proven your claim that the section is incorrect other than making an unsourced assertion. Either prove your claim with sources, or your deletion will remain invalid. Aearthrise (talk) 13:52, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Agyepong, Stephen. “Salim Faraji. The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh. Trenton, N.J.: Africa World Press, 2012; ISBN 978-1-59221-872-1. 332 Pages Kryako (talk) 14:05, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Crowfoot, J. W. “Christian Nubia.” The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 13, no. 3/4, 1927, pp. 141–50. Kryako (talk) 14:06, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Send the source here, with a full citation. Just posting books is not sufficient. Aearthrise (talk) 14:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

This is a full ciation with the page numbers. These are nopt books and you will find no other primary source on Nubian history that supports the "Axumite subjugation " thesis Kryako (talk) 14:09, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I tried accessing the other two of the original sources (mhonegger and christianityaswannubia), but Google books is restricting their page access now. I've added a new source with information on the Christianization of Nubia, Garth Fowden.

Mohammad Ali (1996). Ethnicity, Politics, and Society in Northeast Africa Conflict and Social Change. University Press of America. p. 119.

"The Axumites invaded the famous kingdom of Kush and destroyed the capital known as Meroe in the middle of the fourth century AD. As a result, the ancient kingdoms of Nubia and Kush lost their home, state, and independent existence. The Axumite empire enriched and established itself at the cost of destruction and subjugation of the native peoples of Northeast Africa."

This source shows indeed that Nubia and Kush were subjugated by Axum.

Garth Fowden (2020). Empire to Commonwealth Consequences of Monotheism in Late Antiquity. American University in Cairo Press. p. 116.

"Aksum's newly acquired but self-confident Christian identity was projected not only eastward into Himyar but also northward into Nubia, a land that, though probably to some extent familiar with Christianity was not yet Christian. We know that missionaries were sent into Nubia from Aksum; but they were in competition with others, Chalcedonian as well as Monophysite, sent at the iniative of Justinian and Theodora respectively. These latter missions resulted in the conversion of Nubia to the Egyptian brand of Monophysitism, as distinct from the Syrian-influenced doctrines that prevailed in Ethiopia."

This source details the Christianization of Nubia, first attempted by Axumite missionaries, and completed by Egyptian missionaries.

To conclude, the removal of the whole section is totally unwarranted and just disruptive editing. The section just needs a small tweak to flesh out the section about how Christianity came to Nubia. I've completed this change in the latest update to the section. Aearthrise (talk) 14:42, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

These are not primary source on Nubian history so they are not credible sources

What archaeological evidence do these sources have of an Axumite invasion ? Is there any proof other than a stele?

Furthermore, George Hatke in his book Aksum and Nubia illustrates the limits of Axumite influences in Nubia.

Also of note, is that the wiki page Nubia , has an entire section on the Christianisation of Nubia that contradicts these assumptions of Axumite missionary work in Nubia. History tells us of John of Biclarum and John of Ephesus and of Longinus , but no other work on the history of Nubia even alludes to An Axumite Kryako (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The section has already been updated with information more information and fleshed out to be more accurate, with sources already posted above. Indeed I don't understand what you're arguing now. Your original claim was that Christianity came from Egypt, and not Axum.

The onus is on you to provide evidence for your whatever you're claiming now. So far you have only posted more than a half-dozen book titles and numbers, and made a claim of having Nubian ethnicity, but you haven't made the effort to provide a single quoted citation to support your claim. Aearthrise (talk) 15:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

"Nubian sovereign religion in the fifth century was an amalgamation of classical Sudanese traditions, Meroitic religion, Christian traditions indigenous to Coptic Egypt and Roman military piety" Salim Faraji "The Kushite World: The roots of the Nubian Church

I am surprised that you , as an editor, have not read all this material yet you are allowed to write whatever you want. I wouldn't have to point to all these sources to a person well versed in the science of Nubiology. Kryako (talk) 15:15, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

This citation doesn't contradict anything in the section, nor any of the sources above; it just describes the features of Nubian religion in the fifth century. Aearthrise (talk) 15:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

It refutes the Axumite claims for certain. Kryako (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. It only describes the features of Nubian religion in the fifth century. Aearthrise (talk) 15:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The Christianization of Nubia started in the 5th century. Kryako (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The Christianization of ancient Nubia can be divided into three stages. The first stage corresponds to the evangelizing activity of Coptic monks and merchants in Lower Nubia beginning in the late fourth and early fifth century. This stage also includes the introduction of Christianity into Lower Nubia through Roman military culture. The second stage is marked by the triumphant declaration of king Silko and his expulsion of the Blemmyes from the region of Kalabsha and Qasr Ibrim. The third stage, like Kirwan’s second stage, is marked by the arrival of Justinian’s and Theodora’s Melkite and Monophysite missions in the sixth century

"The Kushite World: The roots of the Nubian Christianity page 337 Kryako (talk) 15:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

G. Hatke. 2013. Aksum and Nubia: Warfare, Commerce, and Political Fictions in Ancient Northeast Africa

"Since no royal inscriptions have been

identified for the period of almost two hundred years between ‘Ēzānā and Kālēb, it is

impossible to tell whether ‘Ēzānā or his successors continued to lay claim to

Kush, much less effectively ruled Nubia. Furthermore, what precious little Aksumite

material has come to light in Nubia only emphasizes the region’s isolation from Aksum’s political and economic orbit"

page 67

Subjugation entails that the subjugated be under the economic and political influence of the subjugator. How is it that Kush was subjgated by Axum while the archaeological evidence indicates clearly the isolation of Nubia form Axum at that time.

"As for the destruction of much of the Jabal Barkal

complex, Edwards concurs with the original theory proposed by Reisner and Griffith,

regarding the Roman invasion a much likelier explanation than ‘Ēzānā’s campaign.591

In light of the Ge‘ez graffito from Kawa, Edwards’ reservations about an Aksumite

presence in that region must be qualified, but as stated above the context in which this

graffito was left is uncertain. In the case of the temple at Tabo, Edwards argues that the

burning there occurred after a period of abandonment, and that there was nothing to

show a violent end to the use of the temple.592 (Edwards 1989: 172.) Attributing the conflagration to an Aksumite invasion is therefore dubious"

Gebel El Barkal and Tabo temples are counted amongst the epicentres of Kushite political control and influence , the absence of any Axumite occupation in that area clearly indicates the absence of Axumite presence let alone subjugation in the Kushite heartlands.

"Of these peoples Eusebius says only that they

brought gifts to the Roman emperor, and that some were “honored with Roman posts of

dignity.” Significantly, since he makes a distinction between the Beja, Kushites, and

Aksumites it would seem that in 336 Kush was independent of Aksum and that

whatever authority Ousanas might have hoped to establish over Kush had come to an

end. ‘Ēzānā’s claim to Kush, as expressed in his royal title in those inscriptions of his predating his Nubian campaign of 360, would thus be a political fiction" page 68

"Aksumite claims to Kush more often than not reflected an ideal rather than a reality, so it is not

impossible that the political rhetoric of Aksumite rule of Kush conceals what was in

fact some system of diplomatic gift-exchange".page 69

"If the lack of

evidence for any Aksumite invasion of Nubia after ‘Ēzānā’s reign is any indication, it

would seem that once ‘Ēzānā had dealt with the Noba threat there was no need for further intervention in Nubia and the region was left to its own devices. If lack of

documentation from fifth-century Aksum is any indication,627

the Ethiopian kingdom

was either too weak to enforce its authority in Nubia or felt that the possible benefits of

doing so would not have repaid the effort. All the same, the experience of fourth�century Aksumite rule in Nubia, however ephemeral, left an indelible mark on

Aksumite royal propaganda, such that the fiction of Kushite vassalage was maintained

some two centuries later in the reigns of Kālēb and his son and successor Wa‘zeb, long

after the kingdom of Kush itself had ceased to exist". page 72

The above excerpts prove the points i was trying to make from the beginning.

A. Axumite subjugation of Nubia is a myth and completely untrue.

B. Christianity was a purely Egyptian initiative , especially since the Miaphysite doctrine and not the Melkite Syrian doctrine of Christology is the hallmark of Egyptian Christianity; the Coptic church held sway in both Nubia and Axum (a mistake made by Gary Fowden, Christianity in Nubia and Axum followed the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria)

C. The Axumites where not the founders of the three Nubian Medieval Christian kingdoms of the middle ages. Kryako (talk) 12:23, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Garth Fowden (2020). Empire to Commonwealth Consequences of Monotheism in Late Antiquity. American University in Cairo Press. p. 116.

"Aksum's newly acquired but self-confident Christian identity was projected not only eastward into Himyar but also northward into Nubia, a land that, though probably to some extent familiar with Christianity was not yet Christian. We know that missionaries were sent into Nubia from Aksum; but they were in competition with others, Chalcedonian as well as Monophysite, sent at the iniative of Justinian and Theodora respectively. These latter missions resulted in the conversion of Nubia to the Egyptian brand of Monophysitism, as distinct from the Syrian-influenced doctrines that prevailed in Ethiopia."

Which proves the point that Christianity in Nubia was never an Axumite initiative.

You wrote: "I tried accessing the other two of the original sources (mhonegger and christianityaswannubia), but Google books is restricting their page access now. I've added a new source with information on the Christianization of Nubia, Garth Fowden."

So you admit that you have no access to these materials and yet you feel confident in adding these blatant fantasies of our history, and further yet you add another source ! All these sources are not archaeological works on Nubia and are not considered authoritative.

Your sources are tertiary sources and your grasp on the entire mater is dubious. Yet still even after you demonstrated your meagre understanding of Nubian history , you are allowed to write such drivel and encouraged by the editors.

What right do you have to write our history for us ? When will this Eurocentric entitlement to our history cease ? Kryako (talk) 16:00, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

As an Ethnic Nubian, We know our history and will continue to correct the erroneous recitation of our history by foreigners. Kryako (talk) 14:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Claiming to be an ethnic Nubian is not an argument; you're committing an ad auctoritatem fallacy, appeal to authority. Aearthrise (talk) 14:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Kryako, you have posted two sources. Give editors some time to read these now and then we can discuss. The information should not be removed again until we reach a consensus. Thanks.

Also, what page number(s) are you referring to in the first reference please?Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:16, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Here is another source:

Kirwan, Laurence. “THE EMERGENCE OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF NUBIA.” Sudan Notes and Records, vol. 61, 1980, pp. 134–39.

There is an article in the Oxford Handbook of Ancient Nubia titled "The History of Medieval Nubia" by Ruffini

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji

I shall not delete. I will leave that to you Kryako (talk) 14:27, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji

pages 331-335 Kryako (talk) 14:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Gadallah, F. F. “THE EGYPTIAN CONTRIBUTION TO NUBIAN CHRISTIANITY.” Sudan Notes and Records, vol. 40, 1959, pp. 38–43.

Shinnie, P. L. “NUBIAN CHURCHES.” Archaeology, vol. 9, no. 1, 1956, pp. 54–59.

Haycock, B. G. “MEDIÆVAL NUBIA IN THE PERSPECTIVE OF SUDANESE HISTORY.” Sudan Notes and Records, vol. 53, 1972, pp. 18–35.

Kirwan, L. P. “THE BIRTH OF CHRISTIAN NUBIA: SOME ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROBLEMS.” Rivista Degli Studi Orientali, vol. 58, no. 1/4, 1984, pp. 119–34. Kryako (talk) 14:42, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I am Not committing anything other than the protection of our history from blatant historical revisionism Kryako (talk) 14:34, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the page numbers. I'll look those up. In the meantime, Crowfoot (1927) says

This decline took place before the conversion to Christianity, and one is tempted to connect it with some change in the ruling class at Meroe, such as might result from an Axumite invasion or the quarrels of "Red" and "Black" Nuba, which are apparently referred to on the Axum inscriptions published by Littmann in the volumes of the Deutsche Aksum-Expedition, but this is purely hypothetical.

Is this what you refer to in that one? Yet what might have been hypothetical in 1927 would surely be better understood one way or another a century later. I don't think this tells us anything. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I think pages 331-335 of Faraji (2012) have to be wrong. The book only has 332 pages. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:43, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Dr, Faraji's article is part of a book titled "The Kushite World". I have the paper , how do i send it to you ? Kryako (talk) 14:48, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Crawfoot was pointing out that the political turmoil of the late 4th century aided the spread of Christianity into Nubia. Kryako (talk) 14:45, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Look you have now added another 7 sources, but you are not directing the argument. I am going to out and out dismiss Gadallah (1959), Shinnie (1956) Haycock (1972) because it is clear newer scholarship is required here. Even Kirwan (1984) is 40 years old. You started off with two references, a manageable number. One of those, (Faraji, 2012) has no page numbers. It can't be page 331 because that is right at the end of the book. Don't try to bury the discussion in a bunch of additional sources. Start with a good one and we work from there. No one is going to go hunting through 9 different sources, mostly without page numbers, hoping to see what you see in them. Don't send me any sources, but feel free to quote a paragraph or two that explains the point you are making. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:55, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

"The Pachomian abbot Shenoute describes Nubians actually living and dwelling among Coptic monks as “friends” on the verge of conversion: “How blessed is the whole flock and all the flocks of Christ in that they follow after Him, for they know him to be the God of truth; would that these friends sitting here, that belong unto the Blemmyes and the Nouba too, would mingle with us and follow after Him! That is would know him to be God. For we have suffered them to mix with us and to come into God’s house, that perchance they might come to reason. Can they, then, not know what the Psalmist writes, ‘The idols of the heathen are silver and gold’” (Emmel 2004)." page 333

"This article seeks to address the questions of when Christianization and the subsequent conversion of ancient Nubia officially began and how we characterize the earliest forms of Christianity in ancient Nubia. This article will argue that king Silko and the Ballana monarchy marked the beginning of Christianization in Nubia commencing in the fifth century CE. Therefore the Byzantine missions of the sixth century represented only the culmination of a process that began with Nubian initiative nearly one hundred years before the arrival of the first Melkite and Monophysite missionaries." page 331

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji Kryako (talk) 15:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I don't see how any of that changes what we have on the page. I'll leave it there. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:09, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

There is no archaeological proof of an Axumite subjugation and there is absolutely no proof that Christianity in Nubia was initiated by Axumites.

"Nubian sovereign religion in the fifth century was an amalgamation of classical Sudanese traditions, Meroitic religion, Christian traditions indigenous to Coptic Egypt and Roman military piety" page 336

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji Kryako (talk) 15:18, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The Christianization of ancient Nubia can be divided into three stages. The first stage corresponds to the evangelizing activity of Coptic monks and merchants in Lower Nubia beginning in the late fourth and early fifth century. This stage also includes the introduction of Christianity into Lower Nubia through Roman military culture. The second stage is marked by the triumphant declaration of king Silko and his expulsion of the Blemmyes from the region of Kalabsha and Qasr Ibrim. The third stage, like Kirwan’s second stage, is marked by the arrival of Justinian’s and Theodora’s Melkite and Monophysite missions in the sixth century

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji page 337 Kryako (talk) 15:25, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I require arbitration , the moderator Sirfurboy is biased and has a clear agenda. Evidence was produced but they decided not to view the evidence not withstanding that fact that the moderator did not ask for the same evidence from the person who wrote such falsehoods Kryako (talk) 16:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Be aware that I am not a moderator. Wikipedia does not have moderators. I merely am an editor interested in the page, and I also had to go out into the real world for a while. Other editors might decide to participate here too, and perhaps they will be able to see the point you are making. Incidentally, I still don't see a page number for Faraji (2012). Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:26, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The Kushite World - The Roots of Nubian Christianity by Salim Faraji page 337

This is a serious matter , Amateurs cannot be allowed to write our history with such little disregard to scientific and academic work that is the foundation of modern day Nubiology. Dismissing academic papers just because they are old is disgraceful and disrespectful. These are specialized sources dedicated to the study of Nubia , which is more than what the opponent produced as evidence , best thing he has is a tertiary source !

You have the right to go out in the real world , but Nubia is our world and to think the page that speaks of our peoples history is edited by people with so little education on the matter is quiet serious.

You are a mod as in you are the one that decides what stays and what does not stay on the page. You made a decision for the utter garbage written by that amateur to stay up! If you you had even the basic knowledge of Nubian history you would not have allowed this nonsense.

I cannot blame the plagiarizer for their folly , you must be blamed for allowing it to stand.

Shameful Kryako (talk) 07:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

G. Hatke. 2013. Aksum and Nubia: Warfare, Commerce, and Political Fictions in Ancient Northeast Africa

"Since no royal inscriptions have been

identified for the period of almost two hundred years between ‘Ēzānā and Kālēb, it is

impossible to tell whether ‘Ēzānā or his successors continued to lay claim to

Kush, much less effectively ruled Nubia. Furthermore, what precious little Aksumite

material has come to light in Nubia only emphasizes the region’s isolation from

Aksum’s political and economic orbit"

page 67

Subjugation entails that the subjugated be under the economic and political influence of the subjugator. How is it that Kush was subjgated by Axum while the archaeological evidence indicates clearly the isolation of Nubia form Axum at that time.

"As for the destruction of much of the Jabal Barkal

complex, Edwards concurs with the original theory proposed by Reisner and Griffith,

regarding the Roman invasion a much likelier explanation than ‘Ēzānā’s campaign.591

In light of the Ge‘ez graffito from Kawa, Edwards’ reservations about an Aksumite

presence in that region must be qualified, but as stated above the context in which this

graffito was left is uncertain. In the case of the temple at Tabo, Edwards argues that the

burning there occurred after a period of abandonment, and that there was nothing to

show a violent end to the use of the temple.592 (Edwards 1989: 172.) Attributing the conflagration to an

Aksumite invasion is therefore dubious"

Gebel El Barkal and Tabo temples are counted amongst the epicentres of Kushite political control and influence , the absence of any Axumite occupation in that area clearly indicates the absence of Axumite presence let alone subjugation in the Kushite heartlands.

"Of these peoples Eusebius says only that they

brought gifts to the Roman emperor, and that some were “honored with Roman posts of

dignity.” Significantly, since he makes a distinction between the Beja, Kushites, and

Aksumites it would seem that in 336 Kush was independent of Aksum and that

whatever authority Ousanas might have hoped to establish over Kush had come to an

end. ‘Ēzānā’s claim to Kush, as expressed in his royal title in those inscriptions of his

predating his Nubian campaign of 360, would thus be a political fiction" page 68

"Aksumite claims to Kush more often than not reflected an ideal rather than a reality, so it is not

impossible that the political rhetoric of Aksumite rule of Kush conceals what was in

fact some system of diplomatic gift-exchange".page 69

"If the lack of

evidence for any Aksumite invasion of Nubia after ‘Ēzānā’s reign is any indication, it

would seem that once ‘Ēzānā had dealt with the Noba threat there was no need for

further intervention in Nubia and the region was left to its own devices. If lack of

documentation from fifth-century Aksum is any indication,627

the Ethiopian kingdom

was either too weak to enforce its authority in Nubia or felt that the possible benefits of

doing so would not have repaid the effort. All the same, the experience of fourth�century Aksumite rule in Nubia, however ephemeral, left an indelible mark on

Aksumite royal propaganda, such that the fiction of Kushite vassalage was maintained

some two centuries later in the reigns of Kālēb and his son and successor Wa‘zeb, long

after the kingdom of Kush itself had ceased to exist". page 72

The above excerpts prove the points i was trying to make from the beginning.

A. Axumite subjugation of Nubia is a myth and completely untrue.

B. Christianity was a purely Egyptian initiative , especially since the Miaphysite doctrine and not the Melkite Syrian doctrine of Christology is the hallmark of Egyptian Christianity; the Coptic church held sway in both Nubia and Axum (a mistake made by Gary Fowden, Christianity in Nubia and Axum followed the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria)

C. The Axumites where not the founders of the three Nubian Medieval Christian kingdoms of the middle ages

Kryako (talk) 12:24, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

XXVII At what date the Meroitic peoples became Christian we do

not know. Abyssinia was converted about 330 a.d. and northern

Nubia about two centuries later ; but the severance of friendly rela- tions between the two countries which occurred in the middle of the

fourth century militated henceforth against the spread ofthe religious

beliefs of the one to the other, and so much so that when Christianity

of 'Aloa, be it noted, is also applied, both in the Axumite inscription and later by Abu Salih, to the town (Soba) as well as to the district. The name seems to survive in the dual form of " 'Alwan," the name of a district inland from Soba.

was finally established in Nubia in the sixth century it was by way

of Egypt that it came.

History of the Arabs in The Sudan

Harold McMichael page 47-48 Kryako (talk) 10:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Kryako, please don't use carriage returns in the middle of sentences as it makes what you write quite hard to follow. Also, I am going to venture at this point that no one has much idea what point your are making nor much inclination to discuss it. What is your thesis? What doe sthe page say that it should not say? And how is that covered in sources? The first source you listed was:

Agyepong, Stephen. “Salim Faraji. The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh. Trenton, N.J.: Africa World Press, 2012; ISBN 978-1-59221-872-1. 332

Once again, what is the page number you are referring to? And how does the information on that page suggest this page needs changing? Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

The point is simple and I have made it clear more than once with ample quoted sources, your inability to comprehend the point is not my problem.

Again the points are :

A. Axumite subjugation of Nubia is a myth and completely untrue.

B. Christianity was a purely Egyptian initiative , especially since the Miaphysite doctrine and not the Melkite Syrian doctrine of Christology is the hallmark of Egyptian Christianity; the Coptic church held sway in both Nubia and Axum (a mistake made by Gary Fowden, Christianity in Nubia and Axum followed the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria)

C. The Axumites where not the founders of the three Nubian Medieval Christian kingdoms of the middle ages

I understand that you don't have an inclination to discuss Nubian history because you are not properly addressed or versed in Nubiology, but don't allow your personal prejudice against us dictate historical facts. My intentions is to provide more data in this wiki page and not to plagiarize or arbitrarily add misinformation like Aearthrise.

Agyepong, Stephen. “Salim Faraji. The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh. Trenton, N.J.: Africa World Press, 2012; ISBN 978-1-59221-872-1. 332. I corrected this source many times; I stated clearly that the paper in question is in fact "Salim Faraji. The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh". I donated to send you the paper and repeated the page number but prejudice disadvantaged you again.

In spite of all this if you do not get it, that's perfectly fine, at least in our day and age , hate and ignorance still lives in the talk pages of wikipedia Kryako (talk) 12:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Contested pictures

File:Slave Market, Mono version.jpg (from Archaeological Museum, Bologna) and File:View of Nubians, 1683 (cropped).jpg (by Alain Manesson Mallet) are the cause for edit warning. I think we better discuss it to avoid further warring .

@41.68.190.220 and @Asdfg 3j can you please explain why you removed these pictures. Please remind yourself that Wikipedia is not censored and let's please avoid personal attacks. Comment on content, not on the contributor.

@Tobby72 you might be interested in this discussion (sorry for tagging you twice) FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, the description was inaccurate since it was just relief of war captives and not slaves in a slave market, secondly, I think there are more images that fit in better in the subject discussed (History).

So, since the editing is semi-protected now, may you change it with an image of "Nubian A-group, Meroitic era or the Medieval/Christian era", rather than just captives in a random war, Thank you. Asdfg 3j (talk) 01:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source for the first paragraph of your reply? FuzzyMagma (talk) 07:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, first, the Egyptian Museam: "Tomb Relief of Nubian Prisoners - Egypt Museum (egypt-museum.com)"

second, the Archaeological museum of Bologna: "Egyptian Collection: the tomb of Horemheb at Saqqara | Museums: Itineraries: Egyptian Collection: the tomb of Horemheb at Saqqara | Archaeological Museum of Bologna | Iperbole (comune.bologna.it)". Asdfg 3j (talk) 09:23, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the details. I also found the picture to be irrelevant to the text in that section. Hence I removed File:Slave Market, Mono version.jpg. FuzzyMagma (talk) 10:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Asdfg 3j (talk) 10:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

According to the text here, they were Nubian prisoners of war. The Egyptian inscription says that a scribe writes an account of the event and selects two prisoners as servants for Tutankhamon's court. -- Tobby72 (talk) 09:39, 12 December 2024 (UTC)