Talk:Nuba Mountains

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Africa: Sudan

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Untitled

Is the 4-8 Meters per year of rainfall accurate? That's as much as Hawaii!!?? It just doesn't sound right. I've spent time in the Nuba mountains and can say fairly certainly that's not accurate.

156.111.245.96 18:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The more accurate estimation is 400 - 800 millimeters as referenced here: http://www.nubasurvival.com/Nuba%20Vision/Vol%201%20Issue%204/3%20UN%20and%20Agencies%20Concerns%20over%20Humanitarian%20Delays.htm

156.111.245.96 18:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted changes

What was the decision making criteria for the following changes being reverted?

The Nuba Mountains are possibly the original homeland of Niger-Congo speakers. ^[1]^[2]^[3] In Antiquity, the area was closely affiliated with the kingdoms of Kerma and Kush.^[4] 2601:42:0:4000:E8D7:9E7D:674:3C20 (talk) 17:05, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cookiemonster1618 this is for you. FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also @FuzzyMagma this message isn't really for me the same user has added the same message at the talk pages of Nuba peoples, Linguistic homeland and Proto-Niger–Congo language. None of their sources confirm what mainstream linguistic research has said about the Niger-Congo language family's urheimat and do not discuss their points either. One is about the Mande branch of Niger-Congo and the other is about a genomic study of different ethnic groups in Africa. Genetic studies of ethnic groups are not studies that confirm linguistic origins of entire language phyla, linguistic and archaeological evidence does. As can be shown by my previous 3 replies there is no evidence to support the claim the user is making. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 02:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

-The following sentence should stay in the article:

“In Antiquity, the area was closely affiliated with the kingdoms of Kerma and Kush.”

-The sentence: “The Nuba Mountains are possibly the original homeland of Niger-Congo speakers” can be removed.

-It is possible for Sudan to be the original homeland of Niger-Congo speakers but that does not have to be included in this article.

-I will share the following though:

Blench stated in the first source (page 13):

“Previous writers, noting the concentration of families in West Africa, have tended to assume a location somewhere near the headwaters of the Niger and explained Kordofanian by the migration of a single group. If the present classification is accepted, it becomes far more likely that the homeland was in the centre of present-day Sudan and that Kordofanian represents the Niger-Congo speakers who stayed at home.”

Welmers stated in the third source (page 119):

“An original Niger-Congo homeland in the general vicinity of the upper Nile valley is probably as good a hypothesis as any.” 2601:42:0:4000:F984:FCA3:4D4A:1762 (talk) 03:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not really evidence considering that mainstream scholarship agrees with Niger-Congo originated in West Africa. Also genomic studies don't confirm linguistic origins of language families. All mainstream scholars agree that Niger-Congo originated from Central-West Africa (border between Nigeria and Cameroon specifically) (not Bantu languages). Also that statement was already added at the history of Sudan article. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 03:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You stated that “mainstream scholarship agrees with Niger-Congo originated in West Africa” yet the next sentence after the quote you retrieved from the Britannica link you posted states:

“Beyond Williamson’s rather convincing hypothesis and broadening the discussion to all the other branches of Niger-Congo, there is no consensus among scholars as to the origins and historical development of Niger-Congo languages.” 2601:42:0:4000:F984:FCA3:4D4A:1762 (talk) 04:20, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In that case the concensus is still West Africa as evidence points towards there as the likely origin of the Niger-Congo family, all cited source say that. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 04:29, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The statement you added that the Nuba Mountains was part of the Kingdoms of Kerma and Kush were not found in the source you cited, in fact it talks about Nubia and the history of the Nubian kingdoms in Northern Sudan. No where does it mention the Nuba mountains. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 04:39, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

-I stated the area was closely affiliated with the kingdoms of Kerma and Kush. That is not exactly the same as being apart of the kingdoms.

-The source did not mention Nuba Mountains specifically but mentioned how Kerma dominated the Nile south of Egypt and evidence of Kerma’s close ties to Southern Sudan, South Sudan, and parts of Central Africa. The Nuba Mountains is in Southern Sudan and apart of the Nile Valley south of Egypt.

-If the source is not specific enough, it can be removed and the current The Nuba Mountains Homepage external link on the Nuba Mountains article that addresses Nuba’s affiliation with Kush can be used instead.

-You mentioned that the statement was already added to the history of Sudan article. Is it possible if you can add the source used in that article as well? 2601:42:0:4000:F984:FCA3:4D4A:1762 (talk) 18:17, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess when they chose to go to the talk to avoid warring, then normally the discussion should be with the other side. If the discussion reached a dead end then one of you can request a third opinion. But please no warring, both seems excited about adding missing information to this project and I will hate for anyone of you to feel that their voice was silenced with out a proper discussion. FuzzyMagma (talk) 07:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I agree. Is it possible if you can share your opinion on if the following sentence should stay in the article?

“In Antiquity, the area was closely affiliated with the kingdoms of Kerma and Kush.”

The sentence can be rephrased if necessary.

The following sentence that is still in the article:

“In the Middle Ages, the Nuba mountains had been part of the Nubian kingdom of Alodia.” 2601:42:0:4000:F984:FCA3:4D4A:1762 (talk) 18:40, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no expertise in the matter but again if you reached a deadlock then request a 3O and someone with relevant experience will weigh in FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no archaeological or linguistic evidence that supports the theory that Niger-Congo languages originated from the Nuba Mountains of Sudan. New Research debunks this. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 01:41, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mainstream linguistic research and analysis have shown that Niger-Congo languages originated from Central-West Africa and many linguists have proposed the origin of the language family over there. None of the linguists such as Blench for example who is a linguist with African language phyla have said that Niger-Congo languages originated from Sudan. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 01:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[There is evidence pointing to an original homeland in the area of the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers. Over many centuries, the peoples of the Benue-Congo group spread out mostly south and east.]

'The most widespread and the richest in diversity is the Niger-Congo phylum, thought to have originated in West Africa 10,000 years ago.'^[5] Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 01:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Blench, Roger (2006). "The Niger-Saharan Macrophylum".
^ Mulindwa, Julius (2017). "Evidence of population specific selection inferred from 289 genome sequences of Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo linguistic groups in Africa".
^ "Linguistics in Sub-Saharan Africa", Linguistics in Sub-Saharan Africa, De Gruyter Mouton, 2017-08-21, doi:10.1515/9783111562520/html, ISBN 978-3-11-156252-0, retrieved 2024-10-24
^ "A NUBIAN KINGDOM RISES".
^ "Chromosomal Variations in Sub-Saharan Saharan Africa, Insights into the History of Niger-Congo groups". Retrieved October 30, 2024.

[1] Blench, Roger (2006). "The Niger-Saharan Macrophylum".

[2] Mulindwa, Julius (2017). "Evidence of population specific selection inferred from 289 genome sequences of Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo linguistic groups in Africa".

[3] "Linguistics in Sub-Saharan Africa", Linguistics in Sub-Saharan Africa, De Gruyter Mouton, 2017-08-21, doi:10.1515/9783111562520/html, ISBN 978-3-11-156252-0, retrieved 2024-10-24

[4] "A NUBIAN KINGDOM RISES".

[5] "Chromosomal Variations in Sub-Saharan Saharan Africa, Insights into the History of Niger-Congo groups". Retrieved October 30, 2024.

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