Talk:Northern Trains

Proposed Merge

I have noticed that This is Paul has created a similar page (Northern Trains). Same scope and subject, not sure which page is best as destination, please discuss. PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 19:06, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know we had this one when I created my version, but we definitely need to merge the two. Also this is the older article and has more information. I'd suggest titling it Northern Trains to avoid any confusion since we already have a Northern (train operating company) article (which this will become on 1 March) and the name Northern Trains is being used by media. This is Paul (talk) 19:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree it should be merged and the page should be called Northern Trains to avoid confusion. MainLine45 talk 19:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Article name

I have initiated a discussion at here that relates to the name of this article. Kloncoop (talk) 02:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I think and agree that the page should have the title "Northern Trains", I'd even recommend it be changed now rather than waiting until 1 March 2020. Superdry19 (talk) 00:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

So far the brand name has yet to be announced.[1] The current article name is more of a placeholder pending a trading name being announced, and while Northern Trains has been used in the press, this is more to do with its legal name of Northern Trains Limited rather than any confirmation that this will be the trading name. Similar to the way the current Northern article was originally named Arriva Rail North and Avanti West Coast was West Coast Rail until their brands were announced. Only proposing to keep the status quo to avoid a whole load of redirects being created. Kloncoop (talk) 06:46, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

144s

According to the article, Northern Trains had 46 144s, as there are 23 showing in current fleet and 23 showing in past fleet. As they in fact only had 23, should be one or the other. Anamyd (talk) 20:33, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I believe they should be in the current fleet until officialy withdrawn. Pepper Gaming (talk) 17:01, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

142s

The 142s have just received extended dispensation. Plans to run them around Greater Manchester. Should these be part of the “past fleet” section? Zackhally (talk) 19:29, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

[Proposal] Changing the logo

I am aware that the logo has recently been changed. However, the logo is not the real one, as you can see from this photo found on Northern's website

Therefore I feel that it should be changed; I'll change it now, if you feel that it shouldn't be changed, just revert my edit, thank you. MiquelonAtTheMochi (talk) 14:20, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I can't do it, but at least, why did Wikipedia Commons eat shit and delete the actual and real life logo...

MiquelonAtTheMochi (talk) 14:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

References

31 150/2s

I thought there were 28 in the fleet. Have 3 recently joined or something...? Anamyd (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Citations for Services (which Stock)

Hello.
As I am currently translating the article BR_Class_195 into German, I've looked a bit around, and seen, that theres no citations what-ever for any of the train stock which are used on the routes. It could be me and I am just blind, but can you please provide a reference where the train class is stated with the route?
Thank you!
--WoelfiVW (talk) 13:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved  — Amakuru (talk) 21:08, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

---

• Northern Trains → Northern (Operator of Last Resort)
• Arriva Rail North → Northern (Arriva)
• Northern Rail → Northern Rail (Serco-Abellio)

– The current naming scheme makes little sense and could cause confusion. "Northern Trains" could very easily be confused with "Northern Rail", and "Arriva Rail North" could easily be confused with "Arriva Trains Northern" while also not making it obvious that the branding used was in fact "Northern" for both. Not to mention the fact that the "Trains" and "Arriva Rail" bits are not helpful to the average user in finding the articles because they have rarely if ever appeared prominently on public-facing materials. I therefore propose that all three of the TOCs which have called themself "Northern" should be named in the format of "Brand name (Parent Company)" - the companies' official legal names can be provided at the start of the article (i.e. Northern Trains Limited, trading as Northern. This is similar to how the Wiki handles pseudonyms of public figures - the title is the name they are best known by, and their actual name is in the article itself. pythonmegapixel (talk|contribs) 09:36, 19 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Jack Frost (talk) 10:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. I see little problem here given the use of hatnotes. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:30, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose It is confusing, but I don't see how the proposed titles make it less so. Perhaps a new article like Timeline of Regional Railways successor companies might help make sense of it all. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 15:11, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support especially as "Arriva Rail North" and "Northern Trains" have never been publicly used as trading names. SK2242 (talk) 15:17, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose I saw this proposal when it was first posted and ummed and aahed about it for some time. I actually think @162.208.168.92: might have a point about an over-arching article, if we don't already have one, which could untangle the threads of the family tree of TOCs, branding names, and all the rest of it. Ultimately we should aim for making the articles clear. The titles are not great, but they are time appropriate. "Operator of Last Resort" is not that common a phrase outside the industry, for example, so the title might not lend itself well to a wider audience even if it is accurate. I can see the issues though. For now, lets look at the articles and perhaps re-examine the titles later. doktorb _words^deeds
• Oppose I agree with @162.208.168.92:’s page idea of a Timeline of Regional Railways successor companies I feel a page like that would be helpful and solve this issue, also operator of last resort is a common term in the rail industry but it is not a term used outside the rail industry that much. Therefore although operator of last resort is the correct term adding it to the title may make the articles title confusing to a general audience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurice Oly (talk • contribs) 02:41, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

  @Maurice Oly: That was my initial thought when considering what to title that article - but on second thoughts to me it felt like a bit of a double standard. After all, "Arriva Rail North" to a general audience is more likely to be associated with Arriva Trains Northern, given that ARN never actually called themselves that... similarly, "Northern Trains" has never actually been a thing in terms of branding; it's always just been

  That said, the idea of "Timeline of successors to Regional Railways" does appeal to me, and honestly that might work out better than a reshuffling of article names. pythonmegapixel (talk|contribs) 21:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose current structure is fine, hatnotes clear up any confusion. Humeofirm (talk) 10:16, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. The current set-up is not great, but the proposed alternatives are even less clear. The least bad might be something like Northern (train operating company 2016–2020) but that's hardly concise. Thryduulf (talk) 22:01, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
• Relisting comment: Relisted to allow further discussion of the above proposals and for a clearer consensus to emerge. --Jack Frost (talk) 10:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: I don't see how Northern Trains and Northern Rail could be confused, and certainly not Arriva Rail North. However, I would support placing a hatnote on each page. jamacfarlane (talk) 17:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

AfD FYI - List of Northern Trains routes

I have just posted the following AfD related to this article - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Northern Trains routes 10mmsocket (talk) 06:18, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

153s have gone

would anyone be able to move the 153s to withdraw stock, I cannot find any reference myself to justify it but they have all left the franchise. 82.132.238.236 (talk) 11:58, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

With no available references there's nothing to change. 10mmsocket (talk) 13:00, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Franchise ending

It's started that the franchise is ending on the 1st of March, that's 6 days from now. Has any news been reported on what will happen after that date? I haven't been able to find anything myself on Google. 77.98.117.41 (talk) 13:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

The service agreement states 1 March or any later date that the DfT notifies to DfT OLR Holdings & Northern Trains. If they have notified them of a later date, then like you I don't currently see anything. Worth keeping a news watch... --10mmsocket (talk) 15:27, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Cleanup tag

Those tables of services provided by this company needs serious cleanup. My first concern is the duplication; there's no need to list services more than once. Second, and I've already removed one route from the tables because of this, why include routes that run less than 1tpd? Those routes don't seem as significant as the other major routes serviced here, plus, the inclusion of such rare routes (especially when they're serviced) falls under WP:NOTTIMETABLE. Jalen Folf (talk) 07:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Class 180

Are Northern still using a class 180 leased from Grand Central for the peak time service to Hebden Bridge No they are not, it stopped service in 2015. -GamingTiger901 — Preceding unsigned comment added by GamingTiger901 (talk • contribs) 09:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)