Talk:Malaysia–Vietnam relations

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Malaysia–Vietnam relations has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 18, 2013	Good article nominee	Not listed
December 10, 2013	Peer review	Reviewed
April 20, 2014	Good article nominee	Listed
June 7, 2014	Good article reassessment	Delisted
November 21, 2015	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

Malaysia High‑importance

	Malaysia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
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Vietnam High‑importance

	Vietnam portal This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam articles
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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Malaysia–Vietnam relations/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: LT910001 (talk · contribs) 10:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If there are no objections, I'll take this review. I'll note at the outset I've had no role in editing or creating this article. I welcome other editors at any state to contribute to this review. I will spend a day familiarising myself with the article and then provide an assessment. Kind regards, LT910001 (talk) 10:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	The structure is confusing and impacts on readability. The prose is grammatically sound, but does not provide much historical context for the reader.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.	Yes; no OR.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Could do with mentioning any shared social demographics, religious or cultural interactions, and updating statistics to include those taken post-2010, to increase the relevance of the article.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Yes
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Yes
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Yes
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

Commentary

Firstly, thank you for your edits to this article on Wikipedia, Mr_Tan. This article certainly contains some useful information but is a little scattershot in its approach to portraying it. Some issues include:

There doesn't seem to be an explicit statement at the top of the article that states what the article is about. This is not necessary for GA promotion, but a statement such as "This article is about relations between the modern state of Malaysia and Vietnam" or something similar may help define this article's scope.
This article has an eclectic presentation of present and historical relationships between the two countries. I think that a good model for the structure that this article could have is the GA Croatia–Hungary relations, which divides the article into 'present' and 'historical'. In this article, I would split the article by sections:
- Present:
  - Diplomatic ties
    - Embassy
  - Trade
  - Social Developments
- Historical:
  - Cham vassals (15th-18th century)
  - Increasing trade (18th-20th centuries)
  - Relations with South Vietnam (1959–1975)
  - Vietnamese refugees (1975-2005)

I think this structure will help better structure the information contained within this article, and relates to the 'readability' criteria of the GA review. Some other very general comments include:

"Malaysia-Vietnam relationships date back to the Middle Ages" should be changed either to "to the Ming Dynasty" or a year, as Middle Ages isn't relevant in Asia.

Done--I think I just quote something more neutral, "15th century" would be best rather than "Ming Dynasty" which points to China, which has no direct relevance to the article. Furthermore, quoting another country's history--ie: VN's Nguyen Dynasty would POV against Malaysia, and vice versa in this context. Mr Tan (talk) 13:49, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The paragraphs in the history section could do with some fleshing out, in very brief form, explaining some of the major events or players that are mentioned in passing. For example: "Tonkinese soldiers had captured a Malaccan tributary mission en route to China and killing some while also simultaneously castrating and enslaving the remaining survivors" could be improved by something like "The modern-day Malaysian state consisted of at the time a number of small nation states, including the sultanate (?) of Malacca. Tonkinese soldiers dispatched by [country] which interepted and captured a tributary mission..."; and so on. A little context is needed in these paragraphs. This relates to the broadness criteria and applies throughout the subsections of the history section.

Please, go ahead and paraphrase or rephrase :) Mr Tan (talk) 13:49, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some other things which may increase the breadth of this article include: mentioning the social, ethnic, religious and linguistic constituents of both countries, mentions of any common heritage (eg common pre-Ming dynasties or hegemons including China or Khmer regimes); and updating statistics to include those taken post-2010, to increase the relevance of the article.

Not all bilateral relations have it; I think it is entirely optional and would not be relevant if no meaningful analysis can be provided after the table is set up. Mr Tan (talk) 13:49, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs work to be promoted to GA status, but GA nomination is certainly a possibility at the end of the tunnel. I am happy to leave this review open while changes are made. Kind regards, --LT910001 (talk) 12:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you LT, you have my blessings :) But I slightly disagree with the suggestion for specifying the two eras "15th-18th century" and "18th-20th centuries" with "Cham vassals" and "Increasing trade". If you read the content carefully, the two eras are definitely not restricted to relations with Champa and trade. In the 20th century, the VN Communists played a significant role in building the MCP. I felt that adding contrasting aspects of Malayan/Malaysian-Vietnamese collaborations and contacts adds spice and flavour to the article.

If you trace the article history, I had made an attempt to summarise the reference to "Tonkinese soldiers had captured a Malaccan tributary mission ...." to its current form. (You may wish to refer to the earlier version for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malaysia%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations&oldid=562411447) I definitely welcome any additional attempts to paraphrase further if possible, and the bulk of the quotation (very badly done for the prior revision) was quoted as part of the Bibliography. I am partly doing this to avert the possibility of any edit wars from previous editors, who may have strong feelings in the inclusion of particular paragraphs or points into the article body in the foreseeable future. Mr Tan (talk) 06:50, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Manual of style wise, perhaps Singapore–United_States_relations (short) or United Kingdom–United States relations (long) can be used as Guidelines for formatting, I think.

I think the idea of a "Present" section may not be very viable; it is a very subjective term in my opinion and your proposed new format of resegmenting would also include "present day" from 1959 in "North Vietnam" while classifying "Vietnamese refugees" as late as 1990s as "Historical". I would try to step in to contribute as much as possible, but personally I have limited time due to work commitments. Mr Tan (talk) 06:58, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Selamat pagi! I have advised Croatia–Hungary relations as a model, because it is already a Good Article, and might have a good structure (the two articles you have proposed are not yet at that level). I'm more than happy for you to ignore the solutions I have proposed, as it is the problems that need attention. Please take your time (within reason), if you are interested in improving this article within a week or two, I would be happy to wait. I wish you well, LT910001 (talk) 08:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't quite agree that we should use just one article as the sole example, as the historical details and content makeup cannot just be blindly translated as the correct "standard" on the other. I think it would be best to draw various sources for cumulative/collaborative inspiration, and modify the article accordingly to which it would feel most fluid for reading purposes. As I had gathered from Wikipedia's guidelines, I don't see any strict regulations requiring articles to adhere to a certain manner or pattern of prose. This, certainly suggest that a certain amount of discretion would be needed on the part of the editor to write in a manner that he/she thinks best. It just a bit like art, I feel one needs some degree of innovation to intepret what seems best based on the existing framework of guidelines. But by all means, LT--please go ahead to make any necessary amendments that you may feel best, there is absolutely no such thing as "ownership" of content. I just hope that you could play a part, too to provide additional inputs and modifications that you may feel good, although I strongly recommend that some research/prior reading might be necessary to provide meaningful inputs on the content level. I mean, inputs directly into the article body where you may fell appropriate, and not just solely restrict your role to this talk page here :) Mr Tan (talk) 13:34, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But with all said, definitely the Croatia-Hungary relations is a good sample that we can look at to draw inspiration for room for improvements, although I would not solely look at this article in order to provide a more holistic analysis on possible improvements that maybe made. In time to come, definitely this article would need rework from time to time as bilateral ties develop, but at the present moment I can't think of any improvements, although I will input accordingly when time permits and whatever I may feel otherwise in time to come. Again, I do strongly persuade you to make inputs into the article where you feel might bring a positive change, too ^^ Mr Tan (talk) 13:38, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All right. I am going to mark this review as complete with no promotion. As a reviewer I can't both edit and review (would be a slight conflict of interest!) This article does not meet GA criteria for the following reasons: it isn't broad enough, and the readability is hampered both by structure and confusing prose. I have updated the table above accordingly. I encourage you to renominate when you feel this article has reached a suitable quality, and strongly suggest that it undergoes peer review first (WP:Peer review). LT910001 (talk) 00:52, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Malaysia–Vietnam relations/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 00:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'll review.

"dates back at least to the 15th century" - grammar wise, I think "to" should go before "at least" — Done
"1990s. and later expanded" - while I agree that the sentence shouldn't be terribly long, you should find a way to rewrite this to reflect it's a new sentence, and not just a run-on. — ~~In progress~~ Done

Eh, "However in the last 20th century" doesn't make sense. I don't mind the reference to 2000s, either. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This part is totally hard for me.. I just remove the sentence. — ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 22:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Does " Information Technology" need to be capitalized? — Done
"Vietnam has an embassy in Kuala Lumpur, while Malaysia has an embassy in Hanoi" - should you clarify that both are the respective capitals of the other countries? — ~~In progress (actually I don't understand this, can you be more specifically)?~~ Done

Oh, just that it should be specified that Kuala Lumpur is the capital of Malaysia, and Hanoi is the capital of Vietnam. That's a pretty important fact, and isn't mentioned in the article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Both has an embassy located on each other capitals with Vietnam has an embassy in Kuala Lumpur, while Malaysia has an embassy in Hanoi and a consulate office in Ho Chi Minh City. " - poor grammar, specifically "has" (should be "have"), and the "with Vietnam..." part doesn't work. Add a comma after capitals, and find a way to make it flow better. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done Ok, rewording a bit.. Is it ok now? — ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 22:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Ho Chi Minh city" - capitalize "City"? — Done
" Tonkinese soldiers" - err, what is this? There's no link or anything. Also, "Malaccan" in that sentence should be linked there, not on its second use. — Done
"The Cham vassal state at Panduranga and Kelantan also cultivated close diplomatic ties especially during the reign of the Champa's Po Rome in the mid 17th-century when he led a long-term diplomatic mission to Kelantan in order to learn more about Malay culture and Islam." - bit long here. Could you restructure a bit? — Done, rewording
Add comma after "Po Saut" — Done
Make sure you link "Junk (ship)" — Done
"Not long after the establishment of Penang as a port at the end of the 18th century, Vietnam junks began to visit Penang for trade at the instruction of the Vietnamese emperor in Hue" - who established it? The British? Also, no need to say Penang twice. — Done
"A few had also settled down and assimilated with the local Chinese" - "few" is a weasel word. Find a way to avoid saying that (or "some" likewise) — Done
"In the late 1920s and early 1930s, Ho Chi Minh played a key role in facilitating the formation of the Nanyang Communist Party (later renamed as the Malayan Communist Party; MCP) in the 1920 and early 1930s" - redundancy — Done
Were either Malaysia or Vietnam invaded by Japan in WW2? If so, shouldn't that be mentioned? — ~~In progress~~ Done

"During the World War II, both the Viet Minh and Malayan Peoples' Anti-Japanese Army (MPAJA) are against the Japanese invasion of French Indochina and Malaya." - why the present tense? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC) Done[reply]

"before a period of significant decrease from 1984 to 1986," - did you mean to have the comma here and add something? Or should this be a period. — Done
"Members countries of ASEAN voiced their displeasure at the Vietnamese government for turning a blind eye on Vietnamese refugees from leaving Vietnam at a summit in June 1987" - try finding a way to avoid saying one of these "Vietnam"s — Done
"A year later in August 1988, Malaysia and Vietnam jointly formulated an involuntary repatriation whereby Vietnamese refugees would be persuaded to return home in 1988." - again, no need to say the year twice in the same sentence. — Done
"UNHCR" - what is this? — Done

Any time you have an acronym in an article, it must be spelled out, fwiw. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC) — Done[reply]

"The process involved thorough background checks on refugees before a decision would be made if they are qualified for refugee status" - this could be cleaner. Perhaps - "The process involved thorough background checks on refugees to determine if they qualify for such status..." Much simpler, much shorter, easier on the eyes. (and then you can add the last little bit about western countries) — Done
"refugees to qualify for refugee status" - pronouns are friends, not food :D — Done
"As Vietnam began to witness economic growth in the early 1990s, the number of refugee arrivals also quickly dropped in the early 1990s." - So... refugee arrivals in Malaysia? Or refugees who returned to Vietnam? I'm confused. — Done
"by which time Malaya had become Malaysia" - was it a simple renaming? If so, I'd say "by which time Malaya was renamed Malaysia." — Done
"In February 2013, the Vietnamese embassy secured the purchase of 0.69 hectares of land in Precinct 15, Putrajaya that would be used for the construction and subsequent relocation of the Vietnamese embassy." - any update about this? — ~~In progress (Didn't found any update about this)~~ Done

Alright, that's fine. However, you should also add a non-metric conversion for the 0.69 hectares (ideally in the form of acres). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"both countries dabbled on the idea of joint oil and gas exploration" - don't think "dabbled" is the most encyclopediac word here — Done

All in all, the article looks pretty solid. Most of the above is fairly small, and could be fixed without too much work. I'll put it on hold :) ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hurricanhink, can I help here? Seems the nominator didn't active at the moment. Btw, I have fix some of it. Cheers! :) — ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 09:13, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, thanks for the fixes. Just let me know when you get the last of it (you said some stuff was in progress). Everything looks good so far ^_^ ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, thank you also for reviewing this article. I think all the problems has been solved now.

— ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 16:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, just a few last things. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think now? The first part seems hard for me, just fix it if you have a better suggestion.. X_X — ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 22:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That works now. I just did one last tweak. Glad to pass now! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:51, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yay, congrats to Mr Tan for his lots effort on writing this article and thank you to Hurricanehink too for take a time to reviewing this!

— ᴀʟʀᴇᴀᴅʏ ʙᴏʀᴇᴅ^ʜᴜʜ? 17:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dai Viet war with Malacca

Dai Viet's ambush of Malay envoys to China.

http://epress.nus.edu.sg/msl/entry/1981

http://epress.nus.edu.sg/msl/entry/2657

Cham–Vietnamese War (1471)

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_011.pdf

http://www.aafv.org/spip.php?action=acceder_document&arg=2559&cle=a72c793f4c842206ab899315a3419d33a4609888&file=pdf%2FSunLaichen_ChineseStyleFirearmsInDaiViet.pdf

http://www.jstor.org/stable/20072535?

Military Technology Transfers from Ming China and the Emergence of Northern Mainland Southeast Asia (c. 1390-1527) Sun Laichen Journal of Southeast Asian Studies Vol. 34, No. 3 (Oct., 2003), pp. 495-517 Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of Department of History, National University of Singapore Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20072535 Page Count: 23

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZvWrAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=R5p7cRyK748C&pg=PA111&dq=1480,+according+to+Chinese+spies,+Dai+Viet+forces+took+20+of+Lan+Xang's+strong-+points+and+killed+“over+20,000”+Lao.+...+Tra+Toan+was+captured,+Laos+collapsed,+Ryukyu+was+defeated+.+.+.+the+barbarians+in+the+four+directions+surrendered,+.+.+.+the+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jaY3U5buJompsQSo-oHYDw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1480%2C%20according%20to%20Chinese%20spies%2C%20Dai%20Viet%20forces%20took%2020%20of%20Lan%20Xang's%20strong-%20points%20and%20killed%20“over%2020%2C000”%20Lao.%20...%20Tra%20Toan%20was%20captured%2C%20Laos%20collapsed%2C%20Ryukyu%20was%20defeated%20.%20.%20.%20the%20barbarians%20in%20the%20four%20directions%20surrendered%2C%20.%20.%20.%20the%20...&f=false

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=collapsed%2C+Ryukyu+was+defeated%2C+Cam+Cong+fled+and+died%2C+the+barbarians+in+the+four+directions+surrendered%2C+wind+blew+from+the+eight+directions.+%5BDuring+his%5D+thirty+-eight-year+rule%2C+the+country+was+peaceful+and+well+governed.+How+spectacular+...&btnG=#q=However%2C+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side%2C+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties)%2C+are&tbm=bks

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA104&dq=However,+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side,+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties),+are&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QdZKU_bTNvKssASljoHYCg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=However%2C%20this%20so%20far%20is%20not%20substantiated%20by%20other%20sources%20and%20the%20records%20on%20the%20Ryukyu%20side%2C%20as%20the%20Rekidai%20hoan%20(the%20precious%20records%20of%20the%20consecutive%20dynasties)%2C%20are&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA105&dq=collapsed,+Ryukyu+was+defeated,+Cam+Cong+fled+and+died,+the+barbarians+in+the+four+directions+surrendered,+wind+blew+from+the+eight+directions.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=G6Y3U7DhAo3NsQS8hYLADA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=collapsed%2C%20Ryukyu%20was%20defeated%2C%20Cam%20Cong%20fled%20and%20died%2C%20the%20barbarians%20in%20the%20four%20directions%20surrendered%2C%20wind%20blew%20from%20the%20eight%20directions.&f=false

Title Ming-Southeast Asian overland interactions, 1368-1644 Author Laichen Sun Publisher University of Michigan, 2000

266

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4QfAQAAMAAJ&q=However,+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side,+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties),+are&dq=However,+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side,+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties),+are&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QdZKU_bTNvKssASljoHYCg&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4QfAQAAMAAJ&q=In+1485,+Dai+Viet+included+Malacca+on+the+list+of+tributary+countries+such+as+Champa,+Lang+Sang,+Ayudhya,+and+Java.1221+According+to+a+Vietnamese+source,+Dai+Viet+during+the+late+Hong-duc+reign+(1470-97)+also+subdued+Ryukyu+(+Liuqiu).&dq=In+1485,+Dai+Viet+included+Malacca+on+the+list+of+tributary+countries+such+as+Champa,+Lang+Sang,+Ayudhya,+and+Java.1221+According+to+a+Vietnamese+source,+Dai+Viet+during+the+late+Hong-duc+reign+(1470-97)+also+subdued+Ryukyu+(+Liuqiu).&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M6c3U9ewKeLQsQSL7IGoBg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4QfAQAAMAAJ&q=The+details+of+Dai+Viet's+attempted+aggression+are+not+available,+but+it+seems+that+Malacca+was+directly+threatened+in+...+expanded+the+territories;+Tra+Toan+was+captured,+Laos+collapsed,+Ryukyu+was+defeated,+Cam+Cong+fled+and+died,+the&dq=The+details+of+Dai+Viet's+attempted+aggression+are+not+available,+but+it+seems+that+Malacca+was+directly+threatened+in+...+expanded+the+territories;+Tra+Toan+was+captured,+Laos+collapsed,+Ryukyu+was+defeated,+Cam+Cong+fled+and+died,+the&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kKU3U7tck6-wBKa0gZAG&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4QfAQAAMAAJ&q=According+to+Mao+Qiling+(hezhi+Mansi,+vol.+10,+p.+Lb),+Le+Thanh-tong+led+90,000+troops+to+invade+Lan+Sang+but+were+chased+by+%5Bthe+troops+of%5D+Malacca,+and+30,000+soldiers+died.+It+is+hard+to+explain+how+this+happened&dq=According+to+Mao+Qiling+(hezhi+Mansi,+vol.+10,+p.+Lb),+Le+Thanh-tong+led+90,000+troops+to+invade+Lan+Sang+but+were+chased+by+%5Bthe+troops+of%5D+Malacca,+and+30,000+soldiers+died.+It+is+hard+to+explain+how+this+happened&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g6Q3U7m0DKGosATh8oCgBQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4QfAQAAMAAJ&q=However,+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side,+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties),+are&dq=However,+this+so+far+is+not+substantiated+by+other+sources+and+the+records+on+the+Ryukyu+side,+as+the+Rekidai+hoan+(the+precious+records+of+the+consecutive+dynasties),+are&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RKY3U820O5SmsQSV4oCwAQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ

107

http://books.google.com/books?id=FNGGAAAAIAAJ&q=Though+Marrison+translated+Rakiu+as+Formosa,+it+should+be+understood+as+Ryukyu+kingdom,+and+it+is+likely+that+the+relations+...+Ceramics+and+silk+Confronted+with+Malacca+and+Ryukyu,+both+of+which+took+sides+with+Champa,+Dai-Viet+may+have+...&dq=Though+Marrison+translated+Rakiu+as+Formosa,+it+should+be+understood+as+Ryukyu+kingdom,+and+it+is+likely+that+the+relations+...+Ceramics+and+silk+Confronted+with+Malacca+and+Ryukyu,+both+of+which+took+sides+with+Champa,+Dai-Viet+may+have+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6KY3U4DMLsTLsQSr4YCQBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=fjsEn3w4TPgC&pg=PA365&dq=1999.+“A+Short+Introduction+to+Champa+Studies.”+In+The+Dry+Areas+in+Southeast+Asia,+Fukui+Hayao,+65—74.+Kyoto:+Center+for+Southeast+Asian+Studies,+Kyoto+University.+.+2008.+“Was+Dai+Viet+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu.”+In+China+and+Southeast+Asia,+ed.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tqY3U_nwM-q2sASk64DwAQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1999.%20“A%20Short%20Introduction%20to%20Champa%20Studies.”%20In%20The%20Dry%20Areas%20in%20Southeast%20Asia%2C%20Fukui%20Hayao%2C%2065—74.%20Kyoto%3A%20Center%20for%20Southeast%20Asian%20Studies%2C%20Kyoto%20University.%20.%202008.%20“Was%20Dai%20Viet%20a%20Rival%20of%20Ryukyu.”%20In%20China%20and%20Southeast%20Asia%2C%20ed.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=-01JisWpJbEC&pg=PA383&dq=115+Momoki+Shiro,+“Was+Dai+Viet+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu+within+the+Tributary+Trade+System+of+the+Ming+during+the+Early+Le+Period?”+(ms).+On+Dai+Viet's+foreign+trade+and+bullion+flows+in+this+period,+see+too+Sakurai,+“Age+of+Commerce,”+2;+Abu+Ridho,+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-6Y3U4_YNLe1sASjo4D4Dg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=115%20Momoki%20Shiro%2C%20“Was%20Dai%20Viet%20a%20Rival%20of%20Ryukyu%20within%20the%20Tributary%20Trade%20System%20of%20the%20Ming%20during%20the%20Early%20Le%20Period%3F”%20(ms).%20On%20Dai%20Viet's%20foreign%20trade%20and%20bullion%20flows%20in%20this%20period%2C%20see%20too%20Sakurai%2C%20“Age%20of%20Commerce%2C”%202%3B%20Abu%20Ridho%2C%20...&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ggyl2FSzXvgC&pg=PA13&dq=Third,+new+market+opportunities+opened+up+in+Japan,+possibly+in+connection+with+the+Ryukyu+network,+and+also+in+...+See,+for+example,+Shiro+Momoki,+%22Was+Dai-+Viet+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu+within+the+Tributary+Trade+System+of+the+Ming+during+the+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Fqc3U9WAE8zKsQTWwYLQAg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Third%2C%20new%20market%20opportunities%20opened%20up%20in%20Japan%2C%20possibly%20in%20connection%20with%20the%20Ryukyu%20network%2C%20and%20also%20in%20...%20See%2C%20for%20example%2C%20Shiro%20Momoki%2C%20%22Was%20Dai-%20Viet%20a%20Rival%20of%20Ryukyu%20within%20the%20Tributary%20Trade%20System%20of%20the%20Ming%20during%20the%20...&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=aSEJqSQS7wkC&pg=PA172&dq=The+Ryukyu+Islands,+it+is+well-known,+were+connected+to+various+ports+in+Southeast+Asia.+Therefore,+pepper,+sappanwood+and+...+%22Was+Dai+Viet+during+the+Early+Le+Period+(1428-1527)+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu?%22+-+On+the+maritime+horse+trade,+see+R.+P.+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Kac3U4SjKavnsAT6koKIAg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Ryukyu%20Islands%2C%20it%20is%20well-known%2C%20were%20connected%20to%20various%20ports%20in%20Southeast%20Asia.%20Therefore%2C%20pepper%2C%20sappanwood%20and%20...%20%22Was%20Dai%20Viet%20during%20the%20Early%20Le%20Period%20(1428-1527)%20a%20Rival%20of%20Ryukyu%3F%22%20-%20On%20the%20maritime%20horse%20trade%2C%20see%20R.%20P.%20...&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=52kfAQAAIAAJ&q=The+Ryukyu+Islands,+it+is+well-known,+were+connected+to+various+ports+in+Southeast+Asia.+Therefore,+pepper,+sappanwood+and+...+%22Was+Dai+Viet+during+the+Early+Le+Period+(1428-1527)+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu?%22+-+On+the+maritime+horse+trade,+see+R.+P.+...&dq=The+Ryukyu+Islands,+it+is+well-known,+were+connected+to+various+ports+in+Southeast+Asia.+Therefore,+pepper,+sappanwood+and+...+%22Was+Dai+Viet+during+the+Early+Le+Period+(1428-1527)+a+Rival+of+Ryukyu?%22+-+On+the+maritime+horse+trade,+see+R.+P.+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Kac3U4SjKavnsAT6koKIAg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ

http://books.google.com/books?id=05x5UGA8MmAC&pg=PA59&dq=ryukyu+dai+viet&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-6M3U92gA-vKsQShxILAAQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=ryukyu%20dai%20viet&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA103#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA119#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=TgkYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA252#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=R5p7cRyK748C&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=R5p7cRyK748C&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bc30ytJmwzMC&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=R5p7cRyK748C&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA101&dq=champa+gunpowder&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sNVKU5bAIOGgsQS9v4DIBw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=champa%20gunpowder&f=false

w:vi:Chiến tranh Đại Việt - Lan Xang (1478-1480)

w:vi:Chiến tranh Đại Việt-Chiêm Thành (1471)

Malaysia relationship with Cham and Cham community in Malaysia

Les Kosem

http://www.champaka.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=777:viengtham&catid=80:2012&Itemid=92

http://www.champaka.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=911:tiens&catid=34:lichsu&Itemid=28

Katip Suma's Jihad against Emperor Minh Mang's invasion of Champa in 1832-1835

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/78-the-uprisings-of-katip-sumat-and-ja-thak-wa-1833-1835

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/83-the-uprising-of-jathak-wa-1834-1835

http://books.google.com/books?id=3oMqrqSp1W4C&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://chamunesco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:the-raja-praong-ritual-a-memory-of-the-sea-in-cham-malay-relations&catid=45:van-hoa&Itemid=120

Meanwhile, lack document to record the yourneys of Malay came to Champa by sea. Execpt, the yourney of Tuen Phaow from Kelantan come to Champa by sea to lead a Jihad movement to expel theVietnamese army from the land of Champa

http://voa-islam.com//news/world-world/2009/07/01/96/history-of-islam-in-vietnam/;

http://voa-islam.com/news/world-world/2009/07/01/96/history-of-islam-in-vietnam/;

http://m.voa-islam.com/news/world-world/2009/07/01/96/history-of-islam-in-vietnam/;

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/vietnamesemuslims/hstry.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=Zw0j_5OauH8C&pg=PT180#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/news-tin-t-c/world-th-gi-i/120-the-champa-history-book-debut-and-a-seminar-on-the-indiginous-people-of-champa

http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac.jp/issue/issue4/article_353.html

http://kyotoreview.org/issue-5/vietnam-champa-relations-and-the-malay-islam-regional-network-in-the-17th-19th-centuries/

Rajmaan (talk) 03:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Katip Suma

Hi, I have removed the following paragraph:

"The Cham Muslim leader Katip Suma was educated in Kelantan and came back to Champa to declare a Jihad against the Vietnamese after Emperor Minh Mang's annexation of Champa.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]"

^ Jean-François Hubert (8 May 2012). The Art of Champa. Parkstone International. pp. 25–. ISBN 978-1-78042-964-9.
^ "The Raja Praong Ritual: A Memory of the Sea in Cham- Malay Relations". Cham Unesco. Retrieved 25 June 2015.
^ (Extracted from Truong Van Mon, “The Raja Praong Ritual: a Memory of the sea in Cham- Malay Relations”, in Memory And Knowledge Of The Sea In South Asia, Institute of Ocean and Earth Sciences, University of Malaya, Monograph Sries 3, pp, 97-111. International Seminar on Martime Culture and Geopolitics & Workshop on Bajau Laut Music and Dance”, Institute of Ocean and Earth Sciences and the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, University of Malaya, 23-24/2008)
^ Dharma, Po. "The Uprisings of Katip Sumat and Ja Thak Wa (1833-1835)". Cham Today. Retrieved 25 June 2015.

I think this point seems to be more of a fringe event concerning Malaysia-Vietnam relations and would be more appropriate for the Champa article. If it should be insisted that this should be included in the main text, I strongly advise more elaboration, as four sources are cited. Otherwise it really affects the overall quality of the prose as per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Paragraphs and Wikipedia:Verifiability#Verifiability_does_not_guarantee_inclusion.

I do also think that for just one sentence, choose the most reliable one, at the most two sources. Four sources really constitutes Wikipedia:Citation overkill. If the editor strongly feels about reintroducing this content into the text, I hope the above concerns maybe addressed, otherwise it might not pass the GA review. Mr Tan (talk) 18:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Malaysia–Vietnam relations/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Challenger.rebecca (talk · contribs) 02:17, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I assessed the article for quality. It still needs some work.

None of these parts have citations at the end.
"Formal relations between Malaya and South Vietnam were established in 1959 following a bilateral summit between Tunku Abdul Rahman and Ngo Dinh Diem a year earlier. An agreement between the countries to establish their respective embassies in Kuala Lumpur and Saigon respectively was reached in 1960, although the embassies were not established until 1964, by which time Malaya had been renamed Malaysia." Y — Rewrite, citation added.
"A sizeable number of Malaysian men have foreign wives. According to statistics provided by the Malaysian National Registry Department, one third of these are Vietnamese." Y — Rewrite, citation added. "Vietnam has a sizeable number of oil fields in the South China Sea." Y — Citation added.
"assistance to Johor to fend off a botched military conquest in the 1590s." Y — Citation added.

Also, provide more details about the "economic and national security problems to Malaysia", Y — More details added along with citation. and when you say "Subsequent kings after Po Rome", who was Po Rome the king of? Y

And here are some copy-edits.

en route to [the] Chinese Ming dynasty Y
The Vietnamese were defeated by Malacca(put this in active voice, not passive voice) Y
To the east in the Sultanate of Terengganu, ethnic Chinese from Cochinchina sailed there(this should be 'Ethnic Chinese from Cochinchina sailed to the east in the Sultanate of Terengganu') Y — Rewrite.
presiding [over] a ceremony to mark Y
who is[was] also of Vietnamese origin Y
[the] MCP's Secretary General Y
of the refugee camps,(use a period, not a comma) Y
as an[a] version of the Y
which[where] it has been located since 2004 Y
executive functions was[were] later Y
Precinct 15, Putrajaya(add comma after Putrajaya) Y
crime[s] involving the Y
"Malaysian clients have attributed their alluring physique and good hospitality practices to their popularity"(the other way around, they attributed their popularity to those other things) Y — Rewrite.
in economic as well as(economic what?) Fixed

Hi Challenger.rebecca, thanks for your time to take a review on this article. I would look up on the issues as soon as possible, just give me some time. Cheers! :) ~ Muffin Wizard^;) 10:13, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again, I have done fixing the part you've been asking for. ~ Muffin Wizard^;) 01:26, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Malacca defeat[defeated] Y
between Communist cadres from(no capitalization) Y
having sufficiently addressing[addressed] Y
Information Technology(no capitalization) Y
already established when South Vietnam recognising Federation of Malaya independence on 1957(change to 'established when South Vietnam recognized the Federation of Malaya's independence on 1957') Y
has[was] providing aid Y
later been replied(change to 'was reciprocated twice') Y
Malaya have transformed[transformed] Y
an additional territories[territory] Y
on[of] the American involvement Y
it withdrawal[withdrew] the embassy Y
partnership in economic[economic matters] Y
and the other way around, they attributed their popularity to those other things(change this to 'Malaysian clients have attributed their popularity to their alluring physique and good hospitality practices') Y
"when the Vietnamese government imposed a policy of confiscating private property from the South Vietnamese in that year." - Where does the citation say this? Fixed
-The sentence starting with "By the time of 1963 when Malaya have transformed" is too long and should be split up. Y Challenger.rebecca (talk) 16:50, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ohh my goodness, I'm already forgot you had replied to my answer, sorry for the late. I'm going to working it now >< ~ Muffin Wizard^;) 13:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done @Challenger.rebecca: hope you would tag my name in the future so I would be always know when you have replied. ~ Muffin Wizard^;) 13:45, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Muffin Wizard: Okay, I'll pass this. - Challenger.rebecca (talk) 17:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! :) ~ Muffin Wizard^;) 04:15, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Hubert2012-1] Jean-François Hubert (8 May 2012). The Art of Champa. Parkstone International. pp. 25–. ISBN 978-1-78042-964-9.

[2] "The Raja Praong Ritual: A Memory of the Sea in Cham- Malay Relations". Cham Unesco. Retrieved 25 June 2015.

[3] (Extracted from Truong Van Mon, “The Raja Praong Ritual: a Memory of the sea in Cham- Malay Relations”, in Memory And Knowledge Of The Sea In South Asia, Institute of Ocean and Earth Sciences, University of Malaya, Monograph Sries 3, pp, 97-111. International Seminar on Martime Culture and Geopolitics & Workshop on Bajau Laut Music and Dance”, Institute of Ocean and Earth Sciences and the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, University of Malaya, 23-24/2008)

[4] Dharma, Po. "The Uprisings of Katip Sumat and Ja Thak Wa (1833-1835)". Cham Today. Retrieved 25 June 2015.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]