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Archive 1

Requested move 3 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Already moved. by User:Elli. Closing per WP:AVALANCHE & WP:NOTBURO. (closed by non-admin page mover) CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 21:47, 7 October 2022 (UTC)


Mahsa Amini(Jina)Mahsa Amini – Article Mahsa Amini is redirecting to Death of Mahsa Amini whereas it is a different article. By moving Mahsa Amini(Jina) to Mahsa Amini this redirection problem will be resolvd. Caravaneternity (talk) 14:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NPOV template

has been added to this article per the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahsa Amini(Jina). Beccaynr (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Duplication

Parts of this article are copied from the other page and should be deleted. Shadow4dark (talk) 14:39, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

@Shadow4dark: All Wikipedia articles are licensed under CC-BY-SA 3.0 You can copy-paste any content from any article as long as you provide attribution (possibly by adding a link to that article) in the edit summary. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 17:01, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
@Shadow4dark - See Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia Christian75 (talk) 21:11, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Ok thanks, and the two pages are already merged. Shadow4dark (talk) 21:13, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Categorization

Should this page still be categorized? It directly redirects to Death of Mahsa Amini instead of something more specific. What's the protocol here? Charles Essie (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects. WWGB (talk) 02:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Mahsa Amini was a Kurdish-Iranian

I changed "an Iranian woman" to "a Kurdish-Iranian woman" at this article and Death of Mahsa Amini, because:

  1. Associated Press [1] the 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman
  2. Reuters [2] Kurdish-Iranian Mahsa Amini
  3. Agence France-Presse (via France24) [3] Amini, 22, an Iranian of Kurdish origin
  4. BBC News [4] the 22-year-old Kurd
  5. Al Jazeera Media Network [5] Mahsa Amini, the 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian
  6. The New Arab [6] a 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman
  7. Australian Broadcasting Corporation [7] Mahsa Jina Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  8. The Times (UK) [8] Mahsa Jina Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  9. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation [9] The 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  10. Le Monde [10] Mahsa Amini, an Iranian woman of Kurdish origin
  11. France24 [11] Amini, a 22-year-old Iranian Kurd
  12. Deutsche Welle [12] death of a young Kurdish-Iranian woman
  13. The Hindu [13] Mahsa Amini, 22, who was of Kurdish origin
  14. The Jerusalem Post [14] Mahsa Amini, an Iranian Kurd
  15. Times of Israel [15] Mahsa Amini, the 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman
  16. Haaretz [16] Kurdish-Iranian woman Mahsa Amini
  17. New York Times [17] 22-year-old Kurdish Iranian woman
  18. The Washington Post [18] The Kurdish woman, 22
  19. Wall Street Journal [19] Mahsa Amini, an ethnic Kurd
  20. CNN [20] Mahsa Amini, the Kurdish-Iranian woman
  21. NPR [21] the 22-year-old Kurdish Iranian woman
  22. PBS [22] 22-year-old Iranian Kurdish woman named Mahsa Amini
  23. NBC News [23] 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  24. ABC News [24] The 22-year-old Kurdish woman's death
  25. CBS News [25] The 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman
  26. Politico [26] Mahsa Jina Amini, the Kurdish Iranian woman
  27. The Hill [27] 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman
  28. Forbes [28] Amini, a Kurdish woman from Saqqez
  29. Bloomberg News [29] the death in custody of a Kurdish Iranian woman
  30. The Lancet [30] Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  31. Amnesty International [31] Mahsa/Zhina Amini, a young woman from Iran’s oppressed Kurdish minority
  32. Council on Foreign Relations [32] Mahsa Amini, a young Kurdish Iranian woman

I trust this is overwhelming enough that we don't really need like an RFC or anything about this. But, if anyone disagrees with this change, please say why, and if we need to, we can run an RFC. Levivich (talk) 19:36, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

The 'Kurdish-Iranian' should link to Kurds in Iran and not Iranian Kurdistan in my opinion. Semsûrî (talk) 20:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
That would be fine with me. Also other constructions like "an Iranian Kurd" would be fine with me, too. Levivich (talk) 20:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
MOS:ETHNICITY; "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is currently a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable. Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability." She is notable for her tragic murder by IRI authorities, not her ethnicity. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
In my view, 32 sources describing her as "Kurdish", "Kurdish Iranian", or similar, is enough to satisfy MOS:ETHNICITY. Any objection to Should the lead sentences of Mahsa Amini and Death of Mahsa Amini describe Mahsa Amini as an "Iranian woman" or a "Kurdish-Iranian woman" as an RFC question? Levivich (talk) 20:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Levivich, please take some time to read the rule, as you are clearly misinterpreting it, just like you have done with other stuff recently. She is only notable for her murder, and her ethnicity is already stated in the body of the article. It’s not because her Kurdish ancestry that we have an article of her, it’s because of her murder. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:13, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran, the MOS states "The opening paragraph should usually .... The word must is not used. That would suggest it is not a hard rule and there is room for leeway, which is generally the case with any sort of MOS in any organisation. @Levivich, I think the RfC question you pose is a good one. TarnishedPathtalk 04:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Indeed, but it does still say "should usually". As stated below, I think there should be another RFC opinion, one which has more relevance, something a la this (or another variant if someone can think of something better);
"Mahsa Amini's death ignited the Woman, Life, Freedom movement, rooted in her Kurdish background, which demands the end of compulsory hijab laws and other forms of discrimination and oppression against women in Iran." HistoryofIran (talk) 13:53, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Doesn't seem like anyone objects to that, so I've boldly added it to the lead of this article and Death of Mahsa Amini. If no one objects, we don't need an RFC about it.
I still think the lead sentence of both articles should describe her as a "Kurdish Iranian woman" because that's how so many RSes describe her, but maybe others think this addition is sufficient? Levivich (talk) 06:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Would be great to emphasise how Woman Life Freedom is actually of Kurdish origin. Moreover, I think Kurdish is better than Kurdish Iranian as the rest of the article itself explains the situation taking place is based in Iran. You can link Kurdish with "Kurds in Iran" and there would be no need to put in "Kurdish Iranian", many Kurds find that contentious. Accuratehistoryofkurdistan (talk) 06:31, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Levivich, I haven't yet explored scholarly sources, but this may help inform an eventual RFC, or simply help with article development. From my view, news sources you have identified seem to consider "Kurdish Iranian" relevant when describing her, and I listed some commentary sources below that seem to support the Kurdish aspect of her identity as relevant, as well as reporting about Kurdish-related aspects of protests and the Iranian government response. MOS:ETHNICITY says ethnicity should "generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability" - I am not aware of guidance or past RfCs about the amount and type of sourcing needed to establish relevance, but this seems to be a lower threshold than notability, and perhaps we should consider the weight of available reliable sources. Beccaynr (talk) 06:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe that her ethnicity played a central role concerning her story, with all due respect to what you said as you certainly have a good point. However, her story is noteworthy because of the intersection of her identity as both a Kurd and a woman. Accuratehistoryofkurdistan (talk) 06:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
I completely agree about giving scholarly sources more weight than news media. Levivich (talk) 06:48, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe that "Kurdish woman" would suffice if it would link to "Kurds in Iran". Accuratehistoryofkurdistan (talk) 06:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Is this discussion settled? TarnishedPathtalk 12:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
This discussion has become a bit fragmented, but I mentioned above [33] that think it would be helpful to conduct further research in scholarly sources in advance of considering and/or developing an RfC. Beccaynr (talk) 16:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
I took a quick look:
  • Journal of Middle East Women's Studies doi:10.1215/15525864-10815679 young Kurdish Iranian woman, Jina (Mahsa) Amini
  • Critical Sociology doi:10.1177/08969205231176051 Jîna Amini, a 22-year-old Kurdish woman
  • Survival doi:10.1080/00396338.2022.2150441 Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old woman from Iran’s Kurdistan region
  • Journal of Democracy doi:10.1353/jod.2023.0019 the death of the Kurdish Mahsa Zhina Amini
  • Dissent doi:10.1353/dss.2023.0032 Mahsa (Jina) Amini, a twenty-two-year-old Kurdish woman (not a peer reviewed journal, but written by scholars)
  • Rowman & Littlefield book, p. 3 22-year-old Kurdish woman, Mahsa Amini
  • but this Iranian Studies article doi:10.1017/irn.2023.18 (TWL link) says just 22-year-old Mahsa Amini and mentions she comes from "the Kurdish region" in the third paragraph
There are over 1,000 GS hits for "Mahsa Amini" (with quotes) [34], it seems many of them aren't "real" scholarship (e.g., undergrad papers), not sure if these are representative or not. Levivich (talk) 19:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
I don't know if you're going to find a tonne of scholarship on something so recent. TarnishedPathtalk 02:04, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
This conversation just ceased without any conclusion. Is this settled? TarnishedPathtalk 01:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

It is very well established, by countless sources (many mentioned above ...and why sources would need to be scholarly, I cannot begin to understand. This isn't a scientific question), that she was Kurdish. It would be ridiculous to deny this. I see no reason to describe her as "Kurdish-Iranian", rather than simply "Kurdish", but either is acceptable. "Iranian", however, would not.
The talk of how ethnicity "should not" be mentioned, according to MOS:ETHNICITY, is clearly not applicable, here. In part due to the importance of her ethnicity to the events (as mentioned above), and in part due to how her ethnicity/identity, and that of all Kurds in Iran, is constantly being denied/erased, in an act of cultural genocide (which should not be approved of, or supported, merely to satisfy MOS:ETHNICITY), which is also apparent in how/why she is officially registered as being named "Mahsa", despite actually being named "Jina".--94.255.132.163 (talk) 19:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2023

Sakharov Prize

The Award Ceremony

the award ceremony

The EP 2023 Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought was awarded to Jina Mahsa Amini and the Woman, Life, Freedom movement in Iran, in a ceremony on 12 December, 2023. The laureates were represented by Saleh Nikbakht, academic and lawyer representing Mahsa Amini’s family; and Afsoon Najafi and Mersedeh Shahinkar, Iranian women's rights defenders who left Iran in 2023.[1][2][3][4] Mahsa Amini's parents and brother were stopped from boarding their flight and had their passports confiscated. They were travelling to Strasbourg to be presented with the EU's Sakharov Prize.[5] GolistanK (talk) 18:48, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.Shadow311 (talk) 19:37, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Shadow311, "change X to Y" format" is for whenever you want to change some part of the text.. but here nothing is going to be changed. This is a new happened event which is directly related to this article and should be added to it after the section of "Sakharov Prize". So please add this new text with the new sources to the article. GolistanK (talk) 12:10, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
@GolistanK you at least need to indicate that you want the text to be added instead of saying nothing but the text. Shadow311 (talk) 14:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
@Shadow311, Ok, sorry... Please forgive me .. and Please add the text to the article.. Thank you GolistanK (talk) 15:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

References