Talk:Hugh de Beauchamp (sheriff)

DYK nom

Template:Did you know nominations/Hugh de Beauchamp (sheriff) Ealdgyth - Talk 14:37, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Dec 2024

I've reverted the additions for the following reasons:

• "was a Norman who held lands in England after the Norman Conquest.[2] lord of 59 places." Per MOS:LEAD the lead does not require citations when the information is sourced in the body of the article - so we don't need a badly formatted link to Open Domesday to show that Hugh held land. The "lord of 59 places." is unsourced and not a full sentence, and even if it was, it would need to be capitalized.
• The list of descendants is mostly unsourced, repeats the children who are already listed with a source in the paragraph above and goes into too much detail about descendants. Per WP:NOTGENEALOGY we don't do this sort of multiple generation descendancy.
• Even if we did genealogical descendancy charts - "To Ida had six children and to Gunnora had one son." is ungrammatical and frankly hard to parse.

Please learn what wikipedia is for and don't waste others time dealing with this sort of unhelpful editing. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Beauchamp Pedigree in the Publications of the Bedfordshire Historical Record Society, Vol. 1 states the family tree of this family I was going to add this as a reference point for the deleted genealogy, additionally I hyperlinked to other entries in Wikipedia. for the deleted tree. Pipera (talk) 19:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Pipera (talk)The list of descendants is mostly unsourced, repeats the children who are already listed with a source in the paragraph above and goes into too much detail about descendants. Per WP:NOTGENEALOGY we don't do this sort of multiple generation descendancy.

That is incorrect see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stammliste_der_Karolinger Stammliste der Karolinger

Can you remember to sign AFTER your post and learn how to indent, please? And that page is for German wikipedia - their policies and such do not apply here on English wikipedia. Ealdgyth (talk) 19:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no educational boundaries, what is represented in any of the Wikipedia entries is applied globally. Pipera (talk) 19:26, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

English Wikipedia does not generally do these sorts of long detailed genealogical descendancies. The idea is that each article is confined to information that helps the reader understand about that subject, not about tangential information - which the grandchildren and great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren are. Unless non-genealogical secondary sources discuss such things, we shouldn't either. Ealdgyth (talk) 19:32, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

That is also incorrect see: House of Tosny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Tosny Pipera (talk) 19:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

That isn't an article on a single person like this one is, so the comparison is not useful. What is useful to understand the subject of an article will differ between a biography of one person (this article) and an article covering the history of a noble house. Apples and oranges. Ealdgyth (talk) 19:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Charlemagne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne

Wives, concubines, and children is detailed on all his children and their details and this is an English Wikipedia article. Pipera (talk) 19:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

And this article already gives wife and possible children. We just don't need the grandchildren, the spouses of the grandchildren and the parentage of those spouses, or the great-grandchildren and thier spouses and parentage of those spouses. Charlemage's article just give spouses/wives/concubines and his children. Exactly what this article gives (because there is just one wife and two possible offspring, there is no need for a bulleted list). Ealdgyth (talk) 19:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Henry II Henry III of England - Wikipedia Pipera (talk) 19:56, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Lords of Cemais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Cemais

FitzMartin FitzMartin - Wikipedia

Each are detailed. Pipera (talk) 19:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Please learn to LINK articles within wikipedia .... you've been here long enough to know how. The Cemais one is a list, and not genealogicaly listed. The FitzMartin article I found FitzMartin, is again, about a noble house, not an individual. Also - WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is useful reading - just because there's an article/list/something that doesn't fit with a policy/guideline, doesn't mean that we should scrap the policy/guideline. Ealdgyth (talk) 19:49, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I used https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9F%A5%E7%90%86%E6%9B%BC as a source in a German article on Charlemagne and this is educationally sound, it enforces a reference that I used in an article to support this. Pipera (talk) 19:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Pipera (talk) these edits have made a total hash of this ... learn to figure out what a citation is and who the author is (hint - the 1913 Bedfordshire Historical Record Society thing you're trying to cite is already in the article - it's Chambers and Fowler. These cites break cite-text integrity, and are just not the way we write encyclopedia articles ... this has been explained over and over and over ...

You removed my reference https://archive.org/details/publicationsofbe01bedf/page/n40/mode/1up?q=Hugh+de+Beauchamp+sheriff it has nor ever been used as a reference there. States a full pedigree OF this person and his descendants.

A full pedigree of the Beauchamp of Bedford can be found at Publications of the Bedfordshire historical record society by Bedfordshire Historical Record Society.cn Publication date 1913[18] including descendants and future generations.

You also removed a hyperlink to a descendant of this person.

The links to Domesday Book that also have been removed.

Name: Hugh of Beauchamp https://opendomesday.org/name/hugh-of-beauchamp/ Name: Hugh of Beauchamp This landowner is associated with 0 places before the Conquest; 48 after the Conquest. (Note that the same name is not necessarily the same person.)

After the Conquest Tenant-in-chief in 1086: Tenants-in-chief held land directly from the Crown.

Aspley [Guise], Manshead, Bedfordshire Astwick, Biggleswade, Bedfordshire Bengeo, Hertford, Hertfordshire Biddenham, Buckelowe, Bedfordshire Bletsoe, Buckelowe, Bedfordshire » Show 40 more Lord in 1086: The immediate lord over the peasants after the Conquest, who paid tax to the tenant-in-chief.

Bolnhurst, Stodden, Bedfordshire Bromham, Buckelowe, Bedfordshire Cardington, Wichestanestou, Bedfordshire Chainhalle, Buckelowe, Bedfordshire Cople, Wichestanestou, Bedfordshire » Show 19 more

Hugh 27 https://pase.ac.uk/domesday/person/40408/

Hugh 27 Description: Hugh de Beauchamp, fl. 1086 Gender: Male Author: SDB Editorial Status: 2 of 5 Name Discussion of the name: Previous person of name: Next person of name: Distribution map of property and lordships associated with this name in DB

They are actually from the research project which was under the auspice of the University of Hull.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hugh_de_Beauchamp_(sheriff)&diff=prev&oldid=1262961353

The template does not place references in the reference list it places then in the Citation Record this needs to be rectified.

Domesday Book and Publications of the Bedfordshire historical record society by Bedfordshire Historical Record Society. cn Publication date 1913

Have added the following Domesday entries:

Pase Record of Hugh de Beauchamp Hugh 27 https://pase.ac.uk/domesday/person/40408/

Name: Hugh of Beauchamp https://opendomesday.org/name/hugh-of-beauchamp/

These records support the article in Wikipedia.

Have added the following link that displays the family connections of this family:

Publications of the Bedfordshire historical record society https://archive.org/details/publicationsofbe01bedf/page/n40/mode/1up?q=Hugh+de+Beauchamp+sheriff

Gives details of his descendants and supports the article and future generations of the family. This was removed.