Talk:Hotel Belleclaire

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

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The Hotel Belleclaire

• ... that after a guest smuggled a lion into the Hotel Belleclaire using a piano crate, the lion was thrown out of the hotel? Source: "Has No Room for a Lion.: New York Hotel Dispossesses Animal That Arrived in Plano Box". The Washington Post. May 25, 1920. p. 6.
  • ALT1: ... that Maxim Gorky was forced to leave the Hotel Belleclaire because he was staying with a woman who was not his wife? Source: "Gorky Twice Evicted From Gotham Hotels: Belleclaire and Lafayette-Brevoort Eject Him and His Actress Companion". St. Louis Post - Dispatch. April 15, 1906. p. A1.
  • ALT2: ... that after the Hotel Belleclaire's management found that Maxim Gorky was staying there with a woman who was not his wife, Gorky was thrown out? Source: "Gorky Twice Evicted From Gotham Hotels: Belleclaire and Lafayette-Brevoort Eject Him and His Actress Companion". St. Louis Post - Dispatch. April 15, 1906. p. A1.
  • ALT3: ... that the sons of the Hotel Belleclaire's architect considered the hotel's design to be full of "junk and gunk"? Source: "The Skyline Factory". Newsweek. Vol. 70, no. 12. September 18, 1967. p. 98.
  • Reviewed: Ben Ofoedu
  • Comment: QPQ pending, more hooks later

Created by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 19:26, 8 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Hotel Belleclaire; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: @Epicgenius: Good article. Just need a QPQ. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: Thanks for the review, and sorry for the long wait. I have now done a QPQ. Epicgenius (talk) 23:05, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Approve. Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

1908 lease

Who got the lease in 1908? First it says "Saxe leased the building to Frank A. Archambault in August 1908 for 21 years at $65,000 a year," then the next paragraph starts with "Albert R. Keen sold the hotel's lease in November 1910 to California hotelier Elmer F. Woodbury for $150,000, with 19 years remaining on the lease." Was it Archambault or Keen? Drmab (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

It was sold by Keen on behalf of Archambault. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:31, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Hotel Belleclaire/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 22:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Matthew Yeager (talk · contribs) 02:04, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll take this review and provide feedback over the next day Matthew Yeager (talk) 02:04, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Overall

It was a pleasure to read your contributions. Excellent article, I enjoyed the process. Few small details on some of the sources, and then how you'd like to handle all the NYT sources I've detailed below. Should be moving quickly to pass. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Matthew Yeager (talk) 21:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

For the NYT articles it might more likely be a site-wide Wikipedia issue to handle systematically. It is disappointing that you've made the work so accessible via your writing, and then the references remain less accessible for readers to access and validate. Matthew Yeager (talk) 21:17, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately, something has inadvertently changed some dates within NYT links. You'll need to scroll to the === 1910s to 1930s === section of your diff to find 4 instances of date updates. Here are what the before / after looks like:

• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1910/11/04/archives/in-the-real-estate-field-west-seventeenth-street-loft-figures-in-a.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1900/11/04/archives/in-the-real-estate-field-west-seventeenth-street-loft-figures-in-a.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1910/12/12/archives/bronx-in-fear-of-burglars-many-stores-robbed-by-a-gang-of-thieves.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1900/12/12/archives/bronx-in-fear-of-burglars-many-stores-robbed-by-a-gang-of-thieves.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1911/09/23/archives/hotel-man-bankrupt-elmer-f-woodbury-owes-60000-on-hotel-belleclaire.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1901/09/23/archives/hotel-man-bankrupt-elmer-f-woodbury-owes-60000-on-hotel-belleclaire.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1914/05/23/archives/the-real-estate-field-herbert-du-puy-buys-hotel-belleclaire-on.html
• |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1904/05/23/archives/the-real-estate-field-herbert-du-puy-buys-hotel-belleclaire-on.html

Thanks for taking a look Matthew Yeager (talk) 21:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Matthew Yeager, whoops, looks like I accidentally messed up while using the search and replace function. Thanks for pointing these out. I have now fixed these links. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:20, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Section by Section

• Y Lead - Well rounded and well written. I have a great summary and expectation for how the article will be structured.
• Y Site - Prose flow through historical review of the site, focused on major developments and periods.
• Y Architecture - Excellent. Concise while containing everything to set the building's architecture within the time, in contrast to others, and its' place in the architect's career. Y Facade > Y Base, Y Upper stories.
• Y Features - Clear understanding of how readers ingest information by distilling complex ideas into easily accessible sentences with well place wikilinks and note. Without your work, this information would be out of reach for many to appreciate. Y Public areas, Y Rooms.
• Y History - Another excellent section, exemplifying broad topic coverage with a focus. Y Development and early years, Y 1910s to 1930s, Y 1940s to 1990s, Y Horn operation.
• Y Critical reception
• Y See also

Sources

• I cannot access any of the 30 ProQuest sources
• Y Landmarks Preservation Commission 2013
• Y Landmarks Preservation Commission 1987

Too bad this is the official landmark designation, because it isn't clear LP-1507 is the reference number.

• Reference 11 - I believe the url should be updated https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924015151404&view=1up&seq=218226
  • I have done this. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• Reference 23 - "Hotel Belleclaire: New York, NY". InspireDesign. - Redirects to home page. Please update |url-status=dead
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• Reference 33 - "Allure restaurant and cocktail lounge to open at historic Manhattan hotel". New York Business Journal. Please update cite web to include |url-access=subscription
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• FYI (no change requested) - As of 2023, the Belleclaire has 254 rooms.[35] still valid on the archive link, while the current text on the webpage says our 262 accommodations, Hotel Belleclaire.
  • Thanks for bringing this up. I have changed this figure now. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• Reference 107 - "Upper West Side's New Look is Mixed Bag". The Wall Street Journal. Requires a subscription to access. Please update cite web to include |url-access=subscription.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• Reference 109 - "Fancy Pastry Shop Will Take Over Former Big Nick's Space". Gothamist. Requires registration. Please update cite web to include |url-access=registration.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• FYI (no change requested) Mansions in the Clouds: The Skyscraper Palazzi of Emery Roth is also available [1] which can be borrowed for free with registration.
  • Great catch - I've added the archive.org link. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

New York Times - Access

Each of these requires a subscription to view. Would you update cite web to include |url-access=subscription?

• Reference 4 - "Apartment Trading a Market Feature; Multi-Family Houses in Manhat- tan Valued at About $8,000,- 000 Change Ownership". The New York Times.
• Reference 58 - "In the Real Estate Field; Upper Riverside Drive Corner Sold to Builders -- Hotel Belleclaire Leased -- Day's Dealings by Brokers and at Auction". The New York Times.
• Reference 61 - "In the Real Estate Field; Sixth Avenue Landmark Again Changes Hands -- William Waldorf Astor Sells on Upper Broadway -- Lexington Avenue Purchase". The New York Times.
• Reference 62 - "In the Real Estate Field; West Seventeenth Street Loft Figures in a $750,000 Trade -- Buying Seventh Avenue Property for Improvement -- The Florham Sold -- Bronx and Suburban Sales". The New York Times.
• Reference 64 - "Bronx in Fear of Burglars; Many Stores Robbed by a Gang of Thieves -- Hold-Ups Also Reported". The New York Times.
• Reference 66 - "Hotel Man Bankrupt; Elmer F. Woodbury Owes $60,000 on Hotel Belleclaire Purchase". The New York Times.
• Reference 67 - "The Real Estate Field; Herbert Du Puy Buys Hotel Belleclaire on Broadway in $2,250,000 Deal -- Murray Hill Residence Sold -- Brooklyn and Long Island Transactions -- Business and Dwelling Leases". The New York Times.
• Reference 70 - "Belleclaire Hotel Addition". The New York Times.
• Reference 73 - "March Market Slowed Up From High February Peak". The New York Times.
• Reference 75 - "Stores for Hotel Belleclaire Estimated to Cost $100,000". The New York Times.
• Reference 78 - "Two Hotels Are Leased; F.W. Brindle Gets the Belleclaire-- Hamilton for Knott Chain". The New York Times.
• Reference 81 - "Belleclaire Hotel Leased for 21 Years; Structure at Broadway and Seventy-seventh St. Is Taken by the Low-Ben Corporation". The New York Times.
• Reference 83 - "West Side Property Bid in at Auctions; Forced Sales Include Ten-Story Belleclaire at Seventy-seventh Street and Broadway". The New York Times.
• Reference 85 - "Hotel Sold at Broadway and 77th Street". The New York Times.
• Reference 87 - "OPA Cracks Down on 22 Hotels, 6 Apartment Houses in Rent Drive". The New York Times.
• Reference 89 - "Catholic Diocese Buys on W. 55th St; Gets Buildings of National Bible Institute -- Other Deals in Manhattan". The New York Times.
• Reference 92 - "Catholic Diocese Buys on W. 55th St; Gets Buildings of National Bible Institute -- Other Deals in Manhattan". The New York Times.
• Reference 93 - "3 Manhattan Buildings Are Named Landmarks". The New York Times.
• Reference 94 - "Streetscapes: The Dakota Stables; A 'Soft-Site' Garage on the Booming West Side". The New York Times.
• Reference 95 - "New York to Expand Use of Welfare Hotels". The New York Times.
• Reference 97 - "Lodging Plan For Homeless Is Postponed". The New York Times.
• Reference 99 - "Hotel Owner Alters Stance On Homeless". The New York Times.
  • I have done all of these. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Each of these NYT references is provided with limited access. How do you feel about updating cite web to include |url-access=limited?

• Reference 9 - "Commercial Property/Upper West Side; Flamboyant Landmark Hotel, Restored for Tourists". The New York Times
• Reference 24 - "Streetscapes: The Belleclaire; A 1903 Home for the Homeless". The New York Times.
• Reference 32 - "Hotel Belleclaire: A Dowager on the Rise". The New York Times.
• Reference 41 - "In the Real Estate Field; Henry Dazian Buys Southeast Corner of Broadway and 40th St. William Ziegler's Purchase -- Title Passed in Several Important Transactions -- No Auction Sales". The New York Times.
• Reference 52 - "Singer Besieged in Hotel Rooms; Bessie Abott, Sulng Conried, Has Exciting Day at the Belleclaire". The New York Times.
• Reference 57 - "Milton Roblee Fails; Liabilities, $285,600; Receiver Appointed for Bartholdi Hotel's Manager. HIS CREDITORS RESTRAINED Court Order Permits Him to Carry on Business -- His Debts Are for Rent and Hotel Supplies". The New York Times.
• Reference 100 - "Upper West Side Facade Snatchers". The New York Times.
• Reference 101 - "Crumbling Building Exteriors Tie Up Traffic in Several Parts of Manhattan". The New York Times.
• Reference 103 - "Council Unit Votes to Require More Inspections of Buildings". The New York Times.
• Reference 105 - "Neighborhood Report: Upper West Side; Tenants Fear a Conversion Will End an S.R.O.'s Life . . ". The New York Times.
• Reference 106 - "Fretting Over Burgers on the Upper West Side". The New York Times.
• Reference 113 - "What Happened When Homeless Men Moved Into a Liberal Neighborhood". The New York Times.
  • I have done all of these as well. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Feedback

• Not asking for a change - only giving feedback: Including a drawing to illustrate the features which effectively divided the Belleclaire into five wings: three facing south and two facing north would help the reader visualize. There is the original floor plan in three of the sources p164 (226 in the scan) fig. 3 (p13 in the pdf) Mansions in the Clouds: The Skyscraper Palazzi of Emery Roth p. 45
  • Thanks for the review Matthew Yeager. I've addressed all the issues you mentioned above, except for the image of the floor plan, which I will upload in a bit. Epicgenius (talk) 21:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.