Talk:Hamden, Connecticut

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Removed unsourced information

The text below lacked a source. (It is not sourcable to the Census data that is the basis for the rest of the Demographics section.) This can be restored if it comes from a published reliable source, but Wikipedia cannot publish original research (even if it's true, it needs to be verifiable).

Like sister suburbs West Haven and East Haven, Hamden's white population has a plurality of Italian-Americans, recalling huge-scale Italian immigration to New Haven in the early 1900s, though Irish, Polish, and German ancestries are also quite common.

--Orlady (talk) 13:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Surrounding towns

I added an account of which (6) towns surround it. That drew my attention to the vagueness of many maps whether Hamden and Prospect have a common boundary. The following treatment of that issue, includ~~ing~~es the fact that it's quite practical to have evidence that you've passed between Hamden and Prospect, without having clear evidence that you've been been in Cheshire (and in one case in Bethany as well) in doing so. IMO that makes Prospect a surrounding town in a sense not very much looser than the sense in which there are only 6, which do not include Prospect.
IMO, that's not necessarily notable, and pretty much OR. But having done the OR, here is the result:

The northwesternmost point in Hamden is wooded, mountainous ground on the north flank of Mt. Sanford in the Naugatuck State Forest, and from that point the common boundary of Cheshire and Bethany continues about 1000 feet (300 m) to the southeasternmost point in Prospect without crossing any road.
While Hamden has no common boundary with Prospect, hikers following the Quinnipiac Trail -- or the combination of the Sanford Alternate Trail with portions of the Quinnipiac Trail -- between Downes Road in Hamden and Connecticut Route 42 in Cheshire, will, between Sanford Brook and Route 42, meet no other roads, and twice cross the boundary between Cheshire and Prospect; while in Prospect, they will pass within a few hundred feet of points on the Prospect portion of Route 42.

--Jerzy•t 09:12 & 09:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources that aid in establishing the preceding:
Connecticut Walk Book -- West: The Guide to the Blue-Blazed Hiking Trails of Western Connecticut, including the Metacomet and Mattabesett Trails", 19th ed'n, Connecticut Forest and Park Association, 16 Meriden Road, Rockfall, Connecticut 06481; ISBN 0-96190526-3. "Quinnipiac Trail [Map] QP-6, p. 237.
"Mount Carmel, CT Quadrangle, USGS 7.5 Minute Series, 1954" (primarily Northwest quarter)

--Jerzy•t 09:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In other areas I've seen that when articles start listing places that are kind of nearby as "surrounding" or "adjacent" places, the situation tends to spiral out of control (turning an encyclopedia article into something more like a personal blog). This is a formal description of geography, and I think it makes sense to follow the strict rule of only listing "bordering" towns as "adjacent."

I revised the wording of the article to clarify that it lists towns that "border" Hamden. That is unambiguous, and it excludes Prospect. The northwest corner of Hamden almost abuts with the southeast corner of Prospect at a point where the borders of Cheshire, Hamden, Prospect, and Bethany intersect, but there is a short border between Cheshire and Bethany that separates the corner of Hamden from the corner of Prospect. (See this map.) --Orlady (talk) 15:23, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Augerville

Can anyone tell me if there is any truth in the potted history for the Augerville name here - http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/early-willis-churchill-hollow-auger-bit-for-brace

And aside from US census data, does anyone have any information about the Willis Churchill referred to in that link?

I'm doing a lot of work on an English engineering business which I *think* was founded by Willis's son, Charles, but I've got to prove the point (with verifiability, of course!) I know that a Willis Churchill was sending patent information to Charles in London, UK, in 1868/69. I know that Charles was born in Conn. and he is on the 1850 census in Hamden with a Willis (f), Amelia (m) and siblings; I've got other stuff from later US census data and also know that in the 1881 UK census his mother & one of his sisters were staying with him (Charles) in London. Sitush (talk) 03:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that Augerville is an area of Hamden that got its name (the name is no longer in use) from the auger factory that used to be there. I don't know anything about the people named in your comment or on that web page. --Orlady (talk) 04:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Orlady, I've just managed to track down a book which mentions both Churchill and Wm Ives, and their businesses - http://www.archive.org/details/historyofnewhave00rock I'm not sure that it is helpful for my cause but it does look interesting in its own right. Now, if I could prove that Willis Churchill gained a US patent in the 1870s for "an improved implement for drawing nails" or for a gas burner then I will have made the link, to my satisfaction at least. Sitush (talk) 05:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I found another online book [1] that has some of the same general information. It says that Willis Churchill was "a mechanic of rare ability, original in the style of his goods and in his process of manufacture." Those words suggest someone who might have obtained a patent, but it appears that Willis was a mature adult well before 1835 (James Ives, who started in business on his own in 1835, had earlier been apprenticed to Willis Churchill), so it's unlikely that he was patenting things in the 1870s. --Orlady (talk) 05:45, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link. Unless I am misreading the US census data, Willis is 70 on the 1880 count - https://www.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpilot.familysearch.org%2Frecords%2Ftrk%3A%2Ffsrs%2Frr_219505299%2Fp_372248434&hash=HloWXpZgU9zB10k5M56iYku8TUc%253D . I can track him back thru to the 1850, although there is no 1870 for some reason. I know WP isn't really about genealogy but this is a pretty straightforward one and if only for my own satisfaction I'd like to see it through. I'm not a relation or anything like that. The article, BTW, is Churchill_Machine_Tool_Company. Sitush (talk) 06:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting article. I now understand your curiosity. Considering that Willis Churchill and his associates were engaged in the U.S. manufacture of tools previously available only as imports from England, a son of his would seem a likely candidate to be the American who became a tool manufacturer in England. However, the "historyofnewhave00rock" book refers to "three Churchill brothers" identified as "J., N., and L." -- no "C" on that list. At this point, I think the connection of the British company with Willis Churchill of Augerville may be too tenuous to be described in an article here (it looks like a case of WP:SYN, at best), but this definitely is worth researching further. --Orlady (talk) 17:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The J, N & L issue is unfortunate but I've already got an idea in my head of what has happened here. Willis definitely had at least two brothers, Joel Norton & Levi. The reference to brothers is ambiguous and could mean Willis's brothers rather than those of his son, Charles. I do agree that this most likely will end up being WP:SYN but if I push it as far as I can and then stick the results on the article talk page then it can do no harm; and if in the process I strike gold somewhere then that's a great thing. I really do appreciate all your input on this. Charles had a son called Willis, BTW. Sitush (talk) 17:33, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When I read about the brothers, I also thought it likely that they were the brothers of Charles, not his sons. The existence of a son named Willis is a strong suggestion of a connection! I have run into confusing situations in which multiple generations and family branches using similar names have gotten confounded with one another (for example, with people named Return J. Meigs and people named Rowland Hazard), so I'd be hesitant to infer that this means Charles was Willis' son -- it could be a nephew, for example. --Orlady (talk) 19:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Argh! I can't see the content of your link. Google Books haven't got a preview for it here - they block some stuff outside of the USA & I'm in UK. Sitush (talk) 06:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another update: found it scanned here - http://www.quinnipiac.edu/other/abl/etext/hamden/hamden.html Sitush (talk) 08:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was afraid of the Google issue, but hoped they would make an 1886 book freely available. Glad you found it online. For what it's worth, that book shows that Willis Churchill was registered as a "freeman" (i.e., qualified to participate as a voter in town meetings) in 1834 and it gives a date of 1853 for incorporation of his business. --Orlady (talk) 17:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how the US birth/marriage/death system works but if someone can verify that a Charles Churchill married a Charlotte Louise Lewis on 19 March 1861 and that said Charles Churchill's address at that time was somewhere in New England (the nearer to Hamden or Bristol, the better) then I think I've proved it with verifiability & will be able to add an interesting piece to the WP article I am working on. Did the US have a marriage certificate system at that time? Is it going to cost megabucks for me to check? Sitush (talk) 01:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage certificates are not a national requirement in the U.S., but are a state-by-state matter. I don't know if they were required as of 1861. However, I do know that family history researchers tend to look for 19th-century marriage records in church records, not in government records. --Orlady (talk) 17:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This issue is now resolved. Many thanks to Orlady for the contributions, advice etc - much appreciated. Sitush (talk) 04:09, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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I was tempted to remove the picture of Edgerton Park Conservatory. The park straddles the New Haven-Hamden city line, but the conservatory is entirely in New Haven. Pausau (talk) 21:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)Pausau[reply]

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1898 Hamden Connecticut Door Tree.png

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