Talk:Ganja, Azerbaijan

Emblem of Ganca

The coat of arms used in the article is not being used since 1918 and I think it would be wiser to move it to the history section rather than display it as the emblem of the city. I have an image of the modern emblem adopted on January 21, 2003. I am still trying to figure out how to place it and what to do with licence. Does it count as a fair use if it is being used anywhere in the city?? Gancali 9:41, 4 November 2006(UTC)

2nd or 3rd largest?

Is it 2nd largest, like the lead says, or 3rd, like it says in demographics? Troll Control (talk) 09:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

(late reply) Troll Control, I believe it's 3rd large as per the 2020 statistics, Ganja has a population of 335,600 while Sumgait has a population of 345,300. Though in most places, including official Azerbaijani documents, Ganja is written as the second-largest city, so I'm somewhat confused here. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 05:48, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Demographics

Demographics reflected on the this article is based on information from low quality web site created on free hosting: "Кировабадский горсовет (1979 г.)". Ethno-Caucasus (in Russian). Archived from the original on 9 June 2012. At first look you think that archived from original means that from original legitimate information, but actually it just archived copy of this free hosting web page. Information provided on this page are conclusions of the author of this web page. This conclusions are not checked and verified by anyone. Therefore all information which refers to http://www.ethno-kavkaz.narod.ru/ shall be removed from article, until validity of information will be proved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.20.248.246 (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Armenian name

Hello there. Can you tell me why there is an Armenian name in this article? Armenians have never been majority there and it's not a common name. If so, there should be an Azerbaijani name in the Yerevan article. VivaEspana11 (talk page) 19:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC) <--- CU blocked sock of User:EljanM

Names in the lede

@Mfikriansori: I made this talk page section for you out of sheer WP:GF. Please discuss your concerns over here with Kevo327 and ZaniGiovanni in relation to the lede. I.e. why, or why not, should the Armenian/Persian names be added to the lede? - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

ZaniGiovanni wasn't involved in this particular dispute as far as I can see, but I noticed you two have had similar disagreements at related AA2 articles. Reaching a consensus here might cool the atmosphere. @Mfikriansori, as you haven't made that many edits on Wikipedia yet, please remember; edit warring is never an option, especially within contentious topic areas such as WP:AA2. I will voice my own opinion on this one later. Thanks, - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

LouisAragon I don't have an opinion yet regarding this, but I'd say most of the recent edits by this user aren't constructive and very often are just POV or subtle POV push. They remove / change the Armenian (and official at the time) names like here which adds 0 value to the article and isn't the official city name of that time period. Similarly, only in the opposite direction, they add Khankendi next to common and modern name Stepanakert [1], or completely change it, both instances isn't even the main city's article, Stepanakert (which already covers everything). Unconstructive and disruptive edits in random AA articles, especially without any consensus, is definitely not the way to go Mfikriansori. They're still edit-warring over their own vague additions [2], [3], completely disregarding consensus and onus, even after advice and warnings in their talk page. I don't see how this stubbornness coupled with POV pokes, and disregard for core wiki policies is going to help the already contentious AA area. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

LouisAragon Wikipedia as a free encyclopedia means people can edit it freely, of course if their edit was not about to vandal the article as well has backed up by reliable source. Okay, I have heard enough of so-called CONSENSUS, eventhough I don't yet learn about the scheme. But, I am curious why Ganja article, a city in Azerbaijan must contained all names from Persian, Armenian, and even Russian in the lede/introduction paragraph. One of the reason given to me is because Persian and Armenian were historically present there and had huge population. Meanwhile Russian, their also had their historic presence there. However, why don't we do the same with Yerevan article? Which according to some sources like [4], [5], [6], [7], or [8], other than Armenian, Tatar or Turkic people and Persian also had an essential presence there? Thank you. I just don't want Wikipedia to look as hypocrite, where this scheme is applied to "these articles", but can't be applied to "those articles". Should I begin to add Turkic, Persian, and Russian ones to the lede of Yerevan artikel, now? Mfikriansori (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Mfikriansori: Look, this is WP:AA2 territory. Its covered by discetionary sanctions, which means its super contentious. You started editing this topic area in early 2022,[9] which is pretty recent, and have been making many overly WP:BOLD edits. Reverting,[10]-[11]-[12] tag-bombing. You name it.[13] In fact, since you have started editing AA2, as far as I can see, you haven't made more than 1 or 2 content-related edits within this topic area. When I speak about content-related edits I'm referring to: 1) expanding/improving per Wikipedia's guidelines 2) adding sources, etc. Making too many bold edits within such topic area's isn't advised, especially when you're a new editor. It looks super disruptive, even if the editor's intentions are not necessarily disruptive in nature. I highly advise you to just create talk page sections next time before initiating and/or continuing edit wars (as you did here). You're also free to create a RfC if you want. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Now regarding this particular article. I don't think the Armenian and Persian transliterations should be included in the lede. They should be mentioned in the body of the article. The Yerevan analogy you bring up is flawed however; Yerevan has had an Armenian majority for most of its history, and it is the capital of Armenia. Unlike Yerevan, Ganja is a regional city, and it didn't have a Turkic and/or Azerbaijani majority for a long period of time during its history. I'm not even going in detail about its massive cultural and historic importance to Armenians and Iranians to the point that it is simply incomparable to that of the Turkic-speakers in Yerevan. For instance, one of the greatest Persian poets in history, Nizami Ganjavi, was from Ganja. He authored some of the greatest works in Persian literature. I don't think anything close to such significance can be said about Yerevan in relation to historic Turkic speakers (or Russians for that matter). - LouisAragon (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Honestly Armenian, Persian, or even Georgian name in the lede for any article is not a problem for me, as long as it has some degree of importance or significance. What I found problematic is in disguised of consensus, which some of them I found none when looked for in the talk page, my edit which only about adding other name to various article regarding Armenia is under attack and labelled highly disruptive. It is something that I can't swallow, because why we let Armenian name in so many articles of its neighboring countries, including this Ganja city, Lake Urmia, Nemrut Volcano, etc. Then deliberately prevent the same when I do vice versa? Can't we reach another consensus, like if Armenian name can be there in the lede, other names should have a chance too to be put in article like Lake Sevan, Hadrut, etc.

Last from me, eventhough maybe (as I don't study the presence of Turkic people in historic Yerevan deeply) not as significant as you said LouisAragon, they once formed the majority. Not only for one or two decades, but maybe a century. Even there was time when Armenian church was hard to find, many mosques commissioned by Erivan/Irevan Khanate (which labelled as Iranian/Persian), a Turkic khanate ruled over piece of South Caucasus. There were also other Turkic khanate, like in Karabakh or Ganja. It is easy to deny Azerbaijani connection to many place in Armenia because before 1936 they weren't refer as such, but Tatar, Caucasian Tatar, or simply Turk. So, Turkic people in Yerevan even when you said was not that important and their significance is lower than Persian/Russian/Armenian historical presence in Ganja, still they are important for the city's history itself. It was not until the first decades of 20th CE when Armenian formed majority again in Yerevan. But clearly, I get it from what you said. Yerevan is the capital of Armennia and it will be shameful for nation as old and civilized like Armenia to have even slightest mentioned of Azerbaijani (in form of their version of article's name), which is younger than cocacola. But, it is fine for Ganja, because it is not Baku and only a regional city. So, the conclusion is, I will add Azerbaijani name to the lede of regional city, both in Karabakh and Armenia, which had a significant presence of Azerbaijani (then known as Tatar, Caucasian Tatar, or Turkey). It is justified by looking at Armenian name present in the lede of Lake Urmia. Thank you. I hope you understand that English is not my first language and I also want to contribute to the English Wikipedia. Mfikriansori (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

So... the Azeri transliteration should be added to Yerevan because it was apparently populated by Turks for a decade, a city which has existed since at least 200 BC..? Also, you can't just make your own conclusions. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, why not? We have Armenian name for Lake Urmia, eventhough Armenian presence now is little to minimum, and all they have is history. It is apparently make Azerbaijani seems doesn't have history at all. You also can't make your own. Mfikriansori (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're gonna have a very hard time convincing others with that logic. Not sure how I made any conclusion, I literally just asked you a question. Kindly read WP:CONSENSUS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Unclear in population 2601:243:300:FEE0:7860:E751:9903:8AD8 (talk) 17:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)