Talk:Finney High School

Establishment date

The high school was established (but not built) in 1961. The high school was obviously not established in 1928.

"[T]he East Side school, ... is in its 14th year of existence." "[A]thletic director Jack Ramm. "When the school was opened, Dr. Samuel Brownell [1956-1966] ... [was] superintendent of schools ..."

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/98208513/ http://michigan-football.com/f/dtfinney.htm

There was certainly a school building there in 1928. But how do we know that from 1928 -1961 this school was a high school rather than an elementary school? Why would a gymnasium be needed for a football team? Even if the 1961 gymnasium was needed to have a football team, why would the football team not begin playing until 1963? The cited spreadsheet refers to "Finney (elementary?) School" rather than Finney High School.

unsigned comment by ‎2601:205:101:5952:c5cb:2137:531c:1d25 (talk)‎ 01:19, 19 July 2017

Thanks for posting sources. That makes changes (like 1928 to 1961) easier to accept. Except, those two articles are speaking about the gymnasium being built, followed by sport scores (which you can't have without a gymnasium). They do not address the school.

And the year of the gymnasium opening in 1961 corresponds with this spread sheet, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UXWpuk5offwJO7Km5e5LHWxphtUVrZcs-HoiRwTJjqQ/edit#gid=1773167960 , saying that there was money alloted for an addition in 1956.

And then there is this one, https://detroit.curbed.com/maps/bankrupt-and-shrinking-detroit-selling-79-abandoned-schools, saying the school was built in 1927. And this forum (not a reliable source) quoting a story about the building, http://hotfudgedetroit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1678&start=60 , saying it was build in 1928. Kellymoat (talk) 02:42, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

There was certainly a school building there in 1928. But how do we know that from 1928 -1961 this school was a high school rather than an elementary school? Why would a gymnasium be needed for a football team? Even if the 1961 gymnasium was needed to have a football team, but would the football team not begin playing until 1963? I cannot seem to find any sources which address this.

"Finney started as a grade school (the gabled portion) long before it was expanded into a high school back in the early 1960s." https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?9085-Finney-High-School-demolition

"In 62-63, Finney had an 11th but no 12th grade. I assume that Finney's first seniors graduated in 1964." http://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/130253.html?1226356827 unsigned comment by 2601:205:101:5952:c5cb:2137:531c:1d25 (talk)‎ 19 July 2017

Edit conflict - First, let me point out, there aren't any sources saying it was built in 1961. So, that is a moot point.

Now, the original source, from the creation of the article, has been lost and the archiver points to today's date. So that is really no help. But it seems odd that someone would create an article with a false date, provide a fake source, and no other editor found it.

But also, there are alumni sites that have students listed from prior to 1961. Like the user forum I posted, it is not a reliable source. But certainly starts to make a pre-1961 date seem more possible.

As to the gymnasium/football question - I could speculate, but I won't. But it does make sense that a school just getting involved with sports may not have a program in place the first year a facility is built. It's very common. Kellymoat (talk) 04:36, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, that is certainly a possibility. But if that is the case, the school was built in , let's say, 1928. And it became a high school. So the article sentence is not wrong, it just needs modified. But, again, being user forums, not reliable.Kellymoat (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I am not going to continue to sign and reorder your posts. Nor will I respond to a disorganized discussion. Please learn how to post.Kellymoat (talk) 04:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Kellymoat, and IP user. atdetroit.net, detroityes.com, hotfudge.com, Detroit.curbed.com, Michigan-football.com and most certainly some unattributed random document form someone's google drive would not be considered reliable sources. Have not looked any further at this dispute becasue, as Kelly noted, it is extremely hard to follow. IP, please sign your posts. Further, I just removed a large swath of stuff about a former administrator here, as it was almost 100% about her, not the school, and very poorly sourced for negative BLP information. Would you guys be willing to summarize for me what is going on here? Thanks! John from Idegon (talk) 05:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

It all boils down to the "history" section. The school was established ---- when?

It has said 1928 since the article was written. And there is a source that is now a dead link. The other day, someone came and changed it to 1961. They provided no source. I reverted it. Today, they came back with a source saying the gymnasium was built in 1961 and the football team started in 1963, and they tried to use that to say that, again, the high school started in 1961.

I reverted it back. And I added a couple other less-than stellar sources with the 1928 date.

And that brings us to the talk page.

I don't care one way or the other what the right information is, I just want it to be the right information. Not some random change of information. I mean, a date isn't really something that should need a consensus. It's either the right date or it's not.

But it seems as if (based on what the IP editor is posting) the building may have been a school but not a high school. Which is totally possible. If I had better sources, I would post them with the corresponding date. Otherwise, we are left to the user-forums and pdf's.

And that, I believe, pretty much explains it. Kellymoat (talk) 05:45, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Without reliable sources, challenged information is supposed to be removed. Have you attempted to find an archive copy of the original link at Wayback machine or elsewhere? I really do not have time to do any extensive research, but perhaps this book may help. Also, sources do not have to be online. If you are in the Detroit area, perhaps you could visit a library and find something. John from Idegon (talk) 06:06, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Cannot see all of it, but this sure looks like verification that there was a Finney High School in 1928. Didn't have to dig too far at all. Remember Google books. Lots of good stuff there. John from Idegon (talk) 06:10, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

The wayback shows archives available, but they all show as today's paper.Kellymoat (talk) 14:13, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

"sure looks like verification that there was a Finney High School in 1928. Didn't have to dig too far at all." No, the schhol is lated there as "Jared Finney School," which is the way elementary schools are frequently styled.

Closing date

From 2009 to 2012, Finney operated on the site of McNair Middle School. http://detroiturbex.com/content/schools/jackson/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:205:200:62A7:A4C9:9C1D:B683:71A0 (talk) 01:45, 12 February 2018 (UTC)