Talk:2018 North American heat wave

Not encyclopedic

Wikipedia is not a newspaper WP:NOTNEWSPAPER and summers are supposed to be hot. One that is hotter than normal in a certain place is of merely local significance. Global warming is a recent trend for such events to occur throughout the world, but that notable subject already has an article. Jefflayman (talk) 12:35, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

It seems significant enough to not be deleted. The capital of Canada is apparently having their worst combination of heat, humidity and duration ever and dozens of Canadians died from having no access to air conditioning. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

No air conditioning and life-threatening pre-exisiting conditions. Millions of North Americans without AC (and fewer millions with) sweat buckets, but didn't kick buckets. Why should the article focus on the dozens of dead or thousands of (briefly) blacked-out over the tens of millions with regular health and electricity? And like with Los Angeles, why is this not apparently important enough for Ottawa#Climate, but expected to shape readers' understanding of a continent? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:56, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Los Angeles, CA area and Inland Empire locations are suddenly above 110degF as of July 6, 2018. SWP13 (talk) 21:59, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

This is a fun fact, but is not mentioned in Los Angeles#Climate or Inland Empire#Environmental quality. If it's not important enough for local inclusion there, should it reasonably form the basis of an article about the entirety of North America? Still three degrees cooler than it was in 2010 LA, in any case. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:49, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. I wasn't planning on adding info to #Climate section of other article. Takes a lot of effort just to find info to save this article. Typical average July temperature in LA is about 83 degF as mentioned in Climate of Los Angeles. Maybe I'll look into finding good historic weather data links from weather.gov if I wanted to add other regions with heat waves. Cheers! SWP13 (talk) 07:25, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Arizona hardly deserves mention at all. I've been in Phoenix when it was 118F. It was hot, but even then it was not a record. And I was just visiting at the time - I never lived there. 2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D (talk) 01:59, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Los Angeles Power Outage

A better source for Los Angeles power outage is ladwp.com then click on View Current Outage button. The new page has a different link. The best method is to capture it to archive.org. FYI, the CNN article reference on LA power outage is written by someone based in Atlanta, Georgia. Also, to clarify, LADWP serves the city of Los Angeles. SWP13 (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Fuck Gazeteci3124 (talk) 21:44, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

People die in every heat wave

A statement like "At least 70 deaths in Quebec were heat-related" is meaningless unless it is put in some sort of context, such as comparing it with the number of deaths due to hot weather in an average summer heat wave. (It might be 100.) Unless some context is added, I intend to delete such statements. HiLo48 (talk) 22:28, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Plenty of other missing context, too. Like how many is "many" or "most" in statements like "many/most were chronically ill and over 60". Or how much longer (if at all) they were expected to live in lower heat. Did their death certificates list heat as a cause or just a contributing factor? Are coroners more likely to list heat as a factor during a well-publicized heatwave versus during a period of lesser (but no less fatally exacerbating) heat? Do Quebec coroners regularly record (and/or report) more detail than those in neighbouring provinces and states? Once "death in Quebec" became a trending topic, did reporters and editors disproportionately seek follow-up info from that Health Ministry over others?

I think a "yes" to any of these questions is more likely than a "no" to "Did any other old people with failing organs anywhere on the continent die that week when they might have lasted longer with less external stress?" But I'm no expert. Just food for thought. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:36, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

"The main issue facing decision makers is that heat illness is underreported in both Canada and internationally. Although the number of excess deaths due to heat is reported and available in some regions, there is little consistency among this accessible information. Heat illnesses and death in Canada are often recorded as other co-morbidities, such as respiratory or cardiovascular illnesses and, as a result, the exact incidence and prevalence of heat-related illnesses is unknown." InedibleHulk (talk) 04:50, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

That all makes sense. So what use is the statement "At least 70 deaths in Quebec were heat-related"? HiLo48 (talk) 05:35, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

You've been to the deletion discussion, you know it serves as the basis for those who would keep the whole thing. "If it bleeds, it leads", and all that. Scattered internal bleeding isn't as sexy as the concentrated splashy kind, but it's sure the stronger angle to take than "Yay, the power's back on!"

Takes a lot more dead lightbulbs than we have here to screw in a human. Something more akin to when the juice ran loose in the Northeast blackout of 2003. I personally survived that one in two countries and about a dozen major cities. It was assuredly pretty damn unusual everywhere the bus went. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Those Eastern Canadian thunderstorm warnings

Where I live, and it's not even in the tropics, severe thunderstorm warnings and rainfall predictions of up to 50 mm happen several times a year. Unless that claim is put is some sort of context, such as "This has never happened before", the claim is meaningless. HiLo48 (talk) 10:00, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, no context, it's just weather. — JFG ^talk 11:13, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Not even weather, but a forecast. Actual rainfall was about half of that. Totally happened before. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:31, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Summer is hot in Canada again

Does this new wave need a new article, to be treated as a "return" or "aftershock" of the old one or ignored altogether? InedibleHulk (talk) 12:52, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Ignore. The article is rubbish. It's only forecasts (again), and the writer doesn't understand humidex values. (They do not have units). HiLo48 (talk) 22:51, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

You're probably right. The Weather Network says a wind of change is on the way that will plunge the rest of July to near zero. Something about a dome. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:54, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Texas, it's now your turn in this heat wave

[1] this heat wave is about to get bad for us north Texans as we are expected to see temps in between 105-110 for the rest of the week of July 16 to 22, with the high on Friday in Dallas reaching 108, and 107 on Thursday and Saturday according to all the local TV stations. and now heat advisories are in effect until Wednesday July 18 at 7PM CDT (or further notice as it's expected to be extending) as well as a excessive heat watch in effect for Thursday and Friday and could be extended to more counties further east of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.Boutitbenza 69 9 (talk) 03:04, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you really expect article content can be based on forecasts of something that hasn't actually occurred? Especially with the mass media as a source. Sorry, no. HiLo48 (talk) 03:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

it was more of a heads up for the people in charge of editing pages like this to include this current heat wave in Texas, in fact, Dallas got to 108 degrees on Thursday, July 18 and broke that day's high temp record, and now broke the record for July 20 as well with the hight once again at 108 degrees. not to mentioned the excessive heat warning issued in Arkansas, (one county in) Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas for Friday June 20 (as of 11:37 PM CDT, the excessive heat warning is still in effect in far southern Oklahoma, far southwestern Arkansas, Northwestern Louisiana, and most of the northern half of Texas, which goes as far west into west texas, as far east to the Texas/Arkansas line & Texas/Louisiana line, and as far south to deep in the middle of Central Texas, and into the Austin area & the northern half of Southeastern Texas. Boutitbenza 69 9 (talk) 04:43, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Like in other places, it's allegedly a big deal in Dallas, but not a peep to be heard in Dallas#Climate or Climate of Dallas. If nobody's buying it locally, that's a good sign to not bother selling it statewide or cross-continent. Goes for disaster yarns as well as yarn pie. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:27, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

LA 108deg F on July6

Looks like washingtonpost site broke prev link. Same article: Washington Post.com July 6 article Here is a static link that does not change: mesowest.utah.edu for Jul 6, 2018 LA temperature It actually shows July 6, 2018 4:47pm that Los Angeles is 108degF. The hourly table is great. Another source for LA and Santa Ana on July 6 temperature: ktla.com July 6, 2018 article SWP13 (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

UK not mentioned

This heatwave also affects the UK as well, perhaps this article should be renamed and edited to include it. Nibinaear (talk) 23:09, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Maybe. I have also mentally noted that, as is sadly far too common, to the writers of the article so far, North America stops at the Mexican border. HiLo48 (talk) 23:27, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Don't blame Canada for that one. We generally recognize NAFTA and appreciate the reasonably-priced fruit and nuts, but our Canadian content laws do little (some say nothing) to shield us from the harmful rays of mass media and American politics. It's like living in an apartment where you can hear the couple downstairs continuously complaining about "taco night again", "rapists and murderers" and "children in cages". Doesn't matter if you also exchange a twice-daily friendly "hola" with ground-level Joe, eventually the constant ticking under the floorboards is going to drive us all mad. MAD, I TELL YOU!!! But before then, it's bound to make a few of us think just maybe the Joneses are right about how "different" old Joe is, after all.

Knowing there's a problem isn't quite the same as knowing how to deal with it, though. Is there perhaps a lead you could throw this hopelessly stranded article to tow it away from the swirling gooey hole in the middle of the leviathan you people call "Americentrism"? Is it maybe not sunny as ever in "sunny Cancun"? Sunny Acapulco? The vaguely nebulous and omnipresent sunny beaches of Mexico?

Seriously, it's not just the TV networks messing with our minds up here past the forgotten border today. Every potentially notable tidbit Canadian Google News once knew about literal climate, currents, pressure zones and tidal waves has been replaced by SMOKING hot GARBAGE! I don't have to tell you things are bad. "Everybody knows" things are bad. I want you all to get up, open your window and yell "It's a cloudy 22 degrees in the capital tonight, and the humidity makes it feel two degrees cooler!" If that familiar bluster's not enough to prompt a change in attitude toward sensationalistic bullshit and the weather around here, I don't know what is. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:53, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

More to the point at hand, it seems what the UK's getting is the dry sort of heat California and Co. got, and not much like the soupy slop in Quebec and Ontario. If we're splitting this temporal pattern/air mass among any line, that one makes more sense to me than our political boundaries do. Dry and wet can never co-exist in nature, so maybe shouldn't in articles about nature. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

You ARE having a lot of fun, aren't you? But you're right. This article is a perfect example of editors in widely different places all feeling "Jeez, I feel hot!", and wanting a Wikipedia article about it. Not ideal. We didn't write an article when my city reached 46.4°C (115.5°F). We used the significance of the 173 deaths in the bushfires that day to justify one. HiLo48 (talk) 03:55, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Japan just reached its highest temperature on record. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:05, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Sure, if you're only counting foreign sunlight. Earth's own Little Boy warmed the sky to about 6,000 degrees on August 6, 1945. According to Human Shadow Etched in Stone, the ground temperature was a much more tolerable 3,000 to 4,000 (Celsius). Safe to assume it was even hotter three days later, based on Fat Man's terajoules. I get how it might seem like apples and oranges, but The Weather Channel assures me I'm not completely crazy to compare. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:10, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

My slow response. UK not mentioned here.. Ha ha. United Kingdom is in Europe, not in North America. :). Cheers! SWP13 (talk) 23:37, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Mexico

Fixed. -The Gnome (talk) 15:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Once again, the Internet drags us together. And know I finally understand the difference between "ola" and "hola". Gracias, amigo! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:37, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Pleased to finally see Mexico included in North America. But I removed the claim of temps of 60 degrees. Highest temperature recorded on Earth says 56.7 degrees, not in Mexico, and not this year. 60 degrees is male cow manure. HiLo48 (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Definitely smells a bit funny. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:23, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the edit, HiLo48. The temperature of 60 °C (140.0 °F) , given by that source, does seem out of order. The same source, as well as this one, though, give a high of 58 °C (136.4 °F) for Mexicali and Eduardo Neri in 2018. Yet the highest temperature recorded on Earth has been 56.7 °C (134.1 °F). What gives? The last thing I want is to have misleading or false information on a Wikipedia article. -The Gnome (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

"Official" temperatures need to be those verified by a national weather service or similar, and also recorded in controlled conditions, such as in a Stevenson screen. On a hot sunny day it's always possible to sit a thermometer on a hot surface in the sun, and record a quite meaningless temperature. The tabloid media find the latter irresistible. HiLo48 (talk) 06:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

56.7 was also in a sandstorm where the hot grains hit the equipment and made it hotter. The highest reliable temperature in the world not in a sandstorm is 54 Celsius (also at this location). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 06:59, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Fully agree, HiLo48. Even though our sources might be Wikireliable, extra care is required in fields frequented by our friend, sensationalism. -The Gnome (talk) 07:07, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Wild fire should be moved

Hi Wikipedia's, the Wild fire section should be moved to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires. Thanks, SWP13 (talk) 23:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Las Vegas, Nevada hit 113 deg F on Jul 26

On July 26, Las Vegas hit 113 at 3pm local time. It is 111 degF most of the day. See link Meso West SWP13 (talk) 01:05, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Furnace Creek in Death Valley, CA hit 124.3 deg F on Jul 26

on Jul 26, Furnace Creek hit 124.3 deg F at 4pm local time. The record for hottest temperature in the world is here. It was 134 deg F on July 10, 1913. see link Meso West For extreme heat warning alert, forecast 110 deg F see NPS Death Valley

Stay cool! SWP13 (talk) 01:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

A plague of redlinks

Recent edits to the California section and its Wildfires subsection have loaded the article with a mass of redlinks. It's a bad look. I don't know enough about geography and organisations there, so cannot really start to fix the mess, but someone needs to. We should not create new content so clumsily. HiLo48 (talk) 08:29, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

>I cleaned 2 red links. Recommend moving or deleting wild fire section. Not sure it belongs here. Stay cool! SWP13 (talk) 20:56, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Hermosillo, Mexico hit 117 deg F on July 5

On July 5, 2018, Hermosillo in Sonora, Mexico hit 117 deg F at 4:41pm. On July 23, 2018, it hit 116 deg F at 4:41pm. See link Hermosillo July 2018 Keeping a link in case those newspaper link disappear. SWP13 (talk) 11:02, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

So what? Temperatures alone mean nothing. To be significant, they need to be compared with long term records. It might always be hot there. (And they need to come from very reliable sources.) HiLo48 (talk) 11:21, 28 July 2018 (UTC)