Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's sport/Ice hockey task force

Archives (Index)

2020/May 2020/June 2020/July 2020/August 2020/September 2020/October 2022/August

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Initiatives and goals

Selecting topics for monthly/quarterly shared goals is a great idea, many thanks to both Hmlarson and PMCH2 for your suggestions. I’m interested in the potential of an annual schedule with multi-month initiatives and monthly foci, which could be edited as time goes on. A draft follows:

Each month has three categories: IIHF top-10 country, league, and region.

• IIHF top-10 country is the broadest category – national teams, players from or who have played a significant portion of their career in the country, key figures, leagues, tournaments. By designating a country-specific focus, the hope is that we will be able to recruit help from and collaborate with national WikiProjects.

• The next category, league, narrows the focus to one or two leagues, ie. the league’s main article and league season, award, and team pages.

• Regions are related to the top-10 and they are meant to improve the breadth of our coverage of international ice hockey through “Women's ice hockey in XYZ” and national team articles (for countries with little-to-no coverage on English Wikipedia) and article updates and cleanup (for those that have existing infrastructure). IIHF member nations that fall within a region’s scope are listed along with their IIHF women’s world ranking (if they have one), . Many countries fall within several region designations and are listed in multiple months. It’s not ideal but we can work it out in revisions.

• For each of the ten months with a top-10 country, I tried to select the domestic league in which a significant number of national team members play and the region is geographically proximal, with cultural, linguistic, or political ties used to refine in some instances.

Months are grouped by threes and given multi-month initiatives, all of which have themes that overlap with other WikiProjects.

Annual and multi-annual international tournaments and competitions administered by the IIHF are listed by the months they are typically scheduled.

The draft is very rough but I hope it wilL serve as a framework upon which to build consensus.

I like the structured approach, but I am concerned that there are a lot of pages out of date for all these leagues, so by the time we get to some of the later projects, they will be even more out of date. In particular, I would like to see all the NCAA Division 1 women's ice hockey teams updated before the new season starts in October. That's a tall order, but I think if we want to increase visibility for the sport and reflect its growing support, we need well written current articles. I am willing to work on this in the next two months, so I added it to our Sept North America focus. Do we have a place to note outcomes? PMCH2 (talk) 13:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

August–October

Initiative: diversity in women's ice hockey (BIPoC, LGBT+ players, para-athletes, etc.)
Events: Women's Euro Hockey Tour (first tournament), annual in August

• August
  • IIHF top-10 country: France (10)
  • league: France women's ice hockey league (FFHG Féminin Élite)
  • region: Western & Southern Europe → Belgium (36), France (10), Great Britain (23), Italy (17), Ireland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands (18), Spain (25)
    • associate IIHF members: Andorra, Portugal

• September
  • IIHF top-10 country: United States (1)
  • league: National Women's Hockey League (NWHL; 2015–)
  • league 2: 2019–20 NCAA Division I women's ice hockey season
  • region: Americas → Canada (2), Mexico (26), United States (1)
    • associate IIHF members: Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Jamaica
    • affiliate IIHF member: Chile (inline only)

• October
  • IIHF top-10 country: Russia (4)
  • league: Women's Hockey League (ZhHL)
  • regions: Eastern & Southeastern Europe → Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belarus, Bulgaria (38), Romania (34), Russia (4), Serbia, Turkey (27), Ukraine (39)
    • associate IIHF members: Greece, Moldova, North Macedonia

November–January

Initiative: collegiate/university leagues and tournaments
Events: 4 Nations Cup, annual in November; IIHF World Women's U18 Championships (Top Division, Division IA & IB, Division IIA & IIB), annual in December/January (next in 2021); Women's Euro Hockey Tour (second tournament), annual in December; Winter Universiade, biennial (next in January 2021); Women's Euro Hockey Tour (third tournament), annual in January

• November
  • IIHF Top-10 Country: Finland (3)
  • league: Naisten Liiga
  • region: Finland & Northeast Central Europe → Estonia, Finland (3), Latvia (22), Lithuania (40), Poland (20)

• December
  • IIHF Top-10 Country: Sweden (9)
  • league(s): Swedish Women's Hockey League (SDHL)
  • region: Scandinavia/Northern Europe → Denmark (11), Finland (3), Iceland (31), Norway (13), Sweden (9)

• January
  • IIHF top-10 country: Germany (8)
  • leagues: German women's ice hockey Bundesliga (DFEL), European Women's Hockey League (EWHL) & EWHL Super Cup
  • countries: EWHL & EWHL Super Cup all-time participants → Austria (14), Croatia (35), Czech Republic (7), Germany (8), Hungary (12), Italy (17), Kazakhstan (21), Poland (20), Slovakia (15), Slovenia (24)

February–April

Initiative: World Women's Championship / Olympic Games
Events: Winter Olympics, every four years in February (next in 2022); Women's Euro Hockey Tour (final tournament), annual in February; IIHF Women's World Championship (Top Division, Division IA & IB, Division IIA & IIB, Division III), annual in March/April (next in 2021); IIHF Women's Challenge Cup of Asia (Top Division, Division I), annual in March

• February
  • IIHF top-10 country: Czech Republic (7)
  • league: Czech Women's Extraliga (cs:Extraliga ženského hokeje; English page needs to be created)
  • region: Southeast Central Europe → Croatia (35), Czech Republic (7), Hungary (12), Slovakia (15), Slovenia (24)

• March
  • IIHF Top-10 country: Switzerland (5)
  • league: Switzerland women's ice hockey league (SWHL A)
  • region: West Central Europe → Austria (14), Germany (8), Italy (17), Luxemburg, Switzerland (5)
    • associate IIHF members: Liechtenstein

• April
  • IIHF Top-10 Country: Canada (2)
  • league(s): former North American leagues (CWHL, 2007–2019; National Women's Hockey League, 1999–2007; Western Women's Hockey League, 2004–2011; etc.)
  • region: Commonwealth of Nations → Australia (29), Canada (2), Great Britain (23), India, Malaysia, New Zealand (32), South Africa (37)
    • associate IIHF members: Jamaica, Singapore

May–July

Initiative: non-traditional, emerging, or under-represented markets
Events:

• May
  • IIHF top-10 country: Japan (6)
  • league: Japanese Women's Ice Hockey League (ja:国際アイスホッケー連盟; page needs to be created in English)
  • region: East Asia → China (19), DRP Korea (28), Hong Kong (33), Japan (6), Korea (16), Mongolia, Taiwan (30)
    • associate IIHF member: Macau

• June
  • initiative: non-traditional, emerging, or under-represented markets
  • regions:
    West Asia & North Africa → Azerbaijan, Georgia, Israel, Kuwait, Qatar, Turkey (27), United Arab Emirates (UAE)
    Central Asia → Kazakhstan (21), Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan
    South & Southeast Asia → India, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand
    • associate IIHF members: Algeria, Armenia, Indonesia, Iran, Lebanon, Morocco, Nepal, Oman, Singapore, Uzbekistan

• July
  • initiative: non-traditional, emerging, or under-represented markets
  • regions:
    Oceania → Australia, New Zealand,
    South America
    Sub-Saharan Africa → South Africa
    • associate IIHF members: Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Jamaica
    • former IIHF members: Namibia

The idea is to send out a monthly update to task force members and other WikiProjects that might be interested in the month’s topics.

– Spitzmauskc (talk) 05:15, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Articles up for deletion, August 2020

The Morgan Beikirch article has been nominated for deletion. I’m of two minds regarding deletion, it’s true that her post-collegiate career included just three games in the NWHL but her name is listed on the Isobel Cup as a member of the 2017 champion team. As it stands, the article arguably doesn’t quite meet WP:GNG. Would anyone be willing to take a look and contribute to the discussion? @Bill McKenna: @Hmlarson: @NHCLS: @PMCH2: @Summrsun16: – Spitzmauskc (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this is tough. There are good arguments for a delete, but I'm going to say keep because she is noteworthy, even though she doesn't definitively meet the criteria. Bill McKenna (talk) 22:08, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• Women hockey players don't get the same exposure in press; seems that playing for the highest level of hockey in the USA, and being part of a championship team, should be considered notable. I will say so on the discussion. Probably won't help, but I will chime in. PMCH2 (talk) 18:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Bill McKenna: Be sure to leave a comment on the AfD discussion page – my apologies for not linking in the original post! – Spitzmauskc (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

• I am a little biased here, because women's hockey players who play in a professional league I think should be considered notable, despite the troubling fact that Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Ice hockey eliminates women entirely from the notability discussion. However, if she were a man and the NWHL were the NHL, she'd meet notability criteria (since she played one or more games in a preeminent professional league). Again, I'm a little biased, but let me know if I should mention this on the actual AfD Discussion page. – Summrsun16 (talk) 18:18, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Including ball hockey in the task force’s scope?

I stumbled across the Ball Hockey World Championship while cleaning up the Saroya Tinker bio and realized that women’s ball hockey is played pretty seriously in several countries, including Canada, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic (Czechia has a national level women’s league!). Looking over the WikiProject tags for a bunch of women’s ball hockey pages, it seems like ball hockey isn’t currently included in the scope of any single WikiProject. Given the significant overlap between ball hockey and ice hockey, I think it would make sense to include ball hockey articles within the scope of WHOCKEY. What do the other task force members think? – Spitzmauskc (talk) 19:30, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• I would support it, but not sure how much I could contribute to editing in that space. -PMCH2 (talk) 13:31, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
• Support. Hmlarson (talk) 00:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
• I'd be willing to support it if there isn't already a specific task force for it, especially because of the overlap, but like PMCH2, I'm not sure I'd be able to contribute much. NHCLS (talk) 12:28, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• Thank you all for your responses! In light of your feedback – general support but unfamiliarity with the topic – I created a Sister Sports initiative that includes all of the ice hockey-adjacent sports that could reasonably be supported by the task force (ball/street hockey, bandy, broomball, floorball, inline hockey, ringette, rink bandy, roller hockey, and underwater hockey). The primary focus of the task force remains women's ice hockey but now a place exists for those interested in the other sports to collaborate. – Spitzmauskc (talk) 15:52, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

NCAA Division I Team pages

Many of you may be aware that I had created a number of NCAA Div I team pages for individual seasons. While I recently added more content to add some CHA seasons, I have largely stopped my efforts. The reason for my halt is that I unknowingly created a little controversy about notability. Forinstance the page 2014–15 Quinnipiac Bobcats women's ice hockey season has been tagged for notability, as well as many other pages. Now I am questioning my effort. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, and I had felt that my pages added value especially to women's hockey. I have to concede nontheless, that there is a very high bar for hockey notability, and one can reasonably conclude that my pages fall a little short, even while I maintain that they add value to Wikipedia. Now, for your consideration I'd ask you:

• Was my work beneficial?
• Do they meet notability guidelines as currently construed?
• Are the notabilty standards out of sync with other sports?
• Is there a bias that that keeps women's hockey at an unfairly high bar? If so, what is the remedy?
• Should I invest more effort in creating pages?
• Is it possible that tagging the pages for notability is trolling? To be fair, I feel that the tags are well intended, but I am perhaps naive.

Please note that I am NOT asking whether the current pages be removed. I feel quite strongly that they merit inclusion in Wikipedia now that they are there. I am only asking about future page creation.

Thanks so much. Please comment. Polite negative answers are welcome.

Kindest regards, Bill McKenna (talk) 02:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know that this a men's vs women's issue. Generally in the past for many sports it is often said that individual team season pages shouldn't be created for anything below the highest level of the sport. Granted this is definitely not strictly enforced as there are season pages for teams in many levels but speaking for hockey specifically the hockey project generally says you shouldn't create team season pages below the NHL level (or I would assume the NWHL for example), however, we don't tend to try and delete them unless they are a complete mess and empty. We generally have taken the stance of if you want to waste your time you can. That being said you have to be very careful to not bump up against only having stat results on the page and a single sentence that says its a season article in the lead. Doing that often attracts deletion requests with the reason being WP:NOTSTATS. My suggestion would be if you want to keep creating make sure you do a few paragraphs talking about the season. But like any other subject you do have to meet WP:GNG and have sources talking specifically about the season itself which can be tricky as it is easy to find articles talking about a single game but harder to find one talking about the season as a whole. Taking a look at WP:NSEASONS might help you decide if you want to continue as well, a particularly important line in it is Team season articles should consist mainly of well-sourced prose, not just statistics and lists of players. Wikipedia is not a stats directory. It is strongly recommended that such articles be redirected to the team page if no sourced prose can be created.. -DJSasso (talk) 18:14, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

As a general rule, I'm in favour of including the broadest range of articles possible and I'm always a little wary of notability guidelines being overused to delete pages - I fall pretty strongly on the inclusionism side of the debate on Deletionism and inclusionism in Wikipedia, and I would assume the people tagging the pages for notability fall more towards the other side (and are not trolls). And, yeah, I do think there is a bias that keeps women's hockey out an unfairly high degree, but I'm not sure to which extent that bias is specific to Wikipedia and how much of it is due to everything else in society, and I'm even less sure what the best ways to counter it are - but I would believe that improving Wikipedia's coverage of the sport could be one way, and so your work is definitely beneficial. And I would like to second Djsasso's suggestion of adding a few paragraphs talking about the season - if you can find multiple sources covering the events and highlights and controversies and what not of the seasons, you'll be able to absolutely guarantee that the pages meet notability guidelines. If that makes sense? NHCLS (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

First of all, let me say "thank you", Bill, for your hard work. I have seen your efforts on women's college hockey, and it's much appreciated. There are very few editors working in this space and your contributions are helpful, and meaningful. I will also say that there is a tremendous amount work to be done to keep team pages up to date, and update and add pages for coaches and players. I personally have updated Hockey East and ECAC team pages this fall but there is still more to do. Awards, tournaments, the history of the college game - all these need updating. There's a backlog. Where individual season pages would be most helpful would be for championship seasons. If you love doing those pages, you could go deeper. But I would love some help on other tasks if you wanted to switch focus for a bit. PMCH2 (talk) 01:36, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Division I college hockey coaches

I have updated the list of college women's ice hockey coaches with 250 wins. There are 9 coaches with over 400 wins, but only 4 of them have pages. I was thinking maybe we could work on adding bios for the other 5 during the next few months, while college hockey is a focus. They are all men, so it should be easier to get them approved. I will write a page for Bill Mandigo who tops the list. If anyone is willing to help, maybe you can post here the page you want to work on. Thanks! PMCH2 (talk) 13:13, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Great idea and thanks for bring it up! Not necessarily something I’m super familiar with but I’ll see if I can help. – Spitzmauskc (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Russian Women's Hockey League page move

Hello all! I’ve raised a discussion at Talk:Russian Women's Hockey League about moving the Russian Women's Hockey League article to a more accurate namespace, either Women's Hockey League or Zhenskaya Hockey League. Input from the task force would be very helpful. Thanks! – Spitzmauskc (talk) 00:00, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Help on Draft:Collapse of the Canadian Women's Hockey League

Hi all, I've been working on creating a draft article for the collapse of the CWHL as it's been a major event in women's hockey with impact that's still developping. The first AfC submission of the draft, however, got declined for insufficient content. I've been working on it some more, and I've added a few things, but I'm really not an expert, so if anyone wants to lend a hand and help build the draft up, you'd be more than welcome! Thank you so much! Cheers, NHCLS (talk) 12:31, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Photos in Women's Hockey Wikipedia

Good evening folks, there's just something relatively minor that I'd be interested in hearing some opinions on - I feel like there's a lot of women's hockey articles right now which either don't have photos or have photos that at 5+ years old. Is this something worth keeping an eye on for future task force projects? Cheers, NHCLS (talk) 22:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Articles up for deletion, January 2021

The Becca Gilmore article has been nominated for deletion. Would anyone be willing to take a look and contribute to the discussion/help address the issues with the page?

Help with section transclusion?

Last night, I added a set of

<section>

tags around 2022–23 PHF season#Standings, with an eye towards using {{#section}} to include that section of the page in, for example 2022–23 Minnesota Whitecaps season. However,

Pos	Team	Pld	W	OTW	OTL	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Boston Pride	24	15	4	1	4	92	52	+40	54	Playoffs
2	Toronto Six	24	15	2	2	5	87	62	+25	51
3	Connecticut Whale	24	13	1	2	8	83	66	+17	43
4	Minnesota Whitecaps	24	10	0	3	11	58	66	−8	33
5	Metropolitan Riveters	24	8	3	0	13	64	79	−15	30
6	Montreal Force	24	5	3	2	14	56	70	−14	23
7	Buffalo Beauts	24	5	0	3	16	50	95	−45	18

Updated to match(es) played on March 5, 2023. Source: PHF

Notes

isn't transcluding that section of the PHF season page into the Whitecaps season page.

Something similar is accomplished on 2022–23 Minnesota Golden Gophers women's ice hockey season by having the standings be a template (which additionally allows for highlighting of a specific team.)

So...What's the right direction here? Should the standings be turned into a template? Is there something wrong with my {{#section}} code? MikeVitale 14:00, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @MikeVitale:! Super sorry about the excessive delay in responding, I didn't see your querry until now. I hope you were able to find more timely answers but, just in case, the easiest way I've found to manage standings and other sections that appear on multiple pages and need regular updates is to create a template. When the template is no longer being updated, for example at the end of the season, you can copy/paste the template code to each page where it is being used and then delete the template page, since it won't be useful as a template any longer. Cheers, Spitzmauskc (talk) 20:52, 16 July 2023 (UTC)