Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about counties/2023 Reword sandbox

If you want to comment on part of the new proposed guidelines, pick a topic to post on that you want to comment on.

Lieutenancies

Here is a discussion for lieutenancies. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:16, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the history section in these?

Plus some (particularly those outside England) also use {{Infobox former subdivision}} rather than {{Infobox settlement}}, so can that be added as an alternative, especially for lieutenancy areas with very little modern use and were much more used in the past. Dank Jae 16:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add devolved representation. Dank Jae 16:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don’t uses [sic] flags or coat of arms as these don’t represent all areas of the article, this is probably quite controversial for now. Just highlighting. Dank Jae 16:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lieutenancy areas are the agreed primary areas of reference on Wikipedia this a new sentence or backed up by existing policy? AFAIAA, this does not apply to Wales by experience. Dank Jae 16:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Historic

Here is an area for historic areas. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Historic areas of what? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Eng and Wales call them historic counties, Scotland shires and NI counties so historic areas; could change it if you so wish. Chocolateediter (talk) 12:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The current guidelines split the historic counties by England, Scotland and Wales. Were all three very similar?

The current guidelines also clearly omit Northern Ireland, so is re-adding them indirectly controversial? Not checked the archives it could've been explained there somewhere, may be it has to do with consistency with the other 26 counties in Ireland which are under WP:IRELAND, which may need consulting? Dank Jae 16:28, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant

Here is an area for former and somewhat irrelevant areas. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Authorities

Here is an area for authority areas that can have county names, so may as well cover combined authority areas and similar to that. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:20, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if National parks should be here, they’re no where near a county? Dank Jae 23:57, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well it is the closest how to, they seems to be a lack of how to cover geographic areas for a project called UK geography. The natural “territorial geographies” how to seems to give more district and administrative advice when they is a “district” how to which could take all that on. If that gets fixed, it could go there but I just decided to chuck it in with combined authorities since it has an authority that isn’t a council, both have some powers and tend to run tourism. Chocolateediter (talk) 10:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As this is a re-write (well more of a replacement) of UKCOUNTIES, maybe set up another proposal (How to write about areas) for regions and geographic areas. What is obvious is that national parks should use the {{Infobox protected area}} not {{Infobox settlement}}, and styled based on the needs of national parks, not among these "authorities" each with different characteristics. Best do these separately than group them together. National park authorities are organisations so should be treated as an organisation.

Having no guidelines is better than overly restrictive guidelines across a wide array of different articles. Merseytravel is nothing like Cairngorms National Park, and expanding Merseytravel under these proposals would be a duplication of Liverpool City Region for no reason. Dank Jae 11:28, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removed national parks and made it clearer that PTE areas are only covered in transport. Chocolateediter (talk) 12:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, so that leaves basically the "city regions"? (better term than "Authorities"?) Greater London is a ceremonial county/region, while the GLA obviously should be worded like a government.

Although there may need to be a wider discussion on city regions in general, some disputed their existence at UKGEO, while on a MERGEREQ in Wales, it was suggested to merge a city region with the conterminous general region. So for now maybe add the sentence, if a combined authority area, city region or regional economic area (in Wales) is deemed notable and distinct enough from areas of the same name or areas that cover the same area, they may follow the guidance below? Dank Jae 15:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additions

For adding guidance. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:21, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can the NOTES in the existing guideline be re-added, unless you intended to rewrite them? I believe they're helpful or mention some good points. Dank Jae 16:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other

@Esemgee, DankJae, Roger 8 Roger, Mertbiol, and Murgatroyd49: here is a talk for everybody who wants to comment about specific parts of the proposed guidelines. Chocolateediter (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could you define what you are trying to do first? What are we meant to do? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 00:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your meant to comment on parts of the proposed guidelines on what you would like changing for each topic then others can agree or disagree on them. I don’t want a long and hard to navigate discussion. It can be as simple as a spelling correction. Chocolateediter (talk) 10:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since it is in a group sandbox now you can do spelling corrections yourself. Chocolateediter (talk) 10:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noted thanks! Dank Jae 23:58, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment at the top. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 04:16, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chocs, you should put here at the top what the guidelines currently say so others can see them and comment accordingly. Otherwise nobody knows what to do. I suggest telling people to write into your predetermined categories is causing more confusion. If this page is a continuation of discussions on other pages you should start again by laying the ground work here and repeating what has been said before, otherwise an editor finding this page won't know what is happening. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:52, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that it is difficult to make a comparison between the two to see what was added, removed and changed already prior to this. Trying to engage here for the most obvious things to me, but still quite a lot of changes. Seems this is to make a draft new guideline to replace the existing one? Dank Jae 16:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]