Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Archives/2008/March

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:WikiProject Puerto Rico. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Ethnicity vs Nationality in the lead sentence

Good day folks. I am trying to correct biographies in the regards to ethnicity in the lead sentence per WP:MOSBIO. I am sure this has been discussed before. Is there a certain consensus that has formed? Can people please look at my edits and advise. It seems that persons born in the United States should be considered Americans? Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 15:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, some of us have looked at your well intentioned edits, however I must point out that "Puerto Rican" is not "ethnicity" as the term 'Hispanic' would be. Puerto Rican is a nationality which is determined by the nationality of one's descent (parents). Birthright citizenship is the term used for Jus soli as it is applied under US law. Therefore, there is nothing wrong in stating in a person's article that said person is an "American" of "Puerto Rican" descent.

People born in Puerto Rico automatically have dual nationality: Puerto Rican and American. Puerto Rico follows the Jus soli law (the right of the soil or the land) meaning that one’s nationality is determined by the place of one's birth.

History of Puerto Rican Nationality

On October 25, 2006, the Puerto Rican State Department declared the existence of the Puerto Rican nationality (see: Juan Mari Bras). Puerto Rican nationality was recognized in 1898 after Spain ceded the island to the United States as a result of the Spanish-American War. In 1917, the United States granted Puerto Ricans U.S. citizenship without the requirement that the islanders renounce their PR citizenship. Since then, everyone born in Puerto Rico are both Puerto Ricans and U.S. citizens. There is no need to renounce since Puerto Ricans do not need a passport to go to the mainland and have the same rights and can participate in every activity as U.S. citizens.^[1]^[2]

There is a common misconception that all Puerto Ricans are of Hispanic background. The confusion stems from people automatically associating the term 'Puerto Rican' (nationality) with the term 'Hispanic' (ethnicity). Even though the primary ethnicity in Puerto Rico is Hispanic,^[3] there are numerous other ethnic groups which make up the Puerto Rican nationality. There are many Puerto Ricans of African, Corsican, French, Irish, German, Chinese, Dutch and Lebanese descent, among others.^[4]

Laws Concerning Citizenship/Nationality

The modern world is divided up into nations with each nation, at least nominally, exercising control over its own territory and the people who reside within that territory. Among modern nations, citizenship at birth is conveyed in one of two ways; either though Jus soli (the right of the soil or the land) meaning that one’s nationality is determined by the place of one's birth; or through jus sanguinis (the right of blood) where nationality is determined by the nationality of one's descent (parents). Birthright citizenship is the term used for Jus soli as it is applied under US law. ^[5]

Tony the Marine (talk) 17:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Tony, thanks for the explaination. I will try to digest this as best as possible. Just to make sure I understand, Puerto Rican is a nationality. If you are born there, you automatically have duel nationality with the US. If you are born in say Ohio and your parents are Puerto Rican, ie born there, do you automaically have Puerto Rican nationality? I am trying to understand where nationality is determined by the nationality of one's descent (parents) Per MOSBIO, if people have duel nationality, that should be mentioned in the lead. If they have only one nationality, that nationality should be mentioned in the lead and origin of descent should be listed under family section, ect it seems.--70.109.223.188 (talk) 18:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In my humble opinion, I think that the best way to avoid any misunderstandings in a header of a Puerto Rican born in the U.S. (mainland) could be to post an "American" of "Puerto Rican" descent. For others interested in the issue, I would like to add that the term "Puerto Rican-American" would be inappropriate since such a term would seem more like an "ethnicity". Tony the Marine (talk) 19:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, now my head is going to explode :) I guess it boils down to what makes one a "true" Puerto Rican. If the person is "truely" Puerto Rican, then that should be in the lead. If the person is say a 1/4 Puerto Rican, ect, that should be mentioned under family section as being of Puerto Rican descent. Not trying to be a dick, just trying to nail this down abit. Thanks again, --70.109.223.188 (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

If that person is born in the US (to put a example) as a matter of chance to Puerto Rican parents and has been living in Puerto Rico his entire life he should be classified as Puerto Rican, however if a person was born and raised in the US (or any other country) and only a fraction of his lineage is Puerto Rican then we should use "[country's nationality] of Puerto Rican" descent. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree with "Caribbean H.Q.". I think he nailed it in the head and there is no more need for heads to explode (smile). Tony the Marine (talk) 20:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

More userboxes

Just to let you know that I created some userboxes related to Puerto Rico for the purpose of using them myself but I also posted them on WikiProject Puerto Rico templates so that y'all can use them as well. These are the ones I added:

Code

Result

|{{User:Mistman123/Userboxes/Wikiproject Puerto Rico}}