Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Archive 9

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 5

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Archive 7

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Occupy London

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Occupy London#Initial statement. -- Trevj (talk) 00:11, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Superior Electoral Court

Do you guys agree that the article on the Superior Electoral Court should be included within the scope of WikiProject Politics? The Constitution of Brazil is and the Court is important within the election process of Brazil, which has the highest number of voters in the Western Hemisphere. The article hasn't been created by me, but I've uploaded it with references and concepts that were missing. Anyway, I also think it should be revised by someone within the Project. Jgsodre (talk) 14 December 2011 —Preceding undated comment added 16:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC).

New stub article on Experimental political science - please take a look at and expand!

Hi. I've created a new stub article on Experimental political science; please take a look at, comment on, correct any errors, and expand! Thanks... Allens (talk) 13:22, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Dynamic IP edit warring advisory

The IP editor 92.7.x.x has been repeatedly blocked, including yesterday and today, for edit warring in articles related to British and world politics. He is an insistent revert warrior. Please keep an eye out for further dynamic IPs in the general range making non-mainstream edits and quickly restoring them after being reverted. Here is a list of IPs that have been used by the editor:

Here's a list of articles that interest this IP editor:

Let's keep these articles as neutral as possible, with a broad scope in sourcing. Binksternet (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Asking for help

On the Wikipedia page Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Croatia#Information it takes a while exhausting debate on the writing and writing at all of minority languages in articles about settlements in Croatia. Please if you have time, look at the page and try to help us in forming some kind of agreement. We will highly appreciate your effort.--MirkoS18 (talk) 23:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I need some help

I just joined this Wikiproject. When I added my name, there was a table of things stuck in my interests section. How do I get rid of it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ST98 (talk • contribs) 05:11, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. When adding your name, the closing tag |} was overwritten. This basically put all the text after it into one cell. I fixed it, but be sure to pay attention to the wiki formatting. Look through the edit history to see how others have done it. Thank you for your interest in this project. :) -- JoannaSerah (talk) 05:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Merger with Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger was approved. --Klein zach 02:31, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone put a merge banner on Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture on 25 Sept, but never put a corresponding one here. I've now done that.

Political culture doesn't seem to be active, but it has an interesting structure of taskforces for Oligarchy, Corporatism, Liberalism, and Fascism. Could, and should, this structure be moved over here? ~~P.S. This page has 79 discussions dating back to december. Anybody mind if I start archiving them?~~ Done--Klein zach 04:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture was apparently created on 8 September 2011. AFAIK it was never proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals. It has two members. --Klein zach 01:54, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

(refactored from WT:POLC) There has been a proposal by an editor, and that is the extent of the discussion so far. This project is a new one, and it is not fully developed yet. I was predicting that at some time in the future the politics and political culture projects would be combined with task forces (similar to philosophy, and military history projects) however I thought it would be at least a year before that would come. I would recommend that we complete the incorporation of task forces and then see where we are at in terms of activity.Greg Bard (talk) 05:41, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that this project should eventually be absorbed into Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture? --Klein zach 02:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I have no proposal of that sort at all -yet. I am thinking that we should wait about a year and revisit that idea. The proposal is to make a task force out of Anarchism and Socialism under Political culture. I think this will help resolve some issues in the philosophy department, and help the Anarchism and Socialism articles get more exposure. In the future, if we do decide to do a super-merge of everything into WP:POLITICS, I would suggest that we make additional taskforces for Politicians/Philosophers, Historical Eras, and Regions. A particular article can be placed under more than one Task Force under this scheme.Greg Bard (talk) 03:22, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

And Conservatism? I don't know if you are aware of the controversy about that project? --Klein zach 04:44, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I think in my travels I have seen some discussion, but I am not well versed in the controversy brewing. In my mind, the Conservative and Progressive traditions are traditions within Liberalism (i.e. Conservatives are Classical liberals, and Progressives are Social liberals). A task force structure could deal with those issues just fine. we could totally make them sub-taskforces. The question is in the details i.e. should we consolidate the discussion, or have enclaves of ideology. I think we are better off consolidating, so a consensus is actually meaningful and adds value to the Wikipedia (rather than just provide a home for ideologues to spout more effectively.) Greg Bard (talk) 05:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I have come up with a scheme describing the original proposal along with a scheme that describes a proposal to merge everything into one: User:Gregbard/tf. Greg Bard (talk) 07:21, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm personally not opposed to a future "super merger" of projects (as proposed by Greg), but I do wonder whether there would be any benefit in it? With all these taskforces and sub-taskforces I feel we might be at risk of contracting our editor-collaboration base, with editors being spread too thinly over several sub-taskforces, with a fraction of editors in a single taskforce.

As to this new Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture, I feel it has a strange scope. Its taskforces do not appear to have a coherent connection (except for that of being listed on the article of Political culture, which has several serious issues). It would appear that Anarchism, Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, and to a lesser extent Corporatism, are all political philosophies and would be better served being taskforces of a WikiProject:Political philosophies (with the Conservatism, Libertarianism and a new Green politics WikiProjects). But Oligarchy is more of a power structure or goverment style - also I don't see this taskforce encompassing more than a few articles on the topic itself and some examples of oligarchies. Zangar (talk) 12:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Just to deal with Oligarchy here. I agree that this doesn't really belong. It's also not set up anyway. The talk page is a re-direct to Political culture. I wonder if Greg Bard would agree to take it out of the structure to avoid any misunderstandings about this? --Klein zach 11:07, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Completely disagree. Under what political culture would you place the article Oligarchy for instance. It may be a small worklist of articles, but there isn't anything wrong with that. The idea is to provide a category for every article in one or more political cultures. Oligarchy is a type political culture, so I don't see the problem you are seeing. I don't exactly know what you mean by "not set up" either. In what way is the Oligarchy task force "not set up?" I don't think you understand how things are set up with a large WikiProject like this. The discussion areas of the various cultures redirect to the main discussion space. This is the primary advantage of consolidating the task forces into one project. That is the way it is with all of philosophy: i.e. epistemology discussion area redirects to the philosophy discussion. So too with metaphysics, ethics, etcetera. I would call that scheme a complete success over at WT:PHILO.Greg Bard (talk) 22:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The task-force-ization of these subjects doesn't have the effect of atomizing the efforts of the editors, it has the effect of consolidating the discussion. In this way there are more eyes on the issues that arise. As far as the composition of the Political culture project is concerned, I am a little concerned that you don't see the connections. Every culture is the product of some philosophy. There already is a social and political philosophy task force, however the creation of this political culture project was meant to help organize and make more meaningful the content of that task force. I.e. some articles would be moved from one to the other. The designation of the taskforces including oligarchy is designed so that we are reasonably able to classify EVERY article about politics under some political culture. The presumption that I am making, which you seem to either not realize, don't understand, or understand but disagree with, is that every article about politics can be classified as participating in one of eight cultures i.e. anarchism, oligarchy, corporatism, classical liberalism, social liberalism, democratic socialism, communism, and fascism. So I guess my question to you would be 'do you have a more convenient scheme for capturing all of these articles?' Greg Bard (talk) 18:09, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposal

Please support, oppose or comment on the merger proposal (of Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics).

Support, Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture wasn't proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council and only has two members. After discussing this, it's now clear to me that the project is redundant and its taskforces should also be moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics. --Klein zach 02:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking that we should get the political culture project well formed and established before we merge. I think it would develop better that way. However, if the consensus is to merge now, I will go along with it, but I hope that don't have the effect of just undoing all the work that has been put into it. Please do consider all of the other task forces which may be better off under a unified banner if we merge. I haven't fully fleshed that out and if we move forward, we should start thinking about that now, rather than later. Greg Bard (talk) 21:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Support per Kleinzach. I think believe that the project is pretty useless right now. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 09:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I think it is a little hard to judge since it barely is even started.Greg Bard (talk) 21:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

It was also never proposed or promoted. --Klein zach 02:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Comment, I think we might need to be a little clearer on what is being proposed here. As there seems to have been little consensus to incorporate existing WikiProjects, Anarchism, Liberalism (which was semi-active) and Socialism, into this WikiProject Political culture in the first place. We'd no doubt have to get consensus from them before they can be merged anywhere. Zangar (talk) 09:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the merger proposal (of Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics) could be much clearer. Maybe there is a misunderstanding here? Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Political culture/Liberalism is a redirect to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Political culture which has a notice about the merger proposal. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Political culture/Socialism and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Political culture/Anarchism don't exist yet. (The present Socialism and Anarchism are not affected by this proposal.) --Klein zach 02:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

No problem, I was basically wondering were we taking the view that WP:Socialism and WP:Anarchism were already part of WP:Political culture (as it thinks they are, even if not linked), and therefore bound by consensus here? Thanks for clearing that up. Zangar (talk) 09:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

That's why I was thinking that a "super-merge" would come a little later down the road. However I will go along with whatever the consensus supports.Greg Bard (talk) 21:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Support, as this was a big change that affected quite a few existing projects, without consensus for the initial setup. Although I think that the taskforces of Corporatism and Oligarchy should just be deleted as they appear to be null taskforces and never populated (these could always be constructed again later if their parent project thinks this is wise and would be adequately supported). Zangar (talk) 09:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Support - lets have this topic merged until its a project with many members that merits its own project (thus banners ect..). I not a fan of forced merges of new projects - but I believe being under the scope of the great parent project will get more involed in the long run.Moxy (talk) 04:50, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

obvious support from me, theres alot of overlap abnd it then clutters the talkpages with project banners. I would even consider putting WP Election as a taskforc of politics.Lihaas (talk) 07:26, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Complicated WikiProject merger

It's been decided to merge Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture into Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics, see here. Unfortunately Political culture, even though it only ever had three participants, was set up in a rather complex way with task forces sharing the same talk page as the project itself. Obviously I've had a look at the advice pages about full and selective mergers etc. but I still don't really understand the best way to go about this. I wonder if I could have some help? Thanks. --Klein zach 02:51, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

It actually looks pretty straight-forward, as there is no talk page history. You can just move all of the subpages of one to subpages of the other, maybe move the talk page to a talk archive of the other, and mark whatever pages you don't want as historical. There is so little history there that you shouldn't worry to much about doing it wrong. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 03:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the subpages of one and the other ([1] & [2]) there doesn't seem to be overlap in naming, so just moving them over should be fine. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 03:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, so for example Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture/Article alerts would become Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/Political culture/Article alerts? Is that right? --Klein zach 04:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

In answer to this particular question, the term "political culture" should just disappear and it is just merged with the politics article alerts. If you need any help let me know. If you like I could do some work setting it up myself. Greg Bard (talk) 04:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

That was just an example, but if it is gong to 'disappear' does that mean a redirect? --Klein zach 04:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

It isn't really necessary because most if not all redirects left behind from any moves will eventually be deleted. Greg Bard (talk) 04:21, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

So how does it 'disappear' then? Are you suggesting a different method? --Klein zach 04:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

The easiest thing to do is just as you said, move Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture/Article alerts to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/Political culture/Article alerts, etc., and then the project can mark whatever they don't like as historical. The redirects may get deleted down the line, but that's not much of an issue. The point is don't stress out too much about it, if there are mistakes made or whatever. Worst case scenario is something gets moved and forgotten about, but so what? The stakes here are really low because the pages have so little history. Best case is that the pages are moved and become useful to the combined project. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 04:50, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if you are talking about a merger, it'd be better to move Wikipedia:WikiProject Political culture/Article alerts to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/Article alerts (the immediate subpages are still immediate subpages, I think that's what Greg Bard meant by "disappear"). This makes things less complicated. They won't get in the way if you end up eventually not using them, just don't link to them. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 04:53, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

OK. I've done that. --Klein zach 07:05, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for doing the rest of them! --Klein zach 07:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem! Now we just need to see what templates they were using, and get the project to decide on how to use their new pages. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Also, I noticed a subpage redirect from this project to Wikipedia:WikiProject Political parties. People keep asking questions there and not getting answers, this may be a good time to look at merging that one too. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:31, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. I've proposed the merger. --Klein zach 07:55, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

{{WikiProject Political culture}} can be merged into {{WikiProject Politics}} once you've decide what taskforces to keep, then it can be redirected to the primary template. If you file a bot request at that point, you can have them remove duplicates while keeping the parameters of both. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

My understanding is that only Fascism exists, the others were never activated. --Klein zach 07:57, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Article of interest

I'm not a project member, so I won't tag this myself, but it seems that WP:Politics would be interested in bannering the new article Catholic politicians, abortion and communion or excommunication. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

RfC that members may be interested in

On the Fox News article. [3] SeanNovack (talk) 15:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Featured article review for Federalist 10

I have nominated Federalist No. 10 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Brad (talk) 02:35, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merger: Wikipedia:WikiProject Political parties to Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics

Wikipedia:WikiProject Political parties is inactive (it's only ever been used sporadically) and I've proposed merging it with this project. --Klein zach 07:59, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Support; seems reasonable to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobrayner (talk • contribs)
Support, though i dont know the details of how one merges projects. if you know how to do this, go ahead, makes sense.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

This merger should be much easier than the one above. I'll leave this open until after Xmas to give people more time to look at this. --Klein zach 07:41, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

As there have been no more comments I'll make the merger. --Klein zach 05:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Done --Klein zach 06:14, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Mohamed Bouazizi and the Occupy movement additions in the 2011 article

Thought you all might be interested in taking part in the Request for Comment on this subject atTalk:2011#Request_for_Comment:_Mohamed_Bouazizi_and_the_Occupy_movement_additions. Wrad (talk) 04:10, 4 January 2012 (UTC)