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Error in Wikipedia article on Kim Su-Deok

Greetings. This is my first time participating in the Wikipedia community, so forgive any mistakes or misunderstanding in how to proceed. My wife's father is Jong Soung Kimm, who was born in Seoul in 1935. He is an architect of some renown (e.g., designed the Seoul Hilton). His paternal grandfather was Baron Kim Sa-Jun. His father was the third of three children had by Kim Sa-Jun and his wife. The oldest of these three children was Kim Su-Deok. But, the wikipedia article on Kim Su-Deok mistakenly says that she was the only child of Kim Sa-Jun and Lady Hwang (rather than the oldest of three children). I don't want to edit the page directly, and prefer to leave that to someone who's already active in maintaining the page. I'm happy to connect someone with my father in law, who has many interesting stories about the family. He recalls visiting his aunt (Kim Su-Deok) in the prince's palace, as a child. His father, the 3rd of the three children, started university in London, but returned to Seoul upon his father Kim Sa-Jun's death. After some travel with Prince Yi Kang, and a period in California, he returned again to Seoul. After WW2, he was made president of the Korean Red Cross, roughly 4 decades after his sister's husband Prince Yi Kang had been head of the Korean Red Cross in the early 1900s. Shortly after North Korea invaded Seoul in 1950, he was taken prisoner by the North Koreans, while escorting his then 9-year-old daughter (my father-in-law's sister) to a more-safe farm about 30 miles outside Seoul, and was never seen again. Put another way, Kim Su-Deok's youngest brother (and Kim Sa-Jun's youngest son) was disappeared by the North Koreans. Anyone with an interest in this, reply and let me know how to be in touch. Siegfried Proust (talk) 17:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Interesting, thank you for sharing.
I'm not seeing an article for him in English, is this for the Polish Wikipedia? This WikiProject is for the English Wikipedia on Korea-related topics. I encourage you to post on the talk page on whichever version of the article you're interested in.
For your understanding, generally speaking, on Wikipedia the bare minimum type of source required is a primary source (recorded somewhere, either written in a respectable newspaper or even published by a well-reputed youtube channel). See WP:RELIABLE. Preferred are written tertiary sources, usually either journalistic pieces or peer reviewed publications.
While I believe you're very likely to be correct, a direct interview from one of us is unlikely to be sufficient for inclusion as far as I know. toobigtokale (talk) 21:09, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Although at a quick glance it looks un-cited anyway. You can probably just edit it without citing anything to be honest, as long as you're not adding a lot of information (a paragraph at most). It's not technically encouraged and other people are free to delete your work so just be aware. toobigtokale (talk) 21:14, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
The English-language article on Kim Su-deok is at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Su-deok. I may just edit it directly. I think my father-in-law is as good a source as one can get, as relates to the existence of his father. :) Siegfried Proust (talk) 22:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Uh-uh. Please read about WP:V, WP:SPS and WP:OR. Wikipedia does not allow using information from one's family members, not unless they have been independently published and verified. This is unfortunately not a good practice. Bottom line: every fact needs to be sourced, via a footnote, to a reliable, independent source. Otherwise it may be removed as unverifiable. Up to an including the fact that we cannot verify that you are who you say you are - how can we know that you are not adding a hoax? There is WP:AGF, and we trust that you mean well, but if we cannot verify the information you add we will have to remove it. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
While you're correct, given that Korea-related articles are often in such a poor state and missing so much info, I would still sleep comfortably at night knowing that a few tidbits that are probably true are being added on an otherwise uncommonly edited and viewed article. If it was like an entire article or if the article was heavily trafficked or thoroughly curated I would be pickier.
At the very least, I think we should keep it with a citation needed on it. toobigtokale (talk) 04:31, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
toobigtokale, Piotrus is, as you say, correct. Please read and digest Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. If you'd like articles to be augmented with "tidbits that are probably true" regardless of their verifiability, you're welcome to fork Wikipedia for just this purpose. -- Hoary (talk) 04:47, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Please dial down the condescension a bit. I've seen and read the essay before, and understand it. I've already acknowledged I'm slightly in the wrong, but I just don't enjoy punishing a person's edits when they asked us here politely and made an effectively harmless edit in the grand scheme of things. Millions of worse, large, harmful edits go unnoticed (I know, because I'm also on the front lines cleaning them up). I'm just not all that bothered by this, which is part of why I'd never make the cut to be an admin 😅.
Since I've acknowledged that I'm probably in the wrong, I encourage others to respond to @Siegfried Proust's edit as they see fit. toobigtokale (talk) 05:19, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
It is really a sad dead horse problem. So many folks have been discouraged for contributing to Wikipedia because they are either unable or unwilling to reference their edits, and it is quite unfortunate when those folks are good faithed and "correct". I have talked to quite a few academics who cannot understand why their edits were reverted ("but I am the world's foremost expert on Foo, why should I need to cite anything, I wrote similar stuff for Academic Encyclopedia of Foo and Journal of Foo and they accepted my words without the need for footnotes"). Ditto for the case here. But in the end, Hoary is right to link VNT essay. We can assume good faith, but we have to verify that information is true. And that policy also is needed to make sure that we don't AGF hoaxse, slander, or jokes. Trust me, I am Trump's wife and I know he is an alien from the 9th dimension... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:04, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
PS. The reason I am not reverting this is because it replaced one unreferenced, unverified claim with another. How are we supposed to know which version is correct? Both fail V, and in theory, most information in that article should be removed, but at the same time, we all know that nobody cares because it is probably mostly correct. That's why the article has maintenance templates and low assessment category, shrug. Maybe our newcomer will try to improve it. Or maybe they won't and the article will wait for years or decades to reach a higher quality level. Shrug. Millions of articles need fixes, millions need to be written, and we have only few thousand active volunteers... that's wiki life for you (us). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:08, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Piotrus, on waiting for years or decades, here are just two I've recently encountered: (i) eight-year-old article, mostly not referenced at all, but to some degree referenced to material by the subject's children; (ii) conspicuous attempt at some sort of joke, added by witless IP fifteen years earlier. (See this comment if wondering.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
your best bet would be to have (legitimate) articles published off Wikipedia first on third-party, independent sources. Someone will then pick it up from there. – robertsky (talk) 09:38, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Bombardment of Yeonpyeong#Requested move 6 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Bombardment of Yeonpyeong#Requested move 6 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:33, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:E (Epik High album)#Requested move 10 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:E (Epik High album)#Requested move 10 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:38, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Displaying old Korean text?

I just wrote this article: Letter to Lee Eung-tae. Is there some way to get the old Korean lettering to display in blocks properly? I think maybe there's some text encoding stuff at play that I don't understand. For example, Hunminjeongeum has old Korean text that shows up as boxes with x's in them on my Mac. Maybe that's the lettering in blocks that I need, but I wouldn't know where to begin in 1. getting that to show up on my Mac, and 2. how to translate the stilted lettering I have into blocks. toobigtokale (talk) 14:16, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Ah darn, I just got back to my Windows PC. It displays fine on Windows; it was a Mac thing. toobigtokale (talk) 00:00, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Vital is looking for more folks to opine on what are the most important articles on Wikipedia and at V5 is trying to create a corpus of 50k most important topics. Perhaps you'd be interested in discussions such as Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/History_and_geography#North_Korean_cities and similar. Cheers, Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:43, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Seoul

This article has been in need of a fix up for a long time. Is someone willing to step up and work on it? toobigtokale (talk) 11:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Seoul municipal gov't should hire a Wikipedian-in-residence to deal with this and related. I know, wishful thinking here. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:44, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Queen Jeongseong

Can one, or some, of you have a look at this article and the recent history? I have no idea what's going on or why the stakes seem to be so high--but in my experience article improvement is the best way to prevent disruption. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies Not sure what is going there either, but I've added the obvious {{morefootnotes}} Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:46, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles § About adding a link to each hangul syllable using Template:Linktext. 172.56.232.220 (talk) 17:49, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Responded, but others please give this a read too. toobigtokale (talk) 00:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
It has been a week. Any more comments? It is a bit long, but please give it a read and leave a comment there. 172.56.232.26 (talk) 20:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
It has been two weeks. Any more comments? 172.56.232.84 (talk) 20:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
By the way, I originally thought of waiting for a month, but it looks like I don't even need to wait that long. Unless something unusual happens, on February 1 (that is three weeks since I opened the discussion), I will add what I wrote on that discussion page to the MOS-KO page and make a bot request. 172.56.232.202 (talk) 17:51, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Correction and clarification: (Unless something unusual happens,) I will close the discussion at 23:59, 1 February 2024 (UTC); the edit and the bot request will be made after that. 172.56.232.216 (talk) 04:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
About 24 hours left. Nothing unusual happened so far. 172.56.232.125 (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion closed. 172.56.232.167 (talk) 00:11, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Japanese post in Korea

A post on this article's talk page suggests this article stops at 1905 when the facts show a continuation until 1945. Perhaps some of the project's members can expand this article to improve its coverage. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 11:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

North Korea has an RfC

North Korea, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Sagflaps (talk) 00:44, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

MR article title naming conventions

An IP asked a valuable question here that's been bugging me too.

Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean)#Question

Can we get momentum to change the policy to allow MR markings? I don't get why articles about other countries get to have markings and we don't. toobigtokale (talk) 09:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello? Can we please get more input on this? This is a pretty significant issue. toobigtokale (talk) 07:53, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
Commented. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oldest poem?

I stumbled upon this stub: Eulji Mundeok Hansi. Is this really the oldest poem as the article claims? Big if true moment. I feel like it can't be; it's probably from the 7th century or later, and we have a reasonable amount of writing from before that era. Even regular writing could have been seen as poetry based on how old Chinese worked. I gave it a quick Google but if someone's willing to take it up that'd be appreciated toobigtokale (talk) 03:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Article claims second oldest; shrug, it is totally unreferenced. Tagged as such, moving on unless you think it is a hoax? No ko interwiki even :( Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Chaoxianzu#Requested move 14 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Chaoxianzu#Requested move 14 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles § Proposal to formally allow removals of unnecessary RR and MR values in various Korean-related templates. 172.56.232.186 (talk) 02:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hangul and/or ko.wp for Lee Gap-seong?

Hi all,

Two articles currently (9 am UTC) link to this en.wp redlink

The "Lee" suggests that that person's family name is Lee (Korean surname).

A note in a Yonhap News Agency reference (in French) of 23 May 2023 here suggests the hanja for this person is "李甲成", who was born 1889 - died 1981.

Your opinions and advice about this?

Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:09, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't really understand what your question is; can you rephrase? toobigtokale (talk) 11:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kim Ju-ae#Requested move 26 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Kim Ju-ae#Requested move 26 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:39, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:United Kingdom–Korea Treaty of 1883#Requested move 27 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:United Kingdom–Korea Treaty of 1883#Requested move 27 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:02, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Lisa (South Korean singer)#Requested move 28 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Lisa (South Korean singer)#Requested move 28 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:31, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Page moves by Spacestationtrustfund

I recently noticed that Spacestationtrustfund moved lots of pages in 2022. Since article titles are supposed to follow whatever is common in English, it looks like these moves need to be reviewed. 172.56.232.225 (talk) 15:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Park Chanyeol#Requested move 1 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Park Chanyeol#Requested move 1 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 08:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Yoo Hae-jin#Requested move 25 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yoo Hae-jin#Requested move 25 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 14:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

AWB reference edits

You may have noticed I've been using Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser to edit the formatting of references on thousands of Korea-related articles. I wrote a custom find+replace script to do this.

Scope:

  • Author names
    • Removes some spurious first/last names (dates/timestamps in names, or the names of newspapers instead of people)
    • Splits entire Hangul names squeezed into the last= into last=... |first=
      • Currently when the entire name is squeezed into author=, I leave this alone.
    • Removes the term "기자" ("reporter") from first/last/author params.
  • Publication names
    • Fixes some typos or spelling variations
    • Links to Wikipedia article if it exists
    • Currently includes many Korean publications, publishers, and organizations (government and private), as well as major Japanese newspapers
  • Titles of articles
    • Removes some unnecessary artifacts in titles, namely repeating the name of the publication.
  • Language tag: fixes language=kr to language=ko. "KR" corresponds to Kanuri language, not Korean.

Sorry for editing some pages several times with this script; I'm still actively developing it (I tweak the script every few pages basically), so it's changed greatly since I first started running it.

Please let me know ASAP if you disagree with any edits or spot any mistakes. I tried to make the features uncontroversial. While AWB is semi-automatic (I look at and manually approve every edit), I may still occasionally overlook things. I've gone back and manually fixed things when I misclicked. toobigtokale (talk) 03:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, if you'd like to request that I run the script on any page/pages, please let me know. I may not get to running this on every single Korea-related page (I currently discover the pages by recursively searching categories), but I try to prioritize major pages first. toobigtokale (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
@Toobigtokale Almost a week since you started this your WP:COSMETICBOT/WP:MEATBOT edits via AWB, will this ever be completed as I see no end to this given that instead of running once per articles, you have been running your COSMETICBOT/MEATBOT twice on certain articles (to cherrypick few examples out of more than 100: Red Velvet, Pentagon, Shinee, Nam Ji-hyun, Park Gyu-ri) and even ridiculously 5 times on Ok Taec-yeon. Clearly doing a fuzzy search category by category is not working. In addition, I also noted that you have been adding additional rule to your COSMETICBOT/MEATBOT instead of having a clear fixed scope which should have been the case prior to starting the first edit. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 19:08, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Appreciate the feedback. You're definitely right that there is a scope creep problem; I've been getting greedy with fixing more and more things over time. It does need to stop at some point; I'll look into finding a way to run this once more on every page on WikiProject Korea then give it a rest. Maybe I'll rerun it periodically on new articles, but that's it.
While some of these changes are purely cosmetic, linking Wikipedia articles for publication names (which was my original purpose before scope creep) I'd argue is helpful. I started doing this because I've had several different discussions on Wiki where someone questioned the reliability of a major South Korean newspaper because they didn't recognize it; I'm hoping this contributes to transparency when people look at sources. Furthermore, I've also noticed several cases where unreliable sources are frequently being used on Wikipedia that are harder to spot (particularly OhmyNews). And for controversial topics I think having the links handy for easily scrutinizing sources is nice.
Again, I'll start dialing it back. Thanks for calling me out; I don't want to be disruptive, only helpful. toobigtokale (talk) 19:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
@Toobigtokale Thanks for the speedy reply. May I have an estimated timeline when "I'll look into finding a way to run this once more on every page on WikiProject Korea then give it a rest" would be completed, end of this week i.e. 10 March 2024. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 19:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Yeah I think 10 March 2024 is reasonable. I'll start looking into getting that running. There's around 50k articles in WPK, so I'll need a few days to get through that stack probably. toobigtokale (talk) 19:25, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
@Toobigtokale Noted, thanks you! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 19:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
@Toobigtokale, you really did great. Happy editing! — 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 04:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
FYI, this may be helpful:
Also, you may want to look for the string 뉴스 in the |last=, |first=, or |author= parameter. Simply replace 기자 with 뉴스 in the regex above.
I found some erroneous changes:
172.56.232.225 (talk) 15:29, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, will take a look soon. toobigtokale (talk) 20:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
I think I got almost all of both cases. Please let me know if you get more ideas for things to fix. toobigtokale (talk) 07:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
There are cases like |first=성규환 부산닷컴 기자 (in 2019 MBC Entertainment Awards) and |last=스타뉴스 (in Volume Up (EP)), but a regex search using [^\|\}]* or [^\|\}]+ throws a timeout error. 172.56.232.215 (talk) 17:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
I found two erroneous changes:
Also, this is quite interesting:
172.56.232.215 (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
The 성규환 example is an interesting one; I've seen its format around but haven't yet taken a deep look at it yet. It follows this pattern of |last=[some email address] |first=[name and usually some misc text]. I have to think through how to write a regex for it. I've noticed it maybe 10-20 times over all of my edits. If you can help me with writing a regex for it I'd appreciate it; otherwise I may get to it later, as it's a little infrequent. toobigtokale (talk) 03:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
A regex search like insource:/(last|first|author)[0-9]?[0-9]?=[^\|\}]*기자/ should work, but MediaWiki throws a timeout error. 172.56.232.215 (talk) 20:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
@Paper9oll, @Remsense and others, I've finished a bit ahead of schedule. There are actually around 33k articles on WPK, although my script only made changes on around half of them (many are too small or uncited). I still kept making additions while running the script, so some earlier pages (alphabetically sorted) don't have my later ones, but those are mostly cosmetic or minor changes. But I'll wait at least a year (lmk if I should wait longer) until I rerun this on any significant scale.
You may see me still running AWB, although I'll either be:
  1. Running it for a different primary purpose, although this script's features are general so I may still run it anyway
  2. Running it for a new page or a page that's since changed significantly
Future:
  • Fixing mistakes. I'll be looking out for them, but if you ever spot any, please ping me and I'll be happy to fix it.
  • There's still some unrelated AWB tasks for Korea-related pages that could be run. For example, as Remsense pointed out here (User talk:Toobigtokale#AWB to tag CJK text) automatically wrapping Korean text, perhaps by using Template:Korean (benefits of this explained on template page). However, to my understanding the impact of this is minor; won't make a significant impact on how almost all users will see pages.
    • I'm unlikely to do large-scale edits like this in the near future though.
Thanks for the feedback all. Hopefully these changes are helpful. toobigtokale (talk) 02:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Also to the IP user; I really think you should just make an account. I see you've been manually making dozens of changes that'd be easy to do with AWB, and AWB requires an account with adequate reputation. You'd be great with the program. You wouldn't have to stick with your account long term; just gain enough reputation to earn AWB privileges (I'm happy to vouch for you) and just use the account for AWB.
My understanding of WP:SOCKPUPPET tells me that if you want to edit on controversial topics, you're free to log out of your account and do so. As long as you're constructive while logged out and do not pretend to be multiple people to create the illusion of consensus, that wouldn't be considered sockpuppeting. toobigtokale (talk) 02:20, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Well, I originally didn't plan (and still am not planning) to stay here long. I appreciate your recommendation, but still not sure about that. 172.56.232.215 (talk) 07:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Lisa (South Korean singer)#Requested move 28 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Lisa (South Korean singer)#Requested move 28 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Oh Se-hun#Requested move 8 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Oh Se-hun#Requested move 8 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 17:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Korean Culture

When you plug Encyclopedia of Korean Culture links into VisualEditor's automatic citation generator, you should now get more fleshed out references. I wrote a script last year for this, and it's now been merged into Wikipedia. toobigtokale (talk) 11:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! 00101984hjw (talk) 19:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Liancourt Rocks#Requested move 7 April 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Liancourt Rocks#Requested move 7 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense诉 13:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Liberal Unification Party#Requested move 12 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Liberal Unification Party#Requested move 12 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dare to Love Me (TV series)#Requested move 17 April 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dare to Love Me (TV series)#Requested move 17 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 08:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Boo_Seung-kwan#Requested_move_8_June_2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Boo_Seung-kwan#Requested_move_8_June_2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Orangesclub (talk) 00:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:East Asian Gothic typeface#Requested move 27 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:East Asian Gothic typeface#Requested move 27 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense诉 19:00, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles § Thinking about removing Wiktionary links in some cases. 172.56.232.35 (talk) 05:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Expand translate

I've become a little skeptical of using and encouraging the use of Template:Expand Korean and similar. At the moment, many articles on it have a systemic issue with poor sourcing; possibly influenced by Namuwiki. I think it can be nice to look at for ideas or book/source recommendations, but encouraging people to translate it I think may create some work for us in sourcing and fact checking. toobigtokale (talk) 06:01, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I tell my students to find references for uncited content before translating. Overall I don't see a problem - if someone translates unreferenced content we feel is iffy, it can be removed per WP:V. But some content there is well referenced. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:44, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Definitely sympathetic to your points; wanted to record my doubt for others to see, as well as to spark any discourse. I will say most people won't be as careful/nuanced as you are with your instructions to your students. As we speak I'm on the front lines of cleaning up a lot of unsourced information that was often ported over from the kowiki 😅. It's a lot of work that I'd rather people didn't create more of. toobigtokale (talk) 23:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Frankly, I am more concerned about improperly referenced content. I fear many people - including my students - are adding references that do not fully back up the text they are attached too. Cleaning up unreferenced content is only the tip of the iceberg :( Frankly, after 20 years here, I believe that unless the article is GA+ or has been written primarily by an experienced trustworthy editor, much of the content that appears referenced probably isn't :( Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Korean monarch names in infoboxes

I've noticed that in many infoboxes for Korean monarchs, their name is written in Hangul/Hanja as "[State] [Name]", for example "고려 성종" ("Goryeo Seongjong").

But I've never really seen a similar naming pattern used in Korean to describe kings like this. For example, the string "고려 성종" does not appear a single time on ko:성종 (고려).

I feel like this may have been artificially done to match the English naming pattern ("[Name] of [State]"), but I feel like this gives misleading emphasis on the use of this kind of naming pattern in Korean.

Does anyone know about this? I don't have much background in pre-modern Korean history. If there's consensus that this is unusual, I may propose going through using Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser to automatically redo every infobox to remove this kind of pattern. toobigtokale (talk) 07:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:List of Korean films of 1919–1948

An editor has requested that List of Korean films of 1919–1948 be moved to List of films produced in Korea under Japanese rule, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. toobigtokale (talk) 04:46, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

This discussion still needs one or two more participants. Please help out. @Piotrus can you give some input? toobigtokale (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Rewrote March 1st Movement

I'm a month or two late for the holiday, but rewrote this article. If anyone can upload more photos of the event, particularly ones good for the infobox, that'd be appreciated (I can't as an IP user). 104.232.119.107 (talk) 06:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to the 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest

Hello, everyone! I'd like to invite you all to sign up for the upcoming 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. The event runs from July 1 to September 30 and signups close on July 15. The WikiContest focuses on developing countries, which they have included North Korea within. The intention is to improve the English Wikipedia's coverage and comprehension of articles related to developing countries. For this reason, you may also expect that articles related to the North Korea may be heavily edited during the contest. More information on how points will be awarded can be found at Wikipedia:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest/Scoring. For comments or suggestions, please don't hesitate to reach out to Wikipedia talk:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. Thank you! (Copied with the permission of Chlod) CMD (talk) 12:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

List of K-pop concerts held outside Asia

Now that sadly this extremely useful article was deleted, how to provide this information instead? It sounds like we're now forced to include it in each artist's article instead, and perhaps add tracking categories by year under Category:Lists of concert tours of South Korean artists? Nemo 15:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

So for example for Europe it could be something like Category:Concert tours of Europe by South Korean artists (88 additions). This doesn't cover the individual performances and the articles often don't mention the exact dates and venues; the list article also had more references than the individual articles. Many more tours touched the USA or Canada and could go under equivalent categories under Category:Concert tours of North America. Nemo 16:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Those categories could be useful if the tours are notable enough to have their own article, but putting the articles about the artists (not the tours) into those categories doesn't make sense because they are people/groups, not tours. Gottagotospace (talk) 19:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
I understand the concern, hence I only added the category to articles where the tour was mentioned explicitly. As for the naming of the categories, I think that's minor aspect which can be fixed.
A traditional way to handle it is to have a redirect from the tour name to the main article, and add the category to the redirect. The advantage of this method is that it's possible to redirect to a specific section of the main article, but it still feels a bit clunky to me.
Personally I'd prefer a way to name the categories in a sufficiently neutral name which can apply to the artist articles as well. For example we could name them all after the parent category Category:Lists of concert tours of South Korean artists, like Category:Lists of concert tours of South Korean artists in Europe in 2017 etc. The articles about the artists are also lists of their tours and other works, unless these were split to other articles. Nemo 19:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
I saw you made some categories called "South Korean artists with concert tours of Europe in [insert year]", which does at least solve the "people/groups aren't tours" problem. However, I think that adding categories like that to an artist's page is overdoing it. In my opinion, pages already tend to have too many categories, and a piece of information about the fact that they went on tour in Europe in [insert year] doesn't need to be put in a category, especially because some K-pop artists go to Europe super often and then they'll end up with like 10 categories about their European concerts on the artist's page. If the tour is notable enough to have its own article, then I support having the page for the tour be in a category about K-pop concert tours in Europe in a certain year, but otherwise I think it's kind of silly.
The points made by some of the editors in the deletion discussion for List of K-pop concerts held outside Asia are factoring into my opinion as well. In particular, a couple people made points that K-pop has become so popular and global now that tons of K-pop groups perform outside of Asia, and do so relatively frequently. So the fact that they're having concerts in Europe is not particularly notable. Gottagotospace (talk) 19:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
I agree with this. I saw that Nemo has been adding Category:South Korean artists with concert tours of Europe in 2018 and what not to various articles and I don't think its a good idea. I think a better way to organize this would be simply adding the tour articles itself to Category:Concert tours of Europe, not the articles of the artists. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 20:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Adding to it that those recently created cats are WP:OVERCAT and falls under WP:OCYEAR and WP:OVERLAPCAT. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 20:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
WP:BRD is clearly not aheld to, you WP:BOLD ahead and was evidently reverted earlier on BLP articles, and now you discuss instead of disruptively bolding ahead again to illustrate a point. I also don't see any consensus for re-bolding. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
These categories have been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 21#Category:Concert tours of Europe by South Korean artists. Liz Read! Talk! 01:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Help request

Mental health in South Korea is in significant need of expansion. I just gave it a revision to combine redundant info and regroup/reorder topics, but it's still relatively sparse. If you can help out, please do. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 05:20, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Unequal treaty#Requested move 6 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Unequal treaty#Requested move 6 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense诉 18:06, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:My Cute Guys#Requested move 9 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:My Cute Guys#Requested move 9 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 08:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Shamoji#Requested move 12 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Shamoji#Requested move 12 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 11:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Sad Story of Self Supporting Child#Requested move 22 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Sad Story of Self Supporting Child#Requested move 22 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Wuju Daisuki (talk) 19:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dongguk Tonggam#Requested move 20 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dongguk Tonggam#Requested move 20 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 23:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

No kid zone listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for No kid zone to be moved to No kid zone (South Korea). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 12:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Culture ministry to update Wikipedia entries on Korea, enhance national image with AI

We'll see what happens, I guess. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed... I hope they consulted the Wikimedia Foundation about this and understand Wikipedia's editing policies well. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 07:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Is K-Pop a music genre?

Due to my edits on quite a lot of articles of K-Pop songs being removed most of them saying K-Pop isn't a genre. I believe it is and I want to provide a consensus across Wikipedia if it is.

From what I know, the first known open discussion about this is made by me at Talk:K-pop#Is K-Pop a music genre? and one at Talk:Ddu-du Ddu-Du#Is K-Pop a music genre?


If this discussion gets too big, maybe it could it a WikiProject if it works like that too. —Tonkarooson (talk) 00:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Missing infobox cleanup tool (category) for Korean articles?

Anyone has any idea why we are missing the following tool for Korea - linking Chinese here as examples of functionality that (and many other projects) have: Category:China articles without infoboxes .

There is no Category:Korea articles without infoboxes :( Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here 03:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Wife ((G)I-dle song)#Requested move 30 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wife ((G)I-dle song)#Requested move 30 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 04:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Redoing the Sejong article

I'm trying to redo the Sejong the Great article, and would appreciate some help.

Things I need help with:

  1. Does anyone know of any biographies on Sejong that are considered authoritative/essential? I'm mostly seeing stuff meant for casual readers when I search... I want whatever dry books historians use.
  2. Can anyone find and upload a new infobox image for the page? See Talk:Sejong the Great#Infobox image.
  3. Fact checking. I'm a newbie to pre-19th century Joseon history.

211.43.120.242 (talk) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Excessive info about wars in place articles

A quote from the article about the SK government and Wikipedia has made me think recently. When searching for Korea-related information on travel information platforms, one often encounters topics such as the demilitarized zone (DMZ) tourism, while the rich and diverse aspects of Korean culture and society remain largely overlooked. My feelings on the article are mixed, but this quote made me notice a pattern I hadn't fully processed before.

Some articles for Korea about places and things are I think unfairly bleak reading. I think it's because we have a disproportionate number of people interested in Korea's wars (particularly the Korean War) and in little else about Korea, which has led to a sharp imbalance that unfairly hurts Korea's image.

I almost feel like this is a case of WP:BLP. Hypothetically, if you had a small village with a tragic past but people still living there today, do they really deserve to have 70% of their article be about war and death, when they've done so much else before and after that? Yes, the info is true; Korea's recent history was bleak. If there was lots of other non-war info presented in each article, it wouldn't be an issue. But at present so many articles make Korea look like a still-smouldering crater, which is far from the truth.

I'm going to make a point of trying to balance out this kind of info going forward; please join me in it if you can. Again, we of course want to preserve the truth and provide enough tools for people to do more reading about the dark topics without harping on them. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 09:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

A further thought; part of this is influenced by English-language coverage of Korea, which also tends to fixate on Korea's tragic past. Drama sells books and gets views in the news.
Korean-language coverage is of course much more varied. This is another reason why more Korean speakers are needed on Enwiki. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 08:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
In your opinion, which category of articles are most in need of attention? I can help with Korean sourcing and translation since I'm pretty confident in both languages. 00101984hjw (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Pages with excess dark info I think fortunately tend to have low pageviews, so I think this overall doesn't worry me too much.
Speaking in general, Top/High importance pages for the WikiProject need a lot of attention. Any page you choose from there would be great to work on.
Among them, I think Sejong the Great and Yi Sun-sin are especially important and actually somewhat doable to fix. I feel like someone just needs to have 2-3 solid academic books (should be some in English), and then they can scrap the old articles almost entirely and do their own rewrites. Both articles are poor enough that a good complete rewrite would be defensible I think. Basically what I did for March First Movement.
Those tasks are quite big though. Other top level pages are easier tasks. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 11:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
I think one of the problems we have for these articles is that Sejong and Yi happen to be the two most famous Korean folk heroes, and many Korean books and articles about them are written in a very subjective, narrative manner. I don't live near a library, but I can certainly look up for more academic studies in DBpia.
btw Great job on the March first movement article. Looks amazing. 00101984hjw (talk) 16:23, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks 🙂 211.43.120.242 (talk) 15:07, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Another important one: Seoul. The article has a bunch of unsourced and dated claims that can easily be cited. It also could use more peer reviewed scholarly sources to replace low quality ones. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 11:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Converting full-width punctuation and currency symbols in horizontal text

Greetings! Over the past few years, there have been no objections to converting Latin letters and Arabic numerals to ASCII from their full-width forms when they appear in horizontal Chinese, Korean, or Japanese text. I've raised it on MOS and Wikiproject talk pages and made many cleanup edits to articles. I'm making a push to finish that cleanup, and I've been noticing that punctuation, currency symbols, and spaces have the same problem. It looks weird to have the full-width versions mixed in, and they sometimes leak into English-language text. My plan was to start converting punctuation and currency symbols in horizontal text (except where the characters themselves are being discussed) when the July 1 database dump becomes available in a week or two. If you have any questions, objections, concerns, or suggestions, please let me know! Open-circle full stop is not included; the affected characters are: ＂ ＃ ＄ ％ ＆ ＇ ＊ ＋ － ／ ＠ ＼ ＾ ＿ ｀ ￠ ￥ ￦ ＜ ＝ ＞ ｜ ￤ and the space character. -- Beland (talk) 17:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Uploaded image guide on project page

On the main WikiProject page, I added a subsection to "resources" that serves as a guide for images. Please feel free to add more websites/advice to this list. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 09:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Drafts

There's a sizeable backlog of draft articles waiting to be evaluated if anyone's willing to go through them. I've also contributed a good chunk of these recently lol 211.43.120.242 (talk) 16:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Cha Eun-woo § Listing of "model" as a profession

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Cha Eun-woo § Listing of "model" as a profession, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Reference formatting proposal

I posted a proposal on how to handle Hangul names in references at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles#Handling Hangul names in references. This proposal would have a significant impact on Korea-related pages, so please discuss if interested. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 01:46, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I have more proposals for the MOSKO/NCKO; some of these are relatively uncontroversial so I expect them to pass quicker. After the current proposal concludes I'll try to bundle some uncontroversial modifications together as a package to reduce discussion bloat/fatigue. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 01:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

No kid zone

Hi, I'd appreciate if an experienced editor familiar with Korean could take a look at Template:Did you know nominations/No kid zone. An IP recently added a bunch of Korean-language sources and I wish to assume good faith, but I'm unsure of their reliability since I don't speak the language. A second opinion would be greatly appreciated. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources should hopefully help. The sources I added should already have been Wikilinked too; almost all the sources each have their own articles.
I'm User:Toobigtokale (contribs) btw; on my old account I had around 77,000 edits and I think 5 or 6 GAs. Samples of my work: March First Movement and 1883 Korean special mission to the United States.
I welcome others to review my additions. Sorry if I stepped on any toes when editing the article. The topic is on a sensitive area for South Koreans, and wanted to contribute more South Korean perspectives and context to it before it appears on the front page. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 13:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
For me, the added Korean-language sources are reliable per WP:KO/RS. You could also use this user script to know which sources are reliable or not. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 14:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Okay, I appreciate everyone chipping in here. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

White Shirts Society has an RfC

White Shirts Society has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Emiya1980 (talk) 04:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yuna Kim A-class assessment

Hello everyone, WikiProject Figure Skating has just started doing A-class assessments. Our first article submitted for review is Yuna Kim, and we're in need of a third reviewer. Here's the link to the assessment: Wikipedia:WikiProject Figure Skating/Assessment/Yuna Kim. The assistance of any member of this project would be muchly appreciated. You don't have to necessarily be a figure skating expert (although that would help, of course), but you should at least be knowledgeable about editing and contributing to Wikipedia. Thanks to all and best. Editor120918756 (talk) 06:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Correcting Ive → IVE, Le Sserafim → LE SSERAFIM, Twice → TWICE, etc.

I have started a conversation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ive_(group)#Ive_%E2%86%92_IVE_per_MOS:IDENTITY

I believe I have noticed a systemic error in some editors' interpretation of site guidelines and policies insofar as accepting the stylization of Korean pop groups. Not only would policies such as MOS:BIOEXCEPT and MOS:IDENTITY allow, for example, for the Wikipedia article about ARTMS to be titled ARTMS instead of Artms, because these articles are regarding living person(s), these articles must be titled in this way, as their current titles violate WP:BLP. Any experienced editors who can comment on any or all of the strength of this argument, the extent of this violation in this topic area, and/or the best way to begin to start tackling this (would an en masse Move Request need to be done to address WP:CONSISTENT? can someone formulate this as an WP:RFC better than I'd be able to?) – or indeed, anyone who disagrees – may be interested in commenting. 122141510 (talk) 18:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikiproject

Would anyone be interested in joining a sub project of WP:Anthropology on oral tradition? Kowal2701 (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources

I recently gave the reliable sources list a reformatting. I also made some editorial decisions in removing some sources from the list, but I wasn't particularly rigorous. Honestly looking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources/Archive 1, the list itself wasn't created with much rigor; we really should go through and scrub it harder.

The reliable source list is important; see the considered unreliable section. Allkpop, Soompi, and OhmyNews are used all the time in pop culture articles but they're considered unreliable sources. This list should be maintained and enforced with more rigor. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 05:09, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

We should use these

ko:위키백과:참 잘했어요 도장 The Korean Wikipedia has these nice little stamps, basically WP:Barnstars. If anyone's interested, may be nice to implement and use these for our WikiProject. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 13:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

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