Wikipedia talk:Requests for checkuser/Case/Listerin

I'm a little concerned about this case, and I'm not convinced that they are all sock puppets. In particular on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kent-Meridian High School User:KarenAnn and User:Capit are dimetrically opposed.

User:Hipocrite has been very quick to use the sockpuppet tag originally accusing Capit as being a sock of User:SirIsaacBrock [1]

There is evidence of some outside cordination, from Capits talk page -

Those edits, done on the instructions of someone else, all occurred at the same time and therefore can be considered one incident. A person told me some extremely upsetting things about a school page and that the person who was trying to delete the school page systematically did this to school pages all the time. So I did what he said to do.

My guess is that these users all go to the same school with a shared IP address and there has been talk in the school about this. The age profiles seem to be different Capit shows signs of being a youngster, and KarenAnn/Matisse claims to be 65.

I find this case troubling. WP:BITE may apply, worse is the reaction of User talk:Mattisse, a user with significant contributions, who is on the point of quitting because she has been accused of being a sockmaster of the very people who attacked her.

The other users especially User:Massmato has a very different contribution history. --Salix alba (talk) 09:01, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The IP evidence was beyond conclusive. I weighed these possibilities before going public. In addition, I sought the opinion of another checkuser who concurred in my judgement. Editing times ruled out the possibility of a school IP, as did other considerations. I have been in communication with the user and repeatedly sought answers to these questions, without avail. I was somewhat perplexed myself on discovering the connexion but there's simply no other way to explain these results. Mackensen (talk) 13:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• Strange as it seems, there have been users who created sockpuppets for vandalism, and then fixed the vandalism with their main account, to get credit and recognition. It is not unknown for people to claim to have been attacked in order to get sympathy and attention. Thatcher131 (talk) 17:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I think this a big shame. I've been editing on pages with Karen Ann - now Matisse for some time now. She has been an excellant contributor but was under considerable pressure from an individual user she felt was intimidating her after her work on an unrelated page - this went to rfc. This sense worsened when she innocently embarked on a Afd binge which turned very sour. I believe her sockpuppet accounts were naive attempts to avoid perceived harrassment and were not created to disrupt the process. I have provided some diffs on Matisse's talk page which show that she was trying to get some anonymity after these difficulties - and also show her genuine innocence of the procedures. I think that this is a potential WP:BITE issue and it's a shame if she quits, not least for me because her help has been invaluable.--Zleitzen 02:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

You might like to add IP 153.2.246.30 (belongs to UPS) which added a note on schools on meta:Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians. I see it now, under guise of a parcel delivery service, agents of the keep schools on wikipedia brigade are roaming the land, convincing teenagers and 65 year olds to vote against deletions. Looks like you've got a task on your hands. --Salix alba (talk) 22:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Orangehead

Hipocrite, I sent you an email about this because I was seeing the same pattern, so feel free to ignore it now. In addition, to what Hipocrite raised, I point to this set of back-to-back edits [2]. The keep comment that schools can never be deleted is a Capit hallmark. Also note the comment about User:RJHall's "vote". KarenAnn/Mattisse had a history with RJHall so this snide comment about RJHall's "vote" being the bottom line on school article discussions is just something of resentment piled upon sarcasm. Metros232 21:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but this reference to an obscure British expletive [3] made by "Orangehead" doesn't sound anything like the polite and clearly American KarenAnn who was dilligently referencing the Fidel Castro page for months. I hold my hands up, something is afoot.--Zleitzen 22:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it doesn't seem like KarenAnn, that's what's odd about this. Even Mackensen seemed perplexed with the results as expressed on the talk page here [4]. I wonder what is going on too because my interactions with KarenAnn were all good ones. I was really shocked to see the sockpuppet template attached to Capit. Well, no, I wasn't shocked that Capit was a sockpuppet...but I was shocked it was pointing back to KarenAnn. 'Tis a shame. Metros232 22:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry! It's not Mattisse, it's her GRANDDAUGHTER (that's why the IP addresses will be an exact match - don't you see) per [5]. Hipocrite - «Talk» 02:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That would make a lot of sense! Good stuff. I hope KarenAnn/Matisse returns.--Zleitzen 02:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Hipocrite is being sarcastic...and rightfully so. I conversed with KarenAnn myself both on and off-wiki, and she was very supportive of me on an Rfc filed against me...she complained repeatedly about being treated poorly regarding Afd's on school related articles, and I encouraged her to stay away from those since they tend to get heated at times. She told me that she was going to get a name change yet never told me her new name...then I stumbled into this checkuser result and after I told her I don't approve of sock accounts that are used to work on Afd's and other areas of voting, she pleaded innocence and blamed her grandchildren and other familiy members or friends. She told me that she was turning to the "Dark Side" in an email, and I pretty much broke off contact after that. Today, Orangehead shows up and makes the opposite comments in a deletion review[6] then she made in the Rfc that was deleted...basically saying I was aggressive, etc. I'm inclined to think that Orangehead/GrapePie are Mattisse and she is simply trolling at this point. The comments made to Salix alba have similar typos as I saw in emails to me.--MONGO 04:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Shame, Oh well. She did some good editing work with me anyway. A sorry tale indeed. Thanks for clearing everything up MONGO and co.--Zleitzen 04:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone here read WP:AGF? You will need far greater evidence than presented here to establish that its not situation described on my talk page. Does a 65 year old use terms like Screw you! (Capits talk page), does an editor with over 1000 edits ask for suggestions as to what to do on WP as they are getting board of AfD (it being the only place they know).

I'm discusted by the abrupt curt behaviour of all concered, especially Hipocrite who seems to have a level of arogance and parinoia, which does nothing but inflame situations. All it takes is spending a bit of time in a non agressive manner to explain in simple terms what goes on to arrive a the truth. Has there at any stage in this process been any serious attempt made for the acussed to explain themselves? No. Actions have been entirely the wrong ones to keep the good editors, instead as Orange head says we are creating a climate where only the young aggressive males. can thrive. --Salix alba (talk) 08:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to note that I was incredibly nice to the good editor who got wrongly attacked in that AFD, to the extent that the good editor left a positive note in my talk page. I went after Capit for attacking Mattisse, and now her new socks are attacking me. It's not paranoia if it's actually a sock. [7] Hipocrite - «Talk» 10:22, 1 August 2006 (UTC)