Wikipedia talk:How to create a page

Where to find help creating a page

For instructions about how to create a page, click here: Wikipedia:How to create a page - or here: Wikipedia:Your first article.

If you are having trouble following those instructions, ask for help here: The Teahouse, where friendly volunteers are able to assist you.

Do not post your questions or test edits here. This is not the place for them. --MelanieN (talk) 23:53, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

To protect, or not?

Last week I declined a request for semi-protection of this page. I could see that the page was being used for random requests for help from clueless newbies, but I was hoping that additional messaging might be enough to guide them to the right place to get actual help. But the random requests and test edits have continued. To the regulars who watch this page: what are your thoughts about semi-protection? I generally don't like protecting talk pages, and WP:Protection policy discourages it. ("Talk pages are not usually protected, and are only semi-protected for a limited duration in the most severe cases of vandalism.") But this talk page isn't being used to discuss changes in the main page, as talk pages are intended; it is being used almost entirely for test edits and misplaced requests for help. I hate to simply lock out the newbies who are looking for help, but they aren't getting any help by posting here. They need to go to the Teahouse or other help locations. If they couldn't post here, would they follow the guidance on this page and go where they can get help - or would they simply give up in despair? Is this a case for WP:IAR? Let's talk about it. --MelanieN (talk) 11:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ymblanter, CambridgeBayWeather, KrakatoaKatie, and Callanecc: Pinging some admins who do a lot of work with page protection. What do you think about this page? Is semi-protection an option, or are there other ways we could deal with this? --MelanieN (talk) 14:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I am also not happy about indef semi-protecting this page. May be we can draw the Teahouse folks attention to this page? I guess just replying to the newbies on this page is not helpful either - they probably never return to check the answer to their question.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:48, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? I don't think they'd give up in despair; I think they're putting them here because they can. I don't like protecting it but they're not getting the help they need, and maybe need to force the issue. If we put in big(ger) bold(er) letters to 'click here for the Teahouse, where you can get help creating a page' or something like that, we could try protecting it for three to six months. Also pinging NeilN, Lectonar, and MusikAnimal. Katie^talk 14:52, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

The page notice is too wordy for editors who don't have English as their first language (which I suspect is true for the majority of people posting here by mistake). It should consist of two links:

• Click here to create a new article (goes to Article Wizard)
• Click here to ask questions about creating an article (goes to Teahouse)

And use color to make the text stand out --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:06, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately many of the new users editing here are on mobile and will not see the edit notice :( — MusikAnimal ^talk 17:16, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree that those page-top orange notices are ironically easy to ignore. That was why I tried putting an explanatory note as the first section on this talk page. It didn't help; people are replying to it instead of reading it. Maybe keep or expand an explanatory section with links to where to get help, or better yet something like what Neil suggests, only as a talk page section rather than a page-top notice. Then delete or archive all the test edits and help requests, leaving only that section, and THEN semi-protect the page. --MelanieN (talk) 17:25, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

P.S. Is there some link on the main page suggesting that people put semi-protected edit requests here? If so, if we semi-protect this page we would need to disable that link. --MelanieN (talk) 17:47, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

A quick look and it doesn't appear there is a link to here on the main page. There are also no links to Wikipedia:Your first article or the tea house on the main page or any of the links in the second paragraph on this page. As for the page notices that appear at the top. In mobile you can't see the notices and on a desktop the browser can jump quick enough that you don't see them unless you scroll back up. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

What about changing the default protection edit notice which says that they can post a semi-protected edit request (probably why we're getting so many) to a custom one (like Template:Article creation editnotice). It's probably worth doing this with the articles that template is used on (as currently it's only shown to autoconfirmed editors anyway). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ymblanter, CambridgeBayWeather, MusikAnimal, NeilN, Callanecc, and KrakatoaKatie: It's been 3 1/2 weeks since we started this discussion. We decided not to semi-protect, but maybe to change the warnings at the top of this page. Also, additional warnings were put on the main page. Since then, nine non-autoconfirmed users have posted here on the talk page. In all cases it was their first and last Wikipedia edit. Many of the posts were semi-coherent "help me create a page" requests. One was spam. One was outright vandalism. Some were test edits. None were constructive, or of any value to the poster or to us. We have deleted them, sometimes with a comment on the user's talk page. In no case did the comment on the user's talk page have any effect, or help them with their questions, or help to retain them as editors. In all cases they made a random edit here and then disappeared. Bottom line, we gave it a try, but clearly it is not accomplishing anything to let brand-new users post here. Warnings and notices have no effect. Page-watchers are having to deal with inappropriate edits, without any positive results. I have reluctantly concluded we should add the two top-of-the-page links that NeilN suggested - not as orange notices, but as the first comments on this page (if there is a problem with mobile users not seeing the page-top notices) - and maybe delete or archive all other content on this talk page so that is the only thing they see - and then semi-protect this page. The "semi-protected" notice at the top of the main article already directs them to WP:New contributors' help page, not here, so there is absolutely no reason any non-autoconfirmed editor should ever post here. What do the rest think? --MelanieN (talk) 22:56, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Looks like we need indeed to do this.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:29, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Afraid so. Three more in the five days since I posted this. I am going to semi-protect it for three months and see what happens. We may eventually decide to do it indefinitely. --MelanieN (talk) 20:09, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

The semi-protection expired two days ago and suddenly the page is filled with inappropriate edits. I am going to protect it again, for 6 months this time. It seems even more clear that allowing lost newbies to edit here is not doing them, or anybody else, any favors. . --MelanieN (talk) 23:09, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected for a year this time. --MelanieN (talk) 23:52, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected indefinitely. Clearly it is always going to need it. --MelanieN (talk) 20:58, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the article. If "Method 2" is not anymore recommended, perhaps update the numbering on the page. Confused me a bit. RainyVision (talk) 12:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)