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November 4

Why do Germans (and their friends) notate B𝄫 with Heses and not Bes?

The German notation of B𝄫 is Heses. The logic of it escapes me. It'd seem more natural to use Bes. Hes doesn't even exist (it's B) so why should Heses? Anyone's got an idea? 178.51.16.158 (talk) 04:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alteration by a chromatic semitone downwards is indicated in German by appending -(e)s to the name of the tone, and alteration by two chromatic semitones downwards is indicated by appending -(e)ses. This is also the logic governing Heses. Note that double flats made a relatively late appearance in Western music. The real question is then, why the German name B instead of Hes? The roots of this exception are historical, B being the majuscule of earlier b, going back to Guido of Arezzo's notation of ♭ for a semitone up from a, while h stood for his ♮, a full tone up from a. Confusing as this already is in view of the English and Dutch notations, using Bes for B𝄫 would only have added to the confusion. --Lambiam 07:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you were saying three questions earlier Guido borrowed from pseudo-Odo. Remember? (A fun name! Try saying it three times in a row!) And I believed you. So credit where credit's due. And in case anyone wonders why Lambiam brought in the Dutch: in the Netherlands B is B, Bes is B♭ and there is no H. That is relatively new I think. Post World War II. 178.51.16.158 (talk) 07:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps post the Napoleonic Wars.^[1]

While the use in Pseudo-Odo's Dialogus de musica is the first known use, these names might have been forgotten but for their adoption by the influential Guido van Arezzo. --Lambiam 11:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So the Dutch have actually been doing that for hundreds of years. I've learned something new. Thanks. 178.51.16.158 (talk) 12:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]