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Thompson Chicago plat 1830

[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 12 Sep 2010 at 00:03:28 (UTC)

Original - The original plat that led to Chicago becoming a municipality and eventually a city.
Reason
The filing of this 1830 map of Chicago is said to mark the beginning of the municipality of Chicago, which would incorporate as a city later that decade. To this day the original 58 blocks of this city are regarded as such, with the most famous being Block 37. Wolf Point, Chicago is block 14. This recently passed at VPC and I thought I would get a consideration here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Articles in which this image appears
108 North State Street
Wolf Point, Chicago
History of Chicago
Sauganash Hotel
FP category for this image
Wikipedia:Featured pictures/Diagrams, drawings, and maps/Maps
Creator
James Thompson
  • Support as nominator --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, though it might benefit from a little light sharpening. As I'm leaving for a week, presume I support any version. Adam Cuerden (talk) 00:12, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm concerned about the source and description. No doubt this is a map of Chicago as it was in 1830; however, I find it odd that a Chicago Historical Society would contemporaneously create a map stating that it was of "Chicago in 1830". Usually a contemporary map is simply "Chicago", and not distributed by an historical society. The map likely dates from later than 1830 or, if not the map itself, then the framing stating it's from the Historical Society. (Though then it should have been labelled "1830 map of Chicago", rather than "map of Chicago in 1830".) --Golbez (talk) 15:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I imagine the text at the bottom has been added. User:JeremyA uploaded this and has knowledge of alternate versions. I'll call his attention to this concern.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:00, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • This is a plat rather than a historical map—It is an 1830 survey of how Chicago was planned to look when laid out rather than how Chicago was in 1830. This historical value of the plat is that before it Chicago was just a few scattered huts; the plat laid out the grid system of what is now downtown Chicago, and so could be considered the founding document of the city. I am not sure if the original of this plat still exists. The Chicago Historical Society holds a certified copy from 1837.[1] The reproduction that we have here comes from A.T. Andreas' 1884 book History of Chicago (volume 1, p. 112),[2] the text at the bottom states "from a plat in possession of Chicago Historical Society", so I think Andreas used the 1837 copy as his source. It looks like there is a reproduction of the original in M.M. Quife (1923) Chicago's Highways[3] (p. 18).—Jeremy (talk) 16:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • I don't think anyone (I certainly wasn't) was challenging the veracity and historicity; I was simply challenging the description saying it was from 1830, which seemed unlikely based on my evidence. --Golbez (talk) 20:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The image barely meets the resolution requirement and is fuzzy even at the current resolution. I also don’t see the point of having a Chicago-of-the-week Featured Picture; with 6,932,407 articles, we can find subjects that aren’t “Chicago today”, “Chicago then”, “Chicago alderwoman”, and “Chicago brick building”. Greg L (talk) 19:51, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • If you'd ended your oppose after the first sentence, your opposition would have been well-reasoned and valid, instead of sounding kind of douchy. --Golbez (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • You are entitled to your opinion, as douchy as it sounds. And that’s Mr. Douche bag to you.  ;-) Every single one of the above examples of Chicago-related content is a real nom in just the last month or so from TonyTheTiger. If you think I’m the only one around around here who thinks FP has had more than its share of all-things-Chicago, there’s some news waiting for you. Enough already with Chicago; over-representation of that theme undermines one of the requisite requirements of FPs: that they be eye-catching, which can be undermined through tedium. Greg L (talk) 02:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • If anything is getting tedious, it is your off-point instigatory statements that have little to do with image quality.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • That doesn't make sense; if we had 10 FPCs of buildings around the world, how would that be less tedious than 10 FPCs of buildings in Chicago? --Golbez (talk) 04:04, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • He is not trying to make sense. He is trying to insult me or pick a fight or something. It has been going on for a couple of weeks now, where whenever I nominate something he makes a non-sensical objection about Chicago this and Chicago that.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • Indeed, and I'm not sure that's a valid reason to vote against an FPC. --Golbez (talk) 13:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • (*sigh*) Tony. Quoting you: He is not trying to make sense. He is trying to insult me or pick a fight or something. Is there any possible way I could have made myself any more clear? I’m not trying to insult you or pick a fight.

              I’ve been telling you that your nominations of all-things-Chicago are tedious and the subject “Chicago” has been awarded FP status more than enough now. I have invited you on many previous occasions to find a Chicago-related image that is stunningly eye-catching or to just start nominating non-Chicago-related subjects. But instead all we see out of you is “Chicago (building in)” “Chicago (alderwoman of)”, “Chicago (amphitheater in)”, “Chicago (actor who lived there)”, and “Chicago (park in)”. Many of your nominations have been really unremarkable as far as picture quality goes (thoroughly blah, overcast day, for instance) and we would look at some of these images and wonder “WTF, what’s the virtue of this nom?”, only to see it is a nom from you (“Oh… *Chicago*”).

              And remember, I enthusiastically supported your nom of Wolf Point; IMO, there’s room for even more Chicago-related stuff so long as it is genuinely eye-catching. Alas, I was in the extreme minority in supporting that Wolf Point nom.

              We simply don’t have enough participants to FPC and this can result in a thorough lack of diversity in subject matter if the “regulars” here don’t do a better job. For a while there, we were having far too many photos of birds. If you are going to be one of the few regular contributors to FPC, try being a better steward of the privilege and make nominations that highlights the diversity of subject matter the world has to offer that we can expose to our visiting I.P. readership.

              Boring readers to tears with all-things-Chicago speaks straight to the heart of whether any particular Today’s featured picture—where all but 16 FP-awarded pictures so far are heading—is eye-catching or not. Greg L (talk) 16:19, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

              • Why don't you tell the mushroom guys that they have already given us a broad spectrum of nominations and that it is getting tedious. Instead of evaluating whether each nomination is from Chicago, just say whether it is eye-catching. There will be another Chicago one soon, since the suspended nom below is ready to go. Evaluate that and others that follow based on whether they are eye-catching and not whether they are from Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
                • Regarding the “mushroom guys”, indeed, that is a good point. As for “eye-catching”, tedium is an element of that; that’s my point. It’s the same with birds and mushrooms; these things seem to come in waves. Greg L (talk) 17:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
                  • There are estimated to be 1.5 million species of fungi (and that doesn't include subspecies or the fact that species can look very different at different times in their lives) and we have 32 featured pictures. There are 10,000 extant species of bird, and we have around 175 featured pictures- sometimes several pictures per species. If you're going to pick a fight with the "mushroom people", please get it into perspective. I would also like to add that, despite being a "mushroom person", I have nominated all sorts of things here. J Milburn (talk) 17:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no fight to pick with the mushroom people. I get some of my best joke material from the constant flow of mushroom articles. Furthermore, I wholeheartedly support any and all sorts of contributors who focus on specific topics regardless of whether they are species, politicians, Simpsons (either O.J. or Homer), regions of the world, types of wines, automobiles or what have you. We are all underpaid here and should at least be enjoying what we do. We should not have to work on a liberal arts spectrum of diverse topics just to make people happy. However, I don't think I should be the only person who gets picked on for focusing on a topic.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:19, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not promoted --Jujutacular talk 01:43, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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