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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 18:22:03 31 May 2019 (UTC) [1].

List of Cardiff City F.C. managers

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List of Cardiff City F.C. managers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Kosack (talk) 19:08, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I've given it a complete overhaul in the last week or so to expand, reference and tidy the existing base. I believe this now brings into line with other similar managerial lists. Look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 19:08, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved
*Quick drive-by comment: the photo caption "A photograph of a man with blind (sic) hair" made me chuckle :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:14, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Haha oops, fixed that. Kosack (talk) 05:36, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Even after the fix you still had the alt text showing as the photo caption. I have fixed that for you -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
    • "This chronological list comprises all those who have held the position of manager of the first team of Cardiff City. Each manager's entry includes the dates of tenure and the club's overall competitive record (in terms of matches won, drawn and lost), honours won and significant achievements while under his care. Caretaker managers are included, where known, as well as those who have been in permanent charge." - I would say that this should be immediately above the table, not in the first paragraph of the lead. Obviously this will significantly reduce the lead, but I think it needs beefing up anyway.....
I used the base of this opening explanation from other FLs such as List of York City F.C. managers and List of Birmingham City F.C. managers, both of which have significantly shorter intros as well. Kosack (talk) 09:20, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Those lists were both promoted quite a while ago (nearly 12 years ago in the case of the York one!) and standards have changed over time. I would say that the lead needs to be more of a summary of the whole article, and the above quoted text should be moved to above the table.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: I've moved the opening paragraph to above the table and expanded the lead to a few paragraphs. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 12:19, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • No source for anything before Fred Stewart's arrival
    • positioning of ref 5 looks a little odd - why not at the end of the sentence?
The ref only supports the first half of the sentence. Kosack (talk) 09:10, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • "two years after the cup triumph, Cardiff were" - earlier you had "In 1920, Cardiff was elected" - so is it singular or plural? - fixed
    • "Spiers had previously been assistant manager under Frank Buckley at Wolverhampton Wanderers but his move to Cardiff was his first managerial appointment" - no source
    • "wages during Wartime" - wartime is not a proper noun, doesn't need a capital
My phone autocorrect keeps insisting on a capital for some reason, that one slipped through the net. Kosack (talk) 09:15, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The board were able to persuade Spiers to rejoin the club and he led a side built around players brought through by his youth system to the First Division in 1952." - no source
    • "Morris claimed his only silverware during the 1955–56 season by winning the Welsh Cup but was unable to prevent the club's relegation from the First Division the following year." - no source
    • "He left the club in 1958 to manage Swansea Town and was replaced by his assistant Bill Jones who had previously managed Barry Town and Worcester City. Jones led the team back to the First Division in 1960 where they spent two years before being relegated." - no source for any of that
    • "winning the Welsh Cup, a feat he achieved seven times during his tenure." - no source
    • "He led the team to the semi-final of the competition during the 1967–68 season," - as the most recent competition referred to was the Welsh Cup, this reads like that is the competition being referred to, when it clearly isn't - fixed
    • "However, O'Farrell departed after 158 days in charge after being appointed manager of the Iran national side." - no source
    • "First team coach Jimmy Andrews took over as caretaker manager......becoming the youngest manager in the club's history at 34."- no source for any of that
    • "Morgan was moved into a general manager role" - no source
    • "In March 1984, he left the club after being offered the managerial role at Sunderland. " - no source
    • "Alan Durban....replaced by Frank Burrows who won promotion in his second season" - no source
    • There's clearly a pattern emerging here where large chunks of the text are unsourced. Perhaps you could go through and check/fix the sourcing and I'll then complete the review? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:31, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: Hi, all of the information above is sourced to the ref that immediately follows it. Rather than finish every sentence with the same ref, the ref is listed once it stops providing info or there is a paragraph break. Kosack (talk) 09:08, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments from ChrisTheDude

  • "manager Jimmy Scoular reached the semi-final of the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup in 1968" - the team reached the semis, not the manager
  • "successive relegations to the Fourth Division under Alan Durban" - were they twice relegated to the Fourth Division (which the wording implies), or were they relegated twice and ultimately wound up in the Fourth?
  • "the outbreak of World War II saw" - the outbreak of a war doesn't have eyes. I suggest using "led to"
  • "Burrows moved on in 1989 after leaving" - last two words are probably redundant
  • "Cardiff finished 22nd during the end of his first season" - I've lost track of which division they were in at this point so might be worth re-stating it
  • In two of the notes, the word "both" is redundant
  • Not a quality query, but just a query - what the heck was the Century Cup? I've never heard of it. Is it actually significant enough to mention?
  • Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: Thanks for the further comments, I believe I've amended all of the issues raised. Kosack (talk) 19:48, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • I love the lead image of Colin, especially with the recent internet memes of him leering at the camera... Joy,.
If only there was a free version of that image floating around. Kosack (talk) 21:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "professional football club" could just expand that football out for the avoidance of doubt to association football, after all the majority of our readers aren't clued up enough to understand this isn't a gridiron club... - Done
  • Who or what (committee?) managed the club before it turned professional? Probably should be noted in the lead and included in the table. - Reworded
I wouldn't be able to provide stats for the committee's time in charge from the amateur Welsh Leagues so it would result in a blank row really. Is that still worth including? Kosack (talk) 21:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Whilst some managers (Len Ashurst, Eddie May, Cyril Spiers) have had the job on two occasions." hmm? - Reworded
  • Oddly, I deferred reviewing the Romania in Eurovision Song Contest list based on "flux", and it may be the same when Warnock gets the flick in the next few weeks I guess... who knows?!
  • On a similar note, shouldn't Warnock's last season be included here now it's complete? - Updated
  • "Information correct as of 21 April 2019" I think we need to ensure this is updated as of the end of the 18/19 season. - Updated
  • Ref ->Ref(s). - Done
  • Please use consistent numbers of decimal places for the win %. - Done
  • Mullen and Williams are piped to redirects. - Done

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Apologies for the lateness on seeing to these, slipped my attention somehow but at least Warnock's future has been resolved during that time. I've addressed all of the issues above, let me know your thoughts. Kosack (talk) 21:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from NatureBoyMD

  • Lead: "In the 1960s, Cardiff began competing in European competition..." The "competing"/"competition" repetition is a little clunky. How about something like, "In the 1960s, Cardiff entered European competition..."? - Done
  • Lead: Link the first instances of "caretaker managers" and "managers". - Done
  • 1939–1995: "Spiers had previously been assistant manager under Frank Buckley at Wolverhampton Wanderers but his move to Cardiff was his first managerial appointment." Add a comma after "Wanderers". - Done
  • 1939–1995: "Spiers had agreed to take a cut in wages during wartime but the Cardiff board refused to restore his original wages after the end of the war." Add a comma after "wartime". - Done
  • 1939–1995: "The board were able to persuade Spiers to rejoin the club and he led a side built around players brought through by his youth system to the First Division in 1952." Add a comma after "club". - Done
  • 1939–1995: "He left the club in 1958 to manage Swansea Town and was replaced by his assistant Bill Jones who had previously managed Barry Town and Worcester City." Place commas before and after "Bill Jones".- Done
  • 1995–: "He was unable to prevent the club's relegation from the Premier League and a poor start to the following campaign led to his dismissal in September 2014." Place a comma after "League". - Done
  • Table: Neil Warnock has an extraneous empty cell needing removal. - Done
  • Table: Bill Jones has an honour as "runner-up". All others render this as "runners-up". - Done
  • Table: Fred Stewart, Jimmy Andrews, and Eddie May need their honours changed (for example) from "2 Welsh Cup" to "2 Welsh Cups". - Done
  • References: Several references use title case (ex 3, 37). Others use sentence case (4, 10, 13). The General refs all use title case. They should all use the same style.
Everything else looks good to me. NatureBoyMD (talk) 21:20, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review, made a start on these. Will finish the rest asap. Kosack (talk) 08:34, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@NatureBoyMD: I think I've addressed all of the issues above. Let me know if there is anything else. Kosack (talk) 10:13, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Well done. NatureBoyMD (talk) 12:44, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed; promoting. --PresN 18:22, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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