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Kept

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Casliber via FACBot (talk) 0:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC) [1].

Bart Simpson

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Notified: WikiProject The Simpsons, WikiProject Television, WikiProject Animation, WikiProject Comedy, WikiProject Fictional characters, Gran2, Scorpion0422

Review section

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I am nominating this featured article for review because...The article is obviously outdated and doesn't meet the modern FA criteria. The article went a lot of changes and the prose isn't FA quality already. There are lots of reliable and scholarly sources that need to be updated for the article to be updated + the article uses a lot of low-quality sources and the citations are poorly formatted. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 06:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include currency and sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Considering, @Z1720, Boneless Pizza!, and Sgubaldo: what specifically needs updating? I could fix the citation formatting and low-quality cites. 750h+ 10:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we need to be specific btw? Most of the section looks like you really needs to start from scratch. Its a lot of work, not just updating though. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 16:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Boneless Pizza!: Naming the specific sections that need updating helps others, as interested editors can take a look and see if they agree or disagree. A one-sentence statement about what needs to be updated, or suggestions on what to add, can also help, especially from subject-matter experts who can identify what is missing. Z1720 (talk) 17:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Boneless Pizza!: per Z1720, if you want me to help i'm gonna need a little more than that (i've never worked on a cartoon character before) 750h+ 23:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not expert either at cartoon characters, except at video games. But yeah,at first glance it needs a lot of improvement 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 14:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720, Boneless Pizza!, and Sgubaldo: I'm going to ping @Xeroctic and Pallettown: who seem to be frequent contributors to the project, but otherwise I'm moving towards keep rather than delist (not officially voting now), as aside from the citation formatting, one page needed tag and minor copyedits that could be implemented, the article seems to be in fine shape, aside from the unreliable sources which I can remove and replace (not too much work). I don't see any need to add anything date-related unless he appears in another movie or something extraordinary happens; the article doesn't list many dates (it primarily lists his characteristics and developments) and doesn't need to list every episode he appears in. I'm happy to fix the issues remaining however. 750h+ 13:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
+ the reception section needs to be overhauled and expanded; while the character's design and merchandise section needs to be expanded more. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Boneless Pizza!: sounds easy. Will do once I finish some other work. 750h+ 13:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@750h+ Wow, it seems like all the tough ones look easy at you. You're also pretty quick at gaining more of those brown stars. Wikipedia should be thankful at your work! 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to save the more iconic ones like this and the Notorious B.I.G. because you'd probably rather something never be an FA rather than it being an FA and seeing it get delisted, and so if it's an iconic person that just makes it all the more depressing, which is why i'm trying to stop it 750h+ 13:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like you're not only good at Car articles, interesting. Honestly, I'm also on verge of sending Homer Simpson to FAR soon as I'm maintaining the FAs at WP:Fictional characters asap. Though, I only work RE characters. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Boneless Pizza!: I kind of disagree with the expanding of the design and merchandise ; they both seem well sized. What do you think needs adding? 750h+ 02:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there's more in google news. I think design could be possibly be added a tiny bit. But if you can't find anything, its fine. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's not much information about the character past 2010. The only two sentences I could find were "In "Simpsorama" (season 26, 2014) Bart states his birthday as February 23" and "In 2022, Paste writers claimed that Bart is the 26th best cartoon character of all time". Sgubaldo (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since I was pinged, I will mention that I put the corresponding good topic for delisting a while ago (due to the delisting of Maggie and partially due to this FAR being pending).

Having edited this article occasionally, I am mostly making minor rewordings and doing redirect maintenance rather than writing content. There has been a little noteworthy coverage in recent years that could be added, such as the character's non-canon 11th birthday, which could warrant a brief mention in the article (but I am unsure where it would be most suitable). Xeroctic (talk) 14:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some additional comments after a quick review:
  • "In "The Blue and the Gray", Bart (along with Lisa and Maggie) finally questions why his hair has no visible border to separate head from hair." is uncited. I'm not sure it is necessary in the article: if it is, the explanation should be included.
  • In "Hallmarks" there's an entire paragraph devoted to Bart's nude scene in the Simpson's Movie. Is this really a Hallmark if it happens once, or perhaps its just fancruft and can be removed.
  • "Groening, Matt (October 28, 2010)." is listed in the Bibliography but is not used as an inline citation.
I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 15:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That image, according to the file discussion page, is meant to depict two hallmarks; skateboarding at (at least partial) nudity, as well as depicting a notorious scene from The Simpsons Movie, so I think it could stay as it is. Xeroctic (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, should the discussion about that image be listed at WP:FfD, since you removed it and may be considering replacing it? Xeroctic (talk) 12:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with Xeroctic, most of the paragraph discusses the skateboarding scene. 750h+ 12:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restored. Anyway, the article looks good now. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 12:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720: do you have any comments? 750h+ 16:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no concerns after a quick skim. If I find time, I will take a closer look but would not be bothered if this is declared keep beforehand. Z1720 (talk) 03:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep- No major issues and concerns have been addressed and fixed. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 04:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FAR coordinators: with three keep votes and one editor who currently has no concerns and would not be bothered if this were closed, can we close this? I'd like to get this on WP:TFAR for April 1 as his birthday. Thanks. 750h+ 08:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
April 1st is also April Fools' Day, when a more humorous featured article is often featured (but not always), but due to the subject being a well-known fictional prankster, I think it could count. Xeroctic (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know, and that's part of the reason why 750h+ 09:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 8:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC) [3].

Mariah Carey

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Notified: SNUGGUMS, Heartfox, WikiProject Mariah Carey, [diff for talk page notification]

Review section

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I have nominated the article for TFA, but it was unsuccessful. It stated: "article would not pass FAC in current state. Suggest waiting until 60th birthday (which is a more notable anniversary than 55th) to re-run the article as TFA, after which improvements would have been made." On the talk page, I asked for article issues, but no response was made in the past 2 weeks. Please take your time to review and I would like to address the article's concerns. ScarletViolet (talk • contribs) 00:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE March 23, 2024 This FAR has been reopened and please take your time to re-review this featured article. According to Heartfox, some of the article's sources are not high-quality reliable.

@ScarletViolet: As was noted in the TFA discussion, if there is to be an FAR for this article, specific concerns have to be identified on the article's talk page as a first step - I don't see that that was done? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: There are some concerns in the article, like it does not follow some of the Manual of Style. Featured articles follow all style guidelines. ScarletViolet (talk • contribs) 00:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but were these concerns raised on the article talk page? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. ScarletViolet (talk • contribs) 04:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So let's do that first. This will be on hold for the moment to give that a chance to happen. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ScarletViolet, I do not see that you have posted to the talk page - are you still intending to move forward with the review process? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: You say so. This has been reopened. ScarletViolet (talk • contribs) 10:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the benefit of reviewers, I'm going to copy Heartfox's comment from the talk page here: "Mainly issues with WP:FACR 1c, and probably others would take issue with 1a. There are some websites that aren't high-quality sources for a biography (or really anything) like TheThings, Fame10, Nicki Swift, Daily Mirror, Gossip Cop, Daily Express, etc. Also, the most significant scholarly work on Carey (Why Mariah Carey Matters by Andrew Chan) isn't cited, as are two recent academic book chapters (ISBN 978-1538169063 and ISBN 978-1-5013-6825-7)." Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move to FARC, it looks like the sourcing definitely needs some work. Hog Farm Talk 23:38, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll at least start work on citations within the next 24 hours, though with regards to linking terms, I thought it was common practice to only link the first one to use a term and that subsequent uses of that publication didn't need linking per WP:OVERLINK. From a glance at this version of the page, it would for example mean The New York Times is just linked in ref#5 and Toronto Star in ref#27. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE it looks like all the subpar sources have been removed, and I've linked some more terms. Before I make additional changes with linking (or lack thereof) for publications used more than once (such as multiple MTV News or Entertainment Weekly articles), does anybody know for certain whether it's expected to be a first-mention-only or all-instances ordeal? SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SNUGGUMS: It depends on what you choose. Would suggest that improvements should made in due time, otherwise its status will be gone. ScarletViolet 💬 📝 12:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's no hurry; typically an FAR stays open as long as there are people willing to work on it. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE: The sections too are very long, unlike the Regine Velasquez and Taylor Swift articles, which are very concise and short. Consider splitting it into subsections in a similar fashion to The Beatles and BTS. Improving while its FA status is active not enough. Would suggest removing the status first, then once the article meets the FA criteria, then the article can be ready for re-promotion. ScarletViolet 💬 📝 01:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not be so hasty; I've cleaned out lots of duplicate links from the article body and Heartfox has helped me in improving citations. How much splitting would be adequate? In the meantime, I also have touched up some of the prose. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE: I boldly went ahead with some splits and here is what the article looks like afterwards. Hopefully it's a step in the right direction. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SNUGGUMS: You're right. Let's think positive, not negative, shall we? I'm also planning to write major changes in the sandbox first before revamping it in the article itself. This time, I would also split Carey's cultural status to its own article: like Cultural impact of Mariah Carey. Title follows other articles like Cultural impact of Michael Jackson, Cultural impact of Madonna, Cultural impact of Taylor Swift, Cultural impact of BTS, etc. ScarletViolet 💬 📝 11:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bad idea at all. Before you implement the sandbox changes, please do show what they look like. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 11:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article looks savable to me, and there does not seem to have been any substantial change in Carey's career that would require it to go through a complete rewriting. Can you guys catch me up on what specifically still needs doing here, ScarletViolet and SNUGGUMS?--NØ 04:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Except for perhaps expanding on legacy (debatable how much should be added), I can't think of much else to do with the page now. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I will shortly do research for any stuff that needs adding there; in the meantime, I feel comfortable putting a keep here.--NØ 10:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing, and I'll also say keep as FA. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MaranoFan and SNUGGUMS: Sorry about not being able to improve the article. I was busy working on other articles, but would agree with your decisions to keep. ScarletViolet tc 09:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • All three sources you mentioned have been taken out. As for academic work, I personally am not sure which text should be attributed to those that isn't already, but am open to hearing others' thoughts. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Requesting the whole book at Resource Exchange isn't feasible so page numbers or at least which topics from the new academic work need to be added is required information. Without that, the mere existence of the new work is non-actionable and thus not alone grounds for delisting. No problems with getting some more reviews on this, though.--NØ 20:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update: The recent academic works are now cited within the article. The Chan book does get overly into detail into individual songs but that is best suited for the Cultural Impact, Public Image, or individual song and album articles. I have pulled his opinions for the relevant sections of this article where his personal opinions are relevant.--NØ 14:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I am a bit doubtful if indefinitely keeping this open is going to attract the review of a non-Carey fan. Hog Farm, by any chance do you have the time and interest to review it now? As it will probably receive increased attention during Christmas, it would be neat if the article's status was settled by then.--NØ 23:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Real life is very hectic for me. I would be willing to read through this but it would have to be the week after Thanksgiving at the earliest. Hog Farm Talk 00:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, some thoughts here:

  • The "Songbird Supreme" moniker is only found in the lead and isn't actually sourced anywhere
  • "The music video for the album's lead single, "Honey", her first since separating from Mottola, introduced a more overtly sexual image." - this comes across oddly, as her marriage to Mottola hasn't been mentioned at all in the body of the article up to this point
  • "(Ashanti had topped the chart in 2002 while being a featured singer on the number two single)." - is there a link for Ashanti?
  • "Carey is second only to The Beatles, who have twenty number-one singles. " - is this still the case?
  • "Though it debuted at number five on the Billboard 200, it became her lowest-selling album to date and ultimately was her final release with Epic Records; she quietly left the label sometime in 2019" - I can't find this in the cited source
  • "On November 6, 2024, Carey will embark on the "Mariah Carey's Christmas Time" tour, set to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Merry Christmas" - the tense is a bit of an issue now, but just changing to the past tense isn't great because this source is from several months before the tour started
  • " Since 2019, she has recorded a video every year to declare "it's time".[373]" - For one thing, this source doesn't support '23 and '24, and also, this seems rather trivial
  • "referred to by Carey as "Sing Sing"[425] (alluding to her feeling imprisoned there" - link Sing Sing? I'm not sure how many non-Americans will get the reference

This is in pretty good shape except for the above, although I will note that this is not my preferred style of music at all, which would be represented by things such as Turnpike Troubadours' "The Bird Hunters" and Chris Knight's "Framed". Hog Farm Talk 03:50, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Made some edits with a view to solving these issues. Carey is still second to the Beatles for the Billboard record, I believe, but she has added another number-one since, with "All I Want for Christmas Is You" (which is going number one again this week...) I appreciate you taking out time to review such a big article.--NØ 17:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should keep FA status for this article. Hog Farm Talk 21:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

Delisted

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 8:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) [4].

Trembling Before G-d

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Notified: Dev920, WikiProject Film, WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, diff for talk page notification (2024-10-16)

Review section

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The article is now in either so-so shape or worse (but still probably no longer FA-quality). Some statements may need to be verified by reliable sources. The merger with the poorly-shaped soundtrack article worsened the parent film article's quality. The Reception section needs probably either some balance or more opinions of non-religious critics. A few years after raising my concerns, not much has been done to address my concerns. George Ho (talk) 05:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC); edited, 21:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. A very old (2007) FA that is underdeveloped by modern standards. The "Synopsis" section consists of listy and stubby paras, and the "Legacy" section is about reissues rather than critical analysis or influence. Very heavy lifting needed per George (initial concerns raised in 2021), although the original nominator is still active. Ceoil (talk) 07:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and comprehensiveness. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 8:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) [5].

The Hardy Boys

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Notified: WikiProject Children's literature, WikiProject Novels, WikiProject Fictional characters, Ricardiana

Review section

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I am nominating this featured article for review because...This old article isn't written properly. Some of the citations are poorly formatted, for example. the lack of authors and etc. + There are several unsourced statements and too many quote tables + It needs some updates for books and video game appearances + the books, in-other media (should be converted into prose written style, not lists), comics, and especially the video game sections are a mess + Thematic analysis and reception could be expanded. Overall, it needs some love to meet its current FA standard. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 06:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From a cursory read, the quote tables do certainly seem a bit odd. They don't provide much context for the work for someone not familiar, and they don't (at first glance) support the content in the text in an obvious way... added captions to put the quotes in context might help. Some parts ("It has been a matter of disagreement regarding the treatment of minorities in the books.") seem like they would fit better in a criticism or reception section. Caleb Stanford (talk) 16:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and organization. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 8:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) [6].

Tom Swift

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Notified: Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature, Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels, Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters, NDfan173, Ricardiana

Review section

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I am nominating this featured article for review because...This old FA article suffers from a lot of sourcing issues. Most of the citations aren't formatted properly, for example. the lack of authors, dates of articles, etc. + the usage of unreliable sources such as ref 53, ref 56, and possibly more + there are a lot of unsourced statements and citation needed tags + the depiction of race section is barely standing with that short content in there + the cultural influence section should definitely be expanded in order for the article to meet the current FA standard. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and comprehensiveness. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 8:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) [7].

Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)

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Notified: User:I.M.S. [8], WikiProject Albums, [9], WikiProject Rock music, [10]

Review section

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I am nominating this featured article for review because... the article no longer meets the FA criteria in its current state. An old FA from 2010, there are citation needed tags, not enough critical reviews, unsourced sections (personnel), and some questionable sources (kindakinks.net). – zmbro (talk) (cont) 20:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Personnel doesn't inherently need a source; per WP:PERSONNEL, "Similar to the track listing requirements, it is generally assumed that a personnel section is sourced from the liner notes. In some cases, it will be necessary to use third-party sources to include performers who are not credited in the liner notes."
Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 21:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zmbro: Let me see what I can do to save this article. Doesn't look too bad (I say before I inevitably discover a shitshow behind the scenes). Famous Hobo (talk) 21:43, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notifying Tkbrett in case he's interested. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping zmbro. I will be passing on this one though. Tkbrett (✉) 14:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: Sorry for the delay, been on a long work trip. I do intend to continue working on this article. Famous Hobo (talk) 02:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Famous Hobo, any update on status here? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and comprehensiveness. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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