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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 12 January 2023 [1].

Shannon Lucid

[edit]
Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the astronaut Shannon Lucid. She is the last of the original six NASA women astronauts chosen in 1978 to fly, and the last to be nominated at FAC. I would like to thank all the editors who participated in reviews of the other five - Kusma (talk), Wehwalt (talk), Dugan Murphy (talk), Balon Greyjoy (talk), Figureskatingfan (talk), PresN (talk), Z1720 (talk), HJ Mitchell (talk), SusunW (talk) and JennyOz (talk) - and hope that some of you can find time over the Christmas holidays to review. Best wishes for the season. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

(t · c) buidhe 21:23, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Wehwalt

[edit]
  • What's an exchange crew? Ditto an ASP?
    The ASP or Cape Crusader handles the checkout at KSC. The exchange crew handles the post-flight activities. On missions where the Shuttle landed (or was supposed to) the ASPs handled both. Added text to this effect. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:51, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any info any activities the past ten years?
    She spent the first two years looking after her husband, who had dementia, and died in 2014.[2] She wrote a book about this which was self-published in 2019. She also published one about her experiences on Mir in 2020. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:51, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks good, just a couple of quibbles.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:29, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Pendright

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Lead:

  • She has flown in space five times including a prolonged mission aboard the Russian Mir space station in 1996, and is the only American woman to have served aboard Mir.
    and "Lucid" is the only...
    I think it is okay as it is. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was awarded the Congressional Space Medal of Honor in December 1996, making her the tenth person and first woman to be accorded that honor.
    accorded "this" honor
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • A graduate of the University of Oklahoma, where she earned her bachelor's degree in chemistry in 1963, master's degree in biochemistry in 1970 and PhD in biochemistry in 1973, Lucid was a laboratory technician at the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, from 1964 to 1966, a research chemist at Kerr-McGee, an oil company in Oklahoma City from 1966 to 1968, and a research associate at the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation from 1973 to 1978.
  • She flew in space five times: on STS-51-G, STS-34, STS-43, STS-58, and her mission to Mir, for which she traveled to the space station on the Space Shuttle Atlantis with STS-76 and returned six months later with STS-79.
    Replace one of the three pronouns referring to Lucid with "Lucid"
    Um, okay. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was the NASA Chief Scientist from 2002 to 2003, and served as capsule communicator (CAPCOM) at the Mission Control for numerous Space Shuttle missions, including STS-135, the final Space Shuttle mission.
    and "Lucid" served as
    Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Early Life:

  • They moved to Lubbock, Texas, and then settled in Bethany, Oklahoma, the family's original home town, where Wells graduated from Bethany High School in 1960.[5]
    hometown is one word
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She sold her bicycle to buy a telescope so she could look at the stars,[6] and began building her own rockets.
    Change one of the four pronouns to the subjects name
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shortly after graduating from high school, she earned her private pilot's license with instrument and multi-engine ratings and bought an old Piper PA-16 Clipper that she used to fly her father to revival meetings.
    Same as above
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Selection and training:

  • Water survival training was conducted with the 3613th Combat Crew Training Squadron at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida and parasail training at Vance Air Force Base in Oklahoma.[23]
    Describe some of what the training included
    There's a long description in the NASA Astronaut Group 8 article. How much detail do you want? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    <>Just a range would provide readers with some notion as to what the traning included. Pendright (talk) 16:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • On August 31, 1979, NASA announced that the 35 astronaut candidates had completed their training and evaluation, and were now officially astronauts, qualified for selection on space flight crews.
    Describe some of what the evaluation included
    Although NASA calls it "evaluation", there are few tests or grades as such. You have to pass the swimming and survival courses. The Ascan concept was introduced after one of the astronauts selected in 1967 quit after not being able to learn to fly. But not until 2018 would an Ascan quit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
<>Okay! Pendright (talk) 16:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

STS-51-G:

STS-34:

  • The January 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster later that month brought Space Shuttle operations to a halt while NASA conducted investigations, soul-searching and remediation.
    Add a comma after soul-searching
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • One casualty of the disaster was the Galileo project, an unmanned probe to Jupiter, which lost both its launch window and its ride, through the cancelation of the Shuttle-Centaur project.[43]
    Replace comma through with "due to"
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • As this was much less powerful than the Shuttle-Centaur upper stage, Galileo had to employ gravity assists from Venus and Earth, and took six years instead of two to reach Jupiter.[45]
    and "it" took six years
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

STS-43:

STS-58:

  • The techniques developed were intended to be precursors of those to be conducted on the Space Station Freedom, and a preliminary to long-duration space flights.
    "Any" techniques developed
    Not sure what is asked for here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
<>The two sentences that preceede this one specak to a flight yet to happen. But this one, the third sentence, says - "The techniques developed were intended"? Confusing, at least to this reader. Pendright (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Re-phrased. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 17:49, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shuttle-Mir:

Awards and honors:

  • Lucid was awarded the Congressional Space Medal of Honor in December 1996 (for her mission to Mir), making her the tenth person and first woman to be given that honor.[74]
    "this" honor
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss)

@Hawkeye7: Finished - Pendright (talk) 00:59, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

<>I've left some responses to yours that need to be cleared up. Pendright (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support this nomination, Pendright (talk) 00:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Balon Greyjoy

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Article looks in good shape! Here are my comments:

  • Convert templates don't use US spelling of kilometers.
    Added sp=us cards Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "only American woman to have served aboard Mir" Maybe say "stayed aboard" instead? Served aboard sounds like a navy assignment.
    Sounds good. Other American women had been aboard Mir, but Lucid was the only one who stayed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "bought an old Piper PA-16 Clipper that she used to fly her father to revival meetings" What defines the aircraft as "old"? It seems like it's only 11 years old at the time that she purchased it.
    It is the term used in the source. I have changed it to "used". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personal opinion, but I think the information about Kawai Dawn's naming is trivia and doesn't need to be included.
    I have my reasons for this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Water survival training was conducted with the 3613th Combat Crew Training Squadron at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida and parasail training at Vance Air Force Base in Oklahoma." I don't have the source material, but it seems unlikely that parasail training was at Vance AFB when there are no bodies of water around it.
    Parasailing training was performed at Vance until 2007. See UPT class performs last parasailing training at Vance Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Wow; did not know that. When I went through SERE they had recently ended training at NAS Pensacola, and I figured it had been there for a long time. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 13:34, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She was at Edwards Air Force Base with the exchange crew for the landing of the STS-5 mission in November 1982. The exchange crew took over from the flight crew after they had landed, and handled the post-flight activities." I'm assuming she was a part of the exchange crew, especially when a later sentence says that she was one again a member of the exchange crew? This reads like she was there in addition to the exchange crew.
    Changed to "as a member" to avoid this interpretation. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a devout Christian, she had no love for Saudi Arabia and the way it treated women, nor for Islam." Couple changes here: 1). "No love for Saudi Arabia" is a bit of a figure of speech, maybe something like "she disagreed with the Saudi Arabian government's treatment of women" 2). As strict Christian beliefs also consider men to be superior to women, I don't think her values should be prefaced with "As a devout Christian" if the issue was predominantly the mistreatment of women. Assuming that Lucid does not harbor Islamophobic beliefs, I think it's a mischaracterization to include that she does not like an entire religion.
    It isn't a mischaracterisation. For Lucid's religious views, see No Sugar Added. Re-organized this a bit to make it clear that there are two aspects. Also, if you're going to understand Christianity, you need to take on board the reconciliation of contradictory concepts.
    I think your new version is much better. If she had/has anti-Islamic views, I think it's fine to include that in the article, but I'm glad it is more explicitly stated in your newer change. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 13:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When the rest of the crew arrived in Riyadh, her absence was noted. This prompted a call from King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to President Ronald Reagan, and Lucid was put on the next flight to Saudi Arabia. She shook hands with the king, but stayed for only one day." I would break up these sentences differently, and remove "Lucid was put on the next flight" since I'm assuming that is an exaggeration of how quickly she traveled to Saudi Arabia. Maybe something like "When the rest of the crew arrived in Riyadh, her absence prompted a call from King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to President Ronald Reagan. Soon after, Lucid flew to Saudi Arabia, where she shook hands with the king, but stayed for only one day."
    Changed as suggested. Unfortunately, I don't have the book here. However, here's what the author has to say in an article:

    For her own part, Lucid had no love for the Saudis. After the mission, invited to meet King Fahd, with the rest of the crew, in Riyadh, she refused. “She particularly objected to Saudi treatment of young women and disfigurement,” John Fabian recalled, “and she didn’t want to be a part of that. There was a lot of time and effort spent convincing her otherwise, to absolutely no avail.” When the other astronauts arrived in Riyadh, they were greeted by Al-Saud, whose looked around for Lucid. Her absence did not go down well with the sultan or the king…or with President Ronald Reagan. “Well, the King called the President,” recalled Fabian. “The President called the NASA Administrator. The NASA Administrator called the Johnson Space Center Director…and Shannon was on the next 747!” Lucid may have lost the battle, but she won the war, for she spent barely a day in Saudi Arabia, shook King Fahd’s hand, and returned promptly home.

    — Job? But You’re A Girl!”: The Triumphant Career of Shannon Lucid
    Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Space Shuttle operations to a halt while NASA conducted investigations, soul-searching, and remediation" I would remove "soul-searching" since I think that sounds more intangible than the Rogers Commission and SRB redesign. I would also add that flights were stood down for 32 months/2.5 years to give the reader a better sense of how long the pause was.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any more information on Lucid's role on STS-34?
    Possibly. I don't have my books at the moment so this will have to wait until next week. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:48, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The mission was accomplished in 79 orbits of the Earth" Active voice here? Something like "The mission completed 79 orbits of the Earth..." or "Atlantis completed 79 orbits of the Earth..." Same could be said for the STS-58 section.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Although the mission objectives did not change, the launch date was postponed to July 23, and the orbiter was changed to Atlantis." I feel like delays are pretty normal, so I'm not sure why this begins with "Although the mission objectives did not change" as if that is the expectation.
    Sure. Deleted. Objectives rarely changed, but the details could change, especially if you had to swap shuttles, as each was different. You would think that over the course of 135 launches that they would get fewer holds, delays and scrubs, but this was not the case. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there more information about the STS-58 mission, and Lucid's role? The paragraph about the mission is shorter than the one about crew selection. The only mention of Lucid is that she was on the crew and how long she spent in space.
    Possibly. I don't have my books at the moment so this will have to wait until next week. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:48, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The prospect of a long stay on Mir was not one calculated to appeal to most astronauts:" This makes it seem like the intention was to have a program that the astronauts didn't want to volunteer for. Maybe something like "Few astronauts volunteered for the exchange program, as they would be required to learn Russian and train at Star City for a year in order to spend several months..."
    I don't think that phrasing conveys intent, although it was made more difficult than it could have been. I don't think volunteers were called for in the sense that most readers would imagine. I will have to look into this further. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did Bonnie Dunbar and Norm Thagard volunteer for the Shuttle-Mir program? Lucid's quote makes it sound like nobody else volunteered, but then she is in Star City with 2 other astronauts to train.
    I believe Thagard did. I will need to consult Seddon's book about Dunbar. There was one more astronaut involved from memory. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    As I suspected, Dunbar was a "volunteer" only in the Army sense. According to Dunbar:

    I came back from NASA Headquarters the first week in December, and I was actually prepared to enjoy Christmas and do other things. And just shortly before Christmas, my boss, Dave [Leestma] called me in and said, "Bonnie, I need to have you go back up Norm [Norman] Thagard, who's going to fly this first increment." And I said, "When?" And he said, "February." And I said, "Well, I don't know if I'm ready." He said, "I need to have you do this." As far as I'm concerned, Dave practically walks on water. And I grew up the daughter of a Marine, so I don't say normally say no when I'm asked to go do something; it's part of my duty. So I talked to him for a long time about it, and I talked to my husband. "This is the right thing to go do."

    I didn't feel totally prepared, especially in the area of language. I'd taken some Russian before. In fact, I took Russian classes in 1992, and I could read it, sound out the words. I knew the letters and so forth. I wasn't able to really speak it. So I started crash Russian courses just to try to help me prepare.

    Then I met with Mr. Abbey and Dr. Huntoon in a private meeting where we talked about this, and they talked about why they wanted me to go. I expressed my reservations about the language and they felt I could learn the language, that what I brought to the program was my knowledge of the payloads, the science and science operations from my prior 3 flights. I already knew the experiments. I wasn't part of the actual selection committee, but I was part of the planning because we were funding it out of Code U. I knew perfectly well what the program was going to be. And I had some knowledge of these people and had helped advocate cooperate research while I was in NASA Headquarters. So at least I guess they felt comfortable with me going and sticking it out and supporting the program.

  • Include the title of the science-fiction book that Lucid liked.
    Source doesn't say. I'll see if I can find it. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It was The Mirror of Her Dreams by Stephen R. Donaldson. Sounds like quite a potboiler. It has a Wikipedia article, so added and linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would remove the Begley quote about M&Ms; the previous few sentences establish that Lucid wanted American comfort food without that anecdote.
    Sure. Deleted. (M&Ms are comfort food?) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Her helmet became stuck, and technicians had to use pliers and a screwdriver to remove it." I would add some more information about how her helmet was stuck (presumably to the rest of her spacesuit), something like "Her helmet became stuck when she tried to take it off after landing, and she required help from technicians with pliers and a screw driver."
    Are you sure? I would have thought that removing the helmet was the job for the exchange crew. Do you have a source? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies for my poorly phrased suggestion. What I was getting at was that it's not clear what her helmet was stuck to. Starting the sentence with only "Her helmet became stuck" doesn't make it clear if it is stuck to her pressure suit neck ring (what I presume happened) or if it was just stuck somewhere in the orbiter (falling behind a seat, getting wedged into a tight space, etc.). Balon Greyjoy (talk) 13:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would remove the sentence about the Corvette, it seems trivial to include a comment from her son.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would remove the long list of Space Shuttle missions that she worked as the CAPCOM, sine it's the majority of the final 20 or so missions. Maybe just state that she was "the lead CAPCOM for 16 Space Shuttle missions from STS-114 to STS-135, the final Space Shuttle flight."
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be back to add more comments. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 13:07, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's it. Nice work. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 14:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. An interesting life story well told. I made a couple of minor tweaks (spelling and dashes), but that was all I could find on a couple of readthroughs. Nice work. SchroCat (talk) 16:30, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Footnote numbers refer to this version.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All but one struck above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:33, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:58, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by JennyOz

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Placeholder for now... JennyOz (talk) 15:00, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hawkeye, I noticed it's nearly her 80th birthday, what a shame this won't be ready for TFA. Here are my comments...

lede

Early life

NASA career

STS-34

STS-58

CAPCOM

Later life

misc

That's it. Enjoyed reading this bio. JennyOz (talk) 15:32, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jenny, how's it looking now? Gog the Mild (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Gog - I had no ping from Hawkeye and supposed he was not yet ready for me (per "Let me think about this one"). It's looking fine though so I'm happy to s'port. Again I'll say though, it's a pity it won't be TFA in two days time for her 80th birthday. The article currently queued doesn't seem to have a 14 Jan connection? C'est la vie. JennyOz (talk) 11:58, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
JennyOz, that was a pain, but your wish is my command. Done. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:06, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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