Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Harry Murray

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:39, 16 September 2008 [1].

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Harry Murray

Nominator(s): Abraham, B.S.

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe it meets the criteria. It has been passed as GA, and also A-class by the Wikipedia:Wikiproject Military history. I'm open to any further comments on improvement, thanks Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• All images check out fine. —Giggy 03:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
• Sources - what makes http://www.jdark.linkt.com.au/williamhenrymurray.html reliable? (all other links checked out fine) —Giggy 03:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• What leads me to believe that this particular site is reliable is that all of the main facts presented in it are supported by other sources I have. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 04:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

http://www.jdark.linkt.com.au/index.html appears to be a self-published, personal hobby site. Please see WP:SPS and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches. If the facts are supported by other, reliable sources, then those sources could be used instead. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll change the references over to a more reliable source. Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I have now replaced the reference. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Comments Nice job. The article, however, seems to omit the details of his various awards. I don't mean full details, but something more than "he was given this, he was given that." For example, perhaps something along the lines of this change:
  • "During his service with the Americans, the commander of the 27th, Major General John F. O'Ryan, recommended Murray for the United States' Distinguished Service Medal.
  • During his service with the Americans, Murray was recommended for the United States' Distinguished Service Medal by the commander of the 27th, Major General John F. O'Ryan. The D.S.M. is the highest non-valorous military and civilian decoration of the U.S. military. General O'Ryan's recommendation stated that Murray's "...knowledge, activity and fearlessness... assisted materially in the control of the attacking forces".

• I have expanded the information further; mainly I just added what you wrote, with only slight re-wording. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 04:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
• I have also now expanded on his Distinguished Conduct Medal and Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George awards; I think the others were already adequate, if not I'll have a look at them too. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• The WP:LEAD, on the other hand, seems a mite long. I'll think about this for a while and get back to you...

• I agree, and have thought so since I wrote it. I'll see if I can condense it a bit. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 04:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• I have now condensed the lead some what now, and think it should be right. If not, I can have another look and reduce it further. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 03:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
• PS Your {{Harvnb}}s aren't playing well with your {{Citation}}s. Links don't work, since the former is linking to CITEREFFrankiSlatyer2003 and the latter to CITEREF_Franki_Slatyer_2003. Will look into this. Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 04:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• Wtmitchell has fixed the problem and they work well now. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 04:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "Becoming a No. 2 on a machine-gun, he served during the Gallipoli Campaign where he was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal, before the withdrawal from the peninsula." Issues:
  • I don't think machine gun should be hyphenated. This is something I see throughout the article.

• I originally didn't have them hyphenated, but the copyeditor's whose help I enlisted believed they should be. However, after looking at the machine gun article on WP, I have concluded that it appears they shouldn't be hyphenated, and as such have removed it. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• • There doesn't need to be a comma after Medal but I think there should be a comma after Campaign.

• Fixed

• "Soon after his Victoria Cross action, he was promoted to major, and earned a Bar to his DSO during an attack on the Hindenburg Line near Bullecourt." I'm not familiar with all things military, but should Bar be capitalized?

• Usually I think it can go either way, but most publications have it capitalised. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Article looks very good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Per WP:MSH, should "Repatriation" be uppercase in "Western Front, April 1917 to Repatriation, March 1920"? The word isn't used again in the text (?), so I don't get a sense of why it's used as a proper noun. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• Fixed. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: Image:VCHenryWilliamMurrayGrave.jpg - "migrated from the Victoria Cross Reference site with permission". How can we verify this permission? How can we contact Terry Macdonald? See WP:IUP. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 03:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• See Victoria Cross Reference migration. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: One thing people sometimes overlook is that information in notes also needs to be supported by citation. Your long note on the discrepancies of his year of birth is unreferenced. One method used by historians to cite within footnotes is to use a parenthetical citation in the note, something like: "According to Franki & Slatyer (p. 3), his birth certificate states 1 December 1880", which is a simple fix. Personally, I think that this footnote would be better placed next to the birth date in the "Early life" section rather than in the lead, where it distracts and (on the screen I'm viewing right now) causes the dates to wrap in an unsightly way. —Kevin Myers 13:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Fixed. Note moved and reference added. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support; taking a section at random the prose is of a high quality, and the article appears to meet all other standards. Giggy (talk) 00:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support I first came across this article at Milhist A-Class review, when it passed muster, and see the prose has been massaged and improved since then. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 12:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
• Support. Excellent article that meets the criteria. Cla68 (talk) 08:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.