Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diocemy Saint Juste

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 13:21, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Diocemy Saint Juste

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Does not meet WP:NCOLLATH or WP:NGRIDIRON. The extent of his professional football career was a tryout with the Jacksonville Jaguars [1]. In college, he did not win any national awards or attract significant, non-trivial national media coverage as a player.

However, he has been the subject of a profile by the Reporter-Herald in Loveland, Colorado previewing a Colorado State football game, "CSU football faces a throwback runner in Hawaii's Diocemy Saint Juste". The Honolulu Star-Advertiser, the largest newspaper in Hawaii, had a story in 2017, "Saint Juste sets carries record", reporting that Saint Juste broke his college team's single-season rushing attempts record. He also was eighth in all of NCAA D1 FBS in rushing yards per game. However, even those records are not enough for NCOLLATH notability. Arbor to SJ (talk) 17:44, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

~~:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)~~[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. It is long established that WP:NCOLLATH is an inclusionary standard and that college players who satisfy WP:GNG may also be included. Saint Juste was one of the leading rushers in college football's Division I FBS with > 1,500 yards in 2017. He received coverage in multiple reliable sources and thus passes under GNG. Regardless of whether he makes it in the NFL, he has clear notability from his college career. Cbl62 (talk) 18:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A search of NewsLibrary.com turns up over 1,000 hits. A tiny sampling of the significant coverage includes: (1) "Saint Juste invited to NFLPA Collegiate Bowl", Honolulu Star Advertiser, 1/3/18; (2) "Saint Juste named 'Bows MVP at Waterhouse Memorial Football Awards Banquet", KHON, 11/26/17; (3) "Saint Juste, Hawaii beat San Jose State, snap 4-game skid", USA Today, 10/15/17; (4) "Saint Juste rises amid Hawaii slide", Hawaii Tribune Herald, 10/13/17; (5) "CSU Rams bracing for Hawaii RB Diocemy Saint Juste", Loveland Reporter-Herald, 9/26/17; (6) "Saint Juste runs for 202 yards, Hawaii tops Western Carolina", Chicago Daily Herald, 9/3/17; (7) "Big finish for Saint Juste" Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 12/25/16; (8) "Saint Juste has a plan for staying on the field to help the Warriors", Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 8/6/16; (9) "UH RB Saint Juste Too Strong for His Body" Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 8/3/16; (10) "Warriors' Saint Juste now up to speed, Everything's coming naturally for running back Diocemy Saint Juste in Hawaii's new but familiar offensive system", Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 8/7/15; (11) "Saint Juste eager to run with it, Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 8/23/14; (12) "Saint Juste on right track", Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 4/13/14; and (13) "Santaluces running back Diocemy Saint Juste verbally commits to Hawaii", Palm Beach Post, 1/15/13. Cbl62 (talk) 19:23, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The stories about his verbal commitment from high school and making the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl are WP:ROUTINE news coverage for many high school/college football players, many of whom do not meet Wikipedia notability standards. Also, being the MVP of a Division I team is not a sign of notability. Some of those stories (like the Western Carolina one) concern the team more than just Saint Juste. Arbor to SJ (talk) 20:46, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that you will find that many of those examples are actually WP:NOTROUTINE. Sure, some are by nature, but others provide more detail than we find for the typical college athlete and far surpasses the standards set in WP:ROUTINE for sports of "sports scores" -- further, WP:ROUTINE references specifically the notability of events and not people.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:57, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

While many of the articles of the 1,000+ articles I found are routine (e.g., passing mentions in game coverage or mere transactional announcements), many others represent significant coverage with details of Saint Juste's life and accomplishments. The 13 items selected above are but a few of the examples of significant coverage. The essential truth, I suspect, is that any running back who ranks among the top 10 rushers (among several hundred running backs in Division I FBS) in a given year will be the subject of significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources. There are plenty of border-line cases where notability is doubtful, but this is not one of them. Cbl62 (talk) 21:22, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My concern with the selection of articles above is that the articles which demonstrate WP:SIGCOV are all local sources, the ones that are national sources are routine reporting of upcoming games or AP news reports which are about as "routine sports scores" as they come. WP:NCOLLATH specifies national media attention, and I don't see this at all (the Florida article is because he was local to Florida at the time of writing.) SportingFlyer talk 06:19, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find anything in WP:SIGCOV that disqualifies "local" sources. The word "local" does not even appear on the page.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm looking specifically at WP:NCOLLATH and WP:NGRIDIRON. SportingFlyer talk 14:50, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The introductory language of those two sub-guidelines is clear that they are inclusionary and not exclusionary: "Failing to meet the criteria in this guideline means that notability will need to be established in other ways (e.g. the general notability guideline, or other, topic-specific, notability guidelines)." Cbl62 (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree, this is a case of a clear pass of WP:GNG. Nice research!--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:35, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Cbl. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:34, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NCOLLATH, WP:GRIDIRON. Did not receive non-routine national coverage as a college athlete, the only mentions of him in non-Hawaii newspapers were in regards to previews of upcoming games or AP recap stories. Agree with the WP:ROUTINE reasoning. SportingFlyer talk 05:01, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per argument made by Cbl. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Meets WP:GNG and WP:BASIC, per Cbl62. Ejgreen77 (talk) 02:02, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep GNG takes precedence over NGRIDIRON and other topic-specific notability guidelines. Lizard (talk) 23:53, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.