User talk:Wjemather/2021

Australian Order of Merit

This is the earliest article I've seen where the Order of Merit is referenced. It is from May 1985 and also refers to the 1983 Nedlands Masters as an OoM event. Thought it may be of some use.

Happy New Years, Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)Ooggylwoogly

Japan Golf Tour 2020/21 season?

Hey, I was looking on the JGTO website earlier today and noticed that they released dates of fixtures of 2021 tournaments. I wasn't sure however if this is a continuation from the 2020 season i.e. making it the 2020–21 Japan Golf Tour, as they still have it listed as the 2020 season although this could just be a mistake that needs updating. I would doubt it's a new season separate from 2020 however. Link here: [1] Jimmymci234 (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi. You could be right and they have rolled it into 2 year season. I'll see if I can find anything tomorrow. Interestingly, The Open list the 2020 JGT Official Money List as cancelled on their updated criteria for RSG. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 23:10, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Yep, here is the announcement (in Japanese). "The Japan Golf Tour Organization (JGTO), which is in charge of men's golf, announced the tournament schedule for the 2021 tour on December 25th. Due to the spread of the new coronavirus infection, the new tournaments for 2021 will be held as the "2020-21 season" by integrating with 2020, which held only 6 events." _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:00, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

2020 CME Group Tour Championship

Funny how the nationalities chart by another editor was harmless since 18 December. I come along and tweak it a little, and suddenly it has to be abolished. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 09:23, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You are aware of the consensus on this. Be assured that if I had noticed it in December, I would have removed it then, but I didn't; your edit simply made it popup on my watchlist again. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 09:29, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Seniors Masters Qualifying

why are you removing this from the snooker season 2020/2021 ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.209.218 (talk) 21:13, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Why are you not logged in, as per the conditions of your unblock? _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 21:14, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

2020–21 snooker season (emboldening Major Tournaments)

Please engage in having these discussions then, as (as I already mentioned) it's in keeping with other sporting wikipedia pages, and is useful for the viewers. Furthermore, there is a box key at the footer of the table where it can be explained, if that's your concern. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexgriffin81 (talk • contribs) 10:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

@Alexgriffin81: Please start such a discussion. I suggest WT:SNOOKER may be the best venue as a central location, as I presume you are not looking to change the current season article and leave all the others. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:59, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Cricket AfDs

Thanks for your helpful contributions on the various cricket AfDs - a lot of untruths on Wikipedia policies being put forward as poor arguments for deletion. Deus et lex (talk) 10:09, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Timex Open

I've changed the winner of the 1982 Timex Open. See my talk page User talk:Nigej#1982 Timex Open. Not much available it seems on these domestic French PGA events. Nigej (talk) 07:44, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Royal Fremantle Open

I was looking to make a page on this event. The information you have in your sandbox (1977-82) looks pretty good.

I was wondering if the event preceded 1977 however. I have a link that says that Ross Metherell won the 1972 "Fremantle Open." It says it was the third time he won the event.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 00:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Quite possibly; I've not researched it in much depth - I think Nigej may have found most of the linked news reports. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 01:45, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. I would like to bring User: Nigej in this conversation. If you have any information about a pre-1977 Fremantle event please let me know.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

No I've nothing before 1977. I've clipped this https://www.newspapers.com/clip/69245459/the-sydney-morning-herald/ for 1978. The 1982 event seems to have been downgraded. This https://www.newspapers.com/clip/69245755/the-age/ refers to the A$6,000 prize money, compared to the A$35,000 for Halls Head. Seems it was perhaps a tour event from 1977 to 1981 but not outside that period. Difficult to be certain, since we're pretty reliant on the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age in the period. Nigej (talk) 07:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

In fact it's not even clear whether the 1982 event was over 72 holes, could have been only 36. From the ref the 1972 event seems to have been only 36 holes. Nigej (talk) 09:41, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, looks like 1972 event was a completely different tournament. I will only included the late 70s/early 80s stuff for the "Royal" event.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 02:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Just completed a page for the Royal Fremantle Open. After I completed it I found a couple of sources on Trove that antedate the ostensibly inaugural 1977 event. They are here:

In 1971 there was a "Royal Fremantle open championship." The link is here: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202739286#.

In 1975 there was a "Royal Fremantle open golf championship." The link is here: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/116341294.

Keep in mind I already found information about a 1972 event at Fremantle (referenced earlier) so this event may go back to the early 70s.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 03:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

1969 World Cup

Coordinates do not show exactly the relevant course in the small island of Singapore. That is why I left out the map of Singapore. EEJB (talk) 12:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh right, I didn't check that – I've corrected the coordinates now. Good work adding the maps. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 12:26, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, but think still to much south EEJB (talk) 18:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The issue is with the icon; whereas one might expect the hole to mark the spot, it is actually halfway up the flagstick! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:19, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Actually, there is a different issue. Having moved the coordinates info the infobox, it seems to be displaying ok now. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:26, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Great. This course seems not to have been used for pro tournaments in recent years. EEJB (talk) 19:01, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The flag issue came up awhile back. see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Golf/Archive 5#Royal Porthcawl Golf Club in the sea?, {{Infobox golf facility/testcases}}. Basically File:Icona golf.svg has the hole where you'd expect it. Not quite sure why we're not using it. Forget the details. Nigej (talk) 10:26, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

That's much better. I assume that would not be a controversial change to the infobox templates? _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:30, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Can't see much of an issue, although perhaps not quite as bold as the other. See {{Infobox individual golf tournament/testcases}} with relief on and off. I've upped the size of the Icona flag from 25 to 40 in these examples, looked a fit feeble with 25. Nigej (talk) 11:26, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Looks good to me; but perhaps a little smaller. Can you make the change? _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 12:26, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Changed to 35. Nigej (talk) 12:43, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

That should do it. Thanks. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

2020/21/22 Sunshine Tour??

According to their website the 2020/21 season consisted of the 11 events in 2020; finishing at the South African Open. The events starting from next week are part of the 2021/22 season according to their website. I even checked the Money Lists and it says that Christiaan Bezuidenhout won the 2020/21 Order of Merit? I never heard anything about this. Would you have any knowledge about this new split season? Thanks. Jimmymci234 (talk) 12:32, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

My guess would be that they are simply reverting to the pre-Covid March–February scheduling. I'm not seeing any official announcements or reports on the change though. And also nothing about Bezuidenhout winning the OoM, which seems odd. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, seems like a strange one. I would say to probably just keep the season the way we have it here for now until there is confirmation of anything different. Jimmymci234 (talk) 14:37, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

ANI

Could you please link the 2017 RFC in your comment at ANI. This will allow other editors to find in and better understand your comment. Mjroots (talk) 08:42, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I had meant to do that. Done now. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

New Zealand/Australian circuit OoM

Just found this link that references an Order of Merit on the New Zealand/Australian circuit in 1964. Specifically, it references something called the "BP bonus competition." Not sure if it would be of interest...

Oogglywoogly (talk) 03:17, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Thanks. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 23:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Hong Kong Open citations

I just added web citations for most of Hong Kong Open events. However, still remaining are older references citing the South China Morning Post without a link. I was thinking about deleting them but wasn't sure of the protocol. Do we prefer citations with links?

Oogglywoogly (talk) 03:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hi. Yeah, there is no requirement for any sources to be available online, but it's obviously easier for verification purposes if they are. Personally, I'd say replacing them is unnecessary extra work. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 23:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes in general it would take too long to replace these citations if a lot of pages were like this. However, this was the only page I've seen on WikiProject Golf with an excessive amount of text citations. Anyway, I just deleted them. Thank you for your help.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

earlier Malayan Opens?

It states in this link that a man named Fred Turner won the 1960 Malayan Open. In the same article it states that a man named N.A. Harvey won the same event in 1957.

Turner's win is also referenced here and here.

Not sure if it is the same event as the Malayan Open (e.g. Malaysian Open (golf))? On the wiki page it starts with 1962...

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

I've not looked in too much depth, but it seems probable that they are referring to a different, likely amateur, event. Likewise for the "Singapore Open". _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks!

Oogglywoogly (talk) 21:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

/*an example of arbitrary betting site as gamble usa/*

https://gamble-usa.com/arbitrage-betting/ this site shows the example of arbitrary gamble of usa which is an relatable page for the site. How is it an inappropriate?Unish88880 (talk) 13:07, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Unish88880 (talk) 13:04, 5 March 2021 (UTC) } — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unish88880 (talk • contribs) 12:41, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Unish88880: Please read the following: WP:External links (and WP:SPAM). The site links does not meet the criteria, so is inappropriate here. An example of an appropriate link would be to a regulating body or such like. This site is also not appropriate as a reference, because it does not meet the criteria of WP:Reliable sources. Regards. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:12, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Does these links meet the criteria?

https://www.bettingexpert.com/academy/advanced-betting-theory/arbitrage-betting http://www.topbettingreviews.com/arbitrage-betting-asian-handicap/ https://www.profitaccumulator.co.uk/what-is-arbing-or-arbitrage/ Unish88880 (talk) 13:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Unish88880: No. They are all the same. You would need to find something like a renowned industry publication or independent mainstream source. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:51, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

These links are already present in the page then why are they allowed?

https://www.bettingexpert.com/academy/advanced-betting-theory/arbitrage-betting http://www.topbettingreviews.com/arbitrage-betting-asian-handicap/ https://www.profitaccumulator.co.uk/what-is-arbing-or-arbitrage/ Unish88880 (talk) 14:02, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Unish88880: I have removed them all; the topbettingreviews article was cited to an array of 3rd party sources, so I've replaced it with the cited research paper. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:23, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Is there any possible way to get this link on wikipedia? Unish88880 (talk) 14:35, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Unish88880: I cannot see any legitimate reason for inclusion. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

As an External link for arbitrage betting explained? Unish88880 (talk) 14:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Unish88880: No. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:47, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

2021 Players Championship

You’re very good at saying that the field needs fixed but why can’t you fix it yourself? If you think it needs changed then you change it yourself rather than relying on others to do the donkey work for you! Jimmymci234 (talk) 07:07, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

I could, if I wanted to dedicate the time to it, but it is not high on my priority list. More importantly, per my edit summary, the WP:BURDEN of WP:Verifiability is on those seeking to add or restore content. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:27, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh aye of course. But you have the time to volunteer your criticisms. Don't put the burden on others if you're not willing to do anything about it! Jimmymci234 (talk) 11:46, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

(Reverting and) advising about policy (violations) and criticism are two different things. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:56, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

I thought this wasn't high on your priority list? [2] You can't have your cake and eat it. Jimmymci234 (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Reformatting takes less than 2 minutes; re-organising the entire list and cross-referencing criteria was a much bigger job – as you know. I don't know why you are taking this personally, it really isn't. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 15:56, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Kookaburra Sport content/links deleted.

Hi Wjemather,

I am just responding to your comments regarding my editing of the Kookaburra Sport page. I work at Kookaburra sport and was just taking the time to update the information regarding the company on the wikipedia page as there is plenty of missing information. I understand that I may have used several web-links to our page, as that is where all the new information is getting uploaded. We are also recently set up this brand new website and creating brand awareness with our wiki page will be more than useful. I have read through the manual guidelines, and outside of the over-categorisation, I don't see why you have deleted the content. For instance, Kookaburra is the number one ball used for 9 of the 12 cricket playing nations. This is fact.

Could you please get back to me with some ways I can add content without it getting removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dweb91 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Dweb91: Firstly, thankyou for the disclosure. As per our policies (WP:PROMO), Wikipedia is not a promotional tool and as such all that is allowed is a single link to the company homepage – multiple weblinks for marketing purposes are not permitted. Our Manual of Style also strongly advises against inline weblinks.

In addition, content must be neutrally worded and all content must be verifiable and supported by independent reliable sources, i.e. not the company website; claims relating to things like quality, performance, reputation, etc. require multiple unrelated sources and even then may not be acceptable. For example, phrases like "used for 9 of the 12 cricket playing nations" are potentially ok since they may be verified through an independent reliable source, but "the number one ball" is a marketing claim so not acceptable (see MOS:WTW).

Finally, due to your conflict of interest, it is recommended that you suggest changes via the article talk page rather than making them yourself. Regards, _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

masters 2021

shouldn’t gary woodland be listed on the 2021 masters field for his US Open win? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.168.225.22 (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew someone was missing, but just couldn't see who. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 00:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

WGC Match Play

The names being entered onto the tops of each group are only for a few minutes, to have a way to see the names to set the matches. After the matched are put in, the names on top of the groups will be taken out. It is done this way each year. Have a little patience, it will look good when it is finished. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 16:27, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Please do not use the article for temporary draft-like editing. Just unhide the group tables and enter the names there. You can use your sandbox if necessary and copy across. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 16:30, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

"Liaqat Ali (cricketer, born 1987)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Liaqat Ali (cricketer, born 1987). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 24#Liaqat Ali (cricketer, born 1987) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 16:56, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Final 16 bracket

As a courtesy, I thought you might want to know the following information in advance, so you don't get upset when you see it. In the last few years on the WGC Match Play page, we typically would prepare the possible advancing players in the knockout stage by entering an either/or onto the next round (the rounds of 8, 4, and 2) and hiding it temporarily. That way, it makes things much easier to navigate when the time comes, instead of having to fumble around trying to find the proper line to enter information onto. Your cooperation with this would be appreciated. I'll put a link here so you can see what I am speaking of ..... https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2019_WGC-Dell_Technologies_Match_Play&diff=prev&oldid=890107043 Johnsmith2116 (talk) 17:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. That seems to fit just fine with the guidance at WP:HIDDEN to me. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Cricket Lists

Hi mate, thanks for the cricket lists you are creating for different sides, they're very helpful for when redirecting at AfD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 17:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Consensus on the editing of golf articles

Hello. I had previously read the WP:GOLF and I guess you might have "consensus" due to your opinion being there and 1 other guy agreeing with you, that indicated he probably didn't in the past. Maybe a few us "dissenters" should comment there and show a different opinion of Consensus. If you see that a different opinion of consensus is developed on these talk pages and you fall into the minority on consensus, will you quit just simply reverting other people's work? And none of this is personal, but it's tough to watch someone put so much work into something and see you simply blow it up with a quick little reversion and a note saying that it violates Wikipedia standards. Had the standards been violated all these years ago, I presume the articles would have never looked like they did. I think people just don't want to fight a back and forth reversion war, you know? And as a side note, today's 3rd day of the Match Play was INSANE, as I listened to it and I followed it from work. Jeff5768 (talk) 04:19, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

It was discussed very recently at WT:GOLF so it is unsurprising that raising the issue again so soon was going to get much input. If you check the archives at WT:GOLF (and a few other sports wikiprojects, MOS talk pages, and some article talk pages - may they some searching to find) you will find much more discussion on the subject. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:39, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Your message

Leaving a general message on WT:CRIC so that my opinion doesn't get lost within others' pages. Read and noted. Bobo. 11:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Pakistan List-A cricket

Hi mate, you seem reasonable knowledgeable when it comes to Pakistani cricket. I've copied the list of FC/List-A/T20 competitions over to my sandbox to try and come up with a better list of leagues that are presumed notable for coverage. While I think I know what i'm doing with Pakistani FC and T20 cricket I'm not really that clued up on the List-A side and which Pakistani List-A tournaments playing in would likely bring notability, and any dates when presumed notability would begin (such as I have deemed that the FC Quaid-e-Azam Trophy would likely bring notability when it was reformed to 6 teams). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 13:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, I've been trying to get to grips with it but I'm fairly sure there is no easy answer to either FC or LA players. Let me have a think and I'll get back to you. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 19:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks mate, The original list at WP:OFFCRIC lists the first List-A comp as being in 1980/81 which seems late compared to other countries. At the moment I'm leading towards the reformed Pakistan Cup and Quaid-e-Azam cup being notable, but that would mean only comps from 2018/19 onwards would have presumed notability. Let me know if you think the first comp would likely have some presumed notability also, even if it was for a short period. Thanks. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:59, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

There were a few LA comps in the mid-1970s but they only lasted one or two seasons. The Wills Cup in 1980/81 was the first with any longevity. I'll expand my thoughts on player notability later. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:11, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

minor edits.

Sorry about that. I understand now. Thanks Wjemather - I'm slowly learning. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheekychives (talk • contribs) 09:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@Cheekychives: No problem. There are thousands of guidelines, I'm sure you'll pick them up as you go. Keep going! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 17:28, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

John Allen restored

Hi mate, seen that the John Allen Irish cricketer has been restored (for some reason is on my articles created list now). Do you think we should move it to Wallace Allen (cricketer) as that's probably his common name? Rugbyfan22 (talk) 13:20, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd guess that was because you created a redirect following deletion, and the history was merged after the restore. Yes, I've already tagged Wallace Allen (cricketer) with db-move, so hopefully it'll be done soon. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 15:30, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd imagine you're correct as the original page was only 50 bytes apparently. Ok thanks won't move it myself then. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:41, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Federally Administered Tribal Areas cricketers

Hello, you created the List of Federally Administered Tribal Areas cricketers by referencing cricketarchive.com. However I am unable to access the website as it is for paid members only. I wanted to remove Liaqat Ali from the list as it's the only entry without an article, and also because of the multiple requests in Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 24#Liaqat Ali (cricketer, born 1987) to remove it. Do let me know what is mentioned about Liaqat Ali in the cricketarchive, and if possible the exact link. Jay (talk) 17:54, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

The CA link is just a list of players, through which his individual profile is accessible, which contains the same information as this. Best. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:20, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks I have added the reference to the list page. Jay (talk) 07:04, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

List of Links Golf Courses

Hi there. Just wanted to say hello as I note you’ve added and improved a few things on that page.

I added quite a bit of info myself a while back, some of it based on personal knowledge and experience playing these courses, as well as industry knowledge on links.

To improve the page, many of the listed courses will need to be referenced. Some can come from reviews from Top 100 GCs, National Club Golfer, Today’s Golfer, Golf World, Golf Monthly etc, others from articles and the remainder from club websites. This will be a time-consuming project, but I’m happy to do as much as I can.

FYI I actually made many additions to the original list, which was created a few years ago and based on the Peper & Campbell 246 True Links book. It’s a useful starting point, but missed out many genuine links, plus some links/heathland/parkland hybrids, which are common.

I have to this end included clifftop and coastal heathland courses which have links characteristics - sandy, bouncy turf, undulations and sea breezes, coastal grasses such as fine fescues, bents & marram, coastal plantlife such as gorse, broom, heather etc, and also well drained courses close to the sea which have strong links characteristics. Aldeburgh and (previously) Thorpeness are in this category.

Together with leaving in some entries others have made, this has lead to an eclectic mix, which showcases the trie diversity of styles of links and links-like golf. Indeed the Peper & Campbell book included examples of clifftop links (Sheringham) and coastal heathland (Formby, Carnoustie, Panmure). It was from such precedent that I included Thorpeness, which could be reinstated.

All in all, much to discuss and I’d welcome your views. Ross-shire (talk) 12:16, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi @Wjemather:, I request you to share your thoughts on the discussion about requested move of the pages ICC Test Championship, ICC ODI Championship and ICC T20I Championship. Thank you. Selva15469 (talk) 10:42, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Jack Nicklaus GOAT Debate

Hi, you mentioned that consensus was that Nicklaus was not the greatest golfer of all time on the talk page but only 3 people came to that conclusion. In the 4 articles cited, the first had a broken link (will remove), the second said Jack, the third had 3 writers (2 voted for Jack, 1 voted for Hogan), and the fourth article did not have a list.

So of the 4 opinions cited, 3 (75%) said Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer of all time. There are countless lists on the internet from experts not cited on the wiki page and virtually all of them have Jack at #1.

I'm not Jack's son or something but the consensus amongst experts its quite unanimous.

I believe wording should most accurately reflect expert & public opinion, something like... "Jack Nicklaus is widely considered by experts and fans alike one of, if not the greatest golfer who has ever lived."

I will update the wiki page to reflect this wording, if someone more senior for whatever reason does not like this wording, I will accept that and not engage in a revert war.

Problem?

Not sure what your problem is but how do you presume wiki contributors find consensus without voicing their perspectives?

Consensus is arrived at through discussion, not polling. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Caribbean Tour reference

I happened to come across a reliable third-party source that references the three-event 1973 "Caribbean tour." Not sure if it would be of some use.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/80334763/jacklin-skipping-florida/

Best, Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:05, 27 June 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Thanks. Unfortunately that article highlights the difficulty with sourcing the Caribbean Tour in the early 1970s (when the PGA Tour started to abandon it due to it's own expanding schedule) as there were 4 events that year (they've overlooked Los Lagartos in Bogotá, Colombia, which Jacklin went on to win). _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 07:46, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Bangladesh Premier League broadcasting section

I have provided all sources on Bangladesh Premier League broadcasting section you can now check it...thanks MaazRajput123 (talk) 11:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Tallahassee Open

I was looking to make a "Tour" column for this event. However, I don't know the abbreviation for "Tournament Players Series." (Obviously I would expect "TPS" but don't know for sure.) I don't believe OWGR granted this organization points so there is probably no ready-made abbreviation from them. Any help would be appreciated.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:30, 16 July 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

@Oogglywoogly: As you say, we have taken our lead on abbreviations from the OWGR, but many "tours" pre-date the rankings or do/did not award points. As such, "TPS" should be fine as I can't think it will conflict with anything else. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 07:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. There are a couple little lingering issues. The 1986 event is denoted as being part of a "Satellite Tour" but it was really a satellite event on the PGA Tour that year. I think it should be labeled "USA" in the tour column with a citation that denotes it was a "Satellite event."

In addition, there is no overarching source for the Winners table. This strikes me as a wild violation of WP: V. I assume PGATour.com or some site has something?

These same exact problems exist on the also recently edited Chattanooga Classic (PGA Tour) page.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:33, 21 July 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Looking back through the page history, the article was originally sourced with an external link but it was removed (no reason given). It shouldn't be difficult to find citations for these tournaments though. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Playoff notes

Surely if you're willing to keep playoff notes that are more detailed, then shouldn't they be in a separate section? I thought the point of using tables was to summarize information and not go OTT with excessive details. I'm also of the view that having more notes in the table creates more clutter, (less is more sometimes, but that's just my personal take). Jimmymci234 (talk) 19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

It makes sense for the information to be inserted and accessible where it is most relevant. We could have a separate sub-section for playoff details, but that may be a little excessive (undue) and reduce ease/speed of accessing the information for the reader. The notes are not "in the table" but in footnotes, where there is no reason to reduce the detail in order to save space, and the additional details are certainly not excessive (e.g. including type of playoff and any other pertinent details, and not written in shorthand). The notes could easily be moved into a "Notes" sub-section, or a section ahead of the References section, if they are really distracting from the table. If you want to discuss further, I'd suggest the project talk page so a wider consensus can be reached. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 19:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Naming of the New Course

Hi Wjemather,

I am beginning to put together a new article for the New Course at St Andrews. However I would like your opinion as to what to name it. "New Course" is already in use. Therefore in my opinion I have two options:

1. New Course at St Andrews, which is consistent with the Old Course at St Andrews, or
2. New Course, St Andrews (as per naming conventions), in which case to be consistent I would then also need consensus to rename the Old Course at St Andrews to Old Course, St Andrews.

I prefer No. 2, New Course, St Andrews, what do you think? SethWhales ^talk 06:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I think the format of 2 meets naming guidelines; I don't see evidence for 1 being the common name. The Old Course could be moved to Old Course and that is already a redirect. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 07:52, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

TPS tour

I have a link for the 1985 PGA Tour Media Guide. It has a schedule for the 1984 TPS tour. In addition, there should be schedules for the other years in the other media guides.

Basically, I think what you have in your sandbox is pretty good. If you had any reservations about publishing stuff, I think these media guides should resolve any issues. For a reliable source of events, these seem about as good as they get.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:01, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Cazoo Classic

I was looking at the event page for this week’s Cazoo Classic on the ET website. I happened to notice the “History” section and it has listed the editions of the English Open up to 2002. It’s as clear as mud as to how they’re treating this tournament as that is a complete contradiction to when the Cazoo sponsorship was announced. Any thoughts about this and do we need to amend the article again now? Jimmymci234 (talk) 21:43, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

From NCG "The English Open is back for the first time since 2002 in the form of the Cazoo Classic". Guess we either wait and see if it stays that way, or merge. More sources would be good though. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 22:31, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

This from Koobit: [3]. Says Cazoo Classic was formed in 1988 played as the English Open, although does say Sam Horsfield is defending champion having won the Hero Open last year. This is just a mess. Jimmymci234 (talk) 09:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Koobit is not a reliable source; in addition, it looks like that was paraphrased from our English Open article. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 09:32, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh right ok. Jimmymci234 (talk) 10:11, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Seems like the majority of sources I can find are saying it’s the first return of the English Open since 2002. Jimmymci234 (talk) 10:39, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Strong

Okay well... I'm not the reason it won't survive at AfD, so... redirect if it's truly necessary. Worth looking at the other pages in the category - I'm surprised these have been passed over for so long. Bobo. 12:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

---

I've not been the most active here recently - summertime and other tasks have taken hold. I had missed the conversation, thanks for updating. I'm happy at least that we have brightline guidelines as far as that is concerned, even if they are not universally adhered to. This clarifies things as much as need be in terms of notability for me. As i've maintained over and over again, it takes conversations to alter these guidelines and I'm happy these have taken place - however frustrated I am that it's taken this long to do so. No criticism of an individual, you understand, only the system. Bobo. 15:58, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Please forgive me

Forgive me for missing your reply on CK's page, having been unaware of the change. Bobo. 16:14, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Patrick Reed

I see that Usegolffacts has now been active on Patrick’s page. I’m not sure if you are aware or not but @usegolffacts on Twitter is Reed’s ‘burner’ account and I believe it is run by his wife Justine. Might be something to look out for. Jimmymci234 (talk) 12:04, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

WGCs on the Japan tour

I got started with adding the majors to the Japan tour's seasonal calendars. I was wondering if the WGCs fell into the same category. All of the seasonal calendars imply that the WGCs were events on tour. However, on our pages for the WGCs we do not mention the Japan Golf Tour as one of the sponsoring tours. Not sure what you make of this.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Oogglwoogly

Modified Template for Windows NT.

Hello, Wjemather. I have modified the template for Windows NT. See how it looks now. {{Windows NT}} VictorRocks (talk) 18:44, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Rory McIlroy recents changes

Hello how are you doing today ?. Can you tell me how anyone in their right minds would think those last 3 events should be added to other wins ?. The Match is not included in professional wins and the Taylor made driving relief was an exhibition also as described by Sky sports who showed it at the time. Do you agree ?. Regards 92.251.144.71 (talk) 10:41, 14 December 2021 (UTC).

As you have been told countless times before verifiability is the criteria for inclusion (or exclusion), not your opinion. You must gain consensus before making any further changes in this regard. Soon, your persistent disruption will likely result in immediate "revert and block on sight" action whenever you are identified. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:46, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Where has it been verified that these events are deemed to be professional may I ask ?. Or was it just decided by people on a talkpage ?. 92.251.144.71 (talk) 16:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

You know where to find the relevant discussions. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 17:02, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I asked you a direct question ? 92.251.144.71 (talk) 17:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Do your own homework. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 17:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)