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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Vague BRO History

Hello, Dawn. Happy New Year! I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and are doing well. I wanted to let you know about something that had not crossed my mind until a few days ago. It concerns the history of Bull Riders Only (BRO). On one of the references that I had hoped would be accepted for the BRO article on Wikipedia, it said that the organization went out of business in 1997. However, BRO has an IMDB page, and it says it lasted from 1991 to 1998. Also, I remember reading on the George Paul Memorial Bull Riding website (georgepaulmemorialbullriding.com) that the event was sanctioned by BRO for one year. It was reasonable for me to assume that year was 1998 because, the GPMBR website has a page with still pictures of each event champion since 1978. From its innagural year in 1978 to 1993, the event was unsanctioned, then it became sanctioned by the PBR in 1994. From 1994 to 1997, it was consistently won by a PBR premiere series rider, then in 1998, it was won by a rider who had never competed on the PBR premier series. Then from 1999 to 2004, the former pattern continued. The George Paul Memorial was a PBR-sanctioned event from 1994 to 2007. Then it became a CBR-sanctioned event from 2008 to 2017. It has been a PRCA-sanctioned (Xtreme Bulls) event since 2018. My point is that BRO was still around in 1998, but not for very much long. If the GPMBR was a BRO event that year, then the source saying it went out of business in 1997 is incorrect. The thing is that BRO articles are hard to come by on the internet and if the organization were to have its own Wikipedia page, it wouldn’t seem right if the information was incomplete or incorrect. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 22:37, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Uricarrillo94 Hi Uricarrillo, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! I have a list of sources for BRO I found from before. I will add them to the Bro draft so you can look them over and maybe resolve this issue before I get to doing some writing in it like I promised. I haven't forgotten. I have other commitments too. And my Watchlist has kept me busy as well as the Women in Red project. If I let the Watchlist go too far, I won't be able to catch up with it again. Anyway, I will try harder to get to this item. It won't take me long to add the sources to the talk page. I'll do it tomorrow and ping you when it's done. And I'll try to work in it soon. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:58, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the Info

Hello, Dawn. Thanks for letting me know. I understand you are busy with other commitments, so I hope you don’t wear yourself out on things. I was having second thoughts about the BRO Wikipedia article because, as I said, online articles are hard to come by. As far as I know, there aren’t any articles with hefty loads of information regarding the organization’s history and eventual demise. I don’t know if BRO had a world finals event for 1997 or 1998. With this in mind, perhaps an article for BRO wouldn’t seem ideal if the online information is incorrect or incomplete. Thanks for letting me know about the information you found online. I’ll be looking forward to seeing it myself. Like I said, please take your time and don’t feel pressured to do it quickly. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 02:12, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm happy to let you know the status; that doesn't take long. I was under the weather actually last week now that you mention it. But I'm feeling better this week. You are right that there is a balance in how much a person should spend working on anything. I don't know if I told you that through Wikipedia I have the newspapers.com and newspapers archive.com accounts for free. They cost quite a bit of money for subscription fees. I could not afford them on my own. However, editors of Wikipedia can get them if they want to go through the subscription process. I am pretty certain I will be able to find quite a few articles on BRO when I get to searching through those accounts looking through newspapers. I usually do those last. But tomorrow I will do a cursory search just to see what type of articles show up. I can only give you a description of the results at first. To use and see the articles, I have to create a clipping, from there a user without an account can then view the entire article. That's how you enable the newspaper articles to be useable in Wikipedia articles. So maybe we will have more than you might think. I was also hoping I might find more on Bodacious when I got around to it. He's the number one most viewed article on bulls in Wikipedia. Anyway, let's talk again after we see what we have on the BRO draft article talk page. dawnleelynn(talk) 04:06, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
I was feeling up to it so I added the sources. Wasn't as many as I recalled. Some have a bit, some have more. But the good news is there seem to be plenty of newspaper articles. I added one clipping so you could see. Let me know more specific dates and details you want me to search for, and I will clip some more tomorrow. Sayonara! dawnleelynn(talk) 04:59, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I saw you made a couple tiny edits to Bucking bull but still haven't responded to my edits on Draft talk:Bull Riders Only. As I mentioned in the previous comment, I have added the sources and an example newspaper clipping showing two articles days ago now. I thought you wanted to see this?? Did you perhaps not know where to go to look? Use this link Draft talk:Bull Riders Only to see the talk page for the BRO article that I created; that's where the sources are. Let me know your thoughts regarding my last two comments posted above. It's ready to go for a looksie so we can then discuss the next steps. Thanks a bunch! dawnleelynn(talk) 19:26, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello again, I see you have made a couple minor changes to the BRO draft. You haven't replied to my last message regarding the newspaper clipping just above this message though. I had the Fried Twinkies book out from the library but took it back two weeks ago. I'll be at the library tomorrow and can check it out again. But need to know what you want to do... visa vie the book and the sources I could find at newspapers.com. I am still willing to work on the "article for creation" as this particular draft is called, just like the Canadian rodeo article was. Let me know...dawnleelynn(talk) 16:55, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Latin music invitation

You are invited to join invite to join the WikiProject Latin music, a WikiProject dedicated to improving articles related to music performed in Spanish, Portuguese and languages of Ibero-America. Simply click here to accept! Or, if you're interested in reading more on Latin music, you may want to check out the Latin music portal.

I've noticed your edits to articles related to Regional Mexican music and thought you might be interested. Erick (talk) 11:57, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Sierreño-Banda issue

Hello there! The issue I had with the inclusion of the "Sierreño-Banda" genre in the Norteño article is that, while they are indeed part of the same tradition that is Regional Mexican music, I don't really find any direct relation between Norteño and Sierreño-Banda, mainly because the Sierreño-Banda genre does not use accordions at all, and the accordion in the central instrument that defines Norteño music, therefore it has no direct relation, from my point of view (unlike Sierreño proper, which does use accordions). Also, if the criteria for the inclusion of Sierreño-Banda in the article is because it's part of Regional Mexican music, then we may as well add Mariachi, Huasteco and Marimba music to the article as well. I hope you can understand my perspective, and in the meantime I hope we can continue to add information on Regional Mexican music articles. Cheers. --CHUI372 (talk) 03:42, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello there. I definitely understand your point of view. The reason I added Sierreño-Banda to the Norteño page is because some people lump Traditional Norteño, Norteño-Sax, Norteño-Banda, Traditional Sierreño and Sierreño-Banda artists all together and label them as “Norteño”. Many people do not know the difference between the different subgenres within Regional Mexican music or even the different song styles performed within the genre. For example, many people do not know that the Ranchera is a song style, and not a musical genre. The Corrido is another song style. Both of these song styles along with the Cumbia, Ballad and Bolero can be played in virtually any Regional Mexican subgenre. Some Regional Mexican artists are more famous for their rancheras, others are more famous for their corridos, others for their cumbias, etc. When it comes to Sierreño, there are some performers who incorporate an accordion into their music and others who do not, but the acoustic guitars are the most distinctive instruments in Sierreño, at least from my point of view. You are correct that Mariachi and Huasteco music are in fact Regional Mexican subgenres. When it comes to Marimba bands, I’m not sure if it can be counted as such. From what I understand, when the Marimba was brought over to the Americas many centuries ago, it started out in Guatemala. It is in fact the national instrument of said country. When it reached Mexico, its popularity has stayed primarily in the border state of Chiapas. Also, marimba bands tend to play their songs almost exclusively without lyrics. I do not consider myself an expert in this field. I just wanted to clear up some things for people who wanted their knowledge of Regional Mexican music expanded. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 07:28, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Premier Series

The terms Premier Series and elite series are used interchangeably by the PBR now. They have been using elite series for a very long time and is used all throughout the Wikipedia articles. It is a promotional term that is meant to refer to all of the elite tours together. If you mean UTB, you say UTB. Anyway, I have been hassled for a long time by an anonymous IP editor who wants to put in Premier Series and lots of promotional and sponsorship information into the tour section of the PBR article and the tour articles. WP:NOT That's why we asked for protection on the PBR article. So please don't start adding to this issue too. Thank you. dawnleelynn(talk) 06:22, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I was on my way to bed last night. But additionally the use of the term Premier Series is inconsistent. And the fans (readers) are more likely to know the actual tour names for the three elite series, the BLC, BFTS, and the UTB, spelled out of course. And each one of these has an article. There are thousands of feature and press articles that mention these tour names. If you can find them on the new beta site of course. But I will continue to look into the matter. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:02, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Did you know that the sources we should be using to edit the PBR article are not the PBR website? The article does not have to be a mirror of the website either, although it does need to be accurate. If you would see WP:RSPRIMARY, you would note that we should be basing our editing primarily on secondary sources. And we also need to keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia, so we are sometimes keeping things for historical purposes; and everything does not need to destroyed to keep it up to date for the PBR website. We are allowed to keep the former tour names and have a rider article who competed entirely on that tour keep that name and link to that tour article. And the article has many citation sources that all refer to that tour name. There is a reason for it and it all matches up. And I am not the only editor who does this. For example, the WWE has articles that refer to its old name, the WWF WWF SmackDown! Just Bring It. Search it, you'll see lots. There are arenas that have been renamed because of sponsors, and they track the names in the article for the benefit of readers who many be looking for the arena by a former name. This one has four names in the lead: Spectrum (arena). Just some food for thought. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:34, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
In fact, you might the WWE's article very enlightening as it goes into all the history of the WWF and before. In fact, it is quite extensive in its history; and there is much difference between the article and the WWE's website.dawnleelynn(talk) 03:03, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I might remind you also that at the beginning of the change to Unleash the Beast and the start of the 25th Anniversary, we discussed what to refer to as the name of the tour in a talk page with others here: Built Ford Tough Series#Page Title, including Premier Series, which was mentioned 10 times. The consensus was Unleash the Beast Series, not Premier Series. And also the move request consensus was to keep the BFTS article the same. And Wikipedia policy is that disagreements or decisions are determined by consensus WP:CON which is what we achieved. Just many reasons why I revert tour name changes is that does not follow consensus, it is not sourced, it is promotional, or sponsor laden. WP:NOTADVERTISING The only time a sponsor is included is when it is not possible to remove it from the tour name like in Built Ford Tough Series. Otherwise, it is dropped. The Velocity Tour is quite meaningful without the three sponsors it has had just since 2015. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:21, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Dawn. You are correct that “Premier” and “Elite” series are used interchangeably in the PBR website. Some article authors use “Premier”, while others use “Elite”. The authors use whichever term they are more comfortable with, but since “Elite” is much more commonly used for other things, “Premier” sounds more unique and marketable. The “Premier Series” is what the PBR has calling the most prestigious tour of the United States since 2018. The BLC, BFTS and UTB are all the same tour since 1994, only with different sponsorship titles over the years. The complete current title of the tour is the “Unleash the Beast Premier Series”, but since that is too many syllables for some, it is also called the Unleash the Beast Series, Unleash the Beast Tour, Unleash the Beast, or simply UTB. I imagine the PBR started calling it the Premier Series as a result of it changing its title sponsor a number of times over the years. It is similar to NASCAR’s Cup Series. Over the years, it has been called the Strictly Stock Division, Grand National Division, Winston Cup Series, Nextel Cup Series, Sprint Cup Series and it’s current title, the Monster Energy Cup Series.
Hi Uricarillo. First of all thanks for responding. The content you wrote later in response to two other issues that you removed was very helpful, by the way. I was going to respond, but respect you had your reasons.
I appreciate you explaining the terms used and their origins. It is helpful to know. I do think that Unleash the Beast (UTB) is what I see used the most in the press and feature releases and when I watch the program on television. Using the word Series at the end this past year is not confusing however, but it could be changed; it hasn't been used in that many articles yet. I get why the PBR wants to use Premier Series to refer to all three elite tours at times or to the just the current elite series.
With the Wikipedia articles we want to write the most simple terms for the reader which are as free of any promotional wording as possible. Of course this is because this is an encyclopedia and the reader base is not just bull riding fans, and also because its policy to avoid promotional wording or advertising. But also, including advertisers names in many articles can mean an extensive search and replace when the sponsor is replaced by PBR. If we had included Wrangler in front of National Finals Rodeo, for example, there would be so many search and replaces if they change sponsors in the future. The Velocity Tour has been BlueDEF Velocity Tour, Quick Time Pain Relief Velocity Tour, and now it is Pendleton Whiskey Velocity Tour. If this tour had a large presence in the Wikipedia articles, changing the sponsor name would have been a real pain. However, we didn't use the sponsor name per the Wikipedia policy sponsor rules. But this gives an idea of what could be. And, Velocity Tour stands on its own just fine, same as National Finals Rodeo. Those sponsor names do not add anything except promotion of themselves. p.s. The search and replace thing is no fun. No one is helping me fix the PBR broken links in all the articles that have come about because of the PBR redesigning their website. And ProBullStats too. Don't be surprised if you encounter broken PBR links in articles--PBR didn't do any redirects.
These are definitely not arbitrary reasons that have been going on. When we look at other articles, we see they are not a mirror of the entity in the real world. Many are extensive fonts of history about the entity. We can't follow the real world in the present in articles. For example, that link to the Spectrum (arena) I gave you, well the arena has been demolished. If we wanted the article to represent the present, we would have to delete the article (because the arena doesn't exist). The entire article is about the history of the arena where "Rocky" fought. We don't immediately throw away or rename content and articles because they may be removed or renamed in the real world. We must at least do an analysis first. Of course, it's not possible to keep everything. For example, trying to keep the entire history of every single change that happened to Cheyenne Frontier Days since its origin in 1897 is not possible; we just keep a record of the major events. For example, tracking Frontier Day's many concerts every year would take a second article and dedication. dawnleelynn(talk) 17:47, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

p.s. I realize that you know some of this as you'd like to have a BRO article completed, which is a defunct organization. I took the book out from the library again on the PBR that has a bit of content on it. dawnleelynn(talk) 15:12, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

New video on BRO and Bodacious

I just saw this video on YouTube BODACIOUS Rare unreleased footage "BODACIOUS Legendary bucking bull back in the days of the BRO - BULL RIDING ONLY Tour." Content provider is BullRidingNow. It was published on 3/5/2019. Have you seen it yet. There is some text in the beginning that says "Skoal Is Bodacious" which is something I always thought was an error and should be Skoal's Bodacious... But maybe it isn't a misprint. Could be some good footage in here for a BRO article. It's a long one, 8 minutes 43 seconds. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:39, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. The Bodacious video you referred to me is simply highlights of Bodacious bucking at Bull Riders Only events throughout his career. I had already seen it. Bodacious was sponsored by the Skoal tobacco company and was called Skoal’s Bodacious for a time. I imagine the bull’s owners were trying to be clever in sometimes calling him “Skoal is Bodacious” since “bodacious” is a synonym for “good looking”, so I guess they were trying to say “Skoal Tobacco is Handsome”. Bodacious was also sponsored by Dodge Trucks and was called Dodge Bodacious for a time. The channel that the video was posted from has been posting complete BRO events from over the years and claims that it will be posting every single BRO event that was televised from the very first to the very last, but it is not posting them in chronological order. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 04:23, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Removal of all-around

Hi, I have always encouraged you to add reliable sources when adding content to an article, or at least let me know about and I will try to do it. But it is also necessary sometimes to based the removal of content on reliable sources as well. The removal of the all around from the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and the Canadian Professional Rodeo Association articles was well-intentioned but misguided. These sanctioning bodies do include the all-around with the other events in their guidelines, results, and history. I encourage you to familiarize yourself with these valuable resources if you haven't already.

I will now work on your request for some sources on the PRCA article from a couple days ago. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Bull Riders Only Draft

I am doing some work on the Bull Riders Only draft. I added an infobox. I did a search on logos but there are several different ones. I have no idea. Can you post me a link to the correct one, and I will add it to Wikipedia so it can be added to the infobox? dawnleelynn(talk) 16:37, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I did some work yesterday. Real life commitments today. I'll work some tomorrow. I'll let you know when I'm done so you can do some customizing if you care to as it's really your area of expertise and your wish to see this be a real article. Just try not to delete any sources if possible because that is what it needed most the last time you tried to submit it. I'll be adding some new sources. Also, I did a search on Google for "Bull Riders Only logo images" and came up with several. Is it this one here: [1]? dawnleelynn(talk) 03:09, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, I've add some content and sources enough that it could be moved into mainstream. I've not done all the work. It could use some more polishing in the organizing and transition of the language. You can feel free to start doing some editing in there now. I may do some minor editing in there too from time to time. But it is a live article now, which means you can start making some links to it. I removed the article creation link and moved it to mainspace myself. I have the new page patroller permission myself so it's been reviewed as approved. I noticed that one of the largest provider of bull riding videos has disappeared. One of the providers of BRO videos on YouTube "bull riding now" seems to have all silent videos. I've added one video to the External links section. Perhaps you have some others that might be free of copyright issues or other issues as described you can add. I still have to look for some clippings to add from newspapers.com. An article is never "finished" though! :) I also created a talk page. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:21, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh, it's now at Bull Riders Only. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:22, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
The Funding Universe article says that television coverage by the Prime Network started in its second season, that's the only reason I changed it. Check the article for yourself. It's the Funding Universe article. Glad to see you working in it! dawnleelynn(talk) 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Be careful about adding unsourced content...just because the article is live now .... everything still needs to be sourced. Perhaps add unsourced information to the talk page first so we can find a source before it's added to the live article? dawnleelynn(talk) 22:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm not going to change anything you do. I'm just asking questions. It's up to you how to address it. You've been editing long enough that you know these things and should be able to handle them on your own. You know about sources, etc. I'll be happy to add a logo when you find it. And later (like another day) I'll add some info if I can find anything we don't have from newspapers.com which is only available from subscription. It lets me add add clippings that anyone can see. I'm going to do other stuff now; I'm not going to monitor you all the time. If you need help with a source, then you let me know. Happy editing! dawnleelynn(talk) 22:29, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. First of all, I would like to thank you for the additional work you put into the BRO page and for helping it become an official Wikipedia article. I really appreciate it. The additional details do it good. I was just fixing a few minor mistakes. Actually, BRO televised its events from the very beginning. BullRidingNow, the YouTube channel uploading complete BRO events, has posted most BRO events from the 1991 season. I am waiting to see if BRO had a televised world finals event for its final season of 1997 so I can put where it took place and also be able the add the world champions list to the Wikipedia article. As far as the BRO logo goes, I have only found two copies of it on google. One has half visible text partly blocking it, while the other is partly blurry. I would say the latter is the better version to be presented on the Wikipedia article.
Uricarillo Thanks so much, I'm glad you like having the article in mainstream. I do too. Especially since it doesn't mean you have to stop working on it. I'm was actually looking forward to seeing what else can be done to improve by it by its subject matter expect, you. Of course you will need to correct some things that I can't possibly know about a defunct organization. You were familiar with it in its hayday, and I was not. It will be fun over the days and weeks to see it develop. Re the logo, I'm good at finding images so shoot me a link, I might even be able to find a better one. It is always a great feeling to me when I move an article into mainspace. I will also check to see if there are anymore categories and wikiprojects that the article should be in now that it is in mainspace...and also other articles where it should be linked...etc. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. Here is the link to the better of the two logos of Bull Riders Only I could find. I hope you are able to apply it to the article without any copyright problems. https://trademark.trademarkia.com/bull-riders-only-74242672.html

Hi Uricarillo. I saw that logo with the watermark. It would not be easy to remove that watermark but it's such a better image it's a shame. I used the search engines that I learned about from my mentor but couldn't find another image of the logo. I also tried to find a copy of the BRO website in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (and some other sites in there that might have it), but no luck there either. Do you know what the old BRO website was? I would also check some BRO YouTube videos that might have a copy in them that could be captured. But you actually have watched them all and I haven't, so if you have seen the logo flash by in any videos and it looks like a good copy, you could let me know which one and the time it shows up at. We editors have gotten good things from videos many times, as you know we have used them for sources but sometimes they could be used for a snapshot too for an image. I'll be around off and on. If we don't find anything, I'll just go ahead and add the one you linked earlier. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:50, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Dawn. I don’t think that BRO had a website since it only existed in the 1990s, when the internet was in its infancy and very few organizations had websites. Unfortunately. I do not have access to a keyboard that allows me to save screen shots from YouTube. I hope you yourself do. A good video to get the logo from is the following:
BRO - BULL RIDERS ONLY 1991 Salt Lake City Stop #3.
The logo runs from 1:20-1:21. If you are unimpressed with the quality of the video, then I suppose the water stained logo will do.
Hey, Uricarrillo, yes it was earlier for Internet times, you are right. The PBR had a website pretty far back surprisingly called PBRNow at www.pbrnow.com and it's in the Internet Archive. Of course, it doesn't go all the way back to 1994. I'm can't recall off the top of my head how far back it does go. If I think I of it later, I'll mention it. I will attempt to get a copy of the logo from the video you mention. My background is tech writing in software development so I'm using to doing things like this. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:31, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Dawn. Actually, a better quality shot of the logo is at this video:
1992 BRO BULL RIDERS ONLY - DENVER, Co - Complete Performance.
It’s at the 0:54 time frame. I’m glad to know you are experienced in this field.
Ok, I have done it and added it to the article. It's had to be reduced to fit the rules for an image of this type. It has to be less than 300 x 300. But I actually think that shrinking it a bit made the resolution better. It was around 584 x 300 when I captured it. Let me know what you think. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

It looks pretty good, Dawn. Just out of curiosity, which video did you use? The 1991 Salt Lake City, Utah event or the 1992 Denver, Colorado event?

I used the second one you told me about, the one in Denver. If you have any suggestions to make it better let me know. If the borders aren't quite even or anything. Or, if you come across a better logo later on I can always upload an update to the same file in Wikipedia. Obviously, it isn't going to look at good as a logo file that you get directly. dawnleelynn(talk) 04:35, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know, Dawn. I think that this is the best version of the logo we’re going to find. Also, a little history: For its first two seasons, the BRO tour did not have a title sponsor. Starting in 1993, the BRO tour’s title sponsor was the Acme Boot Company, then from 1994 to 1997, its title sponsor was Wrangler Jeans. It was of importance to get a version of the logo without any sponsorship logos, per Wikipedia’s non-advertising policy. Thanks again for your help with the BRO article. I really appreciate it. I learned that BRO had its own lower-level series of events called the Semi-Pro Division that were being advertised from watching a 1997 televised event on YouTube. I am waiting to see if it started in 1996 or only existed for the league’s final season of 1997. I am also waiting to see if BRO had a world finals event for the 1997 season, so I can post the list of world champions for the page.
Well, busy in real life today. But I finally have some time to sit down and edit in Wikipedia. Thanks for the history lesson about BRO; it was very edifying. I'm glad you thought to get a version of the logo without any sponsor on it. I never heard of the Acme Boot Company before. It would be nice if you could add a list or table of the world champions to the article. It would also be nice to add some videos to the External links section as long as you are sure they have no copyright violation issues. I have to remind myself again to look for some content in newspapers.com. But that's what is nice about Wikipedia: there are no deadlines and articles are never done. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:24, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Nikkimaria is someone who has been mentoring me lately. She's been on Wikipedia a super long time. She was an admin for awhile. Now, she does Featured Article reviews, among other things. So, she is definitely someone to learn from. She sometimes edits my content in articles I create or even in other articles. I've obviously not been as diligent as I should have with some of the content I wrote in this article. She's improved the encyclopedic tone, the paraphrasing, and the organization. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I’m glad we made this article possible. I think the Acme Boot Company went out of business a long time ago. Actually, I will be adding the BRO world champions list right now and include all the ones I know of and wait and see if there was a world finals event for BRO’s final season. Nikkimaria certainly has helped with her modifications of the article. I’m glad to know that she has been an influence on your work.

By The Way, Dawn, I was hoping you could be able to add the logos for the following articles, International Gay Rodeo Association, Professional Roughstock Series and Southern Extreme Bull Riding Association. I think they are the only rodeo organizations with a Wikipedia article that do not have their logos included. If you could add the logos when you have the chance, it would be greatly appreciated.

So, I checked your articles and they need Infoboxes too. No problem! I just finished Professional Roughstock Series. Can you check the logo is the right one and also check the entries in the infobox are right and even see if you can fill in the empty one(s)? I will work on the others but it may not be until tomorrow. Also, don't worry about the bucking horse article. Atsme and I are working on it anyway. Also, can you think about how you can cite the world champions for the BRO article? It can be any mention at all that ties their name to the title. In fact, I have one for West in the American Cowboy article, for example. I'd be happy to create the citations if you can give me a link. It can also be a video like we did for Bodacious before. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:52, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Dawn. Yes, that is the correct Professional Roughstock Series logo. I am hoping that the world champions list can be cited when all the BRO world finals events have been posted to BullRidingNow on YouTube. So far the complete telecasts of the 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 world finals have been posted, but not the ones for 1996 or 1997. The 1991 finals event has been posted, but only Round 1 and not Round 2 for the complete event.

Uricarrillo, okay, yes I'll do the world champion citations when you have them all finished. I was wondering last night if the videos we used for citations in Bodacious are from the collection that was pulled from YouTube. You'd be the one to know. It was such a large collection. I think the Red Rock videos I liked so much are gone too. I have to pull these videos that have been taken down from YouTube from many articles now where I used them in External links sections, mainly in bull rider and bull articles. I think I used some in some other rodeo articles too.
Anyway, I finished the logos for all three rodeo organizations. There was no problem finding the files so they all look professional. I saw that two of the articles needed some work so I went ahead and did it. Perhaps you can look them over. I also fixed Brian Canter's article so there's no notability issue anymore and put some sources in there. There is still some content that is not sourced but it's a lot better now. I may try to add more later this weekend. If you know of any, you could link them here and I'll create citations. I wasn't always able to fill in all the fields for the infoboxs but I did what I could. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:12, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. Unfortunately, most of the Bodacious videos cited have been deleted. Those that have include the following:

  • Tribute to Bodacious
  • Tuff Hedeman rides Bodacious (95 pts)
  • Bodacious slams Jim Sharp - 92 NFR, Rd 9
  • Wreck: Bodacious Knocking Out Scott Breding - 95 NFR
  • Tuff Hedeman & Bodacious - (A Promise to a Son)
  • Bodacious vs Clint Branger - 94 PBR Finals
  • Bodacious vs Brent Thurman - 94 BRO Denver

The Tuff Hedeman vs Bodacious ride from the 1993 BRO World Finals has been posted by BullRidingNow on YouTube with the following title:

TUFF HEDEMAN Conquers BODACIOUS

I hope it can replace the deleted copy.

Unfortunately, All of the Red Rock videos that were cited are gone.

Thanks for the additional information you put into the organization articles that needed their logos. They look pretty good. I really appreciate your help, Dawn.

Hi Uricarillo. I got ahead of myself on one of the articles. I did fix somethings in the Professional Roughstock Series article. But it's still got no sources. It's better than what is was, but I will see what I can find for sources so it can be considered notable and not be vulnerable for deletion anymore. I'll check this weekend. It hasn't been inactive that long (20150) so there should still be some stuff around. Thanks for checking on Bodacious & making the list, I'll see what I can do to replace the videos with other sources. It's been awhile since I've worked on that article, there may be some new stuff out there hopefully. I also have the newspapers.com account now and that's something else I can try. I am happy to help, btw. And I didn't mean to sound rude about the bucking horse article. I don't know how much you know about bronc riding. Atsme has expansive real life experience in professional rodeo so I always defer to her. Anyway, it's nice to work on other areas of Wikipedia besides my own sometimes. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:22, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

No problem, Dawn. Thanks from letting me know. You did not sound rude at all. I’m glad to know that Atsme is a big help to you. No doubt she has lots of insight into bronc riding.

Uricarillo, thanks. So, I was pretty sure that the Professional Roughstock Series would be in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. I have located lots of copies of it. I have been looking at one of the most recent copies. It doesn't seem to have some of the things that would be useful to document like other organizations. You can look at the links across the top. But the Site Map link at the bottom gives a very large list of links that is very useful. So far I am able to find their contact information. I can't really use the Standings information or the Events as that is past. I can use the Riders section just to cite that the organization had bareback, saddle bronc, and bull riding. But I can also get that from third party sources, which is actually preferred. There are no past champions or hall of fame sections. I am not finding anything to verify that they are shutting down or shut down. Perhaps you could take a look and let me know what you might want to see in the article? In the meantime, I will work on finding the tertiary sources which must be found to establish notability. Here's the link: Professional Roughstock Series dawnleelynn(talk) 03:43, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi Uricarillo, I took a break from working on the Professional Roughstock Series article after finding only a few sources. I could find none that discussed the shutting down of the organization, except one newspaper article that won't let me read it unless I subscribe to it.
I'm working on Bodacious' article now. I'm going to have to run a utility on it that checks for broken links. It's very handy. I also need to update some of the sources like the PRCA media guide and the book source citations (to make them like the ones in the BRO article). Some of the content I took from Bodacious and used in BRO has been updated and had citations added to it there, so I want to make those same edits in Bodacious.
But I'm going to take care of the missing video issue first. I noticed there were more videos that were used as citations that are missing that weren't on your list. In fact, 4 of the 5 videos used as sources are missing. Anyway, removing the videos from the External links is just a simple delete as they are not used to cite any content; I have already done that. It's the ones that we used for citing content that I have to try to replace. If I can replace them with another source, I will. I will try to find sources for them. If I can't I will tag them with that (Citation needed) tag for now. Just updating you...happy editing! Oh yes and good news about Bodacious being the 2019 Brand of Honor bull. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:25, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. Thanks for letting me know. Bodacious’ induction into the PBR Brand of Honor has been a long time coming. He was inducted into the PRCA Hall of Fame many years ago and the Bull Riding Hall of Fame very recently.

Hi Uricarillo. I was very happy to see this induction too. Now he's in all three halls of fame, as you said. I finished working on Bodacious a little while ago. I was able to find some replacements for all but two of the videos in the article that cited content. Those two can be found by looking for citation needed tags. The replacements I found were mostly by YouTube channel "Eduardo de Paula Cavalcante" and one by "Joann Oliver". I did use a different substitute for the Hedeman victory over Bodacious than you suggested, but only because it had sound. It was also by the Eduardo channel. Perhaps we can find substitute videos in the future for the two missing ones. Everything else I changed was to add the new material about Bo, West, and Hedeman like I did to the BRO article, update the book and newspaper styles (again as per BRO), fix broken links (and there were ones because some sources stopped carrying an article, but also the PBR and ProBullStats needed fixed per the website redesigns, and lastly, I added content per the Brand of Honor (I used the citation in the article available on the PBR website). Is that all I did? lol, yes. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:13, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, Dawn. The owners of those YouTube channel channels were lucky enough to be able to record those videos and post them onto their own channels before the original channel, RodeoLibrary101, was deleted because of multiple copyright complaints. You have done a great job on the updates.

Uricarillo, that's the channel, I couldn't recall the name RodeoLibrary101. I do remember that it used to be rwillie something before that name though. So it was because of copyright complaints. They had thousands of videos. I recall when ESPN removed all of their E-60 videos. I had liked the Bushwacker video so much that I downloaded it onto my hard drive. There is a bootleg copy up there now, but the quality is not as good as the copy I downloaded. It's not illegal as long as I only use it for my own personal use. But the prospect of downloading all of the videos I like seems overwhelming so I never really got into downloading more than a few videos. But, thanks for the kind words on the updates. Let me know if you see anything that doesn't seem right though. Thanks much. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:22, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Dawn. Before it was RodeoLibrary101, it was known as rwillie22. The channel’s owner has since started a Facebook page called “All Things Roughstock”. At first, he shared some of the roughstock videos from his former YouTube channel, but has since gone on to mostly create short gifs of great rides or share rides from roughstock riders’ personal Facebook pages or fan pages. I suppose this would be to avoid getting more copyright complaints, mostly from the PRCA. I’ll be sure to let you know about any future changes. Thanks again for all your help, Dawn!

Hi, Uricarrillo. Ah, ok rwillie22. Thanks for the information on the Facebook page. I figured the complaints were coming from the PRCA. Yes, do keep me apprised, thanks. I was glad to help. I had to take a break for a bit, but I will get back to seeing if I can find more links for BRO and the PRS by using the newspapers.com site. And others. Right now, I am trying to get all of the PBR and ProBullStats links fixed that they broke as they are updating and redesigning their websites. I went through all of the bull rider articles and started on the bull articles. Some of the sites I had done earlier in bits and pieces. Some of the sites I am temporarily fixing by pointing to the old site which is hidden at cms.pbr.com. For example, they haven't moved the Heroes and Legends pages over to the new site but you can still acccess them on the hidden site. Also, pages like the 90 point club, etc. If you find broken links that I missed, let me know. It would be in history in the edit summary what I did....anyway, I am also cleaning up other broken links too since I am in there and I have a cool tool to run that shows them all to me. Talk to you later! dawnleelynn(talk) 05:22, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Uricarrillo, just a quick note to let you know I believe I finished the entire project of replacing all of the PBR and ProBullStats URLs. At least, the ones I can because there are still some sections that the PBR has not moved over yet. You'll find there are still a few things that I have left linked to the cms.pbr.com site. Anyway, I went through all of the PBR organization, champions, and all those articles. Then I went through the bull riders and bulls categories and also did all of those articles, PBR or not, I fixed all the broken links that the tool and I found. The few I could not fix I marked as dead links. Please share any links or articles you find that did not get fixed, and I will fix those. Thanks! dawnleelynn(talk) 03:53, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Please use edit summaries

Information icon Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

When editing Wikipedia, there is a field labeled "Edit summary" below the main edit box. It looks like this:

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Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. You can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting Preferences → Editing → Tick Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Thanks! MX (✉ • ✎) 16:37, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Uricarillo94, here are a couple more helpful pages on edit summaries. An instruction page: Help:Edit summary. Also, this page of canned edit summaries is a feature you can turn on which lets you pick edit summaries with a click: Wikipedia:Canned edit summaries. I need to refresh my use of edit summaries myself while I am at it. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:52, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Mexican genere changes

I’ve noticed your edits to the musical genres of some Mexican singers. I’ve also noticed you have completed these changes without adding sources to back up your changes. Is there a particular reason for these edits? I know that in the United States that all subgeneres of Mexican music (Banda, norteña, mariachi, corridos, etc.) are merged into one as the: regional Mexican genre. However in Mexico, they are recoognized as stand alone genres and not all merged into one.Fundude99talk to me 20:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello, there. Actually, there is a reason why I changed the genres of some Mexican artists. They all perform in the same genre of Regional Mexican. Artists in this genre basically sing the same types of songs: rancheras, corridos, ballads, cumbias, boleros, etc. The only thing that changes is what regions the artists originate from and the instrumental line-ups. The Mexican-based music television channels Bandamax and Video Rola are dedicated to the Regional Mexican genre and its different styles: Mariachi, Banda, Norteño, etc. Some Regional Mexican artists perform their songs in more than one style. Artists of the different subgenres typically perform in concerts together in Mexico and the United States. It’s not that different from Rock music and its numerous subgenres: Heavy Metal, Punk Rock, Grunge, etc. or Hip Hop with its different subgenres: West Coast Hip Hop, Boom Bap, Trap, etc. The styles of music from the Spanish-speaking Caribbean Islands such as Salsa, Merengue and Bachata are all part of the genre known as Tropical music. Regional Mexican is essentially the Mexican equivalent to Country music, which also has a number of different subgenres. The different styles are lumped together into one big genre for practical reasons due to the fact that they all sound very similar to one another and it makes it less complicated for consumers.

@Uricarrillo94: Okay, I understand that, but I still don’t see why the subgeneres had to be removed if that’s what they are known for singing.

Like I said, they all sing the same types of songs, only with variations with the instrumentations. Actually, I will be making slight edits to the pages to specify the exact styles that the artists perform in.

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Regional Mexican, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Sentimental (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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Hello, there. I meant to link the “Sentimental ballad” Wikipedia page. I have now fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.

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December 2019

Please stop adding unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did on Patrulla 81. This violates Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Binksternet (talk) 22:37, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I am only adding basic knowledge to a subject I am passionate about. It is irrelevant if the information is sourced or not. It is all done in good faith. Regional Mexican is my favorite genre, and it is a genre. I grew up listening to it my entire life, and am familiar with the culture.
Pop, Rock, Hip-Hop, Jazz, Country, etc. are all umbrella terms that encompass different musical genres that share at least one thing in common. It is the same with Regional Mexican music. The different styles sound radically different from each other in terms of instrumentation, but they share similar backgrounds, the artists sing the same types of songs, and they wear the same types of clothing-I.e. western wear. It’s common sense. Bands and solo artists of the different regional Mexican genres regularly perform together in concerts in Mexico and the United States. Some solo artists even sing their songs in several different regional Mexican styles.
Regional Mexican music, like all genres, is always evolving and new & accurate information must be added when necessary, even if not sourced. Regional Mexican is not taken as seriously as Latin pop, Latin rock, Tropical music, or Latin urban. Those who previously added information to the different pages of the different regional Mexican genres are either limited in their knowledge of the subject, grew up in an era where a particular genre was prevalent over the rest, or are biased for or against certain genres. It is important to add proper, unbiased information on the subject. It is also important to add examples of artists of the different styles. Without examples, people will not know who to look up and listen to out of curiosity or be able to properly pinpoint the artists to their specific genres.
Again, all the changes were done in good faith by someone with a considerable amount of knowledge of their favorite music genre and is always keeping up to date with it. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 23:35, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia has a hard policy called WP:No original research. It says that you cannot tell the reader about things you have discovered if they have not been previously published by reliable authors. This includes your musical analysis and your descriptions of rodeo practices. You have been violating this policy for five years now, using a combination of your registered user name and the IP Special:Contributions/108.200.5.217 and also the IP range Special:Contributions/2600:1700:F0A0:4B10:0:0:0:0/64. Earlier, you were using the IP range Special:Contributions/2602:306:CC80:5D90:0:0:0:0/64. There are far too many problems with your contributions, problems with capitalization and italicization, but the main problem is that you have been "shooting from the hip" – writing about things as you see them. Wikipedia requires that you first read about a topic and then cite your reading materials to summarize the topic. You have been a good-faith editor but you have been violating policy the whole time, so now you are at a crossroad where you must decide which way to go. Binksternet (talk) 01:08, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm serious about this. You need to decide whether you will continue to violate policy or to start citing published sources. Binksternet (talk) 06:39, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

I am not going to argue with you. I did what I did because, it was the right thing to do. Wikipedia claims to be a place for accurate information, so that is what I added. You say I write about things as I see them. Well to be fair, that’s how all research is done. One writes about a topic from their particular point of view, and others follow their lead. There’s hardly any information to cite on the subject at hand because, like I said, it’s a musical genre that isn’t taken as seriously as others. I could try to explain more, but you wouldn’t understand because, it’s a culture you’re unfamiliar with. Good day.

I understand the difference between writing for Wikipedia and writing a book, an article in a magazine or newspaper, or a scholarly paper published in a journal. Writing for Wikipedia cannot contain original research whereas writing for the others is greatly improved with original research. Original research is expected and encouraged for authors creating material in those other writing styles, but Wikipedia cannot have it. If you continue as before your behavior will certainly be examined by Wikipedia administrators who will very likely block you. Binksternet (talk) 16:38, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Dawn. I’m sorry it took me a while to respond. Thank You Very Much! I really appreciate it! I wish the same to you as well! Uricarrillo94 (talk) 22:02, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

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